Comments on: Neat trick for avoiding facial recognition when being photographed http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 10:32:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Donald Petersen http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1421209 Donald Petersen Fri, 11 May 2012 04:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1421209 <blockquote> A better solution would be to just look down when you are near a camera.  Because most cameras are mounted high, they won't be able to see much of your face at all.</blockquote> Revolution of the Shoegazers!

A better solution would be to just look down when you are near a camera.  Because most cameras are mounted high, they won’t be able to see much of your face at all.

Revolution of the Shoegazers!

]]> By: Martijn Vos http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1420176 Martijn Vos Thu, 10 May 2012 12:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1420176 Much cooler solution. Also because we finally get to look like we're living in the future. Much cooler solution. Also because we finally get to look like we’re living in the future.

]]> By: serpent http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1420174 serpent Thu, 10 May 2012 12:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1420174  That helps you against your bastard friend with a camera and a tag-ready mouse exactly how?  That helps you against your bastard friend with a camera and a tag-ready mouse exactly how?

]]> By: John Ridley http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1420172 John Ridley Thu, 10 May 2012 12:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1420172 I doubt this works unless the algorithms are horrible or haven't been trained much. I use Google's Picasa and the recognition is really quite good.  It sometimes correctly identifies people even if their entire face is not in the shot.  It's nowhere near 100% but it helps a lot.  Without it I'd never have gotten the hundreds of thousands of faces in my tens of thousands of personal photos indexed. I doubt this works unless the algorithms are horrible or haven’t been trained much.

I use Google’s Picasa and the recognition is really quite good.  It sometimes correctly identifies people even if their entire face is not in the shot.  It’s nowhere near 100% but it helps a lot.  Without it I’d never have gotten the hundreds of thousands of faces in my tens of thousands of personal photos indexed.

]]> By: Alan Goulding http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1420063 Alan Goulding Thu, 10 May 2012 09:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1420063 Pfft. The real secret's in Chris Morris' film Four Lions where the would-be jihadi shakes his head continually so it comes out "blurry" on the CCTV picture.  Pfft. The real secret’s in Chris Morris’ film Four Lions where the would-be jihadi shakes his head continually so it comes out “blurry” on the CCTV picture. 

]]> By: John Romeo Alpha http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419884 John Romeo Alpha Thu, 10 May 2012 04:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419884 Tilt of the mentioned 15 degrees is not even a problem for my Panasonic DMC-ZS20 point and shoot camera, which recognizes faces of people stored ahead of time and puts their names on the screen. I tried different tilt angles, and recognition failed closer to 30 degrees of tilt. Interestingly, adding images tilted beyond 30 degrees to the comparison registry did not help, indicating that the basic idea of out-of-level beyond a certain roll rotation causing issues with recognition is sound, even if the mentioned angle was too small. But if my little camera has enough processing power to handle close to 30 degrees, as @AlexKilpatrick mentioned, I would imagine law enforcement has enough processing power to handle arbitrarily high roll angles, in case perps start strolling around with tilted noggins in great numbers. Tilt of the mentioned 15 degrees is not even a problem for my Panasonic DMC-ZS20 point and shoot camera, which recognizes faces of people stored ahead of time and puts their names on the screen. I tried different tilt angles, and recognition failed closer to 30 degrees of tilt. Interestingly, adding images tilted beyond 30 degrees to the comparison registry did not help, indicating that the basic idea of out-of-level beyond a certain roll rotation causing issues with recognition is sound, even if the mentioned angle was too small. But if my little camera has enough processing power to handle close to 30 degrees, as @AlexKilpatrick mentioned, I would imagine law enforcement has enough processing power to handle arbitrarily high roll angles, in case perps start strolling around with tilted noggins in great numbers.

]]> By: Culturedropout http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419837 Culturedropout Thu, 10 May 2012 02:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419837  They had this figured out a _long_ time ago...  They had this figured out a _long_ time ago…

]]> By: AlexKilpatrick http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419818 AlexKilpatrick Thu, 10 May 2012 02:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419818 I work in face recognition, and this is pretty ridiculous.   They are talking about "roll" rotation, which is the easiest to compensate for because it is a simple image rotation.  All the information is there, it is just rotated.   The default for most algorithms is +/- 15 degrees, but that isn't  a technical limitation, it is just a convenience for processing speed.  Any algorithm can be configured to check +/- 180 degrees quite easily.  Algorithms have a much harder time on "pitch" and "yaw" because now you are hiding facial missing information.  A better solution would be to just look down when you are near a camera.  Because most cameras are mounted high, they won't be able to see much of your face at all. CVDazzle has gotten a lot of press, but it hasn't been significant to me in my experiments.  See:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/09/27/how-to-hide-your-face-from-big-brother-try-sunglasses/ A mask, of course, will work quite well.  Another simple solution is dark sunglasses. I work in face recognition, and this is pretty ridiculous.   They are talking about “roll” rotation, which is the easiest to compensate for because it is a simple image rotation.  All the information is there, it is just rotated.   The default for most algorithms is +/- 15 degrees, but that isn’t  a technical limitation, it is just a convenience for processing speed.  Any algorithm can be configured to check +/- 180 degrees quite easily.  Algorithms have a much harder time on “pitch” and “yaw” because now you are hiding facial missing information.  A better solution would be to just look down when you are near a camera.  Because most cameras are mounted high, they won’t be able to see much of your face at all.

CVDazzle has gotten a lot of press, but it hasn’t been significant to me in my experiments.  See:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/09/27/how-to-hide-your-face-from-big-brother-try-sunglasses/

A mask, of course, will work quite well.  Another simple solution is dark sunglasses.

]]> By: Felicitas http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419648 Felicitas Wed, 09 May 2012 23:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419648 I don't like the general idea of showing up anywhere, picturewise, and not being able to control it. Apart from that, the video was shot ten minutes away from my home.. ^^ my home area looks weird through a lens. I don’t like the general idea of showing up anywhere, picturewise, and not being able to control it. Apart from that, the video was shot ten minutes away from my home.. ^^ my home area looks weird through a lens.

]]> By: jwkrk http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419624 jwkrk Wed, 09 May 2012 23:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419624 I ask people to not tag me in photos.  Also, if I do any tagging, I do it incorrectly.  Degrade the signal to noise... I ask people to not tag me in photos.  Also, if I do any tagging, I do it incorrectly.  Degrade the signal to noise…

]]> By: imaguid http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419622 imaguid Wed, 09 May 2012 23:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419622 perhaps not their most distinguishing characteristic in terms of telling one person from another, but in terms of telling a face from a door or potted plant, eyes are very important. perhaps not their most distinguishing characteristic in terms of telling one person from another, but in terms of telling a face from a door or potted plant, eyes are very important.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419605 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 09 May 2012 22:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419605 New to European cinema, eh? New to European cinema, eh?

]]> By: Donald Petersen http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419513 Donald Petersen Wed, 09 May 2012 21:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419513 I dunno.  There are some people whose eyes aren't <a href="http://viliflik.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/chins_couldkill.jpg" rel="nofollow">their most distinguishing characteristic</a>. I dunno.  There are some people whose eyes aren’t their most distinguishing characteristic.

]]> By: imaguid http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419490 imaguid Wed, 09 May 2012 21:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419490 so the reason this works is because the computers don't know how to find faces where the rotation is beyond a certain arbitrarily defined point (it's more computationally expensive and of relatively little value for the algorithm to be able to locate faces under all possible rotations). that said, it's certainly possible to widen the rotational range that the algorithms can deal with so i wouldn't rely on it. frankly, avoiding facial recognition is not hard or complex and it doesn't even have to draw attention. they're right that masks obscure the face, but you don't have to obscure the entire face, only an important part. the eyes happen to be an important part, and sunglasses can obscure those just fine. so the reason this works is because the computers don’t know how to find faces where the rotation is beyond a certain arbitrarily defined point (it’s more computationally expensive and of relatively little value for the algorithm to be able to locate faces under all possible rotations).

that said, it’s certainly possible to widen the rotational range that the algorithms can deal with so i wouldn’t rely on it.

frankly, avoiding facial recognition is not hard or complex and it doesn’t even have to draw attention. they’re right that masks obscure the face, but you don’t have to obscure the entire face, only an important part. the eyes happen to be an important part, and sunglasses can obscure those just fine.

]]> By: Wild Rumpus http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419489 Wild Rumpus Wed, 09 May 2012 21:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419489 That out of sync business ruined any message they may have had for me... That out of sync business ruined any message they may have had for me…

]]> By: Matthew Ramage http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419476 Matthew Ramage Wed, 09 May 2012 20:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419476 Old joke from the coldwar (un-known if true or not) Us spends 20 billion$ to build stealth fighter that has radar cross section of seagull Russia spends 200$ upgrading software to spot seagulls moving at 200mph Adaption, it's not just a movie. Spoof the software this way, and you'll soon find it can counter that. You'll be doing dumb stuff thinking your safe, and are far from it. Old joke from the coldwar (un-known if true or not)

Us spends 20 billion$ to build stealth fighter that has radar cross section of seagull
Russia spends 200$ upgrading software to spot seagulls moving at 200mph

Adaption, it’s not just a movie.

Spoof the software this way, and you’ll soon find it can counter that.
You’ll be doing dumb stuff thinking your safe, and are far from it.

]]> By: robdobbs http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419448 robdobbs Wed, 09 May 2012 20:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419448 Sound to me like they're just trying to make people walk around looking stupid.  Unlike these guys: http://cvdazzle.com/ http://cvdazzle.com/assets/images/test_sm/b.jpg Sound to me like they’re just trying to make people walk around looking stupid. 
Unlike these guys: http://cvdazzle.com/

http://cvdazzle.com/assets/images/test_sm/b.jpg

]]> By: Dr_Wadd http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419447 Dr_Wadd Wed, 09 May 2012 20:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419447 At least as far as the 3DS is concerned, when it is trying to detect faces I apparently have no face. I'm assuming that the combination of my facial hair and glasses is enough to throw its face detection algorithm off. I don't have enough data to state whether that applies for other algorithms, but at least I can take some comfort in knowing that some systems won't recognise my face simply because they don't see me as having one. At least as far as the 3DS is concerned, when it is trying to detect faces I apparently have no face. I’m assuming that the combination of my facial hair and glasses is enough to throw its face detection algorithm off. I don’t have enough data to state whether that applies for other algorithms, but at least I can take some comfort in knowing that some systems won’t recognise my face simply because they don’t see me as having one.

]]> By: LennStar http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419419 LennStar Wed, 09 May 2012 20:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419419 Which will only make YOU not know who is identified.  Every other picture with is still identified and of course, clicking out the "show it on this pic" option doesn't mean that Facebook doesn't identify you. They yust don't show it to you. Which will only make YOU not know who is identified.  Every other picture with is still identified and of course, clicking out the “show it on this pic” option doesn’t mean that Facebook doesn’t identify you. They yust don’t show it to you.

]]> By: LennStar http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419420 LennStar Wed, 09 May 2012 20:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419420 Which will only make YOU not know who is identified.  Every other picture with is still identified and of course, clicking out the "show it on this pic" option doesn't mean that Facebook doesn't identify you. They yust don't show it to you. Which will only make YOU not know who is identified.  Every other picture with is still identified and of course, clicking out the “show it on this pic” option doesn’t mean that Facebook doesn’t identify you. They yust don’t show it to you.

]]> By: Manny http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419413 Manny Wed, 09 May 2012 20:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419413 Facebook doesn't protect you well against your idiot friends posting pictures of you. Furthermore, Facebook doesn't control all uses of the picture, even if it was posted there originally. Facebook doesn’t protect you well against your idiot friends posting pictures of you. Furthermore, Facebook doesn’t control all uses of the picture, even if it was posted there originally.

]]> By: Manny http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419414 Manny Wed, 09 May 2012 20:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419414 Facebook doesn't protect you well against your idiot friends posting pictures of you. Furthermore, Facebook doesn't control all uses of the picture, even if it was posted there originally. Facebook doesn’t protect you well against your idiot friends posting pictures of you. Furthermore, Facebook doesn’t control all uses of the picture, even if it was posted there originally.

]]> By: Manny http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419415 Manny Wed, 09 May 2012 20:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419415 Facebook doesn't protect you well against your idiot friends posting pictures of you. Furthermore, Facebook doesn't control all uses of the picture, even if it was posted there originally. Facebook doesn’t protect you well against your idiot friends posting pictures of you. Furthermore, Facebook doesn’t control all uses of the picture, even if it was posted there originally.

]]> By: maxwhirl http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419388 maxwhirl Wed, 09 May 2012 19:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419388 An out-of-sync, poorly shot, overly-ambitously edited, 2 and a half minute video with about 5 seconds of (questionably) useful information. Gee thanks. An out-of-sync, poorly shot, overly-ambitously edited, 2 and a half minute video with about 5 seconds of (questionably) useful information. Gee thanks.

]]> By: vrplumber http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419362 vrplumber Wed, 09 May 2012 19:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419362 Or you can not use Facebook :) Or you can not use Facebook :)

]]> By: Frederik http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419359 Frederik Wed, 09 May 2012 19:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419359 Or you can simply turn off facial recognition in your facebook privacy settings. Or you can simply turn off facial recognition in your facebook privacy settings.

]]> By: nrp http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419327 nrp Wed, 09 May 2012 19:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419327  Pittsburgh Pattern Recognition (recently acquired by Google) had algorithms that worked pretty well against tilt.  Pittsburgh Pattern Recognition (recently acquired by Google) had algorithms that worked pretty well against tilt.

]]> By: memoid http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419313 memoid Wed, 09 May 2012 18:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419313  Nexus 6, I suspect.  Nexus 6, I suspect.

]]> By: memoid http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419314 memoid Wed, 09 May 2012 18:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419314  Nexus 6, I suspect.  Nexus 6, I suspect.

]]> By: danegeld http://boingboing.net/2012/05/09/neat-trick-for-avoiding-facial.html#comment-1419295 danegeld Wed, 09 May 2012 18:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=159690#comment-1419295 Wait! what is going ON in that video? I see people with faces... and then their heads just disappear, and the space above their necks is replaced with an amorphous unrecognisable 'blob'. BUT I CAN STILL HEAR THEM TALKING! Then they say they're tilting their heads back, and suddenly I can see them again. Give it to me straight-up Dr. Sacks ... does that mean ... does that mean I'm a robot?? Wait! what is going ON in that video? I see people with faces… and then their heads just disappear, and the space above their necks is replaced with an amorphous unrecognisable ‘blob’. BUT I CAN STILL HEAR THEM TALKING! Then they say they’re tilting their heads back, and suddenly I can see them again. Give it to me straight-up Dr. Sacks … does that mean … does that mean I’m a robot??

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