Comments on: Four people dead on Mt. Everest, one still missing http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 19 May 2013 04:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: BarBarSeven http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1434689 BarBarSeven Sat, 26 May 2012 17:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1434689 This dog ran 20 days & climbed 12 mountains in the process and he get’s more respect from me than some of these Everest climbers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18218878 This dog ran 20 days & climbed 12 mountains in the process and he get’s more respect from me than some of these Everest climbers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18218878

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1431224 SomeGuyNamedMark Wed, 23 May 2012 06:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1431224  Go read "Touching the Void" for some serious mountain misery.  The movie adaptation was good but can't do it justice.  Go read “Touching the Void” for some serious mountain misery.  The movie adaptation was good but can’t do it justice.

]]> By: Maggie Koerth-Baker http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430769 Maggie Koerth-Baker Tue, 22 May 2012 22:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430769 Replying to Antinous: In the article, they note that one of the people climbing Everest last weekend (who survived, even though she was rumored to be dead early on) was a 16-year-old, female Sherpa.  Replying to Antinous: In the article, they note that one of the people climbing Everest last weekend (who survived, even though she was rumored to be dead early on) was a 16-year-old, female Sherpa. 

]]> By: Maggie Koerth-Baker http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430771 Maggie Koerth-Baker Tue, 22 May 2012 22:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430771 Yup. And yup.  Yup. And yup. 

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430578 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 22 May 2012 20:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430578 From my own experience at Everest (not climbing, just enjoying the scenery), Sherpas really enjoy trekking.  And women go on trek as well as men.  They told me that women with children will sign on for expeditions once the child reaches six months of age.  Also, serious pranksters.  It's the only time I've ever seen anyone give a sleeping person a hotfoot. From my own experience at Everest (not climbing, just enjoying the scenery), Sherpas really enjoy trekking.  And women go on trek as well as men.  They told me that women with children will sign on for expeditions once the child reaches six months of age.  Also, serious pranksters.  It’s the only time I’ve ever seen anyone give a sleeping person a hotfoot.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430564 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 22 May 2012 20:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430564 The secret is to go in bad weather. The secret is to go in bad weather.

]]> By: fieldsls http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430477 fieldsls Tue, 22 May 2012 19:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430477 Why is the picture tilted about 45 degrees?  Everyone is walking leaning backwards and those tents in the lower right hand corner would never work on slope that steep. Why is the picture tilted about 45 degrees?  Everyone is walking leaning backwards and those tents in the lower right hand corner would never work on slope that steep.

]]> By: Bevatron Repairman http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430263 Bevatron Repairman Tue, 22 May 2012 17:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430263 There was a great National Geographic series -- a couple of seasons worth -- that followed a guided expedition like these through the whole process.  And those guys seemed to have nothing but admiration for the Sherpas. Might have been different 40 or 50 years ago.  Although my guess is that this was more media filtering than any sense from the mountaneers that sherpas were mere servants.   There was a great National Geographic series — a couple of seasons worth — that followed a guided expedition like these through the whole process.  And those guys seemed to have nothing but admiration for the Sherpas.

Might have been different 40 or 50 years ago.  Although my guess is that this was more media filtering than any sense from the mountaneers that sherpas were mere servants.  

]]> By: timquinn http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430133 timquinn Tue, 22 May 2012 16:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430133 what a wank fest what a wank fest

]]> By: LaurieMann http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430134 LaurieMann Tue, 22 May 2012 16:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430134 Speaking as an endomorph who likes to walk... Spent nearly two weeks in Colorado (5K'-14K') a few years ago.  Had no trouble up until 10K', and couldn't climb up hundreds to stairs to an 11K' overlook at that point.  Also visited Pike's Peak (14K') and had no trouble walking, but probably could't have easily climbed stairs there either.  Was happy to find out that most of Maachu Pichu is between 9K' & 10K' (though you ride in busses over higher areas).  Still will probably never be able to afford that, but at least I know I'd be able to handle it physically, at least for a few more years. Speaking as an endomorph who likes to walk…

Spent nearly two weeks in Colorado (5K’-14K’) a few years ago.  Had no trouble up until 10K’, and couldn’t climb up hundreds to stairs to an 11K’ overlook at that point.  Also visited Pike’s Peak (14K’) and had no trouble walking, but probably could’t have easily climbed stairs there either.  Was happy to find out that most of Maachu Pichu is between 9K’ & 10K’ (though you ride in busses over higher areas).  Still will probably never be able to afford that, but at least I know I’d be able to handle it physically, at least for a few more years.

]]> By: Rich Keller http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430056 Rich Keller Tue, 22 May 2012 16:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430056 The "50 Ways to Die in a Cave" post from the  last year or so still haunts me. The “50 Ways to Die in a Cave” post from the  last year or so still haunts me.

]]> By: stegodon http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430047 stegodon Tue, 22 May 2012 16:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430047 Exactly.  Exactly. 

]]> By: stegodon http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430034 stegodon Tue, 22 May 2012 16:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430034 Machu Picchu is beautiful, without a doubt, and worth visiting. The problem is that "adventure tourists" don't realize that money cannot buy them aptitude or fitness. I have seen some gasping endomorphs waddle up the Inca trail. They made it. These same folks, possessed of too much fliff and hubris and too little self-knowledge would be, at best, a liability on Everest. Summiting Everest is not just something that you decide to do, like taking a trip to Dollywood. I live at high altitude, summit multiple fourteeners every season and I would have to do some serious training before heading to Everest. The idea (and I'm not insinuating that this is your idea) that you can just plunk down a credit card and some little brown people will whisk you away to the summit for your new Facebook profile pic is ignorant to the point of, obviously, fatality.  Machu Picchu is beautiful, without a doubt, and worth visiting. The problem is that “adventure tourists” don’t realize that money cannot buy them aptitude or fitness. I have seen some gasping endomorphs waddle up the Inca trail. They made it. These same folks, possessed of too much fliff and hubris and too little self-knowledge would be, at best, a liability on Everest. Summiting Everest is not just something that you decide to do, like taking a trip to Dollywood. I live at high altitude, summit multiple fourteeners every season and I would have to do some serious training before heading to Everest. The idea (and I’m not insinuating that this is your idea) that you can just plunk down a credit card and some little brown people will whisk you away to the summit for your new Facebook profile pic is ignorant to the point of, obviously, fatality. 

]]> By: IRMO http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1430000 IRMO Tue, 22 May 2012 16:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1430000 Well, at least one of the climbers knew what was more important than reaching the summit: http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-gives-up-on-everest-summit-to-help-turkish-climber/?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150934386109842_22493134_10150935100994842#f17bf0816c Well, at least one of the climbers knew what was more important than reaching the summit:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-gives-up-on-everest-summit-to-help-turkish-climber/?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150934386109842_22493134_10150935100994842#f17bf0816c

]]> By: joeposts http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429975 joeposts Tue, 22 May 2012 15:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429975 Yeah! Sign me up, once I get rich enough to start craving discomfort. At least in lava lakes, dead bodies don't pile up. Yeah! Sign me up, once I get rich enough to start craving discomfort. At least in lava lakes, dead bodies don’t pile up.

]]> By: rsk http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429954 rsk Tue, 22 May 2012 15:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429954 The commercialization of Everest means that people who (a) lack significant, serious mountaineering experience (b) lack adequate strength and conditioning (c) lack practiced skillsets (d) lack seasoned judgment can pony up the cash and join a summit attempt.  This is why the death rate is approximately 1 in 10 -- that is, one person dies for every ten successful attempts to summit and return. It certainly doesn't seem that many of these people grasp the brutal reality of it -- along the lines of the classic "The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin.   If ANYTHING goes wrong in the death zone, then there is a very high probability you won't be able to make it back.   And if you can't make it back, nobody will be able to help you.  If your companions try: they will die with you.  If other summit teams try: they will die with you.  If rescuers try: they will die with you.    The only sensible course of action for all these people is to leave you.  (Not that they always do the sensible thing, of course, and when they don't, they usually die.) "Into Thin Air" is now 15 years old and yet the lesson still hasn't been learned. The commercialization of Everest means that people who (a) lack significant, serious mountaineering experience (b) lack adequate strength and conditioning (c) lack practiced skillsets (d) lack seasoned judgment can pony up the cash and join a summit attempt.  This is why the death rate is approximately 1 in 10 — that is, one person dies for every ten successful attempts to summit and return.

It certainly doesn’t seem that many of these people grasp the brutal reality of it — along the lines of the classic “The Cold Equations” by Tom Godwin.   If ANYTHING goes wrong in the death zone, then there is a very high probability you won’t be able to make it back.   And if you can’t make it back, nobody will be able to help you.  If your companions try: they will die with you.  If other summit teams try: they will die with you.  If rescuers try: they will die with you.    The only sensible course of action for all these people is to leave you.  (Not that they always do the sensible thing, of course, and when they don’t, they usually die.)

“Into Thin Air” is now 15 years old and yet the lesson still hasn’t been learned.

]]> By: ninjapornstar http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429951 ninjapornstar Tue, 22 May 2012 15:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429951 Without getting too detailed about climbing associations in general, with regards to Everest the answer to your question is "Yes." The Nepalese and Chinese government are responsible for selling permits to climb Everest. So a permitting system exists. Whether those responsible for the permitting system make the right decisions is another matter. Without getting too detailed about climbing associations in general, with regards to Everest the answer to your question is “Yes.”

The Nepalese and Chinese government are responsible for selling permits to climb Everest. So a permitting system exists. Whether those responsible for the permitting system make the right decisions is another matter.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429935 SomeGuyNamedMark Tue, 22 May 2012 15:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429935  http://www.amazon.com/Tenzing-Norgay-Sherpas-Everest-Tashi/dp/0071381805 BTW, people seem to think Sherpa is a word for a glorified porter, they are actually an ethnic group in Nepal.  They just happen to live in the area and suited to high altitudes.  http://www.amazon.com/Tenzing-Norgay-Sherpas-Everest-Tashi/dp/0071381805

BTW, people seem to think Sherpa is a word for a glorified porter, they are actually an ethnic group in Nepal.  They just happen to live in the area and suited to high altitudes.

]]> By: Teller http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429934 Teller Tue, 22 May 2012 15:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429934 If you mean Blind Descent, that was a frightening read. If you mean Blind Descent, that was a frightening read.

]]> By: NelC http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429931 NelC Tue, 22 May 2012 15:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429931 Are there mountain climber associations that rate mountains and climbers, and organise climbs? Should there be one for Everest? Say with a limited number of licences per year, and the power to control the traffic so as not to overstrain local resources, such as the supply of experienced Sherpas? Are there mountain climber associations that rate mountains and climbers, and organise climbs? Should there be one for Everest? Say with a limited number of licences per year, and the power to control the traffic so as not to overstrain local resources, such as the supply of experienced Sherpas?

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429932 SomeGuyNamedMark Tue, 22 May 2012 15:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429932 Wait until they put ladders up the faces (via ferratas) so they can now have 4 routes to the top. Wait until they put ladders up the faces (via ferratas) so they can now have 4 routes to the top.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429929 SomeGuyNamedMark Tue, 22 May 2012 15:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429929 Most of the bodies will eventually end up in the glaciers and get ground up until they come out at the terminal moraine.  I've heard of pieces of bone and bits of cloth already being found there from the earliest deaths. Most of the bodies will eventually end up in the glaciers and get ground up until they come out at the terminal moraine.  I’ve heard of pieces of bone and bits of cloth already being found there from the earliest deaths.

]]> By: Teller http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429930 Teller Tue, 22 May 2012 15:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429930 Recalls photo of Chilkoot Pass in late 1800s. Recalls photo of Chilkoot Pass in late 1800s.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429924 SomeGuyNamedMark Tue, 22 May 2012 15:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429924 The Sherpas get lots of respect, at least they do now.  The best ones command a high fee and some travel the world like their clients.  There is also a stiff competition between them to get the reputation needed to get hired for the senior guiding jobs.  Some will summit Everest multiple days in a row. The Sherpas get lots of respect, at least they do now.  The best ones command a high fee and some travel the world like their clients.  There is also a stiff competition between them to get the reputation needed to get hired for the senior guiding jobs.  Some will summit Everest multiple days in a row.

]]> By: NelC http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429920 NelC Tue, 22 May 2012 15:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429920 Can you imagine future archeologists speculating on why there are so many bodies on this one mountain? Clearly a place of veneration. Can you imagine future archeologists speculating on why there are so many bodies on this one mountain? Clearly a place of veneration.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429921 SomeGuyNamedMark Tue, 22 May 2012 15:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429921 They don't even shove them off the mountain, they push them to the side of the route.  There are plenty of bodies, some more covered than others, along the south route. They don’t even shove them off the mountain, they push them to the side of the route.  There are plenty of bodies, some more covered than others, along the south route.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429917 SomeGuyNamedMark Tue, 22 May 2012 15:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429917 Between the cost and now this conga line to the top it has become a rich person's cattle drive.  Even with plenty of preparation and acclimatizing how your body performs at high altitude is still a bit of a gamble.  Cramming so many climbers onto the same fixed ropes means you'll be going even slower than normal.  I can't see this could possibly be enjoyable or even satisfying.  It is Nepal's fault for using Everest as a cash cow to be milked dry. I agree with your comment on Chimborazo.  There is also Aconcagua.  The Andes are also a hell of a lot cheaper than the Himalayas, that means you can do more trips. Between the cost and now this conga line to the top it has become a rich person’s cattle drive.  Even with plenty of preparation and acclimatizing how your body performs at high altitude is still a bit of a gamble.  Cramming so many climbers onto the same fixed ropes means you’ll be going even slower than normal.  I can’t see this could possibly be enjoyable or even satisfying.  It is Nepal’s fault for using Everest as a cash cow to be milked dry.

I agree with your comment on Chimborazo.  There is also Aconcagua.  The Andes are also a hell of a lot cheaper than the Himalayas, that means you can do more trips.

]]> By: ninjapornstar http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429918 ninjapornstar Tue, 22 May 2012 15:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429918 "One Mountain, Thousand Summits" by Freddie Wilkinson. It's not written from a first-person Sherpa's perspective, per se. And it's not about Everest. Rather, it's about the 2008 K2 disaster, the role of Sherpas and HAPs (High Altitude Porters). For the book, Wilkinson interviewed many of the non-westerners involved in the climb, traces the development of the profession of high-altitude guiding, and explains and critiques the world of high-altitude commercial guiding. Freddie also just wrote an op-ed in the NYTimes discussing Everest and a commercial guide's decision to cancel this season's efforts due to objective hazard. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/opinion/dont-climb-every-mountain.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=everest&st=Search “One Mountain, Thousand Summits” by Freddie Wilkinson.

It’s not written from a first-person Sherpa’s perspective, per se. And it’s not about Everest.

Rather, it’s about the 2008 K2 disaster, the role of Sherpas and HAPs (High Altitude Porters). For the book, Wilkinson interviewed many of the non-westerners involved in the climb, traces the development of the profession of high-altitude guiding, and explains and critiques the world of high-altitude commercial guiding.

Freddie also just wrote an op-ed in the NYTimes discussing Everest and a commercial guide’s decision to cancel this season’s efforts due to objective hazard.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/opinion/dont-climb-every-mountain.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=everest&st=Search

]]> By: AviSolomon http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429901 AviSolomon Tue, 22 May 2012 14:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429901 Life and Death on Mt. Everest: Sherpas and Himalayan Mountaineering by Sherry Ortner http://www.amazon.com/Life-Death-Mt-Everest-Mountaineering/dp/0691074488 Life and Death on Mt. Everest: Sherpas and Himalayan Mountaineering by Sherry Ortner
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Death-Mt-Everest-Mountaineering/dp/0691074488

]]> By: BonzoDog1 http://boingboing.net/2012/05/22/four-people-dead-on-mt-everes.html#comment-1429898 BonzoDog1 Tue, 22 May 2012 14:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=162304#comment-1429898 Money can always be a limiting factor. I've never seen a "No Vacancy" sign on the International Space Station. That image reminded me of the 1898 shot of Chilkoot Trail during the Klondike gold rush. Money can always be a limiting factor. I’ve never seen a “No Vacancy” sign on the International Space Station.
That image reminded me of the 1898 shot of Chilkoot Trail during the Klondike gold rush.

]]>