Lady Gaga, Queen of Demon

Muslim women hold posters during a protest objecting to U.S. singer Lady Gaga's Indonesian concert, at Jakarta's business district May 24, 2012. Pop star Lady Gaga has been refused a permit to perform in the Indonesian capital on June 3 over security concerns, police said last week. Three Islamic groups have expressed their opposition to the concert, demanding it be stopped, national police spokesman Saud Usman Nasution said by telephone. More on the controversy: WSJ, AFP, Washington Post, NYT, AP, Jakarta Post. (REUTERS/Supri)

• [Jesse Markham]

  We’re not a bunch of fascist tight-assed fundamentalists. Nooooo. #preachingtothechoir #lesigh

• [jennix]

  I never liked Lady GaGa before just now.

• [ben reytblat]

  Love the black Al Qaeda flag in the lower left hand corner of the “KAFIR !!!” (Infidel) poster. Pretty much says it all.

  • [fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

    I’m actually a trifle surprised that “KAFIR” would be the word of choice(though I admit that I’m not totally down in Jihad circles, so maybe it’s just my ignorance). It was my impression that ‘kafir’ one-who-covers was more usually applied to people who are deemed to know, but conceal and/or deny, the ‘truth’, so apostates, heretics, muslims of the wrong flavor, etc.

    According to her bio, Gaga is of Americanized Italian extraction and was, at some point, a Roman Catholic. So, no connection to Islam that would make her present state one of apostasy or heresy; but under the generic ‘people of the book’ umbrella, unlike those polytheists.

    Now, I am shocked, shocked, that illiberal fundamentalists would dislike an uppity woman of known homosexual sympathies; but I would have expected a different pejorative…

    • [TooGoodToCheck]

      KEFIR!

      • [lecti]

        First thing that came to my mind as well.

    • [Summer Seale]

      You don’t hang out much in Jihadi circles, do you? =)

• [Senor Schaffer]

  Sex trades, human trafficking, but no Lady Gaga. Got it.

  *takes notes in imaginary Lego Moleskine*

  • [Mitchell Glaser]

    Lego Moleskine! 75% of BoingBoing readers just got a chubby. Add a banana and… erecto totallum.

    • [tré]

       3D print them and hand them out at Die Antwoord shows and suddenly we’re approaching that “more than 4 hours” that you’re supposed to call the doctor about.

• [fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

  So, who wants to bet that Gaga’s next over-the-top fashion statement will be called ‘Queen of Demon’? I could definitely see the costume types having fun with that one…

• [Antinous / Moderator]

  Fuck her.  I had that nickname first!

  • [Bob N Johnson]

     You didn’t use to talk like that, what’s going on, what’s going on?

    • [cellocgw]

      It wasn’t a pejorative — it was wishful thinking :-)

      • [Bob N Johnson]

        Then you don’t know Ant very well. Not saying he meant F her either, he just didn’t write fuck much before. Now, it seems quite common. Seems out of place.

        • [Charlie B]

          If one uses profanity rarely, it works better.

• [vattenpipa]

  Although I’m LOVING the “Queen of Demon”-sign, can it really be called a “demonstration” if there’s four people?
  How hard is it to find four of Anything that’s against something?

  I bet you an arbitrary Billion Dollars that I can find four people that’s against waffles in like 30 minutes.
  That doesn’t necessarily make them representative of a population. Or anything.

  Damn waffles-haters!

  • [kinscore]

    Demon-stration?

  • [zarray]

    Oh shit, too bad my gramps isn’t still alive, “a waffle is nothing more than a hoity-toity pancake”

    • [tré]

       I lol’d.

• [eldritch]

  Jee, a pop diva whose entire schtick is being sexually provacative decides to hold a major event in a region of the world where such provocations are (however wrongly or unfairly) still viewed as matters of intense besmirchment of honor and shameful on such a level that people actually socially condone violence in response to such behavior?

  There’s a line, possibly not very fine, between standing  for whatever personal or social values you hold or advocate despite outside opinion or misguided tradition, and taking a baseball bat to a hornet’s nest.

  Even putting that aside, you’d think her corporate handlers would be smart enough to realize a regional population that is prepared to cause so much trouble that the local police are unwilling / unable to deal with it probably isn’t going to be a very profitable market. Unless they’re just so money hungry for the short-term cash potential that they’re overlooking the possible longterm consequences?

  • [Guido]

    If some people there wnat her to go (because somebody is buying the tickets), how the feelings of butthurt fundies have precedence over their preference to watch her show?
    It’s not like she’s kissing Madonna on the Kaaba, both of them covered only with honey.

    • [fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

      Is the Kaaba thing playing before or after the Virgin Mary/Mary Magdalene Golgotha poledance? Inquiring minds want to know…

    • [eldritch]

      You’re ignoring the larger context of the situation, which is one of practical considerations.

      Let’s take something that in our own culture is abhorant. Cannibalism sounds good, although it may actually be too weak a stand-in. No matter, let’s work with this.

      So a person from ‘Elsewhere’ is coming to Washington DC where they’re going to hold a public event in which they cook and eat the bodies of several deceased children, as a form of artistry. You’re probably already recoiling at the thought, and can easily imagine just how utterly unacceptable the mere concept is in the context of our society. Yet in this person’s home, the strange land of ‘Elsewhere’, this sort of behavior is accepted and even glorified – and this person’s celebrity has been confered purely by the perceived artistic merit of their performance of this behavior. In fact, the residents of ‘Elsewhere’ believe that they are forward-thinking and well-adjusted people, and that cultures such as ours which do not tolerate this behavior are backwards and barbaric, ultra-conservative, and that our cultural values are the illogical product of religious societal influences.

      And from a logical standpoint, they’d be absolutely correct. There is nothing inherently wrong with cannibalism. Our aversion to it is based almost entirely in our religious history – a fact plainly demonstrated by extant cultures in the world today whose cultural values actually EMBRACE cannibalism as a religious and cultural virtue. These are minority cultures, but they do exist.

      So let’s say the government and police of Washington DC, realizing that this peron being allowed to perform their public cannibalism would inflame local passions and possibly incite violence or rioting, deemed the risks too great and the cost of maintaining order too high and chose to deny permission for the event – even though the cannibalism itself is entirely harmless, even though our aversion to the concept is entirely illogical and based in outdated religious values.

      I guarantee you a vast proportion of the very same people who, in their supposed cultural enlightenment, support Ms. Germanotta being allowed to perform in Jakarta would be disgusted and outraged and violently object to allowing the hypothetical public cannibalism art performance in Washington DC to take place.

      Even putting aside difference of cultural value, which are essentially arbitrary anyway, the major point of contention I am making is that Ms. Germanotta ought to be able to recognize a bad situation when she sees one and make the prudent call to not risk inciting violence and public backlash.

      Should the local population of Indonesia be more tolerant of sexual freedoms? That’s utterly irrelevant. What matters is that it is imprudent to go ahead with plans that have such a high chance of turning ugly, no matter the reasons behind that chance. You wouldn’t host the World Series in the middle of Category 5 Hurricane, and you shouldn’t hold a concert for a sex-diva in a hotbed of conservative resentment.

      • [Rindan]

        Moral relativism is a progressives Achilles heel.  It doesn’t matter how backwards, oppressive, and horrid the behavior, so long as it is in someone else’s culture, you just need to be “understanding” and fuck off because from their perspective you are the devil and not them.  Yawn.

        Lady Gaga will do more for the liberty of women in Indonesia than all the hand wringing sociologist in the world combined.

        Of course Lady Gaga is trying to inflame passions.  I wouldn’t be shocked if she fully expected the concert to get canceled too.  That is the point.  Assuming it isn’t just for publicity of the more materialistic kind (who doesn’t want to be banned in X nation!), the point is to bring attention to the issues in Indonesia.  

        Cultural silence doesn’t help anyone.  You can see this in Americans changing views on homosexuality.  A culture of silence dominated mainstream conservation on the topic.  It wasn’t until people get LOUD and open about it that views started to change… and they didn’t just change, they swung in one of the most  quickest swings in public opinion on a social issue ever seen.  The US swung from Don’t Ask Don’t Tell being “progressive” because it didn’t drum gays out of the military instantly, to supporting Don’t Ask Don’t Tell being seen as the regressive social conservative view and the country being evenly split on gay marriage.

        Loud is the way to go on social issues.  Respecting people’s fucked up “cultural sensibilities” hasn’t ever won anyone a god damn thing.  Lady Gaga shaking her ass in Indonesia is a fucking gift to that nation.   Making noise and getting the concert canceled is no small gift either.

        • [eldritch]

          No one is advocating moral relativism. I was illustrating the opposite side of the issue, because it is an issue which ought to be viewed from multiple viewpoints.

          Ms. Germanotta is indeed trying to inflame passions. But there’s a point at which inflamed passions become dangerous, at which the fire grows beyond one’s ability to reasonably control, and then people get burned. When civil unrest is a real potential outcome of your actions, you have a moral obligation to reconsider them, no matter your cause. Ghandi went to jail and went on hunger strikes, but he never incited violence.

          Cultural silence indeed doesn’t help anyone. But no one is advocating silence – merely restraint. The principles of physics apply even at the cultural level. If you apply a lot of force very quickly with little control, you end up destroying things. If you apply a lot of force more slowly with more control, you end up shaping things instead.

          Being “loud” is only one option for change, and hardly ever the best one. Moreover, respect is the foundation for understanding – and despite your claims otherwise, respecting people has won quite a bit in the course of human history. Forcing your values on someone else breeds resistance, resentment, violence, intolerance, hatred. Someone is far more likely to listen to what you have to say if you are quietly, respectfully persistant than if you shove a bullhorn in their face and purposefully offend and abuse them.

        • [Rindan]

          eldritch:

          “Ghandi went to jail and went on hunger strikes, but he never incited violence. ”

          You really don’t know the history of India’s independence, do you?  Ghandi advocated against violence, but he sure as hell caused some.  Provoking violent reaction by the British government through peaceful protest was one of the more galvanizing moments of the Indian independence movement.

          “Being “loud” is only one option for change, and hardly ever the best one. Moreover, respect is the foundation for understanding – and despite your claims otherwise, respecting people has won quite a bit in the course of human history. Forcing your values on someone else breeds resistance, resentment, violence, intolerance, hatred. Someone is far more likely to listen to what you have to say if you are quietly, respectfully persistant than if you shove a bullhorn in their face and purposefully offend and abuse them.”

          All of the civil rights movements in the past couple of hundred years loudly disagree.  If you think that suffrage for women, civil rights in the American South, or gay rights now are quiet, I invite you to reexamine those histories.  Quiet conversation certainly happened, but it tended to be provoked by people doing daring, loud, and stupid shit.  Meaningful civil rights are movements are loud.  Loud works.  Meaningful social change takes offensive screaming at the top of the lungs and hurt butt sore feelings to provoke the quiet conversation.  Lady Gaga can serve a useful function being loud.  Other people can do the quiet thing.  Indonesia needs screaming.

        • [Rob]

          “Being “loud” is only one option for change, and hardly ever the best one.”

          OK, can you list a few examples of change that didn’t happen through being loud?

          All the big examples I can think of were all loud.
          Slavery, Women’s Suffrage, Equal Rights, Magna Carta…

        • [Antinous / Moderator]

          Of course Lady Gaga is trying to inflame passions.  I wouldn’t be shocked if she fully expected the concert to get canceled too.

          Although LG certainly has taken political stances, I guess that I don’t see so much subtext in this concert.  My assumption is that, like most concerts, it was set up by booking agents because she has enough of a fan base to make it financially worthwhile.  The fact that I see the event more as a business transaction than a political statement probably explains why I’m more offended by the idea of it being shut down by religious zealots.  I relate it more to segregated lunch counters than to kettling demonstrators.

        • [Navin_Johnson]

           The US swung from Don’t Ask Don’t Tell being “progressive” because it didn’t drum gays out of the military instantly, to supporting Don’t Ask Don’t Tell being seen as the regressive social conservative view and the country being evenly split on gay marriage.

          As a “progressive” I can tell you that I personally thought repealing “Don’t ask don’t tell” should have been waaaay down the list of issues when it came to actual “progressive” priorities.

      • [penguinchris]

        I think your overall point is valid, though I don’t fully agree, but your cannibalism example isn’t a fair comparison and is a bit of a straw-man. 

        There are people in Indonesia who want to see social progress. I’m not that familiar with the country but I do know that most youths – in Indonesia and in all the Asian countries with conservative cultures – look primarily to Western culture and social norms. As an obvious illustrative point, there is enough of a fan base for Lady Gaga in Indonesia to make it worth her while to perform there.

        I won’t get into what’s “right” or “wrong” as far as cultural norms go, but I will say that sexual freedoms (etc.) are “right” and are worth fighting for – it is relevant. 

        There is clearly an oppressive social force in Indonesia preventing social progress from taking significant hold from within. It’s no surprise, then, that those who want progress look elsewhere for help. Lady Gaga performing in Jakarta would be a huge statement. When the only trouble that might have occurred would have been caused by the oppressors and not the Lady Gaga fans, that’s another big statement (see police violence against protesters in the US and elsewhere as an illustration of that point).

        She must have been well aware of this, and wanted to perform there for exactly that reason. Then it was made clear by Indonesia’s oppressors that they wouldn’t allow it – essentially a threat to cause trouble – and she made the calculation that Indonesia is not quite ready for such a big statement if confrontation is all but guaranteed, even if the progressive youth wants it.

        I guess my argument smacks of colonialism, but so be it if it’s unequivocally a positive thing and doesn’t involve wars or threats of violence (as classic colonialism does). It’s like the “culture bomb” from Civilization.

        Indonesia will progress into the 20th century (might take a while longer for the 21st) fairly soon. Events like this can often cause things to progress a lot more quickly and I have no doubt that most Indonesians are crying out inside for quicker progress.

      • [Antinous / Moderator]

        So a person from ‘Elsewhere’ is coming to Washington DC where they’re going to hold a public event in which they cook and eat the bodies of several deceased children, as a form of artistry

        Aren’t you the guy who’s been skittering all over this thread accusing people of strawman arguments?

        • [teapot]

          I was gonna point this out.

          eldritch, if you’re going to make a strawman then you’d better at least make one that resembles the argument of your opponent or anyone with cursory reading comprehension skills is going to ignore your comment without consideration.

          As I have.

      • [Summer Seale]

        I absolutely loathe this kind of moral relativism. However, I agree with the basis of your example in one sense:

        Is it illegal to put on a display of the kind that Lady Gaga does in a private and enclosed area? Of course, I have zero knowledge about the laws there but if it is legal, then the concert should be allowed to be held. The stadium/hall where she is going to play is presumably rented and, therefore, a private place. If the people going there are going by their own choice and paying with their own money, and the place is private, and the show acts “legal” by nature, then it should be held, absolutely.

        The problem with your example is that cannibalism is illegal almost everywhere in the world and, therefore, whether it is conducted in a private arena or not, it cannot legally take place.

        If Lady Gaga’s acts are not legal in private in Indonesia, then they probably shouldn’t have the concert. I personally think that they should be legal and should be allowed to have it, but not if it is completely illegal over there. Unless, that is, Lady Gaga suddenly decides to become a private activist against such illegalities in their society. In that case, we’re talking about a completely different situation.

      • [Sate^Padang]

        Dear Eldrich, you really do not know what you are talking about, as you really do not know Indonesia. You are using cannibalism as your metaphore which is just too far fetched in comparison to pornography. Let me tell you something that you definitely do not know. In the villages in Indonesia, and in these villages the so called Islamic Defense Front (FPI) community also lived in, almost every Saturday nights there were local dancers wearing tight skirts and no bras dancing to please the local community. And by throwing some minimal amount of money to the stage you are welcome to come up and dance (actually the guys will try to rub their genitals to the dancers) on stage. And as the dancers dance wildly by shaking what their momma give them, the guys will then slip the tipping money to which ever body part of the dancers that they like, the tradition is called “sawer” which directly translated as to tip a dancer, and it is publicly known and “really not a secret that it is still being practiced even today in the villages of Java island (base camps of the so called Islamic Fronts) in Indonesia. If you compare the performance of Lady Gaga to Cannibalism, then you will be performing cannibalism in a community that conduct this practice every single week. The reasons behind the banning of Lady Gaga is not pornography or sexual freedom, but simply because Lady Gaga comes from the West! Stop being a hypocrite and be honest about it. I live in Indonesia, although I do not like Lady Gaga dan disagree with her pornographic performances, there are no reason at all for violence towards her fans. You can choose this: which is worse, seeing some body naked passing you by or having a stone thrown at your head? The Islamic Front condemn pornography but replaces it with brutality. Sorry for my poor English, but I hope you do understand what I am talking about.

        • [teapot]

          Thank you for your comment. Your English is completely understandable and your inside knowledge and perspective on this subject is very much appreciated.

      • [Guido]

        WTF? Mother of false equivalences! You are comparing showing a leg and outrageous customs with killing children! And, if what you are claiming is that only children deceased from natural causes, here you have an example of cannibalism that is acceptable to me:  http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/23767968228/japanese-chef-has-his-dick-removed-cooks-it-up-and, I’d probably puke and cover my own dear genitals before fading, but, whatever, he can do whatever he wants with his body. And I’d be really pissed off with anybody trying to prevent it, as long as it is legal, after all, if other people want to watch the cannibal art, no one is harmed/murdered, who the hell am I to prevent it? Of course, local authorities could throw the book at people, but it did not happen in this case, so she is not doing anything illegal, otherwise the show would even be allowed to take place, to begin with.

        What you are saying, essentially, is that because some people are butthurt fundies, she needs to go to the back of the bus. And also need to gay people, incidentally. You are painting Indonesia with a very broad brush. As in any society, there are backwards fundamentalists and more open minded people, and the fact that the concert was allowed to happens shows that the place is not as you are trying to depict it, there were no mass riots, only a bunch of intolerants making themselves stupid in public. And I still have not read why we must not hurt their precious feelings, but hurting the feelings of her fans is A-OK.

        As for cannibalism, people are cannibals literally on Sundays if they are Catholics.

      • [snagglepuss]

         Really. “Our aversion to (cannibalism) is based almost entirely in our religious history” – ?

        You’re not catholic, are you ?

    • [Charlie B]

      It’s not like she’s kissing Madonna on the Kaaba, both of them covered only with honey.

      You are my new hero.

  • [Antinous / Moderator]

    There’s a line, possibly not very fine, between standing  for whatever personal or social values you hold or advocate despite outside opinion or misguided tradition, and taking a baseball bat to a hornet’s nest.

    So women driving in Saudi Arabia are…hornets’ nest?

    • [eldritch]

      Shame on you, Antinous. You’re committing a number of  logical fallacies. You’re asking a Loaded Question and making a Strawman, and decent arguments could be made for Appealing to Emotion, the Fallacy of Composition/Division, and making things out to be Black and White, given the larger subject and context.

      Ms. Germanotta’s being denied permission to perform in Indonesia has absolutely nothing to do with women driving in Saudi Arabia. I feel it perfectly reasonable to chastise those who rush to her defense when their chief reason for doing so is seemingly the championing of their own personally accepted cultural values.

      • [Antinous / Moderator]

        Well, Mister Logical Fallacies,

        Maybe you should consider answering the question instead of resorting to your list.  You have made a weaselish statement which strongly suggests to me that you put less value on human rights than on kowtowing to religious authority.

      • [teapot]

        ..their chief reason for doing so is..

        I’m amazed you’re able to determine motive through a few paragraphs of text. Maybe you’ve missed your calling and you should take your ESP skills to the TSA where they would be appreciated?

        Oh, and Quit with the references to “Ms. Germanotta”… this isn’t Law and Order and it doesn’t serve to make you seem any smarter.

  • [Shinkuhadoken]

     The incident in question involves such a complex mix of issues that it’s imprudent to be judged so flippantly. Framing this as a corporate venture that was insensitive to the local culture is one way of looking at it, but it doesn’t encompass all the aspects to this. It’s hard to decide if this is a triumph or travesty of free speech, or if this is religious oppression or cultural independence at work. Are these women protesting out of self-determinism where they have the freedom to make any other choice than the one they’ve made? Or would they be punished far worse for taking the opposing view, and if so, is that really something we should approve of or defend?

  • [chgoliz]

    Yeah, it’s not like she’s going to get worldwide coverage over this kerfuffle, or anything.

• [h4x0r]

  I am a supporter of less Lady Gaga in the world. Not for any social or political reasons but, because I think she makes horrible noise (No, it doesn’t deserve to be called music. My opinion, fuck you.) and I am embarrassed to admit that I was born in the same country she was.

  Also, what happened to the story/news that basically stated that she stole her whole schtick from some friend who had passed away? She’s a clown who profits off a demographic who is desperate for role models and advocates. Like she didn’t know this would be controversial or a bad idea? This is publicity pure and simple. Poo on her.

  • [Antinous / Moderator]

    Like she didn’t know this would be controversial or a bad idea?

    Yeah, she should know her place. I just hate it when women get uppity.

    • [eldritch]

       Again with the Strawman tactics, Antinous.

      You are contorting people’s words into arguments that they are not making. You are misrepresenting what others are trying to communicate in order to create an Ad Hominem attack on their characters and discredit their opinions. You are not responding to the criticisms being leveled in a logical way, you are working to vilify people who disagree with you.

      Just because someone criticizes or (heaven/god/the flying spaghetti monster help us) actively disapproves of Ms. Germanotta does not mean they are sexist, patriarchal, or any of the other qualities you are insinuating.

      • [Antinous / Moderator]

        Again with the Strawman tactics, Antinous.

        Is your only game resorting to a canned list of logical fallacies?

      • [spacedmonkey]

        He’s not contorting people’s words into arguments they’re not making, he’s pointing out assumptions implicit in those arguments that you appear not to be aware of but that are stunningly, glaringly obvious to people who don’t share them.

        • [teapot]

          Wait.. so you mean this list of things I keep using as reasons other people are wrong actually mean things?

          eldritch: Does your #1 list happen to contain the fallacy fallacy? Maybe you should read up on that one and understand that sometimes fallacies are used to illustrate the preposterous nature of an argument?

  • [shane_c]

    Which one of her albums have you listened to? None? Thats what I thought.

    • [eldritch]

      Another set of logical fallacies. A Loaded Question, Ad Hominem attack…

      Listening to Ms. Germonatta’s albums (or failing to) has absolutely nothing to do with disliking her musical style, disparaging her celebrity, disapproving of her behavior/methods, or anything else that h4x0r mentioned.

      • [Antinous / Moderator]

        Listening to Ms. Germonatta’s albums (or failing to) has absolutely nothing to do with disliking her musical style

        Is that a joke?

        • [tré]

          To be fair, Top 40 artists focus significantly more on singles than albums. As someone who’s heard her singles (try being involved in queer activism without doing so) and not heard her albums, I can say 1) that I don’t like her sounds and 2) that I have no interest in her albums.

          By the way, other queer activists, why her? And why adopt the (blatantly wrong) “Born This Way” sentiment? Is “This Way Due To A Confluence Of Barely Understood Biological, Cultural, And Psychological Factors; Though That’s Far Beside The Point Anyway” not catchy enough?

      • [Josh Jasper]

        Now that’s just post hoc propter hoc, with a side of circular reasoning.

      • [spiderman0521]

        Dammit, where’s the troll flag/downvote button when you need it?

  • [ChrisLeBeouf]

    “I don’t like it, therefore no one should be able to listen to it!”

• [Mother Joker]

   This cat already has the title. (SFW) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq66sGLxWVI

• [Art]

  My Dear Protester Lady,

  That would be, “Demons” – plural.

  Yours Truly,

  “Satin” 

  The silky-smooth Ruler of  Hell :)

  • [benher]

    Huh. Must be part of the Kafir Rouge…

  • [zarray]

    The proper title would be Queens’ of Demon

    Sincerely, Attorneys’ General

    P.s. Would you like some Whoppers’ Jr?

• [philllies]

  Just saw a picture of a Muslim woman in full head gear. She was applying make up to her hidden eyes. Can a Muslim woman, or any woman explain this? Was she preparing to go somewhere forbidden where she removes her burka, and does what?

  • [Antinous / Moderator]

    Are you joking? When she’s at home or at her friend’s house, she takes the burqa off and, surprise!, she’s wearing a whole outfit under that. It’s an outer garment for wearing in public.

    • [teapot]

      Full head gear… you know – for playing sport.

      We’re clearly speaking to someone who is well versed in the complexities of religious practice here.

  • [Charlie B]

    Keep in mind the Prophet merely asked women to cover their hair when outside the home or in the presence of male guests.  Women’s hair is seen as sensual and arousing, like naked breasts in American culture, and thus immodest and distracting to display.

    The birka is one Muslim group’s extremist interpretation of scriptural injunctions to modesty, and most Muslim women have never worn one.  So asking “a Muslim woman” about birquas is like asking a “a Christian woman” about snake-handling. Sure, maybe you’ll get lucky and ask a snake-handler, but more likely she’s going to be from the mainstream, and feel a bit insulted at your characterisation of her religion as backward and loopy.

• [Mephy]

  Lady Gaga’s hyper-sexuality is annoying to me, and I consider myself only mildly conservative…  I’m not sure why she (or her handlers) would think it’s a good idea to set up a show for her in a country where a large portion of the population will find her downright offensive.  Typical American bluster.  Just insert yourselves into another culture and foist your beliefs down their throat.  Pasties and all.

  I’m all for promoting positive social reform in countries like Indonesia, but slapping them in the face probably isn’t the best way to do that.  In all likelihood offensive stunts like this will simply drive Muslims farther away from Western culture and deeper into the gun-totin’, women oppressing  society they’ve tenuously built for themselves.

  • [fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

    The nice thing about those crass, blustering, Americans is that their greed tends to motivate them to focus on areas with a favorable anticipated ROI…

    If her people didn’t think that this would move product(whether locally, or through publicity elsewhere), they probably wouldn’t have bothered. It is certainly possible that the whole thing is a cynical publicity stunt; but it is also hardly implausible that they expected to sell plenty of tickets in the more populous and cosmopolitan venues… Indonesia certainly has its hicks-in-the-sticks, as elsewhere; but they aren’t hegemonic.

    If Gaga were running some sort of extraction industry, steamrollering the locals and offshoring the goods would be a perfectly viable strategy, people do that all the time. As an entertainment industry figure, though, she at least needs buy-in from the local reactionaries’ rebellious children in order to make money on the scheme(.

    • [Charlie B]

      That’s entirely consistent with my understanding of Islam, although I must admit I haven’t finished reading the Qur’an yet.

      If she was Roman Catholic, and she has abandoned any of the teachings of the Xian holy book, then she is worse than infidel, she is apostate; and if a hierophant of that tradition were to issue a ban against her or call for her execution, it would not technically be sinful to murder her.  Although you’d have to do so with righteousness and purity of heart, which would disqualify nearly all living humans from performing the job.

      The Qur’an defines three classes of people, right in the Opening: those who know the truth and follow the straight path, who Allah favors (Muslims); those who are objects of anger (apostates like GaGa, and infidels such as Hindus); and those who wander astray (later explicitly defined to include observant Xians and Jews, the “people of the book”).

      I do not defend or detract, I merely explain, to the best of my understanding.  Corrections from mullahs invited.

      EDIT: man, I don’t even know what this was supposed to be a reply to any more. Before Disqus assigned it here, though, it made sense as part of a conversation. Now it’s just a Man Ray moment.

      • [teapot]

        My guess is that it’s fuzzy’s first comment and that you accidentally clicked this reply button instead of the one above.

  • [Mephy]

    Wait just one second!  Peaceful protests?  Women voicing their opinions in public?  Making positive social change through collective non-violent actions?!  Lada Gaga has done it!  She’s brought democratic ideals to even the Muslim world!

  • [morcheeba]

    “Typical American bluster.  Just insert yourselves into another culture and foist your beliefs down their throat.”

    … just like the British. and the Christians. and the French, Romans, Italians, Russians, Germans, Mongolians, and the Norse. and the Japanese, and the Chinese, and the Portuguese.

    • [tré]

      Never mind, folks, other people did it so it’s all good.

• [Guido]

  So, what should she do, if she has fans there? Not going? Sing under a hijab?

  Irshad Manji (reformist lesbian Muslim, yes, you read that well) just was there, and she was attacked during a presentation of her book. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/irshad-manji-book-tour-in-indonesia-runs-into-trouble-with-islamic-thugs/

  Should she keep silent too? Fuck it. If mere words offend these people, it’s their fault.

• [Mul Dok]

  It`s not just the Muslim world you know that shunned her from doing live concerts.
  From Korea
  http://www.firstpost.com/topic/person/lady-gaga-south-korean-christians-watch-an-antilady-gaga-vi-image-0dPo9jlbB5glW-71795-1.html 

  In philiphina, 
  http://blogserius.blogspot.com/2012/05/serius-sekitar-demo-anti-lady-gaga-di.html 

  • [benher]

    Yep. BB covered the Krazy Korean Kristians when they protested Lady Gaga a while back. 

• [riazm]

  Kind of amuses me that these protest signs have a photo of a face.

  It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Those who make images will be punished on the Day of Resurrection, and it will be said to them: ‘Bring to life that which you have created.’” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5607) and Muslim (2108). 

• [Pitawas Indharameesup]

  If one feels strongly about something to the extent that one would stand out in the street holding sign, then one should not be shy and turn away from the photographer.  It shows that these girls were doing it under duress from their menfolks as is often the case where, in this oppressed part of the world,  enlightenment has yet to visit. 

  • [Mephy]

    You turn away from photographers in parts of the world where you may get beat up, imprisoned or killed if the wrong person recognizes your picture.

• [steve kusuma]

  I’m from Indonesia. I’ll be glad if they don’t allow Lady Gaga to play here since she’s so cheesy. I wish Madonna would play here. Madonna’s latest album is awesome! Especially her halftime show!!! HOT!!!!

  Aside from that, Indonesians have way too many influence from the US, bad ones. Of course we need to keep up with our own cultural expressions. But I wish influence would come from other parts of the world as well.

  • [ChrisLeBeouf]

    It’s not like you’d be forced to attend.

• [jellyfishattack]

  She just did it for the publicity, she wasn’t really going to go to an unimaginably 3rd world religious dictatorship Hell hole…

  What truly surprised me was that they were allowed to show her on signs without a burkha.

• [anharmyenone]

  Having attended a Lady Gaga concert (Monster Ball tour), there is a significant attempt on her part to engage in a kind of therapy for LGBTQ people at her concerts (which anyone who feels marginalized for any other reason can decide to apply to themselves). She emphasizes having the courage to stand up for one’s right to be true to oneself, whatever that may be, with emphasis on LGBTQ, and she encourages her concert attendees to draw emotional and psychic and moral strength from the concert assembly as a whole. Her concerts are clearly designed to be life-changing for people who were afraid to come out or afraid to proudly and publicly be themselves in some other way. She calls on her fans to demand that institutions and belief systems and other people accept them for who they are. The lasting legacy of a Lady Gaga concert is not music or sexy dancing but minds free and courageous.

  • [tré]

     The Flaming Lips do that AND music. Just sayin’.

• [snagglepuss]

  What we see here – In Indonesia, not on this thread – Is a collision between two ruthlessly self-promoting and self-righteous viewpoints. Neither can legitimately claim the moral high ground, so flinging mud and creating media spectacles is how they both stay in business.

  Wise up. Fuck BOTH of them. Neither are worth your time or effort.

• [Bob N Johnson]

  WOW! This thread is so F’d up  I can’t believe it.

  First of all Lady Gaga is awesome, whether you and your out of date, limited taste in music or showmanship agrees is immaterial. Lady Gaga is another in a long line of acts that remind me of David Bowie. Whatever your, usually ill-informed and limited, opinion, LG is a huge hit with millions, so please continue to tell me how everyone else is wrong, but you.

  Secondly, as many have pointed out Lady Gaga, or any big act, touring with millions of dollars worth of show, on a very tight schedule, is not going to book a date in the hopes of being canceled just to generate some publicity they clearly don’t need. Lady Gaga can get that much free coverage going uncovered to a baseball game.

  Third, Who gives two shits about a few women protesting the event? As has clearly been pointed out in a couple of comments by people who claim to live in Indonesia, those women are probably on the street because they were told to do so. So what. If the show is booked and it sells tickets then the crowd has spoken in the only real language on Earth, with their paychecks.

  Fourth, Madonna is an old hack, she sucks. I’ve always respected her talent and ability to mine the moment, but she has always sucked in my own limited and ill-informed opinion.

  • [Mitchell Glaser]

    Look out! Gaga-emo-ruption is about to erupt! But I support your right, no, your duty, to enjoy and defend the music that moves you. I certainly did, back in the day.

    But I might point out something, when you start to take that “she has a bazillion fans, so everybody is wrong but you?” attitude. Check out the Beatles Shea Stadium concert or any other appearance from that tour. The chicks are just losing it, screaming themselves hoarse, some into unconsciousness, over what is now thought to be the least interesting stuff the Beatles ever did. And just to be clear, this in not an endorsement of the Beatles over Gaga (heaven forbid!), it’s pointing out the the millions who were ready to give their souls to the Beatles back then, even those people themselves, realized within a few years that it was just some fun dance music, plop.

    • [Bob N Johnson]

      The Be-at-tels moved me in the day, I’m much older than you may think. Lady Gaga doesn’t necessarily move me either, but she is completely awesome today, at this time, and that can not be argued by any rational person. Whatever happens tomorrow, when her fans come out of the daze is immaterial. I once liked Atom Ant for about three minutes.

      I’m more of a Russian Circles, Kinski, El Ten Eleven, Minus the Bear, Tool, Porcupine Tree, etc. sort of person. Oh, I mustn’t forget Portis and Radio heads.

      • [Mitchell Glaser]

        You got me. If you are old enough to have listened to the Beatles when they were together, then I salute your ability to relate to those much more recent bands. Having listened to 50 years of popular music gives you a certain perspective. In Gaga’s case (and in my unhumble opinion) I see a rather small cake buried under a ton of frosting. But then I always thought that the frosting was the best part of a cake.

        • [Bob N Johnson]

          Though I have generally avoided pop, pop music frames our moments.

          Not to rub it in, but I remember being chased by girls while wearing my Beatles look-a-like jacket after seeing A Hard Day’s Night as a pre-teen in 64. A few years later at my first concert, Grand Funk Railroad, I remember wondering why I would want to buy a lid when I didn’t even have a jar. Who brings a jar needing a lid to a concert? And, why are lids so expensive at concerts? $20 seemed like a lot for a lid.

          P.S. Pink Floyd’s Dark Side Of The Moon was awesome live.

        • [Charlie B]

          Agree with your point, hate the metaphor.  Frosting is disgusting.

  • [Stephan]

    Leave Lady Gaga alone!!!

• [Culturedropout]

  I dunno… they’re showing quite a bit of skin there – you can practically see their entire hand!  Someone should do something!

  Tolak tolak ton… invaaaaasiiiii… buday ay ay ay ay ay ah… Everybody sing!