Comments on: Snooper's Charter petition: don't let the government transform GB into KGB http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:47:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: shadowfirebird http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1451509 shadowfirebird Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1451509 As (Conservative!) MP David Davis rightly points out, this is a law which will effect everyone except the criminals -- who are smart enough to work around it. Oh, okay, I'm hazarding that most people *here* are smart enough to work around it too.  I certainly will be, for as long as it doesn't make me a target, anyway. As (Conservative!) MP David Davis rightly points out, this is a law which will effect everyone except the criminals — who are smart enough to work around it.

Oh, okay, I’m hazarding that most people *here* are smart enough to work around it too.  I certainly will be, for as long as it doesn’t make me a target, anyway.

]]> By: wrecksdart http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450784 wrecksdart Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450784 Read about this in USA Today's brief coverage (that great paper of mediocrity) and one of the (few) money quotes came from a British government spokesperson that said, "Unless you're a criminal then you've nothing to worry about from this new law."  This mindset is one I've never been able to fathom, and despite having a mischievous side, I'm no criminal (and I resent the implication). Read about this in USA Today’s brief coverage (that great paper of mediocrity) and one of the (few) money quotes came from a British government spokesperson that said, “Unless you’re a criminal then you’ve nothing to worry about from this new law.”  This mindset is one I’ve never been able to fathom, and despite having a mischievous side, I’m no criminal (and I resent the implication).

]]> By: GregS http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450732 GregS Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450732 Willkommen in Ost-Deutschland. Genießen Sie Ihren Aufenthalt! Willkommen in Ost-Deutschland. Genießen Sie Ihren Aufenthalt!

]]> By: Roy Trumbull http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450696 Roy Trumbull Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450696 From the 1940s a lyric: Who's going to watch the man, the man that's going to watch the man, the man that's going to watch me? From Animal Farm: All the animals are equal except some are more equal than others. From the 1940s a lyric: Who’s going to watch the man, the man that’s going to watch the man, the man that’s going to watch me?
From Animal Farm: All the animals are equal except some are more equal than others.

]]> By: DominicSayers http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450432 DominicSayers Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450432 Also on the ORG site now is the text of the bill  http://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Communications_Data_Bill/Draft Good work, chaps. Also on the ORG site now is the text of the bill 
http://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Communications_Data_Bill/Draft

Good work, chaps.

]]> By: ElectroDruid http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450362 ElectroDruid Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450362 Chrome tells me that the link at the bottom of this article, the one that goes to the openrightsgroup page, contains "insecure content". What's that all about, then? Chrome tells me that the link at the bottom of this article, the one that goes to the openrightsgroup page, contains “insecure content”. What’s that all about, then?

]]> By: zax http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450350 zax Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450350 Ok, thanks for the reply, I'll sign ORG now. :) Ok, thanks for the reply, I’ll sign ORG now.

:)

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450283 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450283 "The vendor regrets that your civil liberties are out of stock. Please be assured that - should the weather improve - they will be placed immediately on back-order." “The vendor regrets that your civil liberties are out of stock. Please be assured that – should the weather improve – they will be placed immediately on back-order.”

]]> By: Cory Doctorow http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450269 Cory Doctorow Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450269  I said it in Wednesday's post: http://boingboing.net/2012/06/13/uk-government-offers-unlimited.html  I said it in Wednesday’s post:

http://boingboing.net/2012/06/13/uk-government-offers-unlimited.html

]]> By: Kirk Froeliche http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450268 Kirk Froeliche Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450268 Haha, it is like that, they say you have your freedoms, they are just not available at this time. Try back later kthxbai! Haha, it is like that, they say you have your freedoms, they are just not available at this time. Try back later kthxbai!

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450267 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450267 Symmetry in surveilling empleases the soul. Symmetry in surveilling empleases the soul.

]]> By: Kirk Froeliche http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450266 Kirk Froeliche Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450266 Thanks. Beautiful how it is worded, that it so often excludes the need for a warrant, until a warrant is needed. It is a huge phishing trip. I hope they pack a lunch. Thanks. Beautiful how it is worded, that it so often excludes the need for a warrant, until a warrant is needed.

It is a huge phishing trip. I hope they pack a lunch.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450265 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450265 Look, or look not. There is no pry. Look, or look not. There is no pry.

]]> By: DominicSayers http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450264 DominicSayers Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450264 Fair point that "spy on" is not the same as "read". I wonder how many of your readers will make that distinction? You list many of the reasons why I dislike the bill. I wish this is what you'd said in the OP. Fair point that “spy on” is not the same as “read”. I wonder how many of your readers will make that distinction?

You list many of the reasons why I dislike the bill. I wish this is what you’d said in the OP.

]]> By: ingulf http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450259 ingulf Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450259 The government are spinning this as  business as usual, but it's a huge expansion. Snooped data will include data which "identifies data as comprised in, attached to or logically associated with the communication." In other words, every link you clicked on. So without a warrant, the police will know, for example, not just what newspaper you read, but which articles you read. The government are spinning this as  business as usual, but it’s a huge expansion.

Snooped data will include data which “identifies data as comprised in, attached to or logically associated with the communication.” In other words, every link you clicked on. So without a warrant, the police will know, for example, not just what newspaper you read, but which articles you read.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450258 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450258 All 123 pages of it. All 123 pages of it.

]]> By: alan woodward http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450253 alan woodward Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450253 I read in today's guardian "social services directors reported that £1.89bn has been cut in "service redesign" for the care for the old and disabled" [Polly Toynbee] Is this the same 1.8bn being spent on spying? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/14/duncan-smith-fact-free-dogma-children I read in today’s guardian “social services directors reported that £1.89bn has been cut in “service redesign” for the care for the old and disabled” [Polly Toynbee]

Is this the same 1.8bn being spent on spying?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/14/duncan-smith-fact-free-dogma-children

]]> By: Cory Doctorow http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450250 Cory Doctorow Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450250 You've conflated "spy on" with "read." There is no good distinction between "metadata" and "content." URLs can be used to re-retrieve data and carry clues to their content through RESTful arguments, email subject lines and thread identifiers reveal enormous data about their payloads, etc. The fact that you use Facebook X times/day is itself content. Lawful access to Facebook will likely include who you interacted with, and how often, and where they were in your network, etc. This is assuredly content -- it's about 95% of what Facebook is.  The artificial distinction between "content" and "metadata" is a smokescreen to hide the extent to which the data harvested and retained (and accessed without a warrant) will contain real, compromising, personal, private information. You’ve conflated “spy on” with “read.” There is no good distinction between “metadata” and “content.” URLs can be used to re-retrieve data and carry clues to their content through RESTful arguments, email subject lines and thread identifiers reveal enormous data about their payloads, etc. The fact that you use Facebook X times/day is itself content. Lawful access to Facebook will likely include who you interacted with, and how often, and where they were in your network, etc. This is assuredly content — it’s about 95% of what Facebook is.

 The artificial distinction between “content” and “metadata” is a smokescreen to hide the extent to which the data harvested and retained (and accessed without a warrant) will contain real, compromising, personal, private information.

]]> By: Cory Doctorow http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450251 Cory Doctorow Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450251 Thank you for your suggestion. Thank you for your suggestion.

]]> By: Cory Doctorow http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450249 Cory Doctorow Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450249  Don't think so. 38D collects names, but ORG forwards your petition directly to your MP.  Don’t think so. 38D collects names, but ORG forwards your petition directly to your MP.

]]> By: SpaceBeers http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450241 SpaceBeers Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450241 I could not sign this fast enough. Fuckers. I could not sign this fast enough. Fuckers.

]]> By: DominicSayers http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450239 DominicSayers Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450239 FWIW, I think this is a terrible bill. But please compare the following statement from the bill with what Cory wrote: "Communications data is information about a communication; it can include the details of the time, duration, originator and recipient of a communication; but not the content of the communication itself." (http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm83/8359/8359.asp p6) Do you think this allows the government to read your Facebook updates? FWIW, I think this is a terrible bill. But please compare the following statement from the bill with what Cory wrote:

“Communications data is information about a communication; it can include the details of the time, duration, originator and recipient of a communication; but not the content of the communication itself.” (http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm83/8359/8359.asp p6)

Do you think this allows the government to read your Facebook updates?

]]> By: DominicSayers http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450236 DominicSayers Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450236 You could have named the bill, you could have linked to it so people could make their own minds up. But instead you ask people to protest a bill based on your interpretation, and give them information not on the content but on how to effectively protest. Anybody capable of independent thought: the bill is the Draft Communications Data Bill and you can read it here: http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm83/8359/8359.asp You could have named the bill, you could have linked to it so people could make their own minds up. But instead you ask people to protest a bill based on your interpretation, and give them information not on the content but on how to effectively protest.

Anybody capable of independent thought: the bill is the Draft Communications Data Bill and you can read it here: http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm83/8359/8359.asp

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450228 That_Anonymous_Coward Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450228 Someone should sneak in an amendment that public servants and elected officials records are open to the public all the time.  Nothing to hide and all of that.... still think its a good idea when random people can trawl through your life with no good reason?  Its often fun to see the little light dawn on them that the law applies to them as well. Someone should sneak in an amendment that public servants and elected officials records are open to the public all the time.  Nothing to hide and all of that…. still think its a good idea when random people can trawl through your life with no good reason?  Its often fun to see the little light dawn on them that the law applies to them as well.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450225 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450225  So basically you're saying Richard Nixon was all true scotsmen? Never occurred to me before. Cool.  So basically you’re saying Richard Nixon was all true scotsmen? Never occurred to me before. Cool.

]]> By: rachel612 http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450223 rachel612 Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450223 Isn't it somewhat ironic that the UK Government that is currently in trouble for courting media that monitored people illegally is now seeking to make tracking of almost everything legal? "Well, when the President does it, that means that it is not illegal." - Richard Nixon. "“I’m so rooting for you tomorrow not just as a personal friend but also because professionally we are all in this together." - Rebekah Brooks, to David Cameron, British Prime Minister. Isn’t it somewhat ironic that the UK Government that is currently in trouble for courting media that monitored people illegally is now seeking to make tracking of almost everything legal?

“Well, when the President does it, that means that it is not illegal.” – Richard Nixon.

““I’m so rooting for you tomorrow not just as a personal friend but also because professionally we are all in this together.” – Rebekah Brooks, to David Cameron, British Prime Minister.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450222 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450222 I'm hoping this will be defeated. But only because I kind of expect governments and states to whimsically peek at our communications any time they like anyway, regardless of any wet/pansy/milquetoast laws against it, and if they're caught doing it we get punitive damages (at the taxpayer's expense of course, which is bad, but watcha gonna do?). I’m hoping this will be defeated. But only because I kind of expect governments and states to whimsically peek at our communications any time they like anyway, regardless of any wet/pansy/milquetoast laws against it, and if they’re caught doing it we get punitive damages (at the taxpayer’s expense of course, which is bad, but watcha gonna do?).

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450219 Lemoutan Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450219  Violated? Don't you mean 'temporarily suspended for the public protection' along with all of the other post EU-agreed-enshrined freedom suspensions since 2001?  Violated? Don’t you mean ‘temporarily suspended for the public protection’ along with all of the other post EU-agreed-enshrined freedom suspensions since 2001?

]]> By: zax http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450214 zax Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450214 Hey Cory, I've signed this petition at 38 degrees here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/stop-government-snooping?utm_source=share&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=privacy&source=facebook-link&subsource=privacy-spread#petition Is it going to confuse things with multiple petitions?  Will it matter if I sign both? Hey Cory, I’ve signed this petition at 38 degrees here:

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/stop-government-snooping?utm_source=share&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=privacy&source=facebook-link&subsource=privacy-spread#petition

Is it going to confuse things with multiple petitions?  Will it matter if I sign both?

]]> By: sigdrifa http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/snoopers-charter-petition-d.html#comment-1450208 sigdrifa Fri, 15 Jun 2012 09:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166442#comment-1450208 How could they get away with that? Wouldn't that violate EU law? How could they get away with that? Wouldn’t that violate EU law?

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