Comments on: Woman legislator in Michigan barred from future debates for using the word "vagina" in abortion debate http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 26 May 2013 06:42:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Xof http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451724 Xof Sun, 17 Jun 2012 04:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451724 @cleek:disqus <i>the vagina? i think you mean Rep. Lisa Brown's own personal vagina. right?</i> I think we're learning a great deal more about you than you realize, here. No, I do not mean any one person's personal vagina. I mean the vagina of the person seeking the procedure. That's 100% clear from what I wrote, but I'm happy to clarify it again for you. In any event, you now need to make the case that the phrase "no means no" by itself is a good and sufficient reason for an indefinite ban on speaking in the House, unless you believe that Mr Adler is lying. <i>still no difference?</i> Nope. None. You keep stating this over and over again, but I haven't heard a single actual reason that this is unparliamentary language. @cleek:disqus the vagina? i think you mean Rep. Lisa Brown’s own personal vagina. right?

I think we’re learning a great deal more about you than you realize, here.

No, I do not mean any one person’s personal vagina. I mean the vagina of the person seeking the procedure. That’s 100% clear from what I wrote, but I’m happy to clarify it again for you.

In any event, you now need to make the case that the phrase “no means no” by itself is a good and sufficient reason for an indefinite ban on speaking in the House, unless you believe that Mr Adler is lying.

still no difference?

Nope. None. You keep stating this over and over again, but I haven’t heard a single actual reason that this is unparliamentary language.

]]> By: Xof http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451710 Xof Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451710 The most important difference is that, in fact, she was in fact not censured for the word "vagina" at all, but for the phrase "no means no": http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120615/POLITICS02/206150373#ixzz1xrt0FJBb <i>Speaker Pro Tem John Walsh, R-Livonia, gaveled Brown out of order for saying "no means no" — because it suggested Brown was comparing the abortion legislation to rape, House GOP spokesman Ari Adler said. "It has nothing to do with the word vagina," Adler said.</i> Given that the legislation does, in fact, require involuntary and medically unnecessary penetration of the vagina by a foreign object in order to obtain a legal medical procedure, I'm a bit at a loss to see what was giving the honorable Speaker Pro Tem the vapors. The most important difference is that, in fact, she was in fact not censured for the word “vagina” at all, but for the phrase “no means no”:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120615/POLITICS02/206150373#ixzz1xrt0FJBb

Speaker Pro Tem John Walsh, R-Livonia, gaveled Brown out of order for saying “no means no” — because it suggested Brown was comparing the abortion legislation to rape, House GOP spokesman Ari Adler said.

“It has nothing to do with the word vagina,” Adler said.

Given that the legislation does, in fact, require involuntary and medically unnecessary penetration of the vagina by a foreign object in order to obtain a legal medical procedure, I’m a bit at a loss to see what was giving the honorable Speaker Pro Tem the vapors.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451496 Antinous / Moderator Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451496 Re-read your own comment. Repeat until you understand the irony that you've created. Re-read your own comment. Repeat until you understand the irony that you’ve created.

]]> By: cleek http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451482 cleek Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451482 "So you're allowed to use figurative language, but Rep. Brown isn't?" that would be an awesome comeback ... had i ever said anything even resembling that. "Got it." no, clearly you do not got it. you don't even seem to know what "it" is. (oh, how i hope you delete my next reply, and then close the thread! i know how important it is that you have the last word) “So you’re allowed to use figurative language, but Rep. Brown isn’t?”

that would be an awesome comeback … had i ever said anything even resembling that.

“Got it.”

no, clearly you do not got it. you don’t even seem to know what “it” is.

(oh, how i hope you delete my next reply, and then close the thread! i know how important it is that you have the last word)

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451474 Antinous / Moderator Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451474 So you're allowed to use figurative language, but Rep. Brown isn't? Got it. So you’re allowed to use figurative language, but Rep. Brown isn’t? Got it.

]]> By: Vnend http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451400 Vnend Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451400 They do when they are serving in the legislature. They do when they are serving in the legislature.

]]> By: frank255 http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451319 frank255 Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451319 Wow, my own country's legislative assembly leaves much to be desired - but yours, dear Michiganians, seems to be a freaking trainwreck! To ameliorate, I recommend forced vasectomies for all male GOP members. Wow, my own country’s legislative assembly leaves much to be desired – but yours, dear Michiganians, seems to be a freaking trainwreck!
To ameliorate, I recommend forced vasectomies for all male GOP members.

]]> By: digi_owl http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451317 digi_owl Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451317 Heh, thanks. I may need to get myself a copy. Heh, thanks. I may need to get myself a copy.

]]> By: chgoliz http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451309 chgoliz Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451309 Kind of like scary politicians. Kind of like scary politicians.

]]> By: Durwood Montgomery http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451276 Durwood Montgomery Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451276 You mean rape as in unwanted and unwarranted control of another person's sexual and/or reproductive organs?  I see your point.  /sarcasm off You mean rape as in unwanted and unwarranted control of another person’s sexual and/or reproductive organs?  I see your point.  /sarcasm off

]]> By: cleek http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451265 cleek Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451265 Moderator, educate thyself: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/analogy Moderator, educate thyself:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/analogy

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451238 Antinous / Moderator Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451238 <blockquote>she wasn't talking about the Platonic concept of "vagina".</blockquote>Refresh my memory. Does vagina come between octahedron and dodecahedron or between dodecahedron and icosahedron?

she wasn’t talking about the Platonic concept of “vagina”.

Refresh my memory. Does vagina come between octahedron and dodecahedron or between dodecahedron and icosahedron?

]]> By: Brie http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451224 Brie Sat, 16 Jun 2012 08:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451224 I Vagina that! Ill throw in a Penis for good measure. I Vagina that! Ill throw in a Penis for good measure.

]]> By: yadayada http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451206 yadayada Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451206 "  in which she implied that the Speaker and her opponents were trying to rape her." Huh. I interpreted that as her implying that the Speaker and her opponents were trying to tell her what she's allowed to do with her vagina. “  in which she implied that the Speaker and her opponents were trying to rape her.”

Huh. I interpreted that as her implying that the Speaker and her opponents were trying to tell her what she’s allowed to do with her vagina.

]]> By: ocker3 http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451183 ocker3 Sat, 16 Jun 2012 06:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451183  Oh if Only it did!  Oh if Only it did!

]]> By: ocker3 http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451181 ocker3 Sat, 16 Jun 2012 06:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451181  And the people who don't like abortions should work to make them almost completely Unnecessary, not illegal. Problem is, the people who don't like abortions also often don't seem to like telling people how to have sex that doesn't result in pregnancy. I was lucky, at my (protestant, church-run) private high school, they said "hold off on having sex, trust on this one, if you can't wait, this is how to avoid STDs and Pregnancy, but we'd prefer it you waited." Freakingly enlightened compared to some many other schools, private Or state apparently.  And the people who don’t like abortions should work to make them almost completely Unnecessary, not illegal. Problem is, the people who don’t like abortions also often don’t seem to like telling people how to have sex that doesn’t result in pregnancy. I was lucky, at my (protestant, church-run) private high school, they said “hold off on having sex, trust on this one, if you can’t wait, this is how to avoid STDs and Pregnancy, but we’d prefer it you waited.”

Freakingly enlightened compared to some many other schools, private Or state apparently.

]]> By: mjfgates http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451165 mjfgates Sat, 16 Jun 2012 05:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451165  EVERYBODY would welcome that.  EVERYBODY would welcome that.

]]> By: Pat Eisel http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451112 Pat Eisel Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451112 I don't know how, but I think you actually picked a couple that weren't already in the posts closer to the top.  I don’t know how, but I think you actually picked a couple that weren’t already in the posts closer to the top. 

]]> By: EH http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451105 EH Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451105 Ha ha, if there was a "male birth control thing" of ANY KIND, <i>they wouldn't be discussing it</i> because it would have already been voted on and signed into law without discussion and with full funding for free provision to all citizens upon request. Ha ha, if there was a “male birth control thing” of ANY KIND, they wouldn’t be discussing it because it would have already been voted on and signed into law without discussion and with full funding for free provision to all citizens upon request.

]]> By: EH http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451103 EH Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451103 OK, refresh my memory...which part was the "offensive statement" again? OK, refresh my memory…which part was the “offensive statement” again?

]]> By: Jonathan Roberts http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451102 Jonathan Roberts Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451102 @AvramGrumer:disqus That certainly wasn't my intention, I wrote the first comment fairly late at night and was clumsy with my terms. I'm not going to change it, because it's out there now and people have commented on it. I was also using the word 'scriptures' in the second comment to mean 'authoritative writings' rather than putting the Mishnah on the same level as the Torah. @digi_owl:disqus I think there are many progressive aspects of the Torah when you consider the context, and am definitely not trying to criticize any bronze age readers out there. @AvramGrumer:disqus That certainly wasn’t my intention, I wrote the first comment fairly late at night and was clumsy with my terms. I’m not going to change it, because it’s out there now and people have commented on it. I was also using the word ‘scriptures’ in the second comment to mean ‘authoritative writings’ rather than putting the Mishnah on the same level as the Torah. @digi_owl:disqus I think there are many progressive aspects of the Torah when you consider the context, and am definitely not trying to criticize any bronze age readers out there.

]]> By: Ladyfingers http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451072 Ladyfingers Sat, 16 Jun 2012 02:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451072  It has NOTHING on Commonwealth English. See: Roger's Profanisaurus.  It has NOTHING on Commonwealth English. See: Roger’s Profanisaurus.

]]> By: snagglepuss http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451068 snagglepuss Sat, 16 Jun 2012 01:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451068  I'm pretty sure that her statements were INTENDED to trigger the usual faux-outrage, restrictive bullshit that the GOP wallows in. Give 'em enough rope....  I’m pretty sure that her statements were INTENDED to trigger the usual faux-outrage, restrictive bullshit that the GOP wallows in. Give ‘em enough rope….

]]> By: Culturedropout http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451064 Culturedropout Sat, 16 Jun 2012 01:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451064  Can I stick my finger in it...?  Can I stick my finger in it…?

]]> By: BadIdeaSociety http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451049 BadIdeaSociety Sat, 16 Jun 2012 01:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451049 When you are fighting a legislative battle for rights, even ones that should be obvious to anybody with basic compassion, you have to avoid telling who think they are trying to rescue babies that they are trying to rape women. This shouldn't be a legislative argument anyway. The supreme court should be drawing the line on abortion. It should be legal and limitless provided the woman carrying consents to the procedure . When you are fighting a legislative battle for rights, even ones that should be obvious to anybody with basic compassion, you have to avoid telling who think they are trying to rescue babies that they are trying to rape women.

This shouldn’t be a legislative argument anyway. The supreme court should be drawing the line on abortion. It should be legal and limitless provided the woman carrying consents to the procedure .

]]> By: blueelm http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451031 blueelm Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451031 Sushi! We forgot sushi.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7606pBOZlo  Sushi! We forgot sushi. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7606pBOZlo 

]]> By: chgoliz http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451027 chgoliz Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451027 (deleted...no longer makes sense as first comment on second page with no reference to what I was responding to) (deleted…no longer makes sense as first comment on second page with no reference to what I was responding to)

]]> By: Green Ghost http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451022 Green Ghost Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451022 House floor leader Jim Stamas is from the same town, Midland, as US congressman Dave Camp, chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.  Midland is so conservative that Camp has almost never gotten less than 61% of the vote, even in 2008 (strange exception in 2004 when the data shows he ran against a Dem and a Repub - confusing). Midland is home to Dow Chemical and Dow Corning. Lots of churches and corporate types.  Dems have no chance in this district. So you don't get any moderate Repubs that have to campaign for moderate votes.  Most of the minorities in Midland are  foreign PhDs brought in to work at the Dows.  Outside of Midland its a different world - low income, low education level - Michitucky. House floor leader Jim Stamas is from the same town, Midland, as US congressman Dave Camp, chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.  Midland is so conservative that Camp has almost never gotten less than 61% of the vote, even in 2008 (strange exception in 2004 when the data shows he ran against a Dem and a Repub – confusing). Midland is home to Dow Chemical and Dow Corning. Lots of churches and corporate types.  Dems have no chance in this district. So you don’t get any moderate Repubs that have to campaign for moderate votes.  Most of the minorities in Midland are  foreign PhDs brought in to work at the Dows.  Outside of Midland its a different world – low income, low education level – Michitucky.

]]> By: Sign Ahead http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451011 Sign Ahead Fri, 15 Jun 2012 23:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451011 That's a very randy straw man you just built there. That’s a very randy straw man you just built there.

]]> By: Sign Ahead http://boingboing.net/2012/06/15/woman-legislator-in-michigan-b.html#comment-1451010 Sign Ahead Fri, 15 Jun 2012 23:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=166419#comment-1451010 Indeed. The legislature was debating the proper handling of female genitalia in their state. If they were debating the right and wrong ways to deal with male genetalia then I would be absolutely dismayed if at least one legislator didn't call them by name. Indeed.

The legislature was debating the proper handling of female genitalia in their state. If they were debating the right and wrong ways to deal with male genetalia then I would be absolutely dismayed if at least one legislator didn’t call them by name.

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