Comments on: Fight Church trailer

By: templarsmonochromata

templarsmonochromata — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:08:00 +0000

Theres validity to what you say but I feel it would weaken my case to think that violence wasn’t a bad thing. Its hard to make a ‘case’ for violence, as it exhibits a distinct lack of empathy for its victims, however justified it might claim to be. For similar reasons it is unsurprising that most of the worlds standing armies have theism as a significant component (and even if that bothers me,I understand the logic… a fanatic will likely risk more than a fence-sitter, it just makes me think that believers are perhaps vulnerable victims in their own way).
“Violence isn’t a bad thing” is not even a universal religious consensus, though some faiths do venerate it, a good test of a philosophy could be ‘what if we all had the same approach to achieving our goals?’;
It would find violence readily justified against others, surely?
Violence is as human as pacifism is; I would argue that one is more enlightened than the other however.

When animals are put in rings to fight, we can see beyond considering it ‘consensual’ and humane countries classify it as cruelty.

“Violence isn’t a bad thing” depends on if you’re the victim or not, really, doesn’t it?

By: rich

rich — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:14:00 +0000

The first rule of Fight Church is talk about Fight Church.

By: Rick Adams

Rick Adams — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:12:00 +0000

I suppose the term “fighting” can be loosely applied to any situation in which two people are hitting each other, but then do you consider boxing to be fighting? I don’t. Brutal? Sure. Violent? Absolutely. But I still consider it to be a sport. These guys who practice MMA, they like to tell themselves that they’re fighting. And sure, the skills they use apply to fighting, but there’s so much more to confrontation and struggle than just kicks and punches. Two men get into a sanctioned ring, at a pre-approved time, under a written agreement to not bite each other, punch each other directly on the glans or the back of the head. They agree not to kick each others knees out backwards or stick fingers in their eye-sockets, and all with the understanding that one will stop should the other tap their hand repeatedly. That usually has way more to do with size and strength and training than it does with learning how to respond to an infinite number of situations the world can throw at you. MMA is interesting in the sense that James mentions in the post below. Heck, Royce Gracie taught a whole generation of surprised rednecks that lying on your back and avoiding punches can actually win you a fight. But these guys in the video, they are only struggling with their desire to punch other people in the head, and win a meaningless competition. Learning how to fight is noble, and if that’s all they were doing, I don’t think they’d have a problem reconciling it with their god. Go ask a seven-year-old holding an AK-47 in Mogadishu if he thinks the guys in “The Octagon” are fighting in anything more than the sense than they’re punching each other.

By: retchdog

retchdog — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:58:00 +0000

your magical insight into other peoples’ lives is unparalleled.

By: retchdog

retchdog — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:53:00 +0000

ah, we’re down to “somewhat barbaric” now, are we? i’ll take it, but i’d call the consumption of beer somewhat barbaric as well (and i do love me some beer).

By: Navin_Johnson

Navin_Johnson — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:49:00 +0000

Again, you might want to reply to the guy that mentioned IQ, it wasn’t me. Is the sport violent and somewhat barbaric? Yup. Just own up to it…yeesh.

By: Navin_Johnson

Navin_Johnson — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:47:00 +0000

I didn’t say anything about IQ. Violent and barbaric? Check.

Also, I’m creeped out that you’ve pressured (since kindergarten as you said) your kid into pugilism.

By: retchdog

retchdog — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:47:00 +0000

my math professor is into brazilian jiu-jitsu, which imho is close enough to mma. he’s very good at both (maybe the only person in the world to both have a bjj title and have been a fellow at princeton’s institute for advanced studies…), and he considers bjj to be largely a mental discipline. i’m just throwing this out there; i really have no personal interest in any martial arts, but “barbaric” is such a loaded word. let’s remember why the greeks hated the barbarians so much: they had invented all kinds of uncivilized ways to fight against the greeks, such as the recurve bow. :)

By: James Kimbell

James Kimbell — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:03:00 +0000

I know what you mean, but a big part of MMA’s appeal is that it’s a uniquely close simulation of real fighting.

Which is a good thing and gives MMA additional value – as an ongoing experiment in what actually works when two humans fight. Before the UFC we didn’t know which martial arts could live up to their claims and which were silly. Now we know, and that’s a good thing.

By: Red Pill Junkie

Red Pill Junkie — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:57:00 +0000

They are not really Christians.

They are Manicheans. Everything is either black or white.

By: Red Pill Junkie

Red Pill Junkie — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:48:00 +0000

Yeah well, the cage had us fooled.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:00 +0000

Calling a system of hitting and kicking people an “art” while denying that it’s fighting is certainly an odd interpretation of normal English usage.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:47:00 +0000

On video?

By: Michael Lieberman

Michael Lieberman — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:31:00 +0000

I want to deconstruct this but it is so bizarrely worded it is difficult.

Two people who want to step into a cage and compete in a sport that is regulated is fine. This is not a street fight. With that said a lot of the Fight Church and similar churches fights are unsanctioned and are illegal and dangerous.

Sanctioned MMA fights are less dangerous than most other contact sports. Studies have shown time and again that MMA causes less traumatic head injuries than football.

By: Michael Lieberman

Michael Lieberman — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:15:00 +0000

It is violent, yet less people are seriously injured than most other contact sports and there have been 2 deaths in sanctioned MMA fights ever. The sport might not be for everyone, but to claim that it is barbaric is ludicrous.

By: jj

jj — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:53:00 +0000

To quote Song of Songs, chapter 7: “You are slender like a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters of fruit. I said, ‘I will climb the palm tree and take hold of its fruit.’”Biblically minded Christians are only opposed to sex OUT of wedlock.

By: Gyrofrog

Gyrofrog — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:31:00 +0000

“Your Arms (not?) Too Short to Box With God”
and from the same show…
“BEATitudes”

By: Gyrofrog

Gyrofrog — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:25:00 +0000

Yeah, that’s how it ended, with an invitation – though I recall it was at an Assembly of God church, not Baptist.

By: Rick Adams

Rick Adams — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:42:00 +0000

Mixed martial arts are not “fighting,” although they are violent, there are rules. A fight is something that can be visited on anyone, at any time, by any person, using any means that person happens to be comfortable with using. There is no such thing as fair or honorable fighting, that’s called sports.

By: Scott Rose

Scott Rose — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:23:00 +0000

They’ve already got one of those. Their Vatican branch is fairly impressive.

By: AlexG55

AlexG55 — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:30:00 +0000

Bare knuckles are actually safer in terms of brain damage. A boxing glove is heavier so accelerates the head more, and the damage is caused by the brain bouncing around inside the skull from this acceleration. Not to mention that if bare-knuckle fighters punched the way gloved boxers do (direct blows to the skull, for instance) they’d break their hands.

By: satn

satn — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:55:00 +0000

I’m not always violent. After we overthrow heaven i’ll be pretty chill.

By: satn

satn — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:53:00 +0000

Just becuase there’s an option of submission to win in MMA, unlike the ‘fight till one of you loses motor control’ of boxing, doesn’t make it safe.

Maybe safer, but not safe. Especially when kicking, kneeing and moslty bare knuckles are allowed.

It’s a new sport in the US, so there aren’t that many elderly MMA pros here to show the long term effects.

By: satn

satn — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:47:00 +0000

“Not with violence, but intimidation.”

fixed.

By: Mark Tigges

Mark Tigges — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:24:00 +0000

In general I agree with you, but, “most pros being in their late 30′s to early 40′s” is so incorrect it isn’t even within the realm of merely wrong.

There are professionals of that age, and indeed about half of the title holders are of that age, or close to it, but the majority of professionals are most definitely in their 20′s.

By: David Lavictoire

David Lavictoire — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:20:00 +0000

“whoooa the feet! the feet!”

By: Mister44

Mister44 — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:55:00 +0000

It is rare to be permanently hurt. A broken hand or leg is about the worst one can expect. But there are many, MANY more dangerous sports out there. About 2 kids a year are killed playing BASEBALL, an example that there is an inherent risk to any sport.

By: Mister44

Mister44 — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:48:00 +0000

The bible warns about drinking until you’re drunk. Let’s be honest, while being drunk can be fun, it also leads to trouble some times. Decent advice. That is the angle to oppose drugs. Doe god really care? Who knows. I would like to think there wouldn’t be an issue with something like using weed for medicine, taking narcotics for pain, etc. Recreational use, not abuse

re: “When a drug user is a criminal, but an ADMITTEDLY VIOLENT person is not, what gives? ”

Because using drugs is illegal (thought it shouldn’t be), and having two men (or women) having a refereed, consensual fight is not. Just like the violence in video games is still violence, it really hurts no one (other than the fighters, who accept that as part of the risk of fighting.)

re: “Answer me this; is a MMA fighter (perhaps especially one with a ‘God Delusion’) a danger to those around him and societey, when compared squarely with a drug Abuser? Are steroids a valid topic here?”

Yes yes, drug laws are bad. I agree. People DO get violent on some drugs. There are some MMA fighters I am sure who can’t keep their aggression in check. But just like the guy high on PCP who attacks someone doesn’t speak for the other mellow drug users, the MMA fighter who can’t keep it in the ring doesn’t speak for the rest of the sport.

Violence isn’t a bad thing. It is a very human thing. Lucky for us we have mostly reduced it to video games and consensual fights.

By: TheMudshark

TheMudshark — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:57:00 +0000

They could be doing tupperware parties in this video and it would creep me out just the same, for me it has nothing to do with fighting and everything to do with religious nutcases.

And yeah, the way MMA is presented in mass media (and, apparently, some independent media) is nothing short of ridiculous.

By: Will DAlen Rice

Will DAlen Rice — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:30:00 +0000

only people who don’t understand what is going on see it as violent and barbaric. many amateur fights end in submission, leaving both fighters no worse because of it. the truth is that boxing is the sport that ends in long term brain damage and death (boxers die every year), while MMA is safe (hence the tendency for most pros being in their late 30s to early 40s).