Comments on: Military contractor claims it can read fingerprints from 6m http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 00:19:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: SKR http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456997 SKR Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456997 oh you can change your fingerprints. all it takes is a table saw and a moment of inattention. i can't imagine it will be very popular though. oh you can change your fingerprints. all it takes is a table saw and a moment of inattention. i can’t imagine it will be very popular though.

]]> By: Roy Trumbull http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456992 Roy Trumbull Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456992 Your fingerprints start to vanish as you get older until a typical ink to paper "take" no longer works. Your fingerprints start to vanish as you get older until a typical ink to paper “take” no longer works.

]]> By: Ulrich Seibold http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456851 Ulrich Seibold Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456851 Ok, I agree with the privacy concerns and fingerprints not being as easily replaced as stolen credit cards. But let's look at some details here: The company (link to website in source post) actually claims a reading distance of more than 1.5m, 6.5ft, and up to 2m depending on what part of their website you look at. Still impressive, but not 6m.They use two 1.8 MP cameras and claim 500px/inch resolution. That would be a sensor size of something like 1550x1160 pixels. To get the resolution, the active reading area is somewhere around 3x2 inches. That combined with the fact that they use a vertically polarized filter in on one camera and a horizontally polarized filter on the other (meaning a lot of light gets lost) means that the active area is quite small and brightly illuminated. So I would conclude: Interesting? Definitely! General concerns about fingerprint technology apply! Sure! But domesday scenario for harvesting ID's from anyone passing within visual distance? Nahh, not quite there yet....  Ok, I agree with the privacy concerns and fingerprints not being as easily replaced as stolen credit cards. But let’s look at some details here:
The company (link to website in source post) actually claims a reading distance of more than 1.5m, 6.5ft, and up to 2m depending on what part of their website you look at. Still impressive, but not 6m.They use two 1.8 MP cameras and claim 500px/inch resolution. That would be a sensor size of something like 1550×1160 pixels. To get the resolution, the active reading area is somewhere around 3×2 inches. That combined with the fact that they use a vertically polarized filter in on one camera and a horizontally polarized filter on the other (meaning a lot of light gets lost) means that the active area is quite small and brightly illuminated.

So I would conclude: Interesting? Definitely! General concerns about fingerprint technology apply! Sure! But domesday scenario for harvesting ID’s from anyone passing within visual distance? Nahh, not quite there yet…. 

]]> By: townandgownie http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456818 townandgownie Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456818  I can read it from the Internet - Roosevelt on one side, flames and flowers on the other. And it's worth 10 cents as a bonus. Right?  I can read it from the Internet – Roosevelt on one side, flames and flowers on the other. And it’s worth 10 cents as a bonus. Right?

]]> By: townandgownie http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456817 townandgownie Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456817  Even if they are not unique, the identification process to match fingerprints is hardly the "hard science" which the average person thinks it is. Fingerprint matching is a very subjective science - while computers may be used to provide a probability or potential candidates, a definitive pronouncement for legal purposes requires a human operator with all the potential for mistake and prejudice that is usually accompanied by human operators.  Even if they are not unique, the identification process to match fingerprints is hardly the “hard science” which the average person thinks it is. Fingerprint matching is a very subjective science – while computers may be used to provide a probability or potential candidates, a definitive pronouncement for legal purposes requires a human operator with all the potential for mistake and prejudice that is usually accompanied by human operators.

]]> By: Chris Wright http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456814 Chris Wright Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456814 Even if they had a cheap and easy way to read fingerprints off people in passing, and even if it were easy to connect those fingerprints to someone's ID, what makes you think that we'd stop using fingerprints for ID? It would be the sane and sensible course of action, surely. But since when does that matter? Even if they had a cheap and easy way to read fingerprints off people in passing, and even if it were easy to connect those fingerprints to someone’s ID, what makes you think that we’d stop using fingerprints for ID?

It would be the sane and sensible course of action, surely. But since when does that matter?

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456804 Nathan Hornby Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456804 Heh, I read that as 6 millimetres for some reason, and so was suitably impressed when I realised it was 6 meters. Heh, I read that as 6 millimetres for some reason, and so was suitably impressed when I realised it was 6 meters.

]]> By: Stephen Nowicki http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456741 Stephen Nowicki Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456741 At least in the case of an social security number, it is something that exists in memory, or at the very worst as a card to be kept in a wallet.  Hanging data on something that is not only exposed for all to see, and which leaves impressions of itself on everything you touch seems like an immensely bad idea.That is, unless you are in the pocket of the glove lobby....  At least in the case of an social security number, it is something that exists in memory, or at the very worst as a card to be kept in a wallet. 

Hanging data on something that is not only exposed for all to see, and which leaves impressions of itself on everything you touch seems like an immensely bad idea.That is, unless you are in the pocket of the glove lobby…. 

]]> By: Frederik http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456691 Frederik Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456691 Myth busted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAfAVGES-Yc  Myth busted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAfAVGES-Yc 

]]> By: zarray http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456686 zarray Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456686 Well if I'm being watched they better prepare for a lot of nude crying.  Well if I’m being watched they better prepare for a lot of nude crying. 

]]> By: SmokingHeartDesigns http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456685 SmokingHeartDesigns Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456685  Or have they?  Or have they?

]]> By: zarray http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456683 zarray Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456683 Too bad they haven't figure out a way to defeat the common roof.  Too bad they haven’t figure out a way to defeat the common roof. 

]]> By: Ian Wood http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456675 Ian Wood Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456675 No, it really isn't. The question is whether the identity-conscious class can make fingerprints obsolete as a mechanism of identification. Which I suspect they can, with ease. I can think of three ways to do it, right now, and I'm not especially clever. Problem solved. More importantly? Story element made ridiculous. Don't do it, man. No, it really isn’t. The question is whether the identity-conscious class can make fingerprints obsolete as a mechanism of identification. Which I suspect they can, with ease. I can think of three ways to do it, right now, and I’m not especially clever.

Problem solved.

More importantly? Story element made ridiculous. Don’t do it, man.

]]> By: SmokingHeartDesigns http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456674 SmokingHeartDesigns Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456674 Military satellites can read a dime from low Earth orbit. Military satellites can read a dime from low Earth orbit.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456668 Antinous / Moderator Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456668 Because seeing Laurence Fishburne's pores on an IMAX screen wasn't enough of a life lesson. Because seeing Laurence Fishburne’s pores on an IMAX screen wasn’t enough of a life lesson.

]]> By: Ian Wood http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456669 Ian Wood Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456669  THAT'S HOW YOU KNEW HE BELIEVED shut up  THAT’S HOW YOU KNEW HE BELIEVED shut up

]]> By: Ian Wood http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456667 Ian Wood Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456667 Well I've spent some quality bloody time with a belt sander, Cory, so you can take yer paranoia and stuff it. Or sand it. Whatever your needs are, really. Well I’ve spent some quality bloody time with a belt sander, Cory, so you can take yer paranoia and stuff it.

Or sand it.

Whatever your needs are, really.

]]> By: greggman http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456663 greggman Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456663 Frontline claims fingerprints are not unique and that most forensic "science" is bunk. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/real-csi/ Frontline claims fingerprints are not unique and that most forensic “science” is bunk.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/real-csi/

]]> By: Fef http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456658 Fef Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456658 How soon  'til we get that resolution for our TVs? Should make the red carpet part of Oscar Night that much more special. How soon  ’til we get that resolution for our TVs?
Should make the red carpet part of Oscar Night that much more special.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456654 Antinous / Moderator Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456654 <a href="http://www.amazon.com/White-Lintless-Lightweight-Cotton-Gloves/dp/B006MZNF36" rel="nofollow">Mischief managed.</a> Mischief managed.

]]> By: JoeP http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456652 JoeP Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456652 A lot of the 'finger-print' technology is actually based on emission points within the finger, so stealing someone's finger print off of a whiskey or water glass would be relatively pointless. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_vein_recognition I suppose your data could be stolen up to 10 times before you run out of new sources of authentication.  A lot of the ‘finger-print’ technology is actually based on emission points within the finger, so stealing someone’s finger print off of a whiskey or water glass would be relatively pointless. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_vein_recognition I suppose your data could be stolen up to 10 times before you run out of new sources of authentication. 

]]> By: Cory Doctorow http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456641 Cory Doctorow Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456641  The question isn't whether you can copy someone else's prints - but whehter you can copy them well enough to fool a machine at 6m distance.  The question isn’t whether you can copy someone else’s prints – but whehter you can copy them well enough to fool a machine at 6m distance.

]]> By: Marc Mielke http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456627 Marc Mielke Sat, 23 Jun 2012 03:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456627 Can't effectively ban technology once its already out there. More likely this just makes fingerprint identification less useful. Not completely useless, as copying another persons prints is not completely trivial. An impersonator requires access to this technology, which isn't completely available, the know how to do this, and the forethought to impersonate a particular person. This is a supervillain-scale level of criminal enterprise compared to the less complicated wearing friggin' gloves.  Can’t effectively ban technology once its already out there. More likely this just makes fingerprint identification less useful. Not completely useless, as copying another persons prints is not completely trivial.

An impersonator requires access to this technology, which isn’t completely available, the know how to do this, and the forethought to impersonate a particular person. This is a supervillain-scale level of criminal enterprise compared to the less complicated wearing friggin’ gloves. 

]]> By: Sergei Richard http://boingboing.net/2012/06/22/military-contractor-claims-it.html#comment-1456612 Sergei Richard Sat, 23 Jun 2012 03:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=167290#comment-1456612 An existing technology can resolve fingerprints over enormous distances of space and indeed time. All it requires is something you once touched! We should probably ban that. An existing technology can resolve fingerprints over enormous distances of space and indeed time. All it requires is something you once touched!

We should probably ban that.

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