Comments on: Meet the legions of wingnuts who think Andy Griffith was a communist and want him to burn in hell http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:33:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: AnthonyC http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468227 AnthonyC Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468227 I don't have a strong opinion on this point either way, but I have read (don't recall where, sorry, but it was a source I remember trusting) that when people get higher socioeconomic status they become more selfish and self-absorbed I don’t have a strong opinion on this point either way, but I have read (don’t recall where, sorry, but it was a source I remember trusting) that when people get higher socioeconomic status they become more selfish and self-absorbed

]]> By: ElRonbo http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468220 ElRonbo Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468220 Ironic that this appeared on The Blaze, since Griffith starred in the prescient Glenn Beck biopic "A Face in the Crowd" Ironic that this appeared on The Blaze, since Griffith starred in the prescient Glenn Beck biopic “A Face in the Crowd”

]]> By: AnthonyC http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468203 AnthonyC Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468203 Which is probably why Romney and Gingrich wrote this law in 2006 and 1994, respectively. All the methods that solve that problem involve either government-as-single-payer, reforming insurance companies as non-profits, eliminating the fee-for-service system, or a few other ideas that had absolutely no chance of becoming law. If there is a long-term political logic to it (there may not be), I would guess it's that once 30 million more people have health insurance, they're likely to fight to keep it and be willing to make more fundamental changes to do so. Which is probably why Romney and Gingrich wrote this law in 2006 and 1994, respectively.

All the methods that solve that problem involve either government-as-single-payer, reforming insurance companies as non-profits, eliminating the fee-for-service system, or a few other ideas that had absolutely no chance of becoming law.

If there is a long-term political logic to it (there may not be), I would guess it’s that once 30 million more people have health insurance, they’re likely to fight to keep it and be willing to make more fundamental changes to do so.

]]> By: Nonentity http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468187 Nonentity Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468187  <i>"Prez's point is: bigotry and prejudice grow up on both sides of the tracks.</i> If that were his point, there wouldn't be any point posting about it.  His point was that there is *equivalent* prejudice on both sides, and there seems to be an odd lack of evidence to support that.  “Prez’s point is: bigotry and prejudice grow up on both sides of the tracks.

If that were his point, there wouldn’t be any point posting about it.  His point was that there is *equivalent* prejudice on both sides, and there seems to be an odd lack of evidence to support that.

]]> By: austinhamman http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468184 austinhamman Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468184  no socialized military is fine; police, firefighters, and teachers are being regularly cut so the tax money that funds them can go to large corporations (this strange sense that the very wealthy are the "job creators" and we must present offerings to appease them so they will deign to give us jobs) and the police, firefighters, and schools are moving to a for-profit system (even the military is being run largely through third party companies. not just making weapons and guns, but intelligence even soldiers are coming from third party for-profit companies) so at least they are consistent, they want everything to be for-profit: schools, the military, the roads, police, firefighters, they want the government to do nothing but funnel tax money to corporations in exchange for campaign money or out right bribes. and they are getting it.  no socialized military is fine; police, firefighters, and teachers are being regularly cut so the tax money that funds them can go to large corporations (this strange sense that the very wealthy are the “job creators” and we must present offerings to appease them so they will deign to give us jobs) and the police, firefighters, and schools are moving to a for-profit system (even the military is being run largely through third party companies. not just making weapons and guns, but intelligence even soldiers are coming from third party for-profit companies)
so at least they are consistent, they want everything to be for-profit: schools, the military, the roads, police, firefighters, they want the government to do nothing but funnel tax money to corporations in exchange for campaign money or out right bribes. and they are getting it.

]]> By: Navin_Johnson http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468175 Navin_Johnson Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468175 <i>Our representatives in the government need to respect their opposition, agree to disagree, and relearn the skill of compromise. Our nation was founded on compromise. We will certainly fail with out it.</i> Barack, is that you? There has been loads of compromise lately!  All of it on the "left" side of our political system unfortunately. There's been plenty of niceness and compromise, and guess what? It's not respected or reciprocated by the ones who've enjoyed it. MLK : http://allisonkilkenny.com/2011/01/mlk-on-moderates/ JFK/Dante: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Ready-Reference/~/link.aspx?_id=4099B66534F44DAFAC5303C26D9C7977&_z=z Our representatives in the government need to respect their opposition, agree to disagree, and relearn the skill of compromise. Our nation was founded on compromise. We will certainly fail with out it.

Barack, is that you?

There has been loads of compromise lately!  All of it on the “left” side of our political system unfortunately. There’s been plenty of niceness and compromise, and guess what? It’s not respected or reciprocated by the ones who’ve enjoyed it.

MLK :
http://allisonkilkenny.com/2011/01/mlk-on-moderates/

JFK/Dante: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Ready-Reference/~/link.aspx?_id=4099B66534F44DAFAC5303C26D9C7977&_z=z

]]> By: ethanwc http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468173 ethanwc Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468173 Some people are just better left ignored. Some people are just better left ignored.

]]> By: Colin Curry http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468161 Colin Curry Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468161 Also speaking as a Canadian, what Americans have isn't universal healthcare - it forces them to buy insurance from private insurers and get care from private hospitals. While there are provisions - people can't be refused insurance - there is no guarantee that subsidies to those with low incomes will be continued into the future. As hospitals are private, their #1 motive is profit, and the law does little from preventing costs from skyrocketing. It doesn't prevent a two tier system where people who can afford it jump the queue for treatment. Our system may not be perfect, but it does a far better job of containing costs and it provides fair and equal access to everyone. Also speaking as a Canadian, what Americans have isn’t universal healthcare – it forces them to buy insurance from private insurers and get care from private hospitals. While there are provisions – people can’t be refused insurance – there is no guarantee that subsidies to those with low incomes will be continued into the future. As hospitals are private, their #1 motive is profit, and the law does little from preventing costs from skyrocketing. It doesn’t prevent a two tier system where people who can afford it jump the queue for treatment.

Our system may not be perfect, but it does a far better job of containing costs and it provides fair and equal access to everyone.

]]> By: joshpowers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468157 joshpowers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468157 Great post Matt. Good analysis of how these discussions tend to spiral in a negative direction. Thoughtful responses require effort, and I guess most people just don't think it's worth the effort. Everything you said was correct, but here is one thing with even greater effectiveness towards these people (or anybody): kindness. It's always in short supply on both sides of a disagreement, and it's the most powerful weapon you have in bridging a gap. Great post Matt. Good analysis of how these discussions tend to spiral in a negative direction. Thoughtful responses require effort, and I guess most people just don’t think it’s worth the effort. Everything you said was correct, but here is one thing with even greater effectiveness towards these people (or anybody): kindness. It’s always in short supply on both sides of a disagreement, and it’s the most powerful weapon you have in bridging a gap.

]]> By: Colin Curry http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468143 Colin Curry Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468143 I agree with two of your points - that this isn't universal healthcare and that mislabeling something makes it harder to fix. I'm not sure that fascism aligns easily with either end of the liberal-conservative spectrum though. I agree with two of your points – that this isn’t universal healthcare and that mislabeling something makes it harder to fix. I’m not sure that fascism aligns easily with either end of the liberal-conservative spectrum though.

]]> By: Navin_Johnson http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468145 Navin_Johnson Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468145  The left is gung-ho about single payer, but this will still help a shitload of people in the meantime.   The left is gung-ho about single payer, but this will still help a shitload of people in the meantime. 

]]> By: AnthonyC http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468142 AnthonyC Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468142 Yes, I have, and it went nowhere. Reason and rationality had little enough to do with generating their ideas in the first place. Why should they play a role in changing them? Yes, I have, and it went nowhere. Reason and rationality had little enough to do with generating their ideas in the first place. Why should they play a role in changing them?

]]> By: joshpowers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468136 joshpowers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468136 First: everyone is biased. Don't trust any news agency that claims to be free from all bias. (Ahem "fair and balanced".) Second: this is turning petty. Prez's point is: bigotry and prejudice grow up on both sides of the tracks. It's found both among the ignorant and uneducated, and among the privileged, savvy, and hip. All colors, creeds, and political credos have it. If you don't see them when you look in the mirror, be grateful. Or, look closer. We are all far more susceptible to these things than we care to admit, and it might make us more careful before we judge. "Judge not lest.." I'm not condoning the vitreol; I'm just saying, they were posted by clearly ignorant people. More privileged society is better at concealing their prejudices. The nastiness of a comment reflects the ignorance of the author, and ignorance is a sad thing. But that's only ONE facet in which prejudice is put on display, and an obvious one at that, and particularly easy to target. A little perception will reveal that it IS as universal as Prez is arguing for. First: everyone is biased. Don’t trust any news agency that claims to be free from all bias. (Ahem “fair and balanced”.)

Second: this is turning petty. Prez’s point is: bigotry and prejudice grow up on both sides of the tracks. It’s found both among the ignorant and uneducated, and among the privileged, savvy, and hip. All colors, creeds, and political credos have it. If you don’t see them when you look in the mirror, be grateful. Or, look closer. We are all far more susceptible to these things than we care to admit, and it might make us more careful before we judge. “Judge not lest..” I’m not condoning the vitreol; I’m just saying, they were posted by clearly ignorant people. More privileged society is better at concealing their prejudices. The nastiness of a comment reflects the ignorance of the author, and ignorance is a sad thing. But that’s only ONE facet in which prejudice is put on display, and an obvious one at that, and particularly easy to target. A little perception will reveal that it IS as universal as Prez is arguing for.

]]> By: SamSam http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468134 SamSam Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468134 You missed the part of dragonfrog's comment where it was noted that liberals did <i>not</i> spew vile hatred after Heston's death. You missed the part of dragonfrog’s comment where it was noted that liberals did not spew vile hatred after Heston’s death.

]]> By: Colin Curry http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468123 Colin Curry Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468123 What I really find curious is how gung-ho the left is about this solution. I guess it beats what was there before, but I fail to see how funneling money into private health insurance and private hospitals is anything but state sponsored capitalism. It's wasteful and inefficient - it doesn't remove the profit motive so costs will continue to spiral out of control. What I really find curious is how gung-ho the left is about this solution. I guess it beats what was there before, but I fail to see how funneling money into private health insurance and private hospitals is anything but state sponsored capitalism. It’s wasteful and inefficient – it doesn’t remove the profit motive so costs will continue to spiral out of control.

]]> By: Wreckrob8 http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468117 Wreckrob8 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468117 This sort of behaviour results from a mixture of fear (which people across the political spectrum suffer), UNsublimated anger directed towards individuals and inarticulacy. The problem for the left is to sublimate their anger and direct it towards causes. If the left can no longer communicate this then maybe both sides have lost the plot (temporarily). This sort of behaviour results from a mixture of fear (which people across the political spectrum suffer), UNsublimated anger directed towards individuals and inarticulacy. The problem for the left is to sublimate their anger and direct it towards causes. If the left can no longer communicate this then maybe both sides have lost the plot (temporarily).

]]> By: Red Pill Junkie http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468097 Red Pill Junkie Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468097  Whoa whoa whoa! slow down there, professor. So what is this 'logic' you speakin' of? ;)  Whoa whoa whoa! slow down there, professor.

So what is this ‘logic’ you speakin’ of?

;)

]]> By: scatterfingers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468078 scatterfingers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468078  I used to be a libertarian. Good times. I'm now a semi-free-market socialist with libertarian leanings.  I used to be a libertarian. Good times. I’m now a semi-free-market socialist with libertarian leanings.

]]> By: joshpowers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468080 joshpowers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468080 Can you elaborate? My experiences contradict this (and I have met some VERY hateful and prejudiced people). I can't prove this, but I'd bet my savings that ignorance, lack of education, and extreme bigotry have an incredibly strong correlation. But I'd love to see an article that proves otherwise along the lines of what you're saying.  Can you elaborate? My experiences contradict this (and I have met some VERY hateful and prejudiced people). I can’t prove this, but I’d bet my savings that ignorance, lack of education, and extreme bigotry have an incredibly strong correlation. But I’d love to see an article that proves otherwise along the lines of what you’re saying. 

]]> By: scatterfingers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468077 scatterfingers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468077  Socialised anything that we're used to is fine. This is, after all, what conservatism, is, right?  Socialised anything that we’re used to is fine. This is, after all, what conservatism, is, right?

]]> By: scatterfingers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468075 scatterfingers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468075 That's absurd. That’s absurd.

]]> By: joshpowers http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468069 joshpowers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468069 Non-sequitor. What is the connection between religion and this news article? I believe the comments posted in the article represent a very culturally narrow segment of society found only in the United States. Non-sequitor. What is the connection between religion and this news article? I believe the comments posted in the article represent a very culturally narrow segment of society found only in the United States.

]]> By: Avram Grumer http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468058 Avram Grumer Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468058 Heston slumbers beneath Liberty Island; while the seagulls still circle, his time is not yet come. One day shall he awaken to save us from soylent cannibals and damn dirty apes.  Heston slumbers beneath Liberty Island; while the seagulls still circle, his time is not yet come. One day shall he awaken to save us from soylent cannibals and damn dirty apes. 

]]> By: IRMO http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468050 IRMO Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468050 Care to visit Democratic Underground?  Care to visit Democratic Underground? 

]]> By: Sylvain Menouillard http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468042 Sylvain Menouillard Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468042 Same thing here. I'm trying to find what I'm missing but I can't... Same thing here. I’m trying to find what I’m missing but I can’t…

]]> By: Avram Grumer http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468043 Avram Grumer Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468043 "Wingnut" used properly refers only to extreme partisans of the right. Extreme partisans of the left are "moonbats".  “Wingnut” used properly refers only to extreme partisans of the right. Extreme partisans of the left are “moonbats”. 

]]> By: hungryjoe http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468039 hungryjoe Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468039 I'll take a Death Panel over an actuary any day. I’ll take a Death Panel over an actuary any day.

]]> By: IRMO http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468028 IRMO Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468028 I'll give you a counter-example: the writers and commenters at The Exiled are particularly vituperative about people they  decide to put on their enemies list, and particularly gleefull when a man on their list dies. And you don't have to be Andrew Breitbart to get on the Exiled's list.  I’ll give you a counter-example: the writers and commenters at The Exiled are particularly vituperative about people they  decide to put on their enemies list, and particularly gleefull when a man on their list dies. And you don’t have to be Andrew Breitbart to get on the Exiled’s list. 

]]> By: Navin_Johnson http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468019 Navin_Johnson Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468019 It's <a href="http://exiledonline.com/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and it's a wonderful little hive. It’s here and it’s a wonderful little hive.

]]> By: Ryan Lenethen http://boingboing.net/2012/07/05/meet-the-legions-of-wignuts-wh.html#comment-1468004 Ryan Lenethen Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=169389#comment-1468004  Yet Toronto also democratically elected both Mel Lastman and Ford... :)  Yet Toronto also democratically elected both Mel Lastman and Ford… :)

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