But that doesn’t change that people were attacking him not for what he actually said and was arguing, but the sentiment behind it (as you say) and it’s that sentiment that I think was being misunderstood. He tried to explain it himself, unsuccessfully, by pointing out that he has two daughters who he hopes will enjoy video games.

I had to look up JAQing off, I like that. It’s appropriate here because the discussion he was trying to raise is inappropriate for this particular conversation, though, not because those questions should not be raised at all.

To clarify my own position for posterity: I wish that misogyny and any deep-seated or even subconscious anti-female sentiment in games, and in the people who play games, would die off fifteen years ago. Not to mention the rampant general assholeism among gamers. Among more important things, this would make gaming more pleasant for everyone, non-asshole males included, so this should be high on the agenda for anyone interested in gaming.

As Mistwolf said, fucking context, how does it work?

Her Kickstarter Project is an extension of an earlier project, one that already exists as six videos about tropes in movies and TV. Both projects are called “Tropes vs. Women” because the argument isn’t that one industry is more sexist than another, but that tropes in general are a bad thing, and exist far too often. You clearly don’t know this part. You didn’t watch the video. 

You’re being criticized because even though you have the link to the video, and understand what kind of turmoil has come about from this topic, you haven’t bothered to take the time to inform yourself before getting heavily involved in the discussion. Not only that, you’re making claims about the outcome of a project you don’t understand. So you don’t know what you’re talking about, but you’re talking just the same. 

From your own discussion: ”Video Games and the industry is sexist toward women.  The end.”  

That’s plenty to tell me (and anyone else who actually watched the video, and understood the project) that you are in the dark. The project isn’t specifically about sexism in just the gaming industry. It’s about tropes, and they pop up all over the place. Here’s one of the existing videos #1 Manic Pixie Dream Girl. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqJUxqkcnKA  

Don’t believe it’s a trope? Don’t believe it’s gone too far? Enjoy a visit to the State Home for Manic Pixie Dream Girls. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBNss2PMj60  

There’s a very big difference between attacking tropes and attacking gaming. I’ve posted twice (and hope those in charge at bb will bear with me as I once more post) the link to the Zelda shirt that proudly proclaims, “This Princess SAVES HERSELF”. Zelda is an example of a gaming trope that’s not doing too well these days. With lots of teen girls actively gaming, they don’t want to be a princess who sits in a tower waiting for a boy to rescue her. They want a part of the action, too. It doesn’t ever kill an industry to expand (or at least acknowledge) its fan base.  

http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Princess-Herself-Juniors-T-Shirt/dp/B003GX6HPK

Please. They’re white, they’re male, they’re mostly straight and cisgendered, they’re mostly able-bodied. If being at the supposed bottom of the social totem pole in high school didn’t teach them empathy, they can go fuck themselves.

BTW, they certainly weren’t the only ones bullied at school. And if “females” (ugh) reject them, maybe they should, you know, examine the common denominator in each of those interactions. (If a woman were being rejected by every man she met, I suspect your advice to her would be to “fix herself” in some way.)

Matt: “The first sentence of your post seems intent on intimidating me on a personal level.” Cry harder. You may think you’ve been polite throughout this discussion. JAQing off isn’t polite.

So what? You don’t get to define what’s a game and what isn’t based on your personal experiences. Or preferences.

“I’m sorry but females at the arcade was a rarity, and I mean REALLY rare.”

First of all, don’t call us “females.” That’s dehumanizing. The correct term is “woman” if she’s 18 or older, “girl” if younger.

Second, I can’t imagine why a woman or girl wouldn’t want to physically hang around a bunch of men and boys who’d consider her to be “intruding” on “their” territory, as the internet misogynists consider Sarkeesian to be “intruding” on “theirs.”

Massive outpouring of misogyny on the internet? “Well, of course I don’t support that, but MAH HYPOTHETICAL SITCH-UU-ASHUN IS WHAT’S IMPORTANT!!”

As for “hours played,” maybe if women didn’t have to still do most of the childcare and housework, and maybe if we didn’t still lag men in lifelong earnings, we’d have more spare time to play games.

That it’s a different story in mobile is no surprise either… most mobile games are very friendly and not teen-male-centric, which is a very good thing, but not an argument against the reality of the video game market as a whole.

I think you’re missing mattmc13′s point – which is not anti-female-gamers in any way – and your numbers are not that strong of an argument.

I stopped regularly playing online games years ago because most players are assholes, and I’m male. I don’t want to have to deal with that crap and it should be no surprise that females don’t either, especially when it’s targeted at them. As I said in another comment it’s a chicken/egg or catch-22 problem but not looking at the situation realistically and cherry-picking statistics doesn’t help.

FWIW I do understand your arguments and (mostly) agree with you. I don’t doubt though that the attention this is getting (and the attention that the resulting new videos might get) will do some good at bringing the seemingly obvious problems here to broader light. It’s a decent step toward improving the situation, and who knows, with that much money hopefully she’ll be able to do a lot more than she initially intended.

And unlike the others, I know that you’re not saying there’s nothing that needs to be improved even if you’re right that there aren’t as many female gamers as people say. I really don’t know how anyone can be so fervent in saying that there really is a near-50/50 mix because there’s no way that’s true.

Of course, one of the obvious reasons that it isn’t true is because misogyny is still rampant in the games themselves and in the other players of the games, which creates a very hostile environment (it is slightly better in certain games where there is actually a high percentage of female players, including WoW which I’ve never played). I’m not sure what it will take to change this… it’s a chicken/egg or catch-22 type of problem.

Sigh. So it only matters how human beings are portrayed if they are spending enough MONEY on games to reach a threshold you deem acceptable? Do you even hear yourself? Sexism and objectification of human beings is harmful to human beings, regardless of which gender is the primary consumer of the objectification.

But in any case, in our house, I’m actually more of a gamer than my husband. I am the one who talked him into playing World of Warcraft because I like it. I have more mounts, better gear, and more achievements than he does. Yeah, I said it, I’m better at WoW than he is. He’s better at console games than I am. He grew up playing Sega and Nintendo, while I grew up with two computer programmer parents.

Guess who bought the collector’s edition and who bought the regular edition of the first expansion we played? I got the CE, which is about $30 more than the regular.  The plural of anecdote is not data, but I am positive our household cannot be the ONLY one where the female gamer partner directs how much of the household budget goes to game-related purchases.

What could probably have stopped some of this madness would be the explanation that a lot of people missed out on just by not watching the video associated with the Kickstarter campaign.

It’s pretty simple: This isn’t Sarkeesian’s first “Tropes vs. Women” video series. The first six-part series is already up and viewable on YouTube and covers female Tropes in TV and Movies. No one threatened her for explaining the Smurfette Syndrome.

She’s not attacking the gaming industry, or singling it out as being more sexist than other industries. That’s not even the point. What she’s discussing is the hazard of tropes in various forms of media. Video games are just the most recent form, and she actually has a point. 

The gaming industry has long ignored women both as developers and consumers. Even though we’ve been there, we’ve been invisible, but things have been changing. Enough girls are playing and working in the gaming industry that we really can’t be ignored anymore, and there’s plenty of evidence. One trope Sarkeesian intends to examine is Zelda, the princess who does nothing while a boy comes to rescue her. That’s not good enough for today’s gaming girl. Now if you go shopping online, you can find advertisements for teen-sized tshirts that say “This Princess SAVES HERSELF!” At least in the eyes of girl gamers, it’s not enough to wait in a castle anymore. For them, that trope is dead.

http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Princess-Herself-Juniors-T-Shirt/dp/B003GX6HPK

Addendum #1:

This project does not constitute an attack on Anita Sarkeesian, nor should it be seen as a response to her work! Anita has done an amazing job, and it’s really incredible to see so many people stand up for more diverse video games.

While our campaign may tread upon similar lines, we have no intention of encroaching upon Feminist Frequency’s work, and urge you all whole-heartedly to head on over to http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games to find out more. To Anita and her supporters we’d like to extend our warmest congratulations for smashing targets in such fantastic style, and we can’t wait to see her upcoming work!

[....]

Here are some examples of what [our] topics may involve: (this is an incomplete and non-final list, as research is still ongoing!)
Tropes

The Musclebeast: Why are all men 7 foot roided up killing machines?
Mr Emotionless McStonefaced
Cannon Fodder
The Fat Comedic Sidekick
Men Are Always The Heroic Ones: Pressuring modern day men into being heroic alpha males. This potentially sets a standard men can’t obtain.
The “Average Joe” As The Bad Guy, And The “Macho Man” As The Hero. (Granted a less harmful industry standard, but the alternatives could be extremely interesting.)
Men As Sex Symbols
Double Standards – Why is it okay to see women killing men, yet the other way around is met with criticism?
Sexuality Stereotypes or “All Gay Men Are Flamboyant” – Or a gay man’s sexuality is his entire character!: At the risk of opening a whole new can of worms, it’d be nice to see sexuality expressed in a more natural, less forced manner.

Now of course, several of these apply just as equally to female characters, but as stated before we’ll leave the bulk of the female perspective to dedicated people such as Anita Sarkeesian, so be sure to check out her work!

And by NO MEANS are we decrying stereotypes as harmful on their own merit. After all, a huge number of great, genre-defining games rely on them, and are indeed made great BECAUSE of the use of over-the-top clichés. (And with games being fantasy, rightly so!) The biggest problem lies with over-use of such tropes, and the resultant lack of imagination in a medium that is all about exciting, unique ideas.