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	<title>Comments on: Crackpots, geniuses, and how to tell the&#160;difference</title>
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		<title>By: Bill Beaty</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1477501</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 08:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1477501</guid>
		<description> Hmm.  That would also point out a possibility of the most dangerous crackpots of all: the ones who are genuinely insane, but have developed the trick of remaining steadfastly reasonable and self-critical, and never yelling in all-caps Help Help, I&#039;m being repressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Hmm.  That would also point out a possibility of the most dangerous crackpots of all: the ones who are genuinely insane, but have developed the trick of remaining steadfastly reasonable and self-critical, and never yelling in all-caps Help Help, I&#8217;m being repressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Beaty</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1477500</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 08:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1477500</guid>
		<description>Was Einstein *not* a lone revolutionary? (i.e. didn&#039;t he have new ideas blindsiding the entire community?)  The evidence looks quite strong that he actually was, and anything different itself may be attempts at myth-making.

Actually this messes with the minds of the crackpot community, since half want to include Einstein as a fellow maverick outsider, while the other half wants to attack him as being wrong.

:)

Were Einstein&#039;s ideas taken up by the community almost immediately, without objections?  Nope.  The switchover from Newtonian mechanics and aether-belief and the acceptance of SR took far longer than you think.  Clarke&#039;s First Law is no joke.  True, the cleaned-up mythical history found widely in pop culture and in grade school textbooks makes it appear that the Aether supporters vanished without a fight, and that Einstein was welcomed by all, with no raging controversy, no anti-Einstein petitions being circulated by enemy groups.  Yet in fact his work was revolutionary enough to inspire decades of widespread controversy, not a rapid and silent acceptance.  If you go try digging dirt on how the research community actually responded to Einstein, you&#039;ll find quite a bit more there than is commonly discussed.  I suspect it&#039;s the George Washington cherry tree effect:  the usual historical dirt seems to mysteriously vanish when it involves tarnishing all of our glowing descriptions of Science we learned early on.

So, which one is the myth: that SR, photons, etc. were easily and quickly accepted by the physics community, while aether supporters didn&#039;t fight?    Or was it that SR etc. only won out after decades of major mud-slinging battle and putting rout to a large population of hot-headed enemies?  Perhaps the sources claiming the latter were just wrongly exaggerating the &quot;embattled revolutionary&quot; aspect.  Maybe the ones claiming the former are trying to paint a sanitized (mythical!) picture of a Science which never irrationally resists any revolutionary ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was Einstein *not* a lone revolutionary? (i.e. didn&#8217;t he have new ideas blindsiding the entire community?)  The evidence looks quite strong that he actually was, and anything different itself may be attempts at myth-making.</p>
<p>Actually this messes with the minds of the crackpot community, since half want to include Einstein as a fellow maverick outsider, while the other half wants to attack him as being wrong.</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Were Einstein&#8217;s ideas taken up by the community almost immediately, without objections?  Nope.  The switchover from Newtonian mechanics and aether-belief and the acceptance of SR took far longer than you think.  Clarke&#8217;s First Law is no joke.  True, the cleaned-up mythical history found widely in pop culture and in grade school textbooks makes it appear that the Aether supporters vanished without a fight, and that Einstein was welcomed by all, with no raging controversy, no anti-Einstein petitions being circulated by enemy groups.  Yet in fact his work was revolutionary enough to inspire decades of widespread controversy, not a rapid and silent acceptance.  If you go try digging dirt on how the research community actually responded to Einstein, you&#8217;ll find quite a bit more there than is commonly discussed.  I suspect it&#8217;s the George Washington cherry tree effect:  the usual historical dirt seems to mysteriously vanish when it involves tarnishing all of our glowing descriptions of Science we learned early on.</p>
<p>So, which one is the myth: that SR, photons, etc. were easily and quickly accepted by the physics community, while aether supporters didn&#8217;t fight?    Or was it that SR etc. only won out after decades of major mud-slinging battle and putting rout to a large population of hot-headed enemies?  Perhaps the sources claiming the latter were just wrongly exaggerating the &#8220;embattled revolutionary&#8221; aspect.  Maybe the ones claiming the former are trying to paint a sanitized (mythical!) picture of a Science which never irrationally resists any revolutionary ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Specker</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1477397</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Specker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 03:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1477397</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s how my personal crackpot detector works.

If the person I&#039;m dealing with says &quot;No one else understands my genius/The truth is being suppressed&quot;, that person is almost always a crackpot.

If they say &quot;Think about this for a bit and tell me if it still sounds like a crackpot idea&quot;, they may just be a genius.
It&#039;s not 100% perfect, but you&#039;ll be amazed how far it can get you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s how my personal crackpot detector works.</p>
<p>If the person I&#8217;m dealing with says &#8220;No one else understands my genius/The truth is being suppressed&#8221;, that person is almost always a crackpot.</p>
<p>If they say &#8220;Think about this for a bit and tell me if it still sounds like a crackpot idea&#8221;, they may just be a genius.<br />
It&#8217;s not 100% perfect, but you&#8217;ll be amazed how far it can get you.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim_Buck_II</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1477105</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim_Buck_II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1477105</guid>
		<description>Still, Professor Langley&#039;s plane fell into the Potomac just before the bicycle mechanics&#039; plane lifted off.  

A perfectly absurd looking Swiss patent clerk came up with Special Relativity.  

The article mentions the Loch Ness Monster as an example of a crackpot notion because, obviously, it&#039;s absurd to think there might be living dinosaurs.  That notion becomes just a little less silly after a coelacanth swims by.

It&#039;s hard to guess who will have the next flash of insight or where it will come from.   Today&#039;s orthodoxy will be tomorrow&#039;s dogma.  &quot;A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of the little mind.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, Professor Langley&#8217;s plane fell into the Potomac just before the bicycle mechanics&#8217; plane lifted off.  </p>
<p>A perfectly absurd looking Swiss patent clerk came up with Special Relativity.  </p>
<p>The article mentions the Loch Ness Monster as an example of a crackpot notion because, obviously, it&#8217;s absurd to think there might be living dinosaurs.  That notion becomes just a little less silly after a coelacanth swims by.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to guess who will have the next flash of insight or where it will come from.   Today&#8217;s orthodoxy will be tomorrow&#8217;s dogma.  &#8220;A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of the little mind.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476841</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476841</guid>
		<description> Also, wikipedia.  Though I don&#039;t think they do it on purpose most times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Also, wikipedia.  Though I don&#8217;t think they do it on purpose most times.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476839</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476839</guid>
		<description> This is a wonderful and sensible internet policy towards the use of the terms &quot;Nazi&quot; and &quot;Nazis&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> This is a wonderful and sensible internet policy towards the use of the terms &#8220;Nazi&#8221; and &#8220;Nazis&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476828</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476828</guid>
		<description> Dead Dr. Herndon,

This is exactly the attitude towards criticism that makes me think you are probably a crackpot.  Attacking your critics makes you look petty; worse, it makes you seem like you can&#039;t actually make an argument for your case.  Support your argument, don&#039;t attack your critics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Dead Dr. Herndon,</p>
<p>This is exactly the attitude towards criticism that makes me think you are probably a crackpot.  Attacking your critics makes you look petty; worse, it makes you seem like you can&#8217;t actually make an argument for your case.  Support your argument, don&#8217;t attack your critics.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476807</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476807</guid>
		<description>This is more myth making.
Galileo was accused of blasphemy for engaging in theology (specifically, for saying that heliocentrism was &lt;em&gt;really true&lt;/em&gt; rather than just an interesting theory).  Seeing the moons of Jupiter really did not factor into the case.  Very few people had a problem with his science per se, though some of his competitors argued that observations made through Galileo&#039;s telescope could not be considered valid unless the principles by which the telescope operated were better understood (this, by the way, is an incredibly reasonable argument; consider my magical crystal ball that shows me what&#039;s inside a black hole).  Also, nothing Galileo argued was particularly revolutionary (except that his telescope actually worked; more knowledge of optics was required for that).  The possibility of heliocentrism had already been considered since antiquity and his work on motion was just damned good science.  The only sense in which Galileo was a crackpot is that he tried to correct the Catholic bishops on the subject of theology -- so not a scientific crackpot but a religious one (the Catholic church eventually came around to something like his view).

Wright brothers, Edison, Jobs, and Wozniak -- none of these people are scientists and none of them were advancing purely theoretical arguments while claiming to overthrow the scientific orthodoxy (which is the kind of crackpottery under discussion).  I can&#039;t really think of any reason to consider any of these people crackpots whether we overlook this flaw in the comparison or not.  The Wright brothers had a tiny influence on science proper, basically by proving heaver-than-air flight is possible (which we already knew &#039;cause birds, duh) giving physicists a pretty good puzzle for a few decades figuring out how that flying contraption actually worked.  But I don&#039;t think anyone seriously considered locking them up for putting their money where their mouth is by actually building the thing before screaming about the scientific priesthood suppressing their revolutionary ideas.  I&#039;d actually consider the Wright brothers the perfect example of how &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; to be a crackpot: demonstrate your idea is probably true before making a big freakin&#039; deal about it.

We should encourage those who think differently...to put their strange new ideas to rigorous tests (like building a plane or a light bulb or a personal computer) rather than just wail about how their strange, brilliant ideas threaten established institutions and that&#039;s why they&#039;re being kept down.  Thinking differently is easy.  Thinking well is hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is more myth making.<br />
Galileo was accused of blasphemy for engaging in theology (specifically, for saying that heliocentrism was <em>really true</em> rather than just an interesting theory).  Seeing the moons of Jupiter really did not factor into the case.  Very few people had a problem with his science per se, though some of his competitors argued that observations made through Galileo&#8217;s telescope could not be considered valid unless the principles by which the telescope operated were better understood (this, by the way, is an incredibly reasonable argument; consider my magical crystal ball that shows me what&#8217;s inside a black hole).  Also, nothing Galileo argued was particularly revolutionary (except that his telescope actually worked; more knowledge of optics was required for that).  The possibility of heliocentrism had already been considered since antiquity and his work on motion was just damned good science.  The only sense in which Galileo was a crackpot is that he tried to correct the Catholic bishops on the subject of theology &#8212; so not a scientific crackpot but a religious one (the Catholic church eventually came around to something like his view).</p>
<p>Wright brothers, Edison, Jobs, and Wozniak &#8212; none of these people are scientists and none of them were advancing purely theoretical arguments while claiming to overthrow the scientific orthodoxy (which is the kind of crackpottery under discussion).  I can&#8217;t really think of any reason to consider any of these people crackpots whether we overlook this flaw in the comparison or not.  The Wright brothers had a tiny influence on science proper, basically by proving heaver-than-air flight is possible (which we already knew &#8217;cause birds, duh) giving physicists a pretty good puzzle for a few decades figuring out how that flying contraption actually worked.  But I don&#8217;t think anyone seriously considered locking them up for putting their money where their mouth is by actually building the thing before screaming about the scientific priesthood suppressing their revolutionary ideas.  I&#8217;d actually consider the Wright brothers the perfect example of how <em>not</em> to be a crackpot: demonstrate your idea is probably true before making a big freakin&#8217; deal about it.</p>
<p>We should encourage those who think differently&#8230;to put their strange new ideas to rigorous tests (like building a plane or a light bulb or a personal computer) rather than just wail about how their strange, brilliant ideas threaten established institutions and that&#8217;s why they&#8217;re being kept down.  Thinking differently is easy.  Thinking well is hard.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476776</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476776</guid>
		<description>Murphy&#039;s Law as an epistemological principle.  This is excellent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murphy&#8217;s Law as an epistemological principle.  This is excellent.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476769</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476769</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Unfortunately, where the (rare) revolutionary breakthroughs are concerned, the experts actually can&#039;t be trusted.  Also the scientific community really does suppress the eccentric voices, since those voices are usually wrong.  Yet lone revolutionaries have occasionally been correct while the mass opinion was not.  That&#039;s what crackpots are always going on about: insisting that they are wrongly-suppressed revolutionaries like the many historical examples, rather than being correctly-suppressed crackpots like the far more numerous examples.&lt;/blockquote&gt;There&#039;s another facet to this dilemma.  There&#039;s a definite pattern to which &quot;revolutionaries&quot; are able to make a respectful and respectable case against the mainstream and which flame out in utter crackpottery.

The first class are inevitably humble and invite careful scrutiny of their arguments and results by other experts in the field.  The latter class are almost always cranks who insist that their genius is being repressed by a jealous or threatened orthodoxy -- words like &quot;priesthood&quot; and &quot;ideology&quot; get tossed around a lot by these types.

I&#039;m sick of Einstein&#039;s name coming up in these conversations.  There was huge uptake of his ideas within a few years of his publishing.  The reason above is part of it -- he didn&#039;t set up his new theory adversarially as the Newton-killer.  He presented it as a hypothesis that would resolve several long-standing philosophical objections to Newton&#039;s law of gravity.  And to focus only on relativity is to ignore another reason for the acceptance of his ideas: that his paper on special relativity came out the same year as his analysis of Brownian motion and interpretation of the photoelectric effect.  The Brownian motion paper was pure statistical mechanics, completely in line with what other theorists were working on at the time.  The photoelectric effect explained what appeared to be an anomalous experimental result which Einstein resolved by invoking a theory already advanced by some of the biggest heavyweights in theoretical physics at the time.

Part of Maggie&#039;s warning signs for crackpottery is storytelling.  Well this &quot;Einstein was on the line between crackpot and revolutionary&quot; stuff is the exact same kind of storytelling.  I&#039;d actually call it &quot;myth making&quot;.  This myth does not realistically reflect the attitude of Einstein towards established science or vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Unfortunately, where the (rare) revolutionary breakthroughs are concerned, the experts actually can&#8217;t be trusted.  Also the scientific community really does suppress the eccentric voices, since those voices are usually wrong.  Yet lone revolutionaries have occasionally been correct while the mass opinion was not.  That&#8217;s what crackpots are always going on about: insisting that they are wrongly-suppressed revolutionaries like the many historical examples, rather than being correctly-suppressed crackpots like the far more numerous examples.</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s another facet to this dilemma.  There&#8217;s a definite pattern to which &#8220;revolutionaries&#8221; are able to make a respectful and respectable case against the mainstream and which flame out in utter crackpottery.</p>
<p>The first class are inevitably humble and invite careful scrutiny of their arguments and results by other experts in the field.  The latter class are almost always cranks who insist that their genius is being repressed by a jealous or threatened orthodoxy &#8212; words like &#8220;priesthood&#8221; and &#8220;ideology&#8221; get tossed around a lot by these types.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sick of Einstein&#8217;s name coming up in these conversations.  There was huge uptake of his ideas within a few years of his publishing.  The reason above is part of it &#8212; he didn&#8217;t set up his new theory adversarially as the Newton-killer.  He presented it as a hypothesis that would resolve several long-standing philosophical objections to Newton&#8217;s law of gravity.  And to focus only on relativity is to ignore another reason for the acceptance of his ideas: that his paper on special relativity came out the same year as his analysis of Brownian motion and interpretation of the photoelectric effect.  The Brownian motion paper was pure statistical mechanics, completely in line with what other theorists were working on at the time.  The photoelectric effect explained what appeared to be an anomalous experimental result which Einstein resolved by invoking a theory already advanced by some of the biggest heavyweights in theoretical physics at the time.</p>
<p>Part of Maggie&#8217;s warning signs for crackpottery is storytelling.  Well this &#8220;Einstein was on the line between crackpot and revolutionary&#8221; stuff is the exact same kind of storytelling.  I&#8217;d actually call it &#8220;myth making&#8221;.  This myth does not realistically reflect the attitude of Einstein towards established science or vice versa.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476747</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476747</guid>
		<description>Hey Smarty McSmarterson, the point is way over there.  When they call this &quot;A Compendium of Greasy Peccadilloes&quot; they ain&#039;t talking about &lt;em&gt;your&lt;/em&gt; peccadilloes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Smarty McSmarterson, the point is way over there.  When they call this &#8220;A Compendium of Greasy Peccadilloes&#8221; they ain&#8217;t talking about <em>your</em> peccadilloes.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Yard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476206</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Yard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476206</guid>
		<description>Not the old &quot;Expanding Earth&quot; theory, and I use the word &#039;theory&#039; in the layman sense. It should really be hypothesis. Because there isn&#039;t much evidence for it and a lot against it.

Also remember the venerable Crackpot Index. A good initial guide. Though I think the rules in this article are better but the Crackpot Index is funnier.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not the old &#8220;Expanding Earth&#8221; theory, and I use the word &#8216;theory&#8217; in the layman sense. It should really be hypothesis. Because there isn&#8217;t much evidence for it and a lot against it.</p>
<p>Also remember the venerable Crackpot Index. A good initial guide. Though I think the rules in this article are better but the Crackpot Index is funnier.</p>
<p><a href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html" rel="nofollow">http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html</a> </p>
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		<title>By: hypnosifl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476187</link>
		<dc:creator>hypnosifl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476187</guid>
		<description>In Newtonian physics it should be possible in principle to have a sun surrounded by a hollow shell--that&#039;s basically a small-scale &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dyson sphere&lt;/a&gt;, and if the shell were spherically symmetric, the inner sun would feel no pull from the shell (thanks to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;shell theorem&lt;/a&gt;) even if it drifted away from the center, and likewise the shell would feel no net pull from the inner sun (since forces must be equal and opposite). Problem is such an arrangement &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/dysonFAQ.html#STABLE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wouldn&#039;t be stable&lt;/a&gt;, so if the central sun had even the slightest drift relative to the shell, it would eventually collide with it (though I wonder if radiation pressure would counteract this, since if the sun began to move off center, the part of the shell closer to it would experience a stronger outward force, and if the shell were rigid there&#039;d be no net gravitational pull to counteract it). Anyone inside the shell would feel no gravitational pull from the shell but they would feel an inward gravitational pull from the inner sun (the shell theorem says that for anything inside the shell, gravitationally it&#039;s just as if the shell isn&#039;t there at all), which means hollow-earthers wouldn&#039;t be able to walk around on the inner surface.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Newtonian physics it should be possible in principle to have a sun surrounded by a hollow shell&#8211;that&#8217;s basically a small-scale <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere" rel="nofollow">Dyson sphere</a>, and if the shell were spherically symmetric, the inner sun would feel no pull from the shell (thanks to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem" rel="nofollow">shell theorem</a>) even if it drifted away from the center, and likewise the shell would feel no net pull from the inner sun (since forces must be equal and opposite). Problem is such an arrangement <a href="http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/dysonFAQ.html#STABLE" rel="nofollow">wouldn&#8217;t be stable</a>, so if the central sun had even the slightest drift relative to the shell, it would eventually collide with it (though I wonder if radiation pressure would counteract this, since if the sun began to move off center, the part of the shell closer to it would experience a stronger outward force, and if the shell were rigid there&#8217;d be no net gravitational pull to counteract it). Anyone inside the shell would feel no gravitational pull from the shell but they would feel an inward gravitational pull from the inner sun (the shell theorem says that for anything inside the shell, gravitationally it&#8217;s just as if the shell isn&#8217;t there at all), which means hollow-earthers wouldn&#8217;t be able to walk around on the inner surface.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim_Buck_II</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476121</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim_Buck_II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 05:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476121</guid>
		<description>Are there any examples in the history of science where the crackpot&#039;s idea ultimately proved to be correct?  

Galileo was accused of blasphemy because he was the first to see Jupiter&#039;s moons - he was a nut.  Surely, two bicycle mechanics who thought they could fly needed to be locked up.  Steve Jobs and the Woz thought they could sell computers for home use and were no doubt regarded as harmless cranks.  When the wheel and moveable type were first invented, was it really obvious to others  - or to even the inventors - just how these ideas would change the world?

I think we should encourage those who think differently.  I wouldn&#039;t want to have said to Edison:  &quot;Tom, give it up.  You&#039;ve already tried 999 different filaments and none worked.  You&#039;re an idiot if you think you can light up that carbonized thread.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there any examples in the history of science where the crackpot&#8217;s idea ultimately proved to be correct?  </p>
<p>Galileo was accused of blasphemy because he was the first to see Jupiter&#8217;s moons &#8211; he was a nut.  Surely, two bicycle mechanics who thought they could fly needed to be locked up.  Steve Jobs and the Woz thought they could sell computers for home use and were no doubt regarded as harmless cranks.  When the wheel and moveable type were first invented, was it really obvious to others  &#8211; or to even the inventors &#8211; just how these ideas would change the world?</p>
<p>I think we should encourage those who think differently.  I wouldn&#8217;t want to have said to Edison:  &#8220;Tom, give it up.  You&#8217;ve already tried 999 different filaments and none worked.  You&#8217;re an idiot if you think you can light up that carbonized thread.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: pjcamp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1476004</link>
		<dc:creator>pjcamp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 03:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1476004</guid>
		<description> Well, he asked me how much I wanted. I said &quot;Hell if I know. 30-40 bucks?&quot; I was thinking beer money, because beer is one of the two essential fluids of physics. That&#039;s when he told me he was a dentist and wrote out the big check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Well, he asked me how much I wanted. I said &#8220;Hell if I know. 30-40 bucks?&#8221; I was thinking beer money, because beer is one of the two essential fluids of physics. That&#8217;s when he told me he was a dentist and wrote out the big check.</p>
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		<title>By: mherndon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1475823</link>
		<dc:creator>mherndon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1475823</guid>
		<description>Download The Universe can make a valuable contribution. There is some craziness out there that a critical reviewer, such as John Timmer, might highlight. But the credibility of Download The Universe comes into question when he mistakenly paints an individual’s work with the wrong brush and in doing so does a disservice to the community and to the author involved. That certainly appears to be the case for Indivisible Earth: Consequences of Earth&#039;s Early Formation as a Jupiter-Like Gas Giant. Timmer’s review might lead a casual reader to the conclusion that the author is attempting an end-run around peer review. That is simply not the case. In Indivisible Earth , my purpose was not to present new unpublished work, but to make understandable to the public some of the scientific work I have published in world-class, peer reviewed journals over a period of some 3½ decades; 13 of those articles I cite in that eBook. Timmer’s review unwittingly brings up the important question of science ethics. Does one make irresponsibly pejorative assertions, or go the scientific literature and refute work which might at first seem outrageous? To date, no one has refuted my work in the scientific literature. I have explained quite precisely the scientific considerations involved. In fact, the final sentence of the the eBook summary states: “Clearly, critical observational, experimental, and theoretical evaluation is warranted.” An objective reader should be able to follow the logic presented in Indivisible Earth, go to the cited scientific literature, and then decide for themselves whether the misleading, pejorative assertions made in Timmon’s review are warranted. –J. Marvin Herndon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Download The Universe can make a valuable contribution. There is some craziness out there that a critical reviewer, such as John Timmer, might highlight. But the credibility of Download The Universe comes into question when he mistakenly paints an individual’s work with the wrong brush and in doing so does a disservice to the community and to the author involved. That certainly appears to be the case for Indivisible Earth: Consequences of Earth&#8217;s Early Formation as a Jupiter-Like Gas Giant. Timmer’s review might lead a casual reader to the conclusion that the author is attempting an end-run around peer review. That is simply not the case. In Indivisible Earth , my purpose was not to present new unpublished work, but to make understandable to the public some of the scientific work I have published in world-class, peer reviewed journals over a period of some 3½ decades; 13 of those articles I cite in that eBook. Timmer’s review unwittingly brings up the important question of science ethics. Does one make irresponsibly pejorative assertions, or go the scientific literature and refute work which might at first seem outrageous? To date, no one has refuted my work in the scientific literature. I have explained quite precisely the scientific considerations involved. In fact, the final sentence of the the eBook summary states: “Clearly, critical observational, experimental, and theoretical evaluation is warranted.” An objective reader should be able to follow the logic presented in Indivisible Earth, go to the cited scientific literature, and then decide for themselves whether the misleading, pejorative assertions made in Timmon’s review are warranted. –J. Marvin Herndon</p>
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		<title>By: DeeJay</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1475788</link>
		<dc:creator>DeeJay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1475788</guid>
		<description>I think I like you - more if you did it for free. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I like you &#8211; more if you did it for free. </p>
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		<title>By: Ito Kagehisa</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1475609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ito Kagehisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1475609</guid>
		<description>Maggie, I think you&#039;ve skipped the step where you prove a genius has existed who &lt;i&gt;wasn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; a crackpot.  I could not make that proof, personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maggie, I think you&#8217;ve skipped the step where you prove a genius has existed who <i>wasn&#8217;t</i> a crackpot.  I could not make that proof, personally.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie Koerth-Baker</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1475585</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie Koerth-Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1475585</guid>
		<description>Ken, you&#039;re being extremely condescending to me, particularly given the fact that you&#039;re talking about an entirely different kind of story-telling than I&#039;m talking about.
I&#039;ve read quite a few physics papers that have passed peer review in recent years. I&#039;m sorry, but they are not told as stories in any way that a layperson would understand and be able to follow. Whether or not you have problems with the current peer review process doesn&#039;t matter. (And there are problems with peer review, though I think from my experience interviewing many scientists there would be a healthy debate about whether the problem you cite here is actually a problem or not.) There is a difference between putting new theories into the context of what came before for an audience of experts, and being able to communicate well with the public. A does not equal B. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, you&#8217;re being extremely condescending to me, particularly given the fact that you&#8217;re talking about an entirely different kind of story-telling than I&#8217;m talking about.<br />
I&#8217;ve read quite a few physics papers that have passed peer review in recent years. I&#8217;m sorry, but they are not told as stories in any way that a layperson would understand and be able to follow. Whether or not you have problems with the current peer review process doesn&#8217;t matter. (And there are problems with peer review, though I think from my experience interviewing many scientists there would be a healthy debate about whether the problem you cite here is actually a problem or not.) There is a difference between putting new theories into the context of what came before for an audience of experts, and being able to communicate well with the public. A does not equal B. </p>
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		<title>By: Ken Sandale</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1475568</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Sandale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1475568</guid>
		<description>The author is unaware of how science is currently practiced, and just makes unjustified assumptions.

She praises peer review, but also says real scientists do not like telling &quot;stories&quot;.  What happens when you submit a paper for peer review is that the &quot;story&quot; aspect is emphasized.  You are required to give an unnecessary historical overview and discuss how your work fits in with the story of the field.  Whatjpurnal reference  citations you give is also of utmost importance.  The actual physics is of considerably reduced importance.  One could not know this is the case without actual experience.  So the author has views not basded on experience.  Obviously, and ironically, not scientific.

It wasn&#039;t always this way.  Einstein used few references.  His papers today would be rejected without even being read--he would be viewed as a crackpot.  I&#039;ve looked through old important papers from Einstein, Feynman etc, and they did *not* give historical overviews--they only discussed the important scientific advances they were making.

Anyone can do the experiment--look at old important papers and note how different they are from the modern  stuff--few citations and none of the historical garbage.  &quot;Physics&quot; has become more social, and less scientific.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author is unaware of how science is currently practiced, and just makes unjustified assumptions.</p>
<p>She praises peer review, but also says real scientists do not like telling &#8220;stories&#8221;.  What happens when you submit a paper for peer review is that the &#8220;story&#8221; aspect is emphasized.  You are required to give an unnecessary historical overview and discuss how your work fits in with the story of the field.  Whatjpurnal reference  citations you give is also of utmost importance.  The actual physics is of considerably reduced importance.  One could not know this is the case without actual experience.  So the author has views not basded on experience.  Obviously, and ironically, not scientific.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t always this way.  Einstein used few references.  His papers today would be rejected without even being read&#8211;he would be viewed as a crackpot.  I&#8217;ve looked through old important papers from Einstein, Feynman etc, and they did *not* give historical overviews&#8211;they only discussed the important scientific advances they were making.</p>
<p>Anyone can do the experiment&#8211;look at old important papers and note how different they are from the modern  stuff&#8211;few citations and none of the historical garbage.  &#8220;Physics&#8221; has become more social, and less scientific.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifton</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474826</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 04:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474826</guid>
		<description>I see your Doctress Neutopia and Ludwig Plutonium and will raise you an Alexander Abian.  

 The moon must be destroyed to yield a more perfect Earth! Time = Mass!

Ah, the glory days of sci.physics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your Doctress Neutopia and Ludwig Plutonium and will raise you an Alexander Abian.  </p>
<p> The moon must be destroyed to yield a more perfect Earth! Time = Mass!</p>
<p>Ah, the glory days of sci.physics.</p>
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		<title>By: penguinchris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474536</link>
		<dc:creator>penguinchris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474536</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to clarify for anyone unfamiliar with the story that Wegener was not in any way a crackpot :)

My broad specialty within geology is plate tectonics and structure, and I wrote a 30-page &quot;history of science&quot; type paper about the development of plate tectonic theory as an undergrad, and I take any chance I can get to spout off about it ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to clarify for anyone unfamiliar with the story that Wegener was not in any way a crackpot :)</p>
<p>My broad specialty within geology is plate tectonics and structure, and I wrote a 30-page &#8220;history of science&#8221; type paper about the development of plate tectonic theory as an undergrad, and I take any chance I can get to spout off about it ;)</p>
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		<title>By: robdobbs</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474530</link>
		<dc:creator>robdobbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474530</guid>
		<description>That sounds like what The National Inquirer used to do to manufacture stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sounds like what The National Inquirer used to do to manufacture stories.</p>
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		<title>By: nagmas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474495</link>
		<dc:creator>nagmas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474495</guid>
		<description>That is rubbish.  Your argument and his both.
Re-animate the corpse of Carl Sagan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is rubbish.  Your argument and his both.<br />
Re-animate the corpse of Carl Sagan!</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Eugene NElson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474493</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Eugene NElson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474493</guid>
		<description>Like this planet needs to be MORE impressive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like this planet needs to be MORE impressive?</p>
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		<title>By: pjcamp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474467</link>
		<dc:creator>pjcamp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474467</guid>
		<description> His son, who was a local dentist. 

I made $600 for two hours of diplomatic discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> His son, who was a local dentist. </p>
<p>I made $600 for two hours of diplomatic discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Marja Erwin</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474460</link>
		<dc:creator>Marja Erwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474460</guid>
		<description>It requires alternative explanations for older pre-Pangaean orogenies. It also requires a causal mechanism. Losing a gas giant atmosphere is a causal mechanism, but the breakup of Pangaea is a Mesozoic-Cenozoic process, and if Paleozoic and early Mesozoic forms had adapted to the pressures at the bottom of a gas-giant atmosphere, surely they would show some signs of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It requires alternative explanations for older pre-Pangaean orogenies. It also requires a causal mechanism. Losing a gas giant atmosphere is a causal mechanism, but the breakup of Pangaea is a Mesozoic-Cenozoic process, and if Paleozoic and early Mesozoic forms had adapted to the pressures at the bottom of a gas-giant atmosphere, surely they would show some signs of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Marja Erwin</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474449</link>
		<dc:creator>Marja Erwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474449</guid>
		<description>I agree that Wegener wasn&#039;t suppressed in any way. I&#039;m just saying that his theories had a lot of problems but still proved constructive. It&#039;s to the credit of the field that even constantist geologists addressed the issues, and many changed their views as they encountered additional evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Wegener wasn&#8217;t suppressed in any way. I&#8217;m just saying that his theories had a lot of problems but still proved constructive. It&#8217;s to the credit of the field that even constantist geologists addressed the issues, and many changed their views as they encountered additional evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: LYNDON</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474402</link>
		<dc:creator>LYNDON</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 21:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474402</guid>
		<description> I so love that central sun. There was much loving explanation as to how something in the middle could stay up because of squares of the distance and balanced forces and so on (akin to the electrical effect of a Faraday cage), missing the point that if that were the case there&#039;d be no gravity *anywhere* in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I so love that central sun. There was much loving explanation as to how something in the middle could stay up because of squares of the distance and balanced forces and so on (akin to the electrical effect of a Faraday cage), missing the point that if that were the case there&#8217;d be no gravity *anywhere* in there.</p>
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		<title>By: dpeterh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html#comment-1474380</link>
		<dc:creator>dpeterh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 21:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=170404#comment-1474380</guid>
		<description>For more info about Herndon or Thinker Books, see 
http://www.bestthinking.com/thinkers/science/physics/geophysics/j-m-herndon 
http://www.bestthinking.com/ 
http://store.bestthinking.com/default.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more info about Herndon or Thinker Books, see <br />
<a href="http://www.bestthinking.com/thinkers/science/physics/geophysics/j-m-herndon " rel="nofollow">http://www.bestthinking.com/thinkers/science/physics/geophysics/j-m-herndon </a><br />
<a href="http://www.bestthinking.com/ " rel="nofollow">http://www.bestthinking.com/ </a><br />
<a href="http://store.bestthinking.com/default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://store.bestthinking.com/default.aspx</a></p>
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