Comments on: Posters/petitions for Seattle residents against corporate personhood http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 19 Jun 2013 07:14:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: koanhead http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478414 koanhead Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478414  To state that "a corporation is not a person" is not the same as to state that "a corporation is not a container for liability".  To state that “a corporation is not a person” is not the same as to state that “a corporation is not a container for liability”.

]]> By: koanhead http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478411 koanhead Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478411 I propose we demonize people who spam BoingBoing comments with irrelevant links. I propose we demonize people who spam BoingBoing comments with irrelevant links.

]]> By: koanhead http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478406 koanhead Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478406  The time to establish such frameworks was centuries ago. Several such frameworks have been tried, and so far most of them have succumbed to the ability of corporate interests to agitate for increased corporate power. As it stands, corporations are already more complex than goldfish, puppies, or people. A corporation can be in more than one place at a time, it exists without eating, sleeping or breathing, it can contain other corporations or split off pieces of itself which act independently. If, as you claim below, "biology trumps law", then that is a reason why corporations cannot be people. People are biological entities, corporations are legal ones.  The time to establish such frameworks was centuries ago. Several such frameworks have been tried, and so far most of them have succumbed to the ability of corporate interests to agitate for increased corporate power.
As it stands, corporations are already more complex than goldfish, puppies, or people. A corporation can be in more than one place at a time, it exists without eating, sleeping or breathing, it can contain other corporations or split off pieces of itself which act independently.
If, as you claim below, “biology trumps law”, then that is a reason why corporations cannot be people. People are biological entities, corporations are legal ones.

]]> By: BongBong http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478402 BongBong Mon, 16 Jul 2012 06:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478402 More evidence that people misunderstand common legal terms to the point of aggressive stupidity in this "end of the world" directed society we live in. More evidence that people misunderstand common legal terms to the point of aggressive stupidity in this “end of the world” directed society we live in.

]]> By: David Peters http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478384 David Peters Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478384 What about corporate personhood collectivizing and protecting individual members of a non-profit charity, when a mistake occurs and the corporate entity is liable? For example: "A driver for the local co-op chain crashes into a bus full of kids injuring them. Instead of the co-op being responsible, all individual stakeholders could be sued--including the very parents of kids in the bus." I understand that corporate personhood creates a number of problems (especially the idea that corporate persons have "rights" like you or I--i.e. corporations should be restricted from fair elections via caps on campaign donations or outright bans)... ... but that's not to say that parts of the system protect non-profits, charities, and NGOs from all its members being sued. What about corporate personhood collectivizing and protecting individual members of a non-profit charity, when a mistake occurs and the corporate entity is liable?

For example:
“A driver for the local co-op chain crashes into a bus full of kids injuring them. Instead of the co-op being responsible, all individual stakeholders could be sued–including the very parents of kids in the bus.”

I understand that corporate personhood creates a number of problems (especially the idea that corporate persons have “rights” like you or I–i.e. corporations should be restricted from fair elections via caps on campaign donations or outright bans)…

… but that’s not to say that parts of the system protect non-profits, charities, and NGOs from all its members being sued.

]]> By: retchdog http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478382 retchdog Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478382 liability and (full) autonomy seem to be orthogonal concepts, excepting that you can be held liable for things you do, of course. i don't see why you can't have either one without the other. liability and (full) autonomy seem to be orthogonal concepts, excepting that you can be held liable for things you do, of course. i don’t see why you can’t have either one without the other.

]]> By: ultranaut http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478304 ultranaut Mon, 16 Jul 2012 02:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478304 masturbation is fun! masturbation is fun!

]]> By: ultranaut http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478302 ultranaut Mon, 16 Jul 2012 02:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478302 I'm a driver but cars are not people I’m a driver but cars are not people

]]> By: ultranaut http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478301 ultranaut Mon, 16 Jul 2012 02:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478301 box turtles! box turtles!

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478272 SomeGuyNamedMark Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478272 It goes back much further than 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad It goes back much further than 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad

]]> By: Ipo http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478205 Ipo Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478205  The Deutsche Mark ceased to be legal tender immediately upon the introduction of the euro. Mark coins and banknotes continued to be accepted as valid forms of payment in Germany until 28 February 2002.  The Deutsche Mark ceased to be legal tender immediately upon the introduction of the euro. Mark coins and banknotes continued to be accepted as valid forms of payment in Germany until 28 February 2002.

]]> By: austinhamman http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478115 austinhamman Sun, 15 Jul 2012 18:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478115  mostly just going by what the wikipedia page on corporate personhood states: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood i really think they should be fighting against the right of corporate persons to provide campaign funds to politicians (citizen's united v. federal election commission: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission) provide a bill which states that corporations do NOT have first amendment rights (or that campaign donations are not protected by the first amendment, but since congress can't say that only the supreme court can, and the supreme court has basically said it IS, the former is more likely) corporations not having first amendment rights will not impair their ability to go into contracts, to sue or be sued. i dont see any reason we need them to have that right.  mostly just going by what the wikipedia page on corporate personhood states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

i really think they should be fighting against the right of corporate persons to provide campaign funds to politicians (citizen’s united v. federal election commission: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission) provide a bill which states that corporations do NOT have first amendment rights (or that campaign donations are not protected by the first amendment, but since congress can’t say that only the supreme court can, and the supreme court has basically said it IS, the former is more likely)
corporations not having first amendment rights will not impair their ability to go into contracts, to sue or be sued. i dont see any reason we need them to have that right.

]]> By: Mantissa128 http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478100 Mantissa128 Sun, 15 Jul 2012 17:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478100 ...and then nine months later, there are layoffs. …and then nine months later, there are layoffs.

]]> By: Walt Guyll http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478090 Walt Guyll Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478090 .orgs are not people. .orgs are not people.

]]> By: Amelia_G http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478091 Amelia_G Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478091 Would it be better to treat corporations not like natural predators but perhaps like software, incl. malware? Because natural predators haven't yet been created by humans but software is. Would it be better to treat corporations not like natural predators but perhaps like software, incl. malware? Because natural predators haven’t yet been created by humans but software is.

]]> By: MB44 http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478070 MB44 Sun, 15 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478070 You were always hired. Now you are promoted to VicePresidentDirectorChairmanPresidentDivisionSupervisor of the Logo Art Division. We have crafted a golden parachute for you out of the souls of the people that you had to crush to get here.  You were always hired. Now you are promoted to VicePresidentDirectorChairmanPresidentDivisionSupervisor of the Logo Art Division. We have crafted a golden parachute for you out of the souls of the people that you had to crush to get here. 

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478047 Cowicide Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478047 Your Logo? Your Logo?

]]> By: glaborous_immolate http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478022 glaborous_immolate Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478022 If corporations aren't people, why is the corporation represented by a human foot in the picture. Its funny even the graphic designers have to use a human person to claim a corp isn't a human person. Maybe that tells us something.... If corporations aren’t people, why is the corporation represented by a human foot in the picture.

Its funny even the graphic designers have to use a human person to claim a corp isn’t a human person. Maybe that tells us something….

]]> By: Maladi http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1478000 Maladi Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1478000 Bravo, corporate mind-fu#* machine, bravo. I would think like you if I listened to CSPAN/FOX/CNBC/BSCORPRTMDIA too. Dear Americans, Do try not to be Trogolodytes. Bravo, corporate mind-fu#* machine, bravo. I would think like you if I listened to CSPAN/FOX/CNBC/BSCORPRTMDIA too.
Dear Americans,
Do try not to be Trogolodytes.

]]> By: niktemadur http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477970 niktemadur Sun, 15 Jul 2012 06:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477970 That's where something along the lines of <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbU4VRs2rro" rel="nofollow">Worthington's Law</a> comes into effect. That’s where something along the lines of Worthington’s Law comes into effect.

]]> By: retepslluerb http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477964 retepslluerb Sun, 15 Jul 2012 06:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477964 Quick question: If this legal personhood stuff is so bad, what should substitute it in cases where people sue, say, the Catholic Church or Penn State University? Quick question: If this legal personhood stuff is so bad, what should substitute it in cases where people sue, say, the Catholic Church or Penn State University?

]]> By: MB44 http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477963 MB44 Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477963 I hate being in prison. That's why I incorporated a long time ago. It was the only way to seize individual rights and protect myself from the hardships of personal responsibility for my actions. It's not completely clear what exactly we do around here at MB44 Corps but, by god, nobody bothers us while we (I) do it.  MB44 Corps, Because Fuck You, That's Why. I hate being in prison. That’s why I incorporated a long time ago. It was the only way to seize individual rights and protect myself from the hardships of personal responsibility for my actions. It’s not completely clear what exactly we do around here at MB44 Corps but, by god, nobody bothers us while we (I) do it. 

MB44 Corps, Because Fuck You, That’s Why.

]]> By: retepslluerb http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477959 retepslluerb Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477959 Limited reliability shouldn't protect owners not from criminal acts, of course. Same for sharholder's profits. Limited reliability shouldn’t protect owners not from criminal acts, of course. Same for sharholder’s profits.

]]> By: retepslluerb http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477958 retepslluerb Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477958 The corporation would have to make the donation and it would not be tax deductible, of course. And frankly, the neighbors of Dubai are trying to do this by building mosques. But you didn't want to year that. Also, it wouldn't really matter much. The shitstorm would force the party on question to forego the donation. Also, parties which manage to get elected get reimbursed The corporation would have to make the donation and it would not be tax deductible, of course.

And frankly, the neighbors of Dubai are trying to do this by building mosques. But you didn’t want to year that.

Also, it wouldn’t really matter much. The shitstorm would force the party on question to forego the donation.

Also, parties which manage to get elected get reimbursed

]]> By: Neural Kernel http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477951 Neural Kernel Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477951 Why are children the exception? An embryo is legally NOT a person (in most common law nations) but is most definitely human (biology trumps law). And why is man "fallible" while the random swirling of complex molecules is not? All I'm saying that an entity should be granted or denied personhood based on its behaviour and abilities and not on any other factors, frankly I'm a little shocked that it seems like such an outlandish idea to so many... people. Why are children the exception? An embryo is legally NOT a person (in most common law nations) but is most definitely human (biology trumps law). And why is man “fallible” while the random swirling of complex molecules is not? All I’m saying that an entity should be granted or denied personhood based on its behaviour and abilities and not on any other factors, frankly I’m a little shocked that it seems like such an outlandish idea to so many… people.

]]> By: jhertzli http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477931 jhertzli Sun, 15 Jul 2012 03:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477931 The reason corporations are not human beings is not that  they aren't human. They are human (at least on this planet). They are not human beings because they are not beings. Corporations don't actually exist. What that means is that any confiscation of the property of a corporation is confiscation of that property from the beings composing it. Those beings have rights. The reason corporations are not human beings is not that  they aren’t human. They are human (at least on this planet). They are not human beings because they are not beings. Corporations don’t actually exist.

What that means is that any confiscation of the property of a corporation is confiscation of that property from the beings composing it. Those beings have rights.

]]> By: jhertzli http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477930 jhertzli Sun, 15 Jul 2012 03:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477930 The People's Rights Amendment is UNFAIR TO ROBOTS! (ObSF: <i>Valentina</i> by Joseph H. Delaney and Marc Stiegler) The People’s Rights Amendment is UNFAIR TO ROBOTS! (ObSF: Valentina by Joseph H. Delaney and Marc Stiegler)

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477924 Cowicide Sun, 15 Jul 2012 03:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477924 I checked him out on Facebook and he supports the RNC and dates Rush Limbaugh. He's not kidding;  But, he still shouldn't be taken seriously.  I'm just still trying to figure out how he drunkenly stumbled into Boing Boing from FOX "News". I checked him out on Facebook and he supports the RNC and dates Rush Limbaugh.

He’s not kidding;  But, he still shouldn’t be taken seriously.  I’m just still trying to figure out how he drunkenly stumbled into Boing Boing from FOX “News”.

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477920 Cowicide Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477920 The only true Libertarian is a hermit that lives out in the woods without electricity, running water or sanitation.  What a hero. The only true Libertarian is a hermit that lives out in the woods without electricity, running water or sanitation.  What a hero.

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2012/07/14/posterspetitions-for-seattle.html#comment-1477918 Cowicide Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=171214#comment-1477918 <blockquote>I'm a shareholder, I guess I am not a person.</blockquote>So...  when the corporation with personhood breaks the law, should you and all the other shareholder people go to prison like normal people do when they break laws?

I’m a shareholder, I guess I am not a person.

So…  when the corporation with personhood breaks the law, should you and all the other shareholder people go to prison like normal people do when they break laws?

]]>