Journalist Irin Carmon responds to Trust Me I'm Lying book chapter about her work at Jezebel


32 Responses to “Journalist Irin Carmon responds to Trust Me I'm Lying book chapter about her work at Jezebel”

  1. EH says:

    I hereby nominate Ms. Carmon for the Chris Wallace Thin-Skin Reporter Award.

    • Charles Céleste Hutchins says:

       I don’t think it’s fair to call her thin skinned when he attacked her directly and she’s responding to those attacks.  When I read the original article, I was struck that he picked a feminist website and woman writer as his object of attack. One side effect of the democratising nature of the internet is that people get a louder voice than they would have otherwise, something he bemoans as a publicist. This has especially benefited women. It doesn’t seem like a coincidence that he picked on a feminist blogger, especially since the internet was very quickly central to feminist discourse.

      Also, since a lot of the original article was whining that it was difficult for targets to respond to attacks, it does seem ironic that you’re calling her thin-skinned for doing so.

    • Mordicai says:

       How dare she reply to a dude who called her out in a public forum by responding in a public forum!  I mean, what, she could have just let that dude claim whatever he wants, but…why let liars lie?

      • dragonfrog says:

        And, in particular, how dare she reply directly on-topic, to the specific accusation, after he invited her to comment by emailing her a link himself?

        • Mordicai says:

          Madness, I tell you. On the flip side, just to play devil’s advocate, maybe these “internet girls” will be the death of people like…whatever this PR dude’s name is. Wouldn’t that be…actually, that’d be okay.

  2. fuzzyfuzzyfungus says:

    “But in Holiday’s formulation, sexism or discrimination aren’t real, they’re just something he uses as a way to sell products. No one actually believes in what they write or the issues they’re writing about, because, Holiday claims, we are all motivated by a desire for attention or money.”

    I am shocked that a PR flack might start to project his own ethically flexible epistemology onto the world at large…

  3. TheKaz1969 says:

    so… this guy wrote about her supposedly not calling the subject of her journalism for a response to what she was about to publish without first calling her to get a response to what he was about to publish…?

  4. I suspected lulz may be incoming when Ryan mentioned pageviews! I don’t think Gawker’s paid writers by traffic for many years.

    • microcars says:

      Isn’t it their job to generate traffic for ads?
      Without content, there would just be pages filled with ads.
      A writer who can consistently bring a decent number of page views may not get paid in money for that traffic but they do get paid in other ways: job security to some extent, being able to make a move to Salon to get away from Gawker…

      Speculative headlines appear to generate traffic and page views. Shocking news.

      • If you want to look at things that way, the sole job of nearly everyone in journalism is also to generate traffic for ads. 

        We can choose just how focused we are on our own cynicism about the whole thing. However, we don’t really get to take abstract sneering over the economic generalities and use it to excuse naughty claims such as “her pay is determined by the number of pageviews her posts receive.” 

        • Ryan Holiday says:

          Sure, but some people are more insulated from that need and thus create better, more honest work. At the end of the day every public CEO’s job is to boost the stock price–but the mark of a quality CEO is the horizon with which he judges that increase. Bloggers and blog publishers rarely recognize this fact and chase short term gains over long term aims. 

          • wysinwyg says:

            Sure, but some people are more insulated from that need and thus create better, more honest work.

            I wonder which class of people you fall into…

    • Jeremy Mesiano-Crookston says:

      Reports are they get bonuses for popular stories, and that there’s a live-updating version of this:¤t=true&month=true in their office, like some sort of horrible eye of mordor, watching. 

  5. Mordicai says:

     The PR guy for American Apparel & Tucker Max is a sleazy guy?  Quelle surprise!

  6. nox says:

    Lets be fair: her notice to TDS was as innocuous as possible and really just asked for an interview with someone on the show.  

    If anything this says something about the quality of the women she interviewed: people blaming their lack of success on their gender. Disgusting.

    • Charles Céleste Hutchins says:

       Yes, when victims of discrimination speak up, it sure is disgusting.

      • wizardru says:

        I was under the impression that no discrimination had ever been shown or proven and that vast majority of Daily Show female workers (which comprise some 40% of the show’s staff) vehemently defended the show and called the accusations false.

        Wasn’t Holliday’s whole point that she intentionally misrepresented the story and the people making the claims to drive page views and generate outrage exactly like you’re displaying?

  7. Sirkowski says:

    Liar caught lying. Surprised?

  8. Ladyfingers says:

    Nearly very time I’m suckered into reading something because of a “speculative” headline at Jezebel, I end up reading the article using Elmyra Duff’s voice in my head because of the nonstop use of “ironic” juvenile language.

  9. Joe Wallace says:

    The real problem with Ryan Holiday’s book is that if you read it carefully and read between the lines, it seems that the real purpose of the text is more about advertising himself than “warning” anyone about anything.

    At one stage in the book he complains that his old tactics bother him because, and I’m paraphrasing in the extreme, they now have the ability to hurt HIM and that there’s “no control”.

    In places, the book pretends that he has moved on from his old ways, but he constantly writes about himself doing these things in the present tense–he’s either guilty of sloppy writing or he’s dropping hints to people he knows can read between the lines that his services are still available.

    Or both.

    The title of the book tells you all you need to know on that front–he says at the end that part of the reason for his tell-all is to do a “controlled burn” of his former plays and scams, but one gets the idea that he’s moved on to more complex plays and scams–like writing a tell-all book about tactics that no longer work or are no longer needed–as though they are still relevant. He’s smirking all the way to the bank, in my view.

  10. Thad Boyd says:

    Wait.  So you’re telling me that not all of the information in Trust Me, I’m Lying is 100% truthful?

  11. yvgeny says:

    It’s good to see Boing Boing giving space for Irin Carmon’s response. That excerpt seemed really out of place for Boing Boing and stood in contrast to the much more civil and informative interview.

  12. senorglory says:

    which is the worse association/smear, tucker max or jezebel?  

  13. Shane Simmons says:

    I don’t have a horse in this thing, and don’t know much about it.  I read the blurb on the original story and was intrigued enough to consider the book.  I hope the overall message–the mad rush for page views and to scoop everyone else trumping everything else, including truth–doesn’t get lost.

    As in most things, I’m sure the truth lies somewhere between what Carmon and Holiday have said.

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