Comments on: Uninsured Aurora shooting victims face financial devastation

By: Navin_Johnson

Navin_Johnson — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:15:00 +0000

At what age should the federal govt have come and asked for your signature to join our society with the sign up sheet? Would you have left the country since you chose not to participate? Do you have a time machine so you can back to the various points in time before humans organized themselves into social/political structures? I’ve got bad news for you, those kings and chieftains that Rothbard talks about would have expected something from you too, but probably by sword-point instead of by “gunpoint” as you say…..

By: birdmechanical

birdmechanical — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:41:00 +0000

Let’s also point out, that the Affordable Care Act is more market based than what we have had before. They are the ones trying to force insurance companies into those markets where people can compare and buy their insurance.

As opposed to being force to a single provider based on the whims of the company you work for. That’s definitely not free market or consumer choice.

By: Soren Schonbachler

Soren Schonbachler — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:39:00 +0000

Assault rifles aren’t designed to kill, they are designed to wound, that’s why they use FMJ rounds (for the most part). A common hunting rifle, has ammunition that is designed to mushroom and inflict as much damage as possible, thus making it much more dangerous. In reply to penguinchris: Where I live (Montana), getting any gun is simply a matter of a 10 minute background check (might be different for handguns) however, automatic weapons require an ATF permit.

By: birdmechanical

birdmechanical — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:35:00 +0000

Well, the idea of a strong federal government that could regulate kind of got passed with the Constitution, after they threw out the Articles of Confederation, because it was a libertarian fantasy which failed miserably since it was impractical. Like most libertarian thought.

I mean, every modern country is a mix of both libertarian and socialist thought. If you ever ask a libertarian for example of their philosophies working, they give one relatively small country or city…because once again, it’s impractical.

Yet on the other hand, you can point to several countries with more “socialistic” in nature, which have better outcomes in several areas. The reverse is not true.

By: John Barnard

John Barnard — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:32:00 +0000

Rojaws, why do you have private healthcare? Are there drawbacks to relying on the NHS? What benefits do private healthcare provide that NHS doesn’t?

By: Missy Pants

Missy Pants — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:29:00 +0000

Manny – I can’t reply to directly… but thats seriously messed up… I’d love to see some stats on that. For profit prisons turn my stomach. And I had no idea inmates had to pay for their own food… thats insane!

By: Manny

Manny — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:53:00 +0000

They have prison farms. Also factories and call centers. It’s all under the name “prison industries”. Prisoners who work there get paid pennies, but they need those to cover the commissary costs for food, toiletries, and clothes.

By: Rojaws

Rojaws — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:48:00 +0000

But…two points here:

1: If you have an asault rifle and a modicum of hand eye coordination, its not a massive amount of work to make it full auto (especially if you have access to a machine shop). Similarly with respect to magazines (all you really need for that is access to the internet and a credit card).

2: If I go crazy, and decide to off a shedload of people, then its less likely that Im either going to be mentally competant to, or able to pull off correctly the manufacture of poison gas/explosives etc. However, if I go nuts and have an assault rifle in my cupboard…

Dont get me worng, I love guns. But I think theres something wrong with the american psyche that makes it dangerous for people to have them… lots of other countries have higher per-capita gun ownership, but far fewer nutjobs offing people in large numbers.

Maybe this guy had some huge medical bills, and figured if he was in jail, the government would have to pick them up?…

By: Rojaws

Rojaws — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:37:00 +0000

Holy shit. The US Health system is fucked, and it is fucking your people. The UK has its problems, but one shining thing it has (well, until the Tories finally sell it out to the US med companies) is the NHS and universal healthcare. I have private healthcare as well, but thats because a) I can afford it, and b) I want the benfits it gives. But this doesnt mean that I want to stop paying into the univeral system topay for myself and towards those that cant afford healthcare. Its about making sure that everyone can be a productive part of society, and looking out for your fellow human beings.

I have heard just about every argument against univeral healthcare, and guess what?

They. Are. All .Bullshit.

And they all come down to “why should I pay for someone elses’ healthcare?”

And the answer is “because its the right thing to do for you and them”

By: Curt S

Curt S — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:33:00 +0000

Gotcha.

By: Felton / Moderator

Felton / Moderator — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:29:00 +0000

Any thread on a post involving guns tends to devolve into a gun control vs. right-to-bear-arms flame war. It’d be nice to avoid that for a change.

By: Curt S

Curt S — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:23:00 +0000

Why does it need to stay on health care? No offense, but yes the main idea of the post was about health care but the guy also got shot. Why would some discussion about gun control be off topic?

By: Navin_Johnson

Navin_Johnson — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:00:00 +0000

So obtaining money by voluntary contributions is ‘vile’, but extracting it from taxpayers at gunpoint is not?

Yes, absolutely. Don’t want to be part of our social contract, then go off to your non-existent lawless fantasy land.

By: IronEdithKidd

IronEdithKidd — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:59:00 +0000

If there’s a draconian thing from a Dickens novel that you can think of, we have it. With the exception of orphanages. Those have been replaced with the foster care system which can be equally odious for any child subjected to it.

Like I said, right and truly fucked.

By: penguinchris

penguinchris — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:57:00 +0000

Let me state first that I agree with you 100%. I’m not arguing. But I’d like to point out that access to assault rifles is not actually willy nilly in the US.

Now, I’m from a state with particularly strict gun laws (New York), and the only other state I’ve lived in also has relatively strict gun laws as far as I know (California). So I may have the wrong impression. But even in the wild west states, it was my impression that assault rifles and machine guns and the like are highly restricted. In particular, you can’t legally get fully automatic weapons, and magazine sizes for automatic rifles are restricted.

The fact that people like this guy, the Columbine shooters, the Virginia Tech shooter, etc. got access to these kinds of weapons is a failure of the gun control measures that already exist – not a failure to have proper gun control measures in the first place. We can, of course, argue that with stricter gun control laws than those that already exist, it would make it harder for criminals to get these kinds of weapons.

I guess I’m not really making any sort of strong point here, I’m just saying, it’s not like you can just go to Wal-Mart and buy an assault rifle off the shelf. The US is insane, and gun laws in most states are insane, but not that insane.

By: AnthonyC

AnthonyC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:50:00 +0000

If the time limit on collection has passed, or the debt is not actually yours and you’ve told them to either stop contacting you or prove that they own it, then you could potentially cost the collectors a lot of money under the FDCPA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Debt_Collection_Practices_Act

Good look escaping from those calls!

By: Missy Pants

Missy Pants — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:47:00 +0000

Seriously. I’m sorry, I truly hope Mittens doesn’t win, with all my heart. :(

By: manybellsdown

manybellsdown — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:42:00 +0000

I think the biggest chunk of my recent surgeries was anesthesia services. Even the surgeons charged my insurance less than the anesthesiologist.

By: manybellsdown

manybellsdown — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:41:00 +0000

My ex is a master at dodging unpaid bills. He uses the ER as free health care all the time. His credit is already ruined and his phones get shut off on a regular basis for nonpayment, so they can’t find him to make him pay.
We’ve been divorced for almost 15 years, and I get collection calls for him. At a number that’s never been his, and I’ve remarried and changed my name. I’m still easier to locate than he is.

By: Missy Pants

Missy Pants — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:36:00 +0000

Wait, what? I was being hyperbolic, debtors prison is actually a thing, again? WTF?

Whats next? The company store? (Please don’t tell work farms and company stores are back too…)

By: IronEdithKidd

IronEdithKidd — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:32:00 +0000

It’s difficult getting so much as a shitty apartment if your credit score is below 650. Bankruptcy hits your score hard, if it was low to begin with, you’re looking at homelessness as a very real possible outcome.

This country is right fucked up. In reply to your question downthread (rhetorical though it was) is yes, it’s a return to fuedalism.

By: Felton / Moderator

Felton / Moderator — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:30:00 +0000

This comment isn’t aimed at anyone in particular, but the topic at hand is health care, not gun control. Please stay on topic.

By: Missy Pants

Missy Pants — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:18:00 +0000

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

By: Sarah Singingbird

Sarah Singingbird — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:17:00 +0000

the anti-universal healthcare argument is so empty and baseless its insanity more people dont see it for what it is: a ruse to protect the wealthy and powerful while those with the least suffer the most. we have already socialized corporate losses in this country to the tune of trillions of dollars but we cant socialize healthcare for all citizens for a few billion? we went to iraq and set up universal healthcare for the iraqi people, why dont americans deserve the same basic right of healthcare? should we start charging for elementary school too? why dont we just create a country of one class of super rich and powerful and one class of poor, destitute, and hopeless? oh yeah, we are already headed that way… ( -_-)

By: DaughterNumberThree

DaughterNumberThree — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:16:00 +0000

Good info, Dede. I hope this works for Caleb and the other victims.

By: DaughterNumberThree

DaughterNumberThree — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:15:00 +0000

Thank you, Manny, for raising this point and supplying good info on it.

A series of articles called Hounded in Minneapolis’s Star Tribune detailed this debtor’s prison system:

http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html?refer=y

By: Missy Pants

Missy Pants — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:12:00 +0000

So… debtors prison sound about right then?

And with the erosion of the middle class, the increase in the 1%’s real estate holdings and workers being beholden to their employee for health care, how is this NOT a return to feudalism?

By: Dave Lloyd

Dave Lloyd — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:11:00 +0000

It’s a bugger sight harder to slaughter a lot of people with a knife than it is with an automatic rifle!

By: David Hathaway

David Hathaway — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:57:00 +0000

My point I think was access. No civilised society should have access to guns willy nilly, especially ones specifically suited to mass murder.

I believe civilised societies should have access to free health care.

Strange sense of priorities I know but I am a liberal socialist pig according to prominent republicans… probably.

By: info

info — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:48:00 +0000

I would be extremely interested in learning how many and which countries share the moronic United States’ concept of health care, for I don’t remember hearing similar stories from anywhere else.

For what I know, the rest of the world has free public hospitals and completely optional private clinics for those who want a nicer environment during their stay – but public hospitals are actually just as nice and efficient as most clinics, and every medical doctor is required to work in public hospitals for a part of his time anyway, so the quality is roughly the same.