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	<title>Comments on: More men join the ranks of Former Eagle&#160;Scout</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: bkad</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1494230</link>
		<dc:creator>bkad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1494230</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve thought about this some more, Antinous, and I&#039;ve changed my mind. I agree with you. I was allowing myself to be biased by the fact I really only have good memories of scouting, and was thinking in the back of my head, &quot;no one in real life would be mean enough to do that to a kid.&quot; But, other people&#039;s experiences, to say nothing of court cases and news events, suggest the contrary. That people ARE that mean in real life.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve thought about this some more, Antinous, and I&#8217;ve changed my mind. I agree with you. I was allowing myself to be biased by the fact I really only have good memories of scouting, and was thinking in the back of my head, &#8220;no one in real life would be mean enough to do that to a kid.&#8221; But, other people&#8217;s experiences, to say nothing of court cases and news events, suggest the contrary. That people ARE that mean in real life.</p>
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		<title>By: secre</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1493737</link>
		<dc:creator>secre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 10:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1493737</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m from the UK and therefore actually have very little understanding of the way US policies etc work however something about this story touched me and I believe that more people should be alerted to the injustice that is occurring. I hope you don&#039;t mind that I wrote a piece based off this with my opinion which has links directly back to your article; http://socyberty.com/issues/eagle-scouts-becoming-former-eagle-scouts-over-blatant-discrimination/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m from the UK and therefore actually have very little understanding of the way US policies etc work however something about this story touched me and I believe that more people should be alerted to the injustice that is occurring. I hope you don&#8217;t mind that I wrote a piece based off this with my opinion which has links directly back to your article; <a href="http://socyberty.com/issues/eagle-scouts-becoming-former-eagle-scouts-over-blatant-discrimination/" rel="nofollow">http://socyberty.com/issues/eagle-scouts-becoming-former-eagle-scouts-over-blatant-discrimination/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Moore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1493487</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 02:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1493487</guid>
		<description>For those who say there should be a non-discriminatory alternative to the BSA in the US, there already is: the Baden-Powell Service Association is a co-ed Scouting group that does not discriminate based on sexual preference or religious belief (or lack thereof).  You can learn more about them at http://www.bpsa-us.org.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who say there should be a non-discriminatory alternative to the BSA in the US, there already is: the Baden-Powell Service Association is a co-ed Scouting group that does not discriminate based on sexual preference or religious belief (or lack thereof).  You can learn more about them at <a href="http://www.bpsa-us.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.bpsa-us.org</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Gorrell</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1493341</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Gorrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1493341</guid>
		<description>I think you are going to have to change the minds of the Catholic and Mormon churches first.  Either that or start bankrolling the BSA by yourself.  Our best bet is to quit and join an independent organization.  Then we wait to see if God changes his mind about gay people when he starts talking to the next Pope or the next Thomas Monson.    You never know, according to Mormons, God changed his mind about black people in 1978 and decided they were finally ready for his teachings. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are going to have to change the minds of the Catholic and Mormon churches first.  Either that or start bankrolling the BSA by yourself.  Our best bet is to quit and join an independent organization.  Then we wait to see if God changes his mind about gay people when he starts talking to the next Pope or the next Thomas Monson.    You never know, according to Mormons, God changed his mind about black people in 1978 and decided they were finally ready for his teachings. </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Holloway</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1493297</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Holloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1493297</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d appreciate some feedback.  I&#039;m running a cubscout pack, and am very disappointed in the decisions the national council is making on discrimination, but its not clear to me at all what to do about it.  In Massachusetts, and I&#039;m sure in many other communities across the country, we have written positions of non-discrimination.  Its not clear what national could do about this, even if they wanted to.  It seems clear that these Texans (they&#039;re based in Texas) have made the calculation that its worse to alienate conservative Christian churches than to alienate individuals concerned about discrimination.   Apparently there&#039;s push back against this from local BSA organizations, but I&#039;m not privy to what&#039;s going on.  Its not clear to me that walking away from local organizations with written policies of nondiscrimination is helping reform BSA, and it seems unfair to the kids in our pack.  Any information or guidance is appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d appreciate some feedback.  I&#8217;m running a cubscout pack, and am very disappointed in the decisions the national council is making on discrimination, but its not clear to me at all what to do about it.  In Massachusetts, and I&#8217;m sure in many other communities across the country, we have written positions of non-discrimination.  Its not clear what national could do about this, even if they wanted to.  It seems clear that these Texans (they&#8217;re based in Texas) have made the calculation that its worse to alienate conservative Christian churches than to alienate individuals concerned about discrimination.   Apparently there&#8217;s push back against this from local BSA organizations, but I&#8217;m not privy to what&#8217;s going on.  Its not clear to me that walking away from local organizations with written policies of nondiscrimination is helping reform BSA, and it seems unfair to the kids in our pack.  Any information or guidance is appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1493280</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1493280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As a former scout, I&#039;d say &quot;just do what you want at the local level.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;And when a single disgruntled parent rats you out to the national leadership, what do you do?  Expel the gay scout?  Dissolve the group and explain to everyone that you&#039;re doing it because of the gay scout?  You&#039;re playing with lives here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As a former scout, I&#8217;d say &#8220;just do what you want at the local level.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>And when a single disgruntled parent rats you out to the national leadership, what do you do?  Expel the gay scout?  Dissolve the group and explain to everyone that you&#8217;re doing it because of the gay scout?  You&#8217;re playing with lives here.</p>
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		<title>By: bkad</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492996</link>
		<dc:creator>bkad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492996</guid>
		<description>As I commented elsewhere, I was in scouts shortly pre-official stance, and similarly it wasn&#039;t an issue for our troop. When I read about it later, I actually thought, &quot;whoa, where did this come from?&quot;. Agree with Ian though. Before national took the official stance, individual troops could quietly ignore policy without difficulty. But now that national HAS taken a stance, participation even in a good rogue troop quietly endorses the national position to anyone who doesn&#039;t know you&#039;re the &quot;good kind of boy scouts&quot;.

I was pretty active in campus Christian ministry when I was in college. Though I am confident I never participated in that was anti-gay or anti-non-Christian myself, I now know I unwittingly supported some of the &quot;less friendly&quot; positions of the parent organizations. Because, how are people who don&#039;t know you to know you are the &#039;good kind of Christian&#039; and aren&#039;t going to hate on them.

Notably, this just makes life that much harder for gay Christians. But that&#039;s another topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I commented elsewhere, I was in scouts shortly pre-official stance, and similarly it wasn&#8217;t an issue for our troop. When I read about it later, I actually thought, &#8220;whoa, where did this come from?&#8221;. Agree with Ian though. Before national took the official stance, individual troops could quietly ignore policy without difficulty. But now that national HAS taken a stance, participation even in a good rogue troop quietly endorses the national position to anyone who doesn&#8217;t know you&#8217;re the &#8220;good kind of boy scouts&#8221;.</p>
<p>I was pretty active in campus Christian ministry when I was in college. Though I am confident I never participated in that was anti-gay or anti-non-Christian myself, I now know I unwittingly supported some of the &#8220;less friendly&#8221; positions of the parent organizations. Because, how are people who don&#8217;t know you to know you are the &#8216;good kind of Christian&#8217; and aren&#8217;t going to hate on them.</p>
<p>Notably, this just makes life that much harder for gay Christians. But that&#8217;s another topic.</p>
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		<title>By: bkad</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492994</link>
		<dc:creator>bkad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492994</guid>
		<description>Was it anti-gay back then, though? When I was in scouts in the 80s and early 90s, I don&#039;t think homosexuality was EVER discussed. And religion, well, it was explained that you had to have some sort of faith, but there were religious medals for everything from unitarian universalism to zorastrionism, and our local leadership was pretty relaxed on the issue.  It wasn&#039;t until after I left scouting, in my point of view, that they got all anti-gay and anti-atheist.  So, I&#039;m not ashamed of having belonged. I would only be ashamed if I still belonged today. And only then if I were reinforcing those bad teachings instead of ignoring or protesting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was it anti-gay back then, though? When I was in scouts in the 80s and early 90s, I don&#8217;t think homosexuality was EVER discussed. And religion, well, it was explained that you had to have some sort of faith, but there were religious medals for everything from unitarian universalism to zorastrionism, and our local leadership was pretty relaxed on the issue.  It wasn&#8217;t until after I left scouting, in my point of view, that they got all anti-gay and anti-atheist.  So, I&#8217;m not ashamed of having belonged. I would only be ashamed if I still belonged today. And only then if I were reinforcing those bad teachings instead of ignoring or protesting them.</p>
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		<title>By: bkad</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492992</link>
		<dc:creator>bkad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492992</guid>
		<description>Agree that children should not be cannon fodder. I hate it when people use their children to make political statements, whether I agree with those statements or not. But I do think this is a good way to put the BSA to the test, so to speak. My experience with the BSA is that is not so strictly hierarchical as all that. It&#039;s a local organization first, and it&#039;s unlikely the BSA even has that much insight into individual groups. Mind you, this may be something that varies throughout the USA. I can certainly imagine some troops being authoritarian, because you see the same sort of variation among churches (i.e. between extreme local autonomy vs national conformity).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree that children should not be cannon fodder. I hate it when people use their children to make political statements, whether I agree with those statements or not. But I do think this is a good way to put the BSA to the test, so to speak. My experience with the BSA is that is not so strictly hierarchical as all that. It&#8217;s a local organization first, and it&#8217;s unlikely the BSA even has that much insight into individual groups. Mind you, this may be something that varies throughout the USA. I can certainly imagine some troops being authoritarian, because you see the same sort of variation among churches (i.e. between extreme local autonomy vs national conformity).</p>
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		<title>By: bkad</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492987</link>
		<dc:creator>bkad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492987</guid>
		<description>As a former scout, I&#039;d say &quot;just do what you want at the local level.&quot; Scouting is really a local and community organization and when I was in scouts there were already significant differences from troop to troop in the way things were run and the emphasis placed on different aspects of scouting. Granted, this was in the North East US; other regions may have different cultural levels of respect for authority, so this may be more or less easy to do -- this is something that varies regionally throughout the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former scout, I&#8217;d say &#8220;just do what you want at the local level.&#8221; Scouting is really a local and community organization and when I was in scouts there were already significant differences from troop to troop in the way things were run and the emphasis placed on different aspects of scouting. Granted, this was in the North East US; other regions may have different cultural levels of respect for authority, so this may be more or less easy to do &#8212; this is something that varies regionally throughout the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine Rodittis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492874</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine Rodittis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 04:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492874</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s already there: First Amendment. Right to call anybody an asshole G-U-A-R-A-N-T-E-E-D. 

Unfortunately does not cover right to marry asshole if asshole is same gender as you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s already there: First Amendment. Right to call anybody an asshole G-U-A-R-A-N-T-E-E-D. </p>
<p>Unfortunately does not cover right to marry asshole if asshole is same gender as you. </p>
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		<title>By: grant Lofton</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492863</link>
		<dc:creator>grant Lofton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 03:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492863</guid>
		<description>Think about it. You are teenager, attracted to the male sex. Soo ! you join a group of all males. If I was a teenage  male, attacted to females, should I not be allowed to join  a group of females and be allowed, the same treatment and access to activities(dressing room, tents,shower ETC. as a female group member.  I would not want my daughter in that sistuation at camp.
Now I think if a group, was make up same sex attracted persons, then that would be OK.
 SO START A GROUP, THAT HAS NO LIMITS ON YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE(BOY-BOY-GIRL-GIRL,BOY-GIRL, BOY-BOY OR GIRL ET)C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think about it. You are teenager, attracted to the male sex. Soo ! you join a group of all males. If I was a teenage  male, attacted to females, should I not be allowed to join  a group of females and be allowed, the same treatment and access to activities(dressing room, tents,shower ETC. as a female group member.  I would not want my daughter in that sistuation at camp.<br />
Now I think if a group, was make up same sex attracted persons, then that would be OK.<br />
 SO START A GROUP, THAT HAS NO LIMITS ON YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE(BOY-BOY-GIRL-GIRL,BOY-GIRL, BOY-BOY OR GIRL ET)C.</p>
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		<title>By: David Atchley</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492839</link>
		<dc:creator>David Atchley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492839</guid>
		<description>I returned my Eagle back in 2008 because of my issues with the BSA National policy.  At that time, I was Den Leader and Cubmaster for my oldest son&#039;s Cub Scout Pack. I had proposed a non-discrimination policy just for our local Pack and called the local council to run it by them.  I was told in no uncertain terms that if we did put in place such a policy our Pack&#039;s charter would be revoked.  This prompted a long discussion with the Council rep about the meaning of Scouts, the wider Scouting movement, the promise and the law. After finding out that I was an atheist, he told me that I was not the kind of adult leader the BSA was looking for and to find another organization to get involved with.

So I did.

I&#039;m currently the Nat&#039;l Commissioner for the Baden-Powell Service Association (BPSA - http://bpsa-us.org).  We&#039;re a traditional style Scouting association and are dedicated to providing Scouting to all youth and adults, regardless of gender (yes we&#039;re co-ed at all ages), sexual-orientation, religion or no-religion, or any other differentiating factors.  Scouting was a very important part of my growing up and I learned many things from those experiences.  But after myself, and others, have been fighting the BSA for decades over their membership policies with absolutely no progress (which the BSA clearly restated in it&#039;s unanimous decision last week to continue the policy) I decided to take the only leverage I had to make changes, my membership and my money, and go else where.

I would encourage all my fellow Eagle Scouts who have made the sincere and hard thought decision to return their Eagle to BSA National to check out our program and Association.  We could use the help and enthusiasm of experienced, concerned and morally upright Scouters such as you to help us get off the ground and spread the word about an alternative.  

A lot of former Scouts and parents won&#039;t let their children participate in BSA scouting because of their policy decisions - and rightfully so.  But they should have an option available to them for pursing Scouting, maintaining their integrity and setting a forth-right example for their own children. 

We can make it happen if we work together on something worth supporting!

I&#039;m more than happy to answer questions or comments about the program as well, so get in touch with us through the contact portion of our web site or via our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/bpsa.us

I&#039;m touched by all of the Eagles setting examples like this. Continue Scouting...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I returned my Eagle back in 2008 because of my issues with the BSA National policy.  At that time, I was Den Leader and Cubmaster for my oldest son&#8217;s Cub Scout Pack. I had proposed a non-discrimination policy just for our local Pack and called the local council to run it by them.  I was told in no uncertain terms that if we did put in place such a policy our Pack&#8217;s charter would be revoked.  This prompted a long discussion with the Council rep about the meaning of Scouts, the wider Scouting movement, the promise and the law. After finding out that I was an atheist, he told me that I was not the kind of adult leader the BSA was looking for and to find another organization to get involved with.</p>
<p>So I did.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently the Nat&#8217;l Commissioner for the Baden-Powell Service Association (BPSA &#8211; <a href="http://bpsa-us.org" rel="nofollow">http://bpsa-us.org</a>).  We&#8217;re a traditional style Scouting association and are dedicated to providing Scouting to all youth and adults, regardless of gender (yes we&#8217;re co-ed at all ages), sexual-orientation, religion or no-religion, or any other differentiating factors.  Scouting was a very important part of my growing up and I learned many things from those experiences.  But after myself, and others, have been fighting the BSA for decades over their membership policies with absolutely no progress (which the BSA clearly restated in it&#8217;s unanimous decision last week to continue the policy) I decided to take the only leverage I had to make changes, my membership and my money, and go else where.</p>
<p>I would encourage all my fellow Eagle Scouts who have made the sincere and hard thought decision to return their Eagle to BSA National to check out our program and Association.  We could use the help and enthusiasm of experienced, concerned and morally upright Scouters such as you to help us get off the ground and spread the word about an alternative.  </p>
<p>A lot of former Scouts and parents won&#8217;t let their children participate in BSA scouting because of their policy decisions &#8211; and rightfully so.  But they should have an option available to them for pursing Scouting, maintaining their integrity and setting a forth-right example for their own children. </p>
<p>We can make it happen if we work together on something worth supporting!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more than happy to answer questions or comments about the program as well, so get in touch with us through the contact portion of our web site or via our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/bpsa.us</p>
<p>I&#8217;m touched by all of the Eagles setting examples like this. Continue Scouting&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: johndominik</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492617</link>
		<dc:creator>johndominik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492617</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m an Eagle Scout myself.  When I earned it (in 1981) there was no talk of the LGBT, etc movement.  I am now an adult leader in a Boy Scout Troop to which my son belongs.  

I&#039;m also exceedingly fortunate that our local council here in Minneapolis has essentially told National to &quot;stuff it&quot; when it comes to this particular policy.  The spokesman for our local council was recently quoted in the paper saying that we will continue our policy (started ten years ago) of allowing all young men to join if they so wish, and to include anyone who wants to be a leader.  Not every council agrees with National - and while I&#039;m sure a majority do, I&#039;m glad that my council is choosing to be a leader on this issue.

When I read these letters of men returning their awards, I knew just exactly how painful it was for them to write - being an Eagle Scout is a great deal of who I am, whether I tell people or not.  I strive to live by the values I have been taught by the Boy Scouts - but I&#039;m also well aware that some of the people running the BSA these days are idiots.

In my personal opinion, the best thing that an Eagle Scout who is unhappy with the current policies could do would be to stay involved in the movement, and to tell the young boys they work with that everyone - EVERYONE - has value, and the right to exist and belong - and eventually, some day, some of these young men will be involved at the highest levels of Scouting and will make the change that has to happen.   Most of the current leadership of the BSA are former Scouts - and that means from the district executives - the first-level &quot;paid&quot; folks that work with us volunteers - all the way up to Mr. Perez and Mr. Manzucca.  If we invest the time in training our youth today, maybe some day soon they can make a positive difference.

Scouting isn&#039;t what happens in a boardroom in Texas.  It happens in countless parks and in homes and in the out of doors and in the hearts and heads of the kids.  Very few of these kids will have any sort of meaningful interaction with anyone at or from National - we&#039;re where the rubber hits the road.  I&#039;m hopeful enough of us will make a difference so that, some day, we&#039;ll be able to look back at this as a particularly shameful, but educational period in our history.  If we can&#039;t, then the Boy Scouts themselves will be synonymous with the KKK and other bigoted groups of history.

I&#039;m posting this under my real name, even though I fully expect that one or more of the less tolerant leaders of our local Troop might eventually find it and call into question my suitability as a leader.  Why would I do something so &quot;stupid&quot;?  Because maybe it will inspire some kid to do something brave, and not do something &quot;stupid&quot;.   There&#039;s been too damned much pain and anguish because of something that people are born with - and that needs to stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m an Eagle Scout myself.  When I earned it (in 1981) there was no talk of the LGBT, etc movement.  I am now an adult leader in a Boy Scout Troop to which my son belongs.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also exceedingly fortunate that our local council here in Minneapolis has essentially told National to &#8220;stuff it&#8221; when it comes to this particular policy.  The spokesman for our local council was recently quoted in the paper saying that we will continue our policy (started ten years ago) of allowing all young men to join if they so wish, and to include anyone who wants to be a leader.  Not every council agrees with National &#8211; and while I&#8217;m sure a majority do, I&#8217;m glad that my council is choosing to be a leader on this issue.</p>
<p>When I read these letters of men returning their awards, I knew just exactly how painful it was for them to write &#8211; being an Eagle Scout is a great deal of who I am, whether I tell people or not.  I strive to live by the values I have been taught by the Boy Scouts &#8211; but I&#8217;m also well aware that some of the people running the BSA these days are idiots.</p>
<p>In my personal opinion, the best thing that an Eagle Scout who is unhappy with the current policies could do would be to stay involved in the movement, and to tell the young boys they work with that everyone &#8211; EVERYONE &#8211; has value, and the right to exist and belong &#8211; and eventually, some day, some of these young men will be involved at the highest levels of Scouting and will make the change that has to happen.   Most of the current leadership of the BSA are former Scouts &#8211; and that means from the district executives &#8211; the first-level &#8220;paid&#8221; folks that work with us volunteers &#8211; all the way up to Mr. Perez and Mr. Manzucca.  If we invest the time in training our youth today, maybe some day soon they can make a positive difference.</p>
<p>Scouting isn&#8217;t what happens in a boardroom in Texas.  It happens in countless parks and in homes and in the out of doors and in the hearts and heads of the kids.  Very few of these kids will have any sort of meaningful interaction with anyone at or from National &#8211; we&#8217;re where the rubber hits the road.  I&#8217;m hopeful enough of us will make a difference so that, some day, we&#8217;ll be able to look back at this as a particularly shameful, but educational period in our history.  If we can&#8217;t, then the Boy Scouts themselves will be synonymous with the KKK and other bigoted groups of history.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m posting this under my real name, even though I fully expect that one or more of the less tolerant leaders of our local Troop might eventually find it and call into question my suitability as a leader.  Why would I do something so &#8220;stupid&#8221;?  Because maybe it will inspire some kid to do something brave, and not do something &#8220;stupid&#8221;.   There&#8217;s been too damned much pain and anguish because of something that people are born with &#8211; and that needs to stop.</p>
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		<title>By: RLWemm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492571</link>
		<dc:creator>RLWemm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492571</guid>
		<description> An excellent idea!  They will, however, go down in history on the &quot;right side&quot; of compassion and integrity. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> An excellent idea!  They will, however, go down in history on the &#8220;right side&#8221; of compassion and integrity. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Newell</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492403</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Newell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492403</guid>
		<description>An organization has the right to determine what mõres to adopt. The boyscouts have a right to exclude athiests and members of the gay/lesbian community...

I also have the right to send my eagle badge back, which is what I&#039;ll be doing tomorrow. I&#039;m proud of my achievement, not the organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An organization has the right to determine what mõres to adopt. The boyscouts have a right to exclude athiests and members of the gay/lesbian community&#8230;</p>
<p>I also have the right to send my eagle badge back, which is what I&#8217;ll be doing tomorrow. I&#8217;m proud of my achievement, not the organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1492113</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1492113</guid>
		<description>When I first read about BSA&#039;s recent ruling, I was unsurprised at the content but upset that the organization discussed their decision behind closed doors. I pushed it to the back of my mind. I am an Eagle Scout, but have not done anything scout-related since I moved to attend university a year ago.

However, it has always troubled me that I dedicated so much to an organization in which, as a non-theist, I was supposedly unwelcome. In my old troop, we never had to hide: I received my Eagle as an open non-theist (although I needed to articulate how I embodied &quot;duty to god&quot; without worship) and I knew two Eagles from my Troop who were openly gay. But outside our troop, at council and national events, summer camps and the like, it was clear that some of us weren&#039;t wanted.

Reading these letters has made me realize that the incongruence between my troop and the organization with which we were chartered is not something I can continue to ignore as I did just a few years ago. I will always cherish the lessons I learned and people I met in my troop. Four years ago, I section-hiked 150 miles of the Pacific Crest Trail in a week with other members of my troop, an adventure I never would have sought on my own.

But while I will always appreciate the times I had in my troop and speak well of them, I cannot in good conscience do the same for the overarching organization. I don&#039;t have my scouting things with me in my small apartment. But when I visit my parents in a few weeks, I intend to add my voice to the others who choose to remove their association with the BSA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I first read about BSA&#8217;s recent ruling, I was unsurprised at the content but upset that the organization discussed their decision behind closed doors. I pushed it to the back of my mind. I am an Eagle Scout, but have not done anything scout-related since I moved to attend university a year ago.</p>
<p>However, it has always troubled me that I dedicated so much to an organization in which, as a non-theist, I was supposedly unwelcome. In my old troop, we never had to hide: I received my Eagle as an open non-theist (although I needed to articulate how I embodied &#8220;duty to god&#8221; without worship) and I knew two Eagles from my Troop who were openly gay. But outside our troop, at council and national events, summer camps and the like, it was clear that some of us weren&#8217;t wanted.</p>
<p>Reading these letters has made me realize that the incongruence between my troop and the organization with which we were chartered is not something I can continue to ignore as I did just a few years ago. I will always cherish the lessons I learned and people I met in my troop. Four years ago, I section-hiked 150 miles of the Pacific Crest Trail in a week with other members of my troop, an adventure I never would have sought on my own.</p>
<p>But while I will always appreciate the times I had in my troop and speak well of them, I cannot in good conscience do the same for the overarching organization. I don&#8217;t have my scouting things with me in my small apartment. But when I visit my parents in a few weeks, I intend to add my voice to the others who choose to remove their association with the BSA.</p>
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		<title>By: StarryGordon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491888</link>
		<dc:creator>StarryGordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491888</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure why we should concern ourselves with the internal particulars of this religious parody of a military organization, other than that such things exist at all.  Similarly, I don&#039;t really care what the Roman Catholics, the Mormons, or the Ku Klux Klan do, as long as they don&#039;t bother other people.  I suppose they, like the Boy Scouts and many other religious organizations, could be seen as a form of child abuse, but here the cure, intervention, is usually worse than the disease.  One must settle for hoping that at least some of their victims will escape from them without permanent damage.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure why we should concern ourselves with the internal particulars of this religious parody of a military organization, other than that such things exist at all.  Similarly, I don&#8217;t really care what the Roman Catholics, the Mormons, or the Ku Klux Klan do, as long as they don&#8217;t bother other people.  I suppose they, like the Boy Scouts and many other religious organizations, could be seen as a form of child abuse, but here the cure, intervention, is usually worse than the disease.  One must settle for hoping that at least some of their victims will escape from them without permanent damage.  </p>
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		<title>By: Leslie Smith Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491866</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie Smith Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 13:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491866</guid>
		<description>There should be a petition that states you want the policy to be changed and why. You will not support the BSA with your leadership or $$$ donations until they do.  If an Eagle wishes to renounce their membership they can, but more importantly their voice needs to be heard.  It is only through volumes of numbers that change will come about in an open forum everyone can readily see~ no secret committee of 11.. Right now they are saying the majority of their members agree with the present policy..I don&#039;t remember anyone asking me and I have been a member/volunteer for fifteen years. You also should be sending this letter/petition to NESA. CHANGE.ORG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be a petition that states you want the policy to be changed and why. You will not support the BSA with your leadership or $$$ donations until they do.  If an Eagle wishes to renounce their membership they can, but more importantly their voice needs to be heard.  It is only through volumes of numbers that change will come about in an open forum everyone can readily see~ no secret committee of 11.. Right now they are saying the majority of their members agree with the present policy..I don&#8217;t remember anyone asking me and I have been a member/volunteer for fifteen years. You also should be sending this letter/petition to NESA. CHANGE.ORG</p>
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		<title>By: Brooklynne Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491813</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooklynne Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 08:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491813</guid>
		<description>Remember though not all of us eagle scouts are men... ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember though not all of us eagle scouts are men&#8230; ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: JonS</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491734</link>
		<dc:creator>JonS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 04:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491734</guid>
		<description> I love the way they list inclusiveness as a BSA &#039;thing&#039; then a couple of slides later elaborate on how they&#039;re going to exclude people.

Irony, much?

Oh. Wait. This is America ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I love the way they list inclusiveness as a BSA &#8216;thing&#8217; then a couple of slides later elaborate on how they&#8217;re going to exclude people.</p>
<p>Irony, much?</p>
<p>Oh. Wait. This is America ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Parliment</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491706</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Parliment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 03:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491706</guid>
		<description>As an Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow member I would love to see more alternative scouting groups, and would consider volunteering for one after college, but I also don&#039;t want to give up on the idea of the BSA catching up with the times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow member I would love to see more alternative scouting groups, and would consider volunteering for one after college, but I also don&#8217;t want to give up on the idea of the BSA catching up with the times.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Parliment</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491698</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Parliment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491698</guid>
		<description>Can we put that in the Constitution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we put that in the Constitution?</p>
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		<title>By: Tess</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1491588</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 00:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1491588</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a really interesting thing to have found.


SOMEONE was sloppy with some dirty laundry there.  I mean, it&#039;s pretty much what happens behind the scenes in such situations, but the cold calculation involved might startle some people.  

I do believe it deserves to be made public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a really interesting thing to have found.</p>
<p>SOMEONE was sloppy with some dirty laundry there.  I mean, it&#8217;s pretty much what happens behind the scenes in such situations, but the cold calculation involved might startle some people.  </p>
<p>I do believe it deserves to be made public.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1489728</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1489728</guid>
		<description> Or you could continue to run the same program, but sever connections to the national BSA.  They don&#039;t hold a copyright on camping, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Or you could continue to run the same program, but sever connections to the national BSA.  They don&#8217;t hold a copyright on camping, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1489723</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1489723</guid>
		<description>&quot;I find it a bit hard to believe someone who ever saw benefit in Scouting is making the comparison to the organizations you list.&quot;

She&#039;s not alone.  I was a scout, but discouraged my son from joining by explaining why.  I too see them as a smoother version of the KKK, at least at the upper levels.  They&#039;re just better at hiding their bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I find it a bit hard to believe someone who ever saw benefit in Scouting is making the comparison to the organizations you list.&#8221;</p>
<p>She&#8217;s not alone.  I was a scout, but discouraged my son from joining by explaining why.  I too see them as a smoother version of the KKK, at least at the upper levels.  They&#8217;re just better at hiding their bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1489724</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1489724</guid>
		<description>Do you honestly feel, the BSA has the personel available to tag, record, &amp; store all this material?  I hope I&#039;m still around when that day comes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you honestly feel, the BSA has the personel available to tag, record, &amp; store all this material?  I hope I&#8217;m still around when that day comes.</p>
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		<title>By: youwantmetodotwothings</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1489712</link>
		<dc:creator>youwantmetodotwothings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1489712</guid>
		<description>I will deal with that situation when and if it happens. I cannot abandon the kids that are involved now and have them miss out on the true skills and lessons that scouting can offer.  My son has made many friends and loves the things we do as a pack, I cannot take that away from him now over an issue he is to young to comprehend. 

I became the leader to make sure that there is no discrimination (this is not a new BSA policy against homosexuality), hazing, or overbearing leadership in our group. Scouting is supposed to be fun and all about the kids and learning.  

Your comment about using gay children as &quot;political cannon fodder&quot; is out of line and is what the current membership of the pack would become if I were to suddenly quit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will deal with that situation when and if it happens. I cannot abandon the kids that are involved now and have them miss out on the true skills and lessons that scouting can offer.  My son has made many friends and loves the things we do as a pack, I cannot take that away from him now over an issue he is to young to comprehend. </p>
<p>I became the leader to make sure that there is no discrimination (this is not a new BSA policy against homosexuality), hazing, or overbearing leadership in our group. Scouting is supposed to be fun and all about the kids and learning.  </p>
<p>Your comment about using gay children as &#8220;political cannon fodder&#8221; is out of line and is what the current membership of the pack would become if I were to suddenly quit.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1489709</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1489709</guid>
		<description> Nah, you won&#039;t break thru the religion barrier to the uppermost levels.  Better off launching your own organization, or joining one of the tolerant existing ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Nah, you won&#8217;t break thru the religion barrier to the uppermost levels.  Better off launching your own organization, or joining one of the tolerant existing ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html#comment-1489706</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=172999#comment-1489706</guid>
		<description> Get together with other parents and take your kids camping, do projects, whatever you want.  You&#039;ll probably like it more since you&#039;ll be more involved with your kids in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Get together with other parents and take your kids camping, do projects, whatever you want.  You&#8217;ll probably like it more since you&#8217;ll be more involved with your kids in the process.</p>
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