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	<title>Comments on: What do Christian fundamentalists have against set&#160;theory?</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey P Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504876</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey P Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 21:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504876</guid>
		<description>I think the motive can be tied to a paraphrase of Kronecker&#039;s objection. &quot;God created the natural numbers. Everything else was created by the devil.&quot;


We also need to remember that Cantor was a mystic. He claimed that his understanding of transfinite numbers were communicated to him by God. So from the beginning the controversy over Cantor&#039;s theories had a religious nature to it.

My guess is that antipathy to set theory among Fundamentalists began early, and is just carried on to this day out of tradition and tribalism. 

It would take someone doing actual work (so not me) to look at the historical record to see if this is the origins or whether (as also seems possible) that it was just a reaction to &quot;new math&quot; in the 1970s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the motive can be tied to a paraphrase of Kronecker&#8217;s objection. &#8220;God created the natural numbers. Everything else was created by the devil.&#8221;</p>
<p>We also need to remember that Cantor was a mystic. He claimed that his understanding of transfinite numbers were communicated to him by God. So from the beginning the controversy over Cantor&#8217;s theories had a religious nature to it.</p>
<p>My guess is that antipathy to set theory among Fundamentalists began early, and is just carried on to this day out of tradition and tribalism. </p>
<p>It would take someone doing actual work (so not me) to look at the historical record to see if this is the origins or whether (as also seems possible) that it was just a reaction to &#8220;new math&#8221; in the 1970s.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Molstad</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504873</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Molstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504873</guid>
		<description>whoops, computer trouble</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whoops, computer trouble</p>
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		<title>By: gwern</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504852</link>
		<dc:creator>gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 19:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504852</guid>
		<description>Actually, I did some looking into it, and the book definitely doesn&#039;t exist.

(Although I can&#039;t know this for sure since he&#039;s not around to ask. In contrast, Neil Gaiman referenced a book of Japanese folkstories at the end of _Dreamhunters_, and after failing to find any trace of it, I asked him and he eventually did admit he was pulling a Borges.) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I did some looking into it, and the book definitely doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>(Although I can&#8217;t know this for sure since he&#8217;s not around to ask. In contrast, Neil Gaiman referenced a book of Japanese folkstories at the end of _Dreamhunters_, and after failing to find any trace of it, I asked him and he eventually did admit he was pulling a Borges.) </p>
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		<title>By: Mordicai</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504836</link>
		<dc:creator>Mordicai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 19:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504836</guid>
		<description>I still own a Creationist dinosaur book that does in fact actually go on &amp; on about bombardier beetles &amp; how that way dinosaurs could breathe fire &amp; that is totally how medieval knights fought dragons.  

It is not a joke.  Well, it IS a joke, but they aren&#039;t joking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still own a Creationist dinosaur book that does in fact actually go on &amp; on about bombardier beetles &amp; how that way dinosaurs could breathe fire &amp; that is totally how medieval knights fought dragons.  </p>
<p>It is not a joke.  Well, it IS a joke, but they aren&#8217;t joking.</p>
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		<title>By: tubacat</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504450</link>
		<dc:creator>tubacat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 02:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504450</guid>
		<description> So true ...  (oops - there&#039;s that preference for certainty again...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> So true &#8230;  (oops &#8211; there&#8217;s that preference for certainty again&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: lither</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504378</link>
		<dc:creator>lither</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504378</guid>
		<description>The discussion of the fundamentalist attitude to the infinite took me back to 1990. Sitting in the Deadwood in Iowa City, I was introduced as a professor of mathematics to a very personable young lady, who immediately said that she&#039;d heard that mathematicians had proved that there were different kinds of infinity. I allowed as how that was so, and that while it wasn&#039;t exactly suited to bar conversation, it wasn&#039;t very difficult to understand, and I&#039;d be happy to explain in a quieter setting of her choosing. I was assailed with a long rant, not on sexism or bad pick-up techniques, but on how I was misusing the word &quot;infinite&quot;, which could apply only to God. Attempts to suggest that she could use &quot;infinite&quot; her way and I would continue to use the technical sense were met with scorn. I was eventually allowed to return to my beer, and resolved never to use the word again except amongst like-minded perverts.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The discussion of the fundamentalist attitude to the infinite took me back to 1990. Sitting in the Deadwood in Iowa City, I was introduced as a professor of mathematics to a very personable young lady, who immediately said that she&#8217;d heard that mathematicians had proved that there were different kinds of infinity. I allowed as how that was so, and that while it wasn&#8217;t exactly suited to bar conversation, it wasn&#8217;t very difficult to understand, and I&#8217;d be happy to explain in a quieter setting of her choosing. I was assailed with a long rant, not on sexism or bad pick-up techniques, but on how I was misusing the word &#8220;infinite&#8221;, which could apply only to God. Attempts to suggest that she could use &#8220;infinite&#8221; her way and I would continue to use the technical sense were met with scorn. I was eventually allowed to return to my beer, and resolved never to use the word again except amongst like-minded perverts.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy Dianne Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504316</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy Dianne Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 22:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504316</guid>
		<description>&quot;Having just broken the water pitcher&quot; is mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Having just broken the water pitcher&#8221; is mine.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1504261</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1504261</guid>
		<description>modernism DOES NOT SAY ALL IDEAS ARE EQUAL, nor that there is no right and wrong

You are thinking of - and also misstating, though not quite as badly - postmodernism.

Modernism posits right and wrong and true and false, it just says those are arrived at through reason and science, not through obeying authority or reading the bible.

man, you are SO FAR OFF the mark with that.

sheesh
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>modernism DOES NOT SAY ALL IDEAS ARE EQUAL, nor that there is no right and wrong</p>
<p>You are thinking of &#8211; and also misstating, though not quite as badly &#8211; postmodernism.</p>
<p>Modernism posits right and wrong and true and false, it just says those are arrived at through reason and science, not through obeying authority or reading the bible.</p>
<p>man, you are SO FAR OFF the mark with that.</p>
<p>sheesh</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny Kiehlmann</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1503741</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny Kiehlmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1503741</guid>
		<description>I dunno -- sounds like the author of the post may be confused.
 
For a start, looking at set theory as the same as cantor&#039;s work is a bit confusing. You need to look at the concept of new math,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math which was a trend in the US in the 1960s to teach primary school kids set theory and working in different bases, rather than focussing on elementary arithmetic. Which is why so many US people educated then can&#039;t add up.  It&#039;s a pedagogically questionable decision, and selling your textbooks as working with traditional maths instead of &quot;modern set theory&quot; does actually make sense and is potentially a good idea. Even if it is somewhat usual these days, and is using &quot;modern&quot; to mean &quot;the cutting-edge ideas of the &#039;60s&quot;.  This seems a lot more likely than fundamentalists being worried about concerns of the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis taking youngsters&#039; focus away from the Almighty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno &#8212; sounds like the author of the post may be confused.</p>
<p>For a start, looking at set theory as the same as cantor&#8217;s work is a bit confusing. You need to look at the concept of new math,  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math</a> which was a trend in the US in the 1960s to teach primary school kids set theory and working in different bases, rather than focussing on elementary arithmetic. Which is why so many US people educated then can&#8217;t add up.  It&#8217;s a pedagogically questionable decision, and selling your textbooks as working with traditional maths instead of &#8220;modern set theory&#8221; does actually make sense and is potentially a good idea. Even if it is somewhat usual these days, and is using &#8220;modern&#8221; to mean &#8220;the cutting-edge ideas of the &#8217;60s&#8221;.  This seems a lot more likely than fundamentalists being worried about concerns of the Generalised Continuum Hypothesis taking youngsters&#8217; focus away from the Almighty.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Cross</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1503172</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1503172</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s because when people draw these they inadvertently end up drawing vaginas, and there&#039;s nothing that makes a fundamentalist more angry than a vagina. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s because when people draw these they inadvertently end up drawing vaginas, and there&#8217;s nothing that makes a fundamentalist more angry than a vagina. </p>
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		<title>By: Tim Roberts</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1503118</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1503118</guid>
		<description>&quot;God made the integers: all else is the work of man&quot;?  (all right, you have no need of that hypothesis).  

There is a theory that (representational) sculpture is much easier than drawing.  The human figure is in there all the time - all the sculptor has to do is to  chip off the superfluous material.  Is mathematics like that?

How could you have a &#039;physical infinity?  How would you check it, physically, in a finite amount of time ? Wouldn&#039;t you need to check it?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;God made the integers: all else is the work of man&#8221;?  (all right, you have no need of that hypothesis).  </p>
<p>There is a theory that (representational) sculpture is much easier than drawing.  The human figure is in there all the time &#8211; all the sculptor has to do is to  chip off the superfluous material.  Is mathematics like that?</p>
<p>How could you have a &#8216;physical infinity?  How would you check it, physically, in a finite amount of time ? Wouldn&#8217;t you need to check it?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Forest</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1503054</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Forest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 20:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1503054</guid>
		<description>Please, just let me keep my Jazz!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, just let me keep my Jazz!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Meiring</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502791</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Meiring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 17:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502791</guid>
		<description>So, A Beka is more likely pre-modernist, not post-modernist. The reason that a pre-modernist might be against modernism is because it puts a possibly unwarrented focus on the ability of man.

Like a modernist, a pre-modernist believes in absolute truth. It has nothing to do with  wanting to &quot;just do your own thing&quot;.  I&#039;m not sure how the author argued this, considering that he just accused fundamentalists of believing mathematical truth to be absolute in reality.

The biggest flaw with this article I&#039;d say is that the author doesn&#039;t appear to know enough Mathematics or philosophy.  The idea alluded to with his first quote

&quot;Unlike the &quot;modern math&quot; theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute...&quot;

is not limited to theists. The debate about whether logic/truth is arbitrary or necessary extends far beyond theism/atheism. There are strong transcendental arguments as to why it would be necessary, and people do believe this- theist or not.  Beck only teaches Platonism as an implication of Theism, which is not wrong in itself.
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, A Beka is more likely pre-modernist, not post-modernist. The reason that a pre-modernist might be against modernism is because it puts a possibly unwarrented focus on the ability of man.</p>
<p>Like a modernist, a pre-modernist believes in absolute truth. It has nothing to do with  wanting to &#8220;just do your own thing&#8221;.  I&#8217;m not sure how the author argued this, considering that he just accused fundamentalists of believing mathematical truth to be absolute in reality.</p>
<p>The biggest flaw with this article I&#8217;d say is that the author doesn&#8217;t appear to know enough Mathematics or philosophy.  The idea alluded to with his first quote</p>
<p>&#8220;Unlike the &#8220;modern math&#8221; theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>is not limited to theists. The debate about whether logic/truth is arbitrary or necessary extends far beyond theism/atheism. There are strong transcendental arguments as to why it would be necessary, and people do believe this- theist or not.  Beck only teaches Platonism as an implication of Theism, which is not wrong in itself.</p>
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		<title>By: mrdcbrush</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502702</link>
		<dc:creator>mrdcbrush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502702</guid>
		<description>Just remember fundamentalist christians are a set. Not all Christians are in that weird set. We may be weird though, which puts us in the weird set with other weirdos. I for one have no problem with evolution, especially because it means that God didn&#039;t make me this awkward on purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just remember fundamentalist christians are a set. Not all Christians are in that weird set. We may be weird though, which puts us in the weird set with other weirdos. I for one have no problem with evolution, especially because it means that God didn&#8217;t make me this awkward on purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: John Harvey</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502663</link>
		<dc:creator>John Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502663</guid>
		<description>Do you really think the wealthy 1% will be sending their offspring to these schools teaching superstition and nonsense? It is a plan so elegantly simple and densely diabolical … teach the proles mythology, teach my kids science. Imagination is not required to envision the victorious in this scheme. http://inkandpaperguy.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/usaandreligion/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really think the wealthy 1% will be sending their offspring to these schools teaching superstition and nonsense? It is a plan so elegantly simple and densely diabolical … teach the proles mythology, teach my kids science. Imagination is not required to envision the victorious in this scheme. http://inkandpaperguy.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/usaandreligion/</p>
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		<title>By: benher</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502651</link>
		<dc:creator>benher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502651</guid>
		<description>@boingboing-7160c7db52df96e5fe196a6c9ce73f83:disqus  &quot;It&#039;s hard to be shocked by stuff that you long ago forgot isn&#039;t general public knowledge.&quot;

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this. I can&#039;t tell you how much this particular line resonated with me. 

I went to a Fundie school in Minneapolis from 1-9th grade. In history we learned all about revivals and nothing about America&#039;s involvement in Vietnam - all from Bob Jones, who routinely came to our weekly chapel sessions to convince us to avoid &quot;secular&quot; universities, etc.

There weren&#039;t too many schools like that; it would be an incredible coincidence if we were alumni.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@boingboing-7160c7db52df96e5fe196a6c9ce73f83:disqus  &#8221;It&#8217;s hard to be shocked by stuff that you long ago forgot isn&#8217;t general public knowledge.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this. I can&#8217;t tell you how much this particular line resonated with me. </p>
<p>I went to a Fundie school in Minneapolis from 1-9th grade. In history we learned all about revivals and nothing about America&#8217;s involvement in Vietnam &#8211; all from Bob Jones, who routinely came to our weekly chapel sessions to convince us to avoid &#8220;secular&#8221; universities, etc.</p>
<p>There weren&#8217;t too many schools like that; it would be an incredible coincidence if we were alumni.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Fahnestalk</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502615</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Fahnestalk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502615</guid>
		<description>I think you mean &quot;suckling&quot; pigs, not &quot;sucking&quot; pigs--some faiths would argue that all pigs suck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you mean &#8220;suckling&#8221; pigs, not &#8220;sucking&#8221; pigs&#8211;some faiths would argue that all pigs suck!</p>
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		<title>By: Schifter</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502590</link>
		<dc:creator>Schifter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502590</guid>
		<description> Dude, I wish had a retort for that, but you&#039;ve liked summed it up so summarily, there is nothing left to be unsaid, or nothing, or something or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Dude, I wish had a retort for that, but you&#8217;ve liked summed it up so summarily, there is nothing left to be unsaid, or nothing, or something or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Harald Andrés Helfgott</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502526</link>
		<dc:creator>Harald Andrés Helfgott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502526</guid>
		<description>I agree that this is the correct statement. This &quot;paradox&quot;, by the way, is easy - there is no such barber. So it isn&#039;t really a paradox.

What you can have is actual paradoxes phrased a bit like that. Russell&#039;s paradox: Let S be the set of all sets that do not contain themselves. Does S contain itself?

If you try to say &quot;there is no such set&quot;, you have just stated that we are *not* allowed to define sets however we want, as made out of completely arbitrary entities; a valid view, but one that then one has to keep in mind whenever one is doing set theory. Moreover, which sets can&#039;t one build? Do you forbid yourself from talking about the &quot;set of all sets&quot;? Or from the notion of &quot;containing oneself&quot;? The latter could happen in indirect ways, so it is then necessary to rank sets, assigning to them different &quot;types&quot;, with the definition of a set being allowed to refer only sets at a lower level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this is the correct statement. This &#8220;paradox&#8221;, by the way, is easy &#8211; there is no such barber. So it isn&#8217;t really a paradox.</p>
<p>What you can have is actual paradoxes phrased a bit like that. Russell&#8217;s paradox: Let S be the set of all sets that do not contain themselves. Does S contain itself?</p>
<p>If you try to say &#8220;there is no such set&#8221;, you have just stated that we are *not* allowed to define sets however we want, as made out of completely arbitrary entities; a valid view, but one that then one has to keep in mind whenever one is doing set theory. Moreover, which sets can&#8217;t one build? Do you forbid yourself from talking about the &#8220;set of all sets&#8221;? Or from the notion of &#8220;containing oneself&#8221;? The latter could happen in indirect ways, so it is then necessary to rank sets, assigning to them different &#8220;types&#8221;, with the definition of a set being allowed to refer only sets at a lower level.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Dandridge</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502522</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Dandridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502522</guid>
		<description>They must have real problems with  Quantum Mechanics.  I mean all that weirdness about things not being in one set place, but instead being in a probability cloud (and probability has to be something they also have problems with).  God would not allow such a thing, would he.  Newton would have to be the last thing in physics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They must have real problems with  Quantum Mechanics.  I mean all that weirdness about things not being in one set place, but instead being in a probability cloud (and probability has to be something they also have problems with).  God would not allow such a thing, would he.  Newton would have to be the last thing in physics.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark T</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502496</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502496</guid>
		<description>Yeah - they&#039;re *really* gonna like John Carpenter&#039;s view of things - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4j2J2I9Rj8&amp;feature=player_detailpage#t=1844s ....he was rather far ahead of them, but I&#039;m venturing they would rather he wasn&#039;t.

So what I think get&#039;s missed here is how tragic it is , a large segment of the population refuses to properly engage and support our scientific and economic progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah &#8211; they&#8217;re *really* gonna like John Carpenter&#8217;s view of things &#8211; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4j2J2I9Rj8&#038;feature=player_detailpage#t=1844s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4j2J2I9Rj8&#038;feature=player_detailpage#t=1844s</a> &#8230;.he was rather far ahead of them, but I&#8217;m venturing they would rather he wasn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>So what I think get&#8217;s missed here is how tragic it is , a large segment of the population refuses to properly engage and support our scientific and economic progress.</p>
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		<title>By: B E Pratt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502487</link>
		<dc:creator>B E Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502487</guid>
		<description> It&#039;s true :) If you read Infinite Jest, you will know that he totally had the chops to do this. Of course, you have to read all the footnotes, endnotes.....etc. Infinite Jest may be a bit of a slog, but it is WELL worth it. Took me something like 5 years to finish, but it is just one of those odd ducks that you can put down for quite a long time and then pick up again and know precisely where you are at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> It&#8217;s true :) If you read Infinite Jest, you will know that he totally had the chops to do this. Of course, you have to read all the footnotes, endnotes&#8230;..etc. Infinite Jest may be a bit of a slog, but it is WELL worth it. Took me something like 5 years to finish, but it is just one of those odd ducks that you can put down for quite a long time and then pick up again and know precisely where you are at.</p>
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		<title>By: B E Pratt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502484</link>
		<dc:creator>B E Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502484</guid>
		<description> I&#039;ll grant you your godwins&#039; pass, but it is worth noting that &#039;dynamical systems theory&#039; is just another way of saying &#039;chaos theory&#039;, which I&#039;ll admit  I am more used to. But then that statement of  &#039;enter a loop or even dissipate&#039; becomes problematical. If a system did this, it would be not only NOT be chaotic, it would not be dynamic; it would be static. I AM, just now, starting to like the word &#039;dynamic&#039; over &#039;chaotic&#039; simply because the latter word seems to carry too much baggage for the, er, great unwashed. Then again, I embraced the term &#039;chaos&#039; because the &#039;catastrophe&#039; models sounded so damn alarming :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I&#8217;ll grant you your godwins&#8217; pass, but it is worth noting that &#8216;dynamical systems theory&#8217; is just another way of saying &#8216;chaos theory&#8217;, which I&#8217;ll admit  I am more used to. But then that statement of  &#8216;enter a loop or even dissipate&#8217; becomes problematical. If a system did this, it would be not only NOT be chaotic, it would not be dynamic; it would be static. I AM, just now, starting to like the word &#8216;dynamic&#8217; over &#8216;chaotic&#8217; simply because the latter word seems to carry too much baggage for the, er, great unwashed. Then again, I embraced the term &#8216;chaos&#8217; because the &#8216;catastrophe&#8217; models sounded so damn alarming :)</p>
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		<title>By: B E Pratt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502474</link>
		<dc:creator>B E Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502474</guid>
		<description> As Mindy [see Animaniacs] would say, &quot;Silly puppy! Hehee!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> As Mindy [see Animaniacs] would say, &#8220;Silly puppy! Hehee!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: kraut</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502458</link>
		<dc:creator>kraut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502458</guid>
		<description>Just because I chose to apply a label to myself doesn&#039;t mean that I have to accept the behaviour and beliefs of everyone else who uses the same label.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because I chose to apply a label to myself doesn&#8217;t mean that I have to accept the behaviour and beliefs of everyone else who uses the same label.</p>
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		<title>By: kraut</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502449</link>
		<dc:creator>kraut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502449</guid>
		<description>Which just proves that the best way to get kids to read something is to tell them they&#039;re not allowed to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which just proves that the best way to get kids to read something is to tell them they&#8217;re not allowed to.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Forschler</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502450</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Forschler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502450</guid>
		<description>But the &quot;infinite values&quot; are not necessarily sitting out there in the world for you to observe.  Even if they were, we would never have had time to observe them, and never will, so any such claim is entirely irrelevant to the math itself.  Hence whatever we might be doing in any branch of mathematics or life, observing infinite sets of values is no part of it.  Again:  we&#039;re just noticing that it is possible, in principle, to make observations/measurements without limit, from an infinite number of points, or infinitely recursively, etc.  We never actually *do* this.  But we&#039;ve found clever ways to figure out what some of those observations would approach, as a limit, without even actually going through with such a measurement, or even making the absurd claim that, &quot;well, this is the result we&#039;d get *if* we made an infinite number of observations,&quot; since that obviously could never be done and so there is no such result (of course we can speak this way metaphorically, but it&#039;s only a substitute for the more subtle and accurate language of limits).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the &#8220;infinite values&#8221; are not necessarily sitting out there in the world for you to observe.  Even if they were, we would never have had time to observe them, and never will, so any such claim is entirely irrelevant to the math itself.  Hence whatever we might be doing in any branch of mathematics or life, observing infinite sets of values is no part of it.  Again:  we&#8217;re just noticing that it is possible, in principle, to make observations/measurements without limit, from an infinite number of points, or infinitely recursively, etc.  We never actually *do* this.  But we&#8217;ve found clever ways to figure out what some of those observations would approach, as a limit, without even actually going through with such a measurement, or even making the absurd claim that, &#8220;well, this is the result we&#8217;d get *if* we made an infinite number of observations,&#8221; since that obviously could never be done and so there is no such result (of course we can speak this way metaphorically, but it&#8217;s only a substitute for the more subtle and accurate language of limits).</p>
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		<title>By: asveikau</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502371</link>
		<dc:creator>asveikau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 06:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502371</guid>
		<description>The barber&#039;s paradox, much more simply stated:
&quot;The barber shaves all men who do not shave themselves.  Who shaves the barber?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The barber&#8217;s paradox, much more simply stated:<br />
&#8220;The barber shaves all men who do not shave themselves.  Who shaves the barber?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian C Posey</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502317</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian C Posey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 04:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502317</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not real familiar with set theory.  So I just kept wondering if the fundies burn effigies of 
Guillaume de l&#039;Hôpital.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not real familiar with set theory.  So I just kept wondering if the fundies burn effigies of <br />
Guillaume de l&#8217;Hôpital.</p>
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		<title>By: NoahFect</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/07/what-do-christian-fundamentali.html#comment-1502294</link>
		<dc:creator>NoahFect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 04:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=175190#comment-1502294</guid>
		<description> It would be knee-slappingly funny, except these particular clowns vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> It would be knee-slappingly funny, except these particular clowns vote.</p>
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