Comments on: Animation teacher faces the sack for refusing to push "unnecessary, expensive" textbooks at hedge-fund invested Art Institute of California http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 18 May 2013 13:53:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: pmuaddib http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1509875 pmuaddib Thu, 16 Aug 2012 16:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1509875 Hi, I'm Pete, I'll be your server this evening! Our special tonight is a picture of a meal our chef made last week. There are plenty of other options on the menu but I'm going to have to insist that you buy the special, because I have a quota, and pixels are cheaper for our company to supply than actual food. No, you don't have a choice, you signed a contract when you came in the door that said you would fulfill our ordering requirements, pay our fees, comply when I change your requirements mid-meal, and leave only when we tell you that you can. It's that, or you get nothing, and we keep the down payment. That'll be $90,000, up front. Thanks, it's been a pleasure serving you to my boss! Yeah, exactly the same. Hi, I’m Pete, I’ll be your server this evening! Our special tonight is a picture of a meal our chef made last week. There are plenty of other options on the menu but I’m going to have to insist that you buy the special, because I have a quota, and pixels are cheaper for our company to supply than actual food. No, you don’t have a choice, you signed a contract when you came in the door that said you would fulfill our ordering requirements, pay our fees, comply when I change your requirements mid-meal, and leave only when we tell you that you can. It’s that, or you get nothing, and we keep the down payment. That’ll be $90,000, up front. Thanks, it’s been a pleasure serving you to my boss!

Yeah, exactly the same.

]]> By: Amanda Rosenblum http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1508902 Amanda Rosenblum Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1508902 I went to this school when it first opened and while I was not an animation major, my many animation friends loved Mike Tracy. While I do think the school will let in anyone that can afford it, that was the only way I could study graphic design without a portfolio, as I was changing careers. There are some great things about the school, and some bad ones as well. It never occurred to me that I might change careers again when I was signing the waiver stating I understood my degree might not be recognized at another school. It's a shame about Mike, and about mandatory textbook enforcement. Tuition is expensive enough without adding in books and software. I went to this school when it first opened and while I was not an animation major, my many animation friends loved Mike Tracy. While I do think the school will let in anyone that can afford it, that was the only way I could study graphic design without a portfolio, as I was changing careers. There are some great things about the school, and some bad ones as well. It never occurred to me that I might change careers again when I was signing the waiver stating I understood my degree might not be recognized at another school. It’s a shame about Mike, and about mandatory textbook enforcement. Tuition is expensive enough without adding in books and software.

]]> By: Jade Falcon http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1508081 Jade Falcon Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1508081 Teacher's Union at a for-profit establishment? Please tell me you're aware of how ridiculous that is. Organized labor is bad for the Bottom Line. Teacher’s Union at a for-profit establishment? Please tell me you’re aware of how ridiculous that is. Organized labor is bad for the Bottom Line.

]]> By: penguinchris http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1507702 penguinchris Tue, 14 Aug 2012 23:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1507702 I'm sure that he has a very good idea of how for-profit schools work and all the shit they pull, since he has worked there for 11 years! This is probably merely the last straw, the thing that finally pushed him to get out of there. If I taught a class (I have taught, but as a grad student TA with a provided syllabus) at a not-for-profit school and the school required me to require a textbook, I'd assign either a favorite fiction book of mine or, if that doesn't pass muster for a science class, then a good non-fiction but non-technical book relating to the subject. Nothing over $15 and I would e-mail the students ahead of time saying they don't <i>have</i> to buy it.  In this case he had to choose from a list of crappy (and probably overpriced) books - just want to make it clear that I know he couldn't have used my idea :) I’m sure that he has a very good idea of how for-profit schools work and all the shit they pull, since he has worked there for 11 years! This is probably merely the last straw, the thing that finally pushed him to get out of there.

If I taught a class (I have taught, but as a grad student TA with a provided syllabus) at a not-for-profit school and the school required me to require a textbook, I’d assign either a favorite fiction book of mine or, if that doesn’t pass muster for a science class, then a good non-fiction but non-technical book relating to the subject. Nothing over $15 and I would e-mail the students ahead of time saying they don’t have to buy it. 

In this case he had to choose from a list of crappy (and probably overpriced) books – just want to make it clear that I know he couldn’t have used my idea :)

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1507534 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1507534 I don't want to be around when you find out about cops and traffic tickets. I don’t want to be around when you find out about cops and traffic tickets.

]]> By: redstarr http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1507405 redstarr Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1507405 When I was in college (at a regular public school instead of a private for-profit one),  the instructors were forced to choose a textbook to "require", but they could choose any text they felt like and students were free to buy it from anywhere they wished.  Yeah, the on-campus bookstore made a little extra money off of unnecessary texts (especially from new students with scholarships or kids going on Mom and Dad's dime who just took their schedule down to the bookstore and the staff made them a stack and they paid for it).  There were a few instructors who made a little extra money selling a text they wrote themselves. There was no provision against that.  Some had authored or co-authored real published college textbooks.  Others self-published paper-back spiral bound type books that met the school's  rule. But there were a couple that made it clear the first day of class that the recommended text was more "supplemental" and if you'd already bought it at the bookstore, you should return it.  And the other students were always pretty good about telling one another which classes you needed the books for and which you didn't.  Some classes, if you didn't have it, you were going to fail.  Some, I re-sold ever so gently used and even completely uncracked books at the end of the semester.  A lot of us learned  to not buy any of the books on the list until after a couple of days of class.  It wasn't hard to tell which classes were going to use them and which were just meeting the policy to name one.  This teacher is right that the policy is clearly not motivated by academic integrity.  But I would think if he'd looked into how that school and other for-profit schools like that one work, he'd have a lot of other issues with them before now.  Those kinds of schools are definitely predatory.  When I was in college (at a regular public school instead of a private for-profit one),  the instructors were forced to choose a textbook to “require”, but they could choose any text they felt like and students were free to buy it from anywhere they wished.  Yeah, the on-campus bookstore made a little extra money off of unnecessary texts (especially from new students with scholarships or kids going on Mom and Dad’s dime who just took their schedule down to the bookstore and the staff made them a stack and they paid for it).  There were a few instructors who made a little extra money selling a text they wrote themselves. There was no provision against that.  Some had authored or co-authored real published college textbooks.  Others self-published paper-back spiral bound type books that met the school’s  rule. But there were a couple that made it clear the first day of class that the recommended text was more “supplemental” and if you’d already bought it at the bookstore, you should return it.  And the other students were always pretty good about telling one another which classes you needed the books for and which you didn’t.  Some classes, if you didn’t have it, you were going to fail.  Some, I re-sold ever so gently used and even completely uncracked books at the end of the semester.  A lot of us learned  to not buy any of the books on the list until after a couple of days of class.  It wasn’t hard to tell which classes were going to use them and which were just meeting the policy to name one. 

This teacher is right that the policy is clearly not motivated by academic integrity.  But I would think if he’d looked into how that school and other for-profit schools like that one work, he’d have a lot of other issues with them before now.  Those kinds of schools are definitely predatory. 

]]> By: thecardcheat http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506947 thecardcheat Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506947 Why doesn't the teachers union (i'm assuming he belongs to one) step up and fight for him? Why doesn’t the teachers union (i’m assuming he belongs to one) step up and fight for him?

]]> By: mccrum http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506920 mccrum Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506920 And if the people ordering don't buy that quota of broccoli salmon that evening, what happens?  Would it be appropriate to fire said sever because the clientele that evening didn't like fish?  Is a quota a recommended number of sales you *should* hit or *must* hit? And what if, for example, you're not there to sell books but to be, I don't know, a teacher, who wants to educate students and not sell books. Should he be responsible for the bookstore not selling enough sweatshirts as well? And if the people ordering don’t buy that quota of broccoli salmon that evening, what happens?  Would it be appropriate to fire said sever because the clientele that evening didn’t like fish? 

Is a quota a recommended number of sales you *should* hit or *must* hit? And what if, for example, you’re not there to sell books but to be, I don’t know, a teacher, who wants to educate students and not sell books. Should he be responsible for the bookstore not selling enough sweatshirts as well?

]]> By: 666beast1 http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506808 666beast1 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506808 I assume most people order the special because they are hungry, not because they are forced to buy it. I assume most people order the special because they are hungry, not because they are forced to buy it.

]]> By: tubacat http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506697 tubacat Tue, 14 Aug 2012 08:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506697  I agree that textbook publishers are egregious rip-off artists (no pun intended) at any kind of college (though I don't agree with you that non-profit colleges are at all like ones that are run only to make money). I'm always trying to find ways to reduce the cost of books for my students (eg, letting them buy recent used editions - the differences between editions are usually miniscule). The most recent course I taught used an e-book available free from the National Academies Press, which by the way has a bunch of free books that we have already paid for with our tax dollars - the one I used was: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309070368. But what blew my mind here was the idea that the administration could dictate to an instructor what teaching materials to use. If I were in this teacher's place, I would also leave, and make as big a stink about it as possible.  I agree that textbook publishers are egregious rip-off artists (no pun intended) at any kind of college (though I don’t agree with you that non-profit colleges are at all like ones that are run only to make money). I’m always trying to find ways to reduce the cost of books for my students (eg, letting them buy recent used editions – the differences between editions are usually miniscule). The most recent course I taught used an e-book available free from the National Academies Press, which by the way has a bunch of free books that we have already paid for with our tax dollars – the one I used was: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309070368.

But what blew my mind here was the idea that the administration could dictate to an instructor what teaching materials to use. If I were in this teacher’s place, I would also leave, and make as big a stink about it as possible.

]]> By: Jamie Norwood http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506636 Jamie Norwood Tue, 14 Aug 2012 06:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506636 As I said above, this is the difference between 'This book will help you with this class' and 'if you don't buy this book, you don't get credit'. One is about education. The other is about selling books. As I said above, this is the difference between ‘This book will help you with this class’ and ‘if you don’t buy this book, you don’t get credit’. One is about education. The other is about selling books.

]]> By: zarray http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506638 zarray Tue, 14 Aug 2012 06:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506638  No, you had to pay a separate couple hundred extra for this package of crap like art supplies and software too (I think). Also being a 'private' for profit college they let in anybody who could pay for that semester (as opposed to all two/four years). From what I understand the drop out rate is very high.  No, you had to pay a separate couple hundred extra for this package of crap like art supplies and software too (I think).

Also being a ‘private’ for profit college they let in anybody who could pay for that semester (as opposed to all two/four years). From what I understand the drop out rate is very high.

]]> By: Jamie Norwood http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506635 Jamie Norwood Tue, 14 Aug 2012 06:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506635 There is a huge difference to me between 'You need to have X book for this class' and 'You have to BUY X book FROM US for this class'. One of those is probably about having access to things you need to be educated on. The other is about getting profit from books.  While I have never graduated university, I went to a handful of them in the attempt. All were well established, well regarded schools. All had a list of recommended materials, but none of them checked your bags to see if you had them or whatever; it was your problem if you didn't, and their 'job' was to teach you and then test you and if you knew what they were teaching, to accredit that you knew it. Not to make money for their published books.  There is a huge difference to me between ‘You need to have X book for this class’ and ‘You have to BUY X book FROM US for this class’. One of those is probably about having access to things you need to be educated on. The other is about getting profit from books. 

While I have never graduated university, I went to a handful of them in the attempt. All were well established, well regarded schools. All had a list of recommended materials, but none of them checked your bags to see if you had them or whatever; it was your problem if you didn’t, and their ‘job’ was to teach you and then test you and if you knew what they were teaching, to accredit that you knew it. Not to make money for their published books. 

]]> By: themac http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506634 themac Tue, 14 Aug 2012 06:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506634 An instructor at a for-profit school being told to sell a quota of a specific textbook is no different than a server being told to sell a quota of specials during the dinner shift.  An instructor at a for-profit school being told to sell a quota of a specific textbook is no different than a server being told to sell a quota of specials during the dinner shift. 

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506612 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 14 Aug 2012 05:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506612 <blockquote>Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay someone 200K to make a good book and then give it to 20K students for $10 each?</blockquote>Their goal isn't to provide students with educational materials; it's to make a profit off a captive audience via enforced sales.

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to pay someone 200K to make a good book and then give it to 20K students for $10 each?

Their goal isn’t to provide students with educational materials; it’s to make a profit off a captive audience via enforced sales.

]]> By: roobar http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506600 roobar Tue, 14 Aug 2012 05:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506600 Not knowing the American College application system, but does this mean that you get a free ipod for applying? or on their acceptance? Is this a way to profit from applications to for profit colleges do you pay just to apply as well? My first thought was"Free Ipod, i might appply under 5 different names" Not knowing the American College application system, but does this mean that you get a free ipod for applying? or on their acceptance?
Is this a way to profit from applications to for profit colleges do you pay just to apply as well?
My first thought was”Free Ipod, i might appply under 5 different names”

]]> By: IndexMe http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506599 IndexMe Tue, 14 Aug 2012 05:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506599 Somebody is just going to upload their curriculum when they get mad enough. I guess the key is that they are teaching how to be a technical operator not an artist? I mean if you are learning drawing, are you supposed to have an iPad or laptop open all the time? If you are learning drawing anatomy like Vesalius are you really going to get an idea of the forms from a low-resolution, bright screen? How bizarre. Incidentally I don't understand how they could sell ebooks for so much year after year. Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay someone 200K to make a good book and then give it to 20K students for $10 each? Somebody is just going to upload their curriculum when they get mad enough.
I guess the key is that they are teaching how to be a technical operator not an artist? I mean if you are learning drawing, are you supposed to have an iPad or laptop open all the time? If you are learning drawing anatomy like Vesalius are you really going to get an idea of the forms from a low-resolution, bright screen? How bizarre. Incidentally I don’t understand how they could sell ebooks for so much year after year. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to pay someone 200K to make a good book and then give it to 20K students for $10 each?

]]> By: zarray http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506579 zarray Tue, 14 Aug 2012 04:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506579  I applied and while the whole thing was more expensive than I could afford, I was shocked by the dumb stuff that came in the enrollment package like an ipod and maybe some shirts.  I applied and while the whole thing was more expensive than I could afford, I was shocked by the dumb stuff that came in the enrollment package like an ipod and maybe some shirts.

]]> By: internetcontrarian http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506556 internetcontrarian Tue, 14 Aug 2012 04:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506556 Sweeney Todd's BoingBoing account found.  Sweeney Todd’s BoingBoing account found. 

]]> By: benher http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506554 benher Tue, 14 Aug 2012 03:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506554 Now now. Let's not make Goldman and Sachs cry. He/She has feelings too you know! Now now. Let’s not make Goldman and Sachs cry. He/She has feelings too you know!

]]> By: benher http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506553 benher Tue, 14 Aug 2012 03:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506553 No, that show in the 90s where the kid slides between parallel worlds and the traffic lights are all backwords, etc. No, that show in the 90s where the kid slides between parallel worlds and the traffic lights are all backwords, etc.

]]> By: benher http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506551 benher Tue, 14 Aug 2012 03:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506551 I'm going to go with the "We're all going to die, it's true, but I'm going to do my best to minimize human suffering" option. Signed. (Well, now that Goldman & Sachs is a person, I don't really care if he/she suffers a bit) I’m going to go with the “We’re all going to die, it’s true, but I’m going to do my best to minimize human suffering” option.

Signed.

(Well, now that Goldman & Sachs is a person, I don’t really care if he/she suffers a bit)

]]> By: Mitch_M http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506525 Mitch_M Tue, 14 Aug 2012 03:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506525 Making his own text which would be more relevant to the course and making it available at less cost to students would emphasize that management's motives are something other than providing quality education. Making his own text which would be more relevant to the course and making it available at less cost to students would emphasize that management’s motives are something other than providing quality education.

]]> By: jhoosier http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506523 jhoosier Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506523 I can see being required to buy a textbook as being a reasonable requirement (though getting it used should be an option).  I knew people who used texts from the library for classes in university, but that's not really ideal because other people have the same idea and it's difficult to get access to the book when you need it. The teacher being told he has to choose a textbook that he thinks is unnecessary, and students must purchase it?  That's egregious. I can see being required to buy a textbook as being a reasonable requirement (though getting it used should be an option).  I knew people who used texts from the library for classes in university, but that’s not really ideal because other people have the same idea and it’s difficult to get access to the book when you need it.

The teacher being told he has to choose a textbook that he thinks is unnecessary, and students must purchase it?  That’s egregious.

]]> By: cas127 http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506517 cas127 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506517 And you think "non-profit" traditional schools don't similarly rip students off? Google e-textbooks and prices and you'll see that the same scam is emerging in many places. It has been my experience that "non-profit" traditional schools simply convert what would otherwise be somebody's "profit" and turn it into somebody's "salary". Slam on Art Institute, Phoenix, etc. all you want - but don't labor under the illusion that traditional, "non-profit" schools are any less whores. They just have better PR from the ignorant. Hopefully the internet is helping to change that. And you think “non-profit” traditional schools don’t similarly rip students off?

Google e-textbooks and prices and you’ll see that the same scam is emerging in many places.

It has been my experience that “non-profit” traditional schools simply convert what would otherwise be somebody’s “profit” and turn it into somebody’s “salary”.

Slam on Art Institute, Phoenix, etc. all you want – but don’t labor under the illusion that traditional, “non-profit” schools are any less whores.

They just have better PR from the ignorant.

Hopefully the internet is helping to change that.

]]> By: Susan Carley Oliver http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506515 Susan Carley Oliver Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506515 On a related note - does anybody know if Mike Tracy sells prints of his work?  I love Robot (pictured here), and his series of mice that only sorta look like Mickey is calling out to me.  Checked his website but there's no mention of a gallery he sells through... On a related note – does anybody know if Mike Tracy sells prints of his work?  I love Robot (pictured here), and his series of mice that only sorta look like Mickey is calling out to me.  Checked his website but there’s no mention of a gallery he sells through…

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506500 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506500 That's not a loophole. He's been ordered to sell a quota of already-chosen books. They're not asking him to have any input into it, just to pimp a product or GTFO. That’s not a loophole. He’s been ordered to sell a quota of already-chosen books. They’re not asking him to have any input into it, just to pimp a product or GTFO.

]]> By: Mitch_M http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506483 Mitch_M Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506483 I'd try to find a loophole, like making my own eBook for the course and making it available as a free download, but standing up to the unreasonable tyrant is every bit as valid as side-stepping around him. I’d try to find a loophole, like making my own eBook for the course and making it available as a free download, but standing up to the unreasonable tyrant is every bit as valid as side-stepping around him.

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506466 Boundegar Tue, 14 Aug 2012 01:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506466  Sliders...  like...  White Castle hamburgers?  They're Soylent Green?  Sliders…  like…  White Castle hamburgers?  They’re Soylent Green?

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/08/13/animation-teacher-faces-the-sa.html#comment-1506464 Boundegar Tue, 14 Aug 2012 01:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=176169#comment-1506464  I am shocked to find gambling in this casino!  Shocked!  I am shocked to find gambling in this casino!  Shocked!

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