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	<title>Comments on: English seaside town with no chain coffee shops fights off Costa Coffee&#160;incursion</title>
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		<title>By: Raita</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511865</link>
		<dc:creator>Raita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511865</guid>
		<description>I find it incredible that you&#039;re actually serious, donovan acree. 

&quot;It is the vocal townspeople who are wanting to force their will on the fewer number of people who want a Costa coffee in their neighborhood.&quot;

Oh no, those poor people! The minority&#039;s rights are getting trampled on. They&#039;re being oppressed by that elitist and selfish majority!

Or not. This not an issue about oppression. This is not like straight folks deciding how the LGBT minority can live their personal lives. The local people get to have a say in what is built in their town, and they are saying nay. 

I doubt that a single person in the town is actually so passionate about getting the chain coffee shop near them that they would do more than shrug their shoulders and say &quot;damn, that&#039;s too bad&quot; if it didn&#039;t happen. Do you truly believe that the majority, who feel the issue is important enough that they are actually protesting, should not be accounted for just so the few people who want a Costa coffee in their neighbourhood get their way? That seems completely backwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it incredible that you&#8217;re actually serious, donovan acree. </p>
<p>&#8220;It is the vocal townspeople who are wanting to force their will on the fewer number of people who want a Costa coffee in their neighborhood.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh no, those poor people! The minority&#8217;s rights are getting trampled on. They&#8217;re being oppressed by that elitist and selfish majority!</p>
<p>Or not. This not an issue about oppression. This is not like straight folks deciding how the LGBT minority can live their personal lives. The local people get to have a say in what is built in their town, and they are saying nay. </p>
<p>I doubt that a single person in the town is actually so passionate about getting the chain coffee shop near them that they would do more than shrug their shoulders and say &#8220;damn, that&#8217;s too bad&#8221; if it didn&#8217;t happen. Do you truly believe that the majority, who feel the issue is important enough that they are actually protesting, should not be accounted for just so the few people who want a Costa coffee in their neighbourhood get their way? That seems completely backwards.</p>
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		<title>By: NotoCosta in Totnes</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511861</link>
		<dc:creator>NotoCosta in Totnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511861</guid>
		<description>So do we -- you can see more about our rationale on www.notocosta.co.uk and follow us on Twitter.  Thanks for adding your perspective BoingBoing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So do we &#8212; you can see more about our rationale on <a href="http://www.notocosta.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.notocosta.co.uk</a> and follow us on Twitter.  Thanks for adding your perspective BoingBoing.</p>
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		<title>By: Wreckrob8</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511786</link>
		<dc:creator>Wreckrob8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511786</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not alone in finding the idea of land ownership problematic. It unites people from middle class townies to anarchists. The word ownership disguises all sorts of problems surrounding responsibility and control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not alone in finding the idea of land ownership problematic. It unites people from middle class townies to anarchists. The word ownership disguises all sorts of problems surrounding responsibility and control.</p>
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		<title>By: Wreckrob8</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511781</link>
		<dc:creator>Wreckrob8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511781</guid>
		<description>@ avraamov But Soho is safer than many outer or suburban London estates. Does your daughter have to negotiate turf wars among gangs over rights to deal drugs? Does your daughter have to avoid walking through other estates or areas because she was born and raised on the wrong estate? Does she run the risk of being shot either by gang members or the police? Kids where I live (Stockwell/Brixton/Vauxhall) run the risk of serious injury if they are caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. She is within walking distance of West End theatres and Covent Garden (most of which have policies to make tickets affordable for as many as possible nowadays), The British Museum, The National Gallery and Portrait Gallery, Westminster, Parliament, etc. - enough history and culture to last a lifetime. There are whole streets of bookshops (antiquarian/general and specialist) and independent cafes in every street. I was brought up in a leafy suburb of London. As soon as I was able I used to jump the trains to Charing Cross Road and all its bookshops (especially Foyles) and Soho and its porn shops, clubs and bars (even though I was much too young to get in). I couldn&#039;t think of a better place to raise a kid and at least she won&#039;t get a criminal record for fare dodging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ avraamov But Soho is safer than many outer or suburban London estates. Does your daughter have to negotiate turf wars among gangs over rights to deal drugs? Does your daughter have to avoid walking through other estates or areas because she was born and raised on the wrong estate? Does she run the risk of being shot either by gang members or the police? Kids where I live (Stockwell/Brixton/Vauxhall) run the risk of serious injury if they are caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. She is within walking distance of West End theatres and Covent Garden (most of which have policies to make tickets affordable for as many as possible nowadays), The British Museum, The National Gallery and Portrait Gallery, Westminster, Parliament, etc. &#8211; enough history and culture to last a lifetime. There are whole streets of bookshops (antiquarian/general and specialist) and independent cafes in every street. I was brought up in a leafy suburb of London. As soon as I was able I used to jump the trains to Charing Cross Road and all its bookshops (especially Foyles) and Soho and its porn shops, clubs and bars (even though I was much too young to get in). I couldn&#8217;t think of a better place to raise a kid and at least she won&#8217;t get a criminal record for fare dodging.</p>
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		<title>By: Funk Daddy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511344</link>
		<dc:creator>Funk Daddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511344</guid>
		<description>Donavan acree - It&#039;s more than just the vocal townspeople when 5475 people of a town that has a population of 7444 show up to a protest. 

The planners that represented that area voted against the development based on the wishes of the people in the area affected, which they represent, the other planners voted without that consideration as they don&#039;t represent that area.

You make out Costa to be small, smaller than the tiny town that doesn&#039;t want them, but they are not small, 

http://www.whitbread.co.uk/whitbread.html 

According to them they managed 1,778,000,000.00 pounds of revenue in their year ending March 1, 2012. They posted a gross profit of 1,489,600,000.00 pounds. They posted a net profit of 266,000,000.00 pounds. They are publicly traded on the London exchange and have 192,000,000+ shares in play.

Whitbread Group LPC is not small by any measure, and is global, stop pretending that the parent corp is Mom and Pop, and smaller than the tiny town that doesn&#039;t want or need them.

There need be no wrongs, that&#039;s a false argument, the people of Totnes need not require that something be pure or impure to reject it. 

Reality, your argument that Costa is small is so ridiculous that you are a fool or a shill. Billions of pounds. Worth Billions of pounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donavan acree &#8211; It&#8217;s more than just the vocal townspeople when 5475 people of a town that has a population of 7444 show up to a protest. </p>
<p>The planners that represented that area voted against the development based on the wishes of the people in the area affected, which they represent, the other planners voted without that consideration as they don&#8217;t represent that area.</p>
<p>You make out Costa to be small, smaller than the tiny town that doesn&#8217;t want them, but they are not small, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.whitbread.co.uk/whitbread.html " rel="nofollow">http://www.whitbread.co.uk/whitbread.html </a></p>
<p>According to them they managed 1,778,000,000.00 pounds of revenue in their year ending March 1, 2012. They posted a gross profit of 1,489,600,000.00 pounds. They posted a net profit of 266,000,000.00 pounds. They are publicly traded on the London exchange and have 192,000,000+ shares in play.</p>
<p>Whitbread Group LPC is not small by any measure, and is global, stop pretending that the parent corp is Mom and Pop, and smaller than the tiny town that doesn&#8217;t want or need them.</p>
<p>There need be no wrongs, that&#8217;s a false argument, the people of Totnes need not require that something be pure or impure to reject it. </p>
<p>Reality, your argument that Costa is small is so ridiculous that you are a fool or a shill. Billions of pounds. Worth Billions of pounds.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine Carter</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511333</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511333</guid>
		<description> Blimey - there&#039;s nothing like a few facts for closing down a discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Blimey &#8211; there&#8217;s nothing like a few facts for closing down a discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511204</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511204</guid>
		<description>Not to deflate your argument, but you should appreciate we don&#039;t have zoning laws as such in England &amp; Wales. Businesses must seek planning permission from the local council to be allowed to operate. This licence is often attached to the premises and can often be transferred between businesses at the council&#039;s pleasure. 

A common trick of Tesco&#039;s is to buy a business premise and persuade the council that they are continuing usage (local to me there was a car part store converted to a Tesco) and if the council get huffy they threaten to bankrupt the council with legal action.
In Totnes it seems that all the out of town councillors voted to allow Costa&#039;s continuing use and all the resident councillors voted against. (Our town/county &quot;democracy&quot; is muddled to put it mildy without the clearer divisions of the US).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to deflate your argument, but you should appreciate we don&#8217;t have zoning laws as such in England &amp; Wales. Businesses must seek planning permission from the local council to be allowed to operate. This licence is often attached to the premises and can often be transferred between businesses at the council&#8217;s pleasure. </p>
<p>A common trick of Tesco&#8217;s is to buy a business premise and persuade the council that they are continuing usage (local to me there was a car part store converted to a Tesco) and if the council get huffy they threaten to bankrupt the council with legal action.<br />
In Totnes it seems that all the out of town councillors voted to allow Costa&#8217;s continuing use and all the resident councillors voted against. (Our town/county &#8220;democracy&#8221; is muddled to put it mildy without the clearer divisions of the US).</p>
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		<title>By: donovan acree</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1511098</link>
		<dc:creator>donovan acree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1511098</guid>
		<description>Of course I equate this with mob rule. It is the vocal townspeople who are wanting to force their will on the fewer number of people who want a Costa coffee in their neighborhood. Don&#039;t think for a minute that 100% of the Totnes population wants Costa to move along. 

You do realize that many Costa locations are  independently owned franchises right? You make Costa out to be some evil mega corp when the truth is that they are big in the coffee world but tiny in the business world. 
Also, do you imagine that the manager and employees of this proposed Costa are going to be shipped in each day? Of course not. We are talking locals here.

What wrongs has Costa committed to deserve such ire? Is being successful because people like your product a sufficient reason to demonize this company? I suspect this is about well-to-do trust fund hippies wanting something, anything to protest against because the arguments against Costa seem to be based on indignation rather than reason. After all, it&#039;s not as if Totnes is free from chain businesses.

If Totnes does not want Costa Coffee, the townspeople can simply not do business with the shop. Preventing them from even trying is bad sport and bullying and their reasoning is pure unfiltered smug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I equate this with mob rule. It is the vocal townspeople who are wanting to force their will on the fewer number of people who want a Costa coffee in their neighborhood. Don&#8217;t think for a minute that 100% of the Totnes population wants Costa to move along. </p>
<p>You do realize that many Costa locations are  independently owned franchises right? You make Costa out to be some evil mega corp when the truth is that they are big in the coffee world but tiny in the business world. <br />
Also, do you imagine that the manager and employees of this proposed Costa are going to be shipped in each day? Of course not. We are talking locals here.</p>
<p>What wrongs has Costa committed to deserve such ire? Is being successful because people like your product a sufficient reason to demonize this company? I suspect this is about well-to-do trust fund hippies wanting something, anything to protest against because the arguments against Costa seem to be based on indignation rather than reason. After all, it&#8217;s not as if Totnes is free from chain businesses.</p>
<p>If Totnes does not want Costa Coffee, the townspeople can simply not do business with the shop. Preventing them from even trying is bad sport and bullying and their reasoning is pure unfiltered smug.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Smith</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510722</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 02:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510722</guid>
		<description>Well as the birthplace of the transition movement Totnes could probably come close to that with some extra effort...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well as the birthplace of the transition movement Totnes could probably come close to that with some extra effort&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Young</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510611</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 01:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510611</guid>
		<description>I absolutely believe they should have a say but businesses and business owners have rights also in these matters. It seems that they aren&#039;t going to be able to stop this store from opening so instead of fighting them they should throw more support behind the stores already there that they like. Let them have their say with their wallets and lets see how it turns out (optimistic and slightly naive on my part I know).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely believe they should have a say but businesses and business owners have rights also in these matters. It seems that they aren&#8217;t going to be able to stop this store from opening so instead of fighting them they should throw more support behind the stores already there that they like. Let them have their say with their wallets and lets see how it turns out (optimistic and slightly naive on my part I know).</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510522</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510522</guid>
		<description>Well I&#039;m glad you made me ponder on the subject a bit more, so all is forgiven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;m glad you made me ponder on the subject a bit more, so all is forgiven.</p>
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		<title>By: David Levy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510520</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510520</guid>
		<description>Cool let&#039;s list late night eateries in Boston.  Cause I&#039;m actually far more interested in learning about more late night diner&#039;s than I am arguing about a chain shop in a town I&#039;ll probably never visit.

The places I can think of are:
Red Bone&#039;s.  12:30 not really late night but close.
Moody&#039;s Falafel Pallace.  Open until 3:00, god I love Moody&#039;s.
IHOP in Harvard.  I&#039;ve never been there.  I don&#039;t actually like chain restaurants.
South Street Diner of course.  Open 24 hours, and for that they&#039;re famous.  But frankly I don&#039;t like the food.  I&#039;ll still take it though when the birds are chirping and the T hasn&#039;t opened yet.

So what are the good places I don&#039;t know about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool let&#8217;s list late night eateries in Boston.  Cause I&#8217;m actually far more interested in learning about more late night diner&#8217;s than I am arguing about a chain shop in a town I&#8217;ll probably never visit.</p>
<p>The places I can think of are:<br />
Red Bone&#8217;s.  12:30 not really late night but close.<br />
Moody&#8217;s Falafel Pallace.  Open until 3:00, god I love Moody&#8217;s.<br />
IHOP in Harvard.  I&#8217;ve never been there.  I don&#8217;t actually like chain restaurants.<br />
South Street Diner of course.  Open 24 hours, and for that they&#8217;re famous.  But frankly I don&#8217;t like the food.  I&#8217;ll still take it though when the birds are chirping and the T hasn&#8217;t opened yet.</p>
<p>So what are the good places I don&#8217;t know about?</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510516</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510516</guid>
		<description> Sorry Nathan, I meant to reply to David Levy&#039;s comment but the thread had maxed out.  I agree with you that the concept of land ownership should be up for debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Sorry Nathan, I meant to reply to David Levy&#8217;s comment but the thread had maxed out.  I agree with you that the concept of land ownership should be up for debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510482</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510482</guid>
		<description>Margaret Cho was raised &lt;b&gt;in&lt;/b&gt; a gay porn shop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margaret Cho was raised <b>in</b> a gay porn shop.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510466</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510466</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sounds just like the tourist trap I live in. I&#039;m sure it&#039;s a nice place to visit, but it sucks to live here.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Why do they call it &#039;tourist season&#039; if you&#039;re not allowed to hunt them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sounds just like the tourist trap I live in. I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s a nice place to visit, but it sucks to live here.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why do they call it &#8216;tourist season&#8217; if you&#8217;re not allowed to hunt them?</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510457</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510457</guid>
		<description>There were restaurants open until 0300 when I lived there in the 70s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were restaurants open until 0300 when I lived there in the 70s.</p>
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		<title>By: Teller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510398</link>
		<dc:creator>Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510398</guid>
		<description>&quot;You realize (f-a-g-c) that&#039;s just what The Guardian decided to call their article right?&quot;

Sure. And likely why Mr Doctorow decided to post it. Caught his eye. I don&#039;t have a beef with townspeople (or a city council) voting on whatever they do or don&#039;t want. Seriously. I understand most NIMBYism - it&#039;s a very human, protective reaction. There&#039;s this little precious town north of the Golden Gate Bridge that has two (2) Whole Foods, but won&#039;t let a Subway™ store in. Happens all the time. It&#039;s just this particular characterization (f-a-g-c) I find laughably over the top. 

wysinwyg: Convenient, hell yeah! My Simple Theory of Civilization is that we&#039;re all in one long march towards convenience.
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You realize (f-a-g-c) that&#8217;s just what The Guardian decided to call their article right?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure. And likely why Mr Doctorow decided to post it. Caught his eye. I don&#8217;t have a beef with townspeople (or a city council) voting on whatever they do or don&#8217;t want. Seriously. I understand most NIMBYism &#8211; it&#8217;s a very human, protective reaction. There&#8217;s this little precious town north of the Golden Gate Bridge that has two (2) Whole Foods, but won&#8217;t let a Subway™ store in. Happens all the time. It&#8217;s just this particular characterization (f-a-g-c) I find laughably over the top. </p>
<p>wysinwyg: Convenient, hell yeah! My Simple Theory of Civilization is that we&#8217;re all in one long march towards convenience.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510399</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510399</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t trying to suggest that land ownership wasn&#039;t possible (although I did go off on a tangent), but instead that there are moral, social and environmental factors involved in land ownership that make it in interesting area of debate.  The question was more &#039;should one be able to buy land&#039;, not &#039;can one buy land&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t trying to suggest that land ownership wasn&#8217;t possible (although I did go off on a tangent), but instead that there are moral, social and environmental factors involved in land ownership that make it in interesting area of debate.  The question was more &#8216;should one be able to buy land&#8217;, not &#8216;can one buy land&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510383</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510383</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t think you&#039;re actually against land ownership.  You can&#039;t be. &lt;/blockquote&gt;Why can&#039;t someone be against land ownership.  It&#039;s perfectly reasonable to allow people to own chattel property and to retain land ownership by the commons.  The vast majority of non-commons land was stolen from it&#039;s original inhabitants by foreign invaders, settlers, nobles or corporations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re actually against land ownership.  You can&#8217;t be. </p></blockquote>
<p>Why can&#8217;t someone be against land ownership.  It&#8217;s perfectly reasonable to allow people to own chattel property and to retain land ownership by the commons.  The vast majority of non-commons land was stolen from it&#8217;s original inhabitants by foreign invaders, settlers, nobles or corporations.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510370</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510370</guid>
		<description>Admittedly I did address the fact that the &#039;free market&#039; model is flawed from that perspective, but it must have been elsewhere (replying via email so can&#039;t check).  Hopefully it was as part of a reply to this comment so I don&#039;t look too silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admittedly I did address the fact that the &#8216;free market&#8217; model is flawed from that perspective, but it must have been elsewhere (replying via email so can&#8217;t check).  Hopefully it was as part of a reply to this comment so I don&#8217;t look too silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510369</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510369</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...don&#039;t turn me into a straw man...&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;No stores that start with the word &#039;costa&#039;, this area is not zoned for &#039;costas&#039;.&quot; Is not really a zoning law.&lt;/blockquote&gt;One of these things is not like the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;don&#8217;t turn me into a straw man&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;No stores that start with the word &#8216;costa&#8217;, this area is not zoned for &#8216;costas&#8217;.&#8221; Is not really a zoning law.</p></blockquote>
<p>One of these things is not like the other.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510360</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510360</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t think you&#039;re actually against land ownership.  You can&#039;t be.  Land exists.  Different people put different demands on it.  If some one is given the legal right to control what happens on that land then they de facto own it. &lt;/blockquote&gt;Physiologically modern homo sapiens predate the concept of land ownership by somewhere between .5 and 1 million years.  This statement does not reveal deep, philosophical thought.  It reveals a profound failure of imagination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re actually against land ownership.  You can&#8217;t be.  Land exists.  Different people put different demands on it.  If some one is given the legal right to control what happens on that land then they de facto own it. </p></blockquote>
<p>Physiologically modern homo sapiens predate the concept of land ownership by somewhere between .5 and 1 million years.  This statement does not reveal deep, philosophical thought.  It reveals a profound failure of imagination.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510356</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510356</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If they don&#039;t want costa, then don&#039;t buy their coffee.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Have you never taken a history course that covered the last 400 years?  Large corporations have the resources to undersell their smaller competitors and then jack up the prices once they&#039;re gone.  They have the resources to buy local ordinances regarding hours and traffic and parking, all of which drives business away from their competitors and to them.  Large corporations get large by using money and dirty tricks to plough every local business under.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If they don&#8217;t want costa, then don&#8217;t buy their coffee.</p></blockquote>
<p>Have you never taken a history course that covered the last 400 years?  Large corporations have the resources to undersell their smaller competitors and then jack up the prices once they&#8217;re gone.  They have the resources to buy local ordinances regarding hours and traffic and parking, all of which drives business away from their competitors and to them.  Large corporations get large by using money and dirty tricks to plough every local business under.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510315</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510315</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That community is made stronger and more dynamic when it exists bellow the level of law, at the level of interpersonal interaction.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Exactly!  &lt;b&gt;Now that corporations are people, we can finally call corporate invasions &quot;interpersonal interactions&quot;.&lt;/b&gt;  You&#039;ve closed the circle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That community is made stronger and more dynamic when it exists bellow the level of law, at the level of interpersonal interaction.</p></blockquote>
<p>Exactly!  <b>Now that corporations are people, we can finally call corporate invasions &#8220;interpersonal interactions&#8221;.</b>  You&#8217;ve closed the circle.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510297</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510297</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re talking about a country that gave a gi-fucking-normous rail contract to a company in Germany to save a bit of money, completely ignoring the fact that all the people put out of work won&#039;t be paying taxes and will be getting benefits.  But they were the lowest bidder!  Penny wise, pound foolish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re talking about a country that gave a gi-fucking-normous rail contract to a company in Germany to save a bit of money, completely ignoring the fact that all the people put out of work won&#8217;t be paying taxes and will be getting benefits.  But they were the lowest bidder!  Penny wise, pound foolish.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine Carter</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510271</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510271</guid>
		<description>OK, there seems to be a misunderstanding of how town planning works in the UK (USAians - think zoning law).  Town and Country Planning has no powers to stop a particular chain opening in an area - the only reason the local authorities are involved at all is because the premises used to be a shop and the new owners want it to become a cafe - this is called &quot;change of use&quot; and is a legitimate planning concern. 

The professional town planners have probably told the elected councillors that there are no grounds for refusing the change of use (because the ultimate business is irrelevant to the planning process) but the councillors for the area have ignored them because of the bad publicity and local feeling.

No part of the planning system allows one to ban Costa or Walmart - all they can do is ban the change of use or the erection of new buildings and only then if they can bring their reasons for banning them under one of the grounds for refusal the law allows.

&quot;No large chains here&quot; is not a grounds for refusing planning. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, there seems to be a misunderstanding of how town planning works in the UK (USAians &#8211; think zoning law).  Town and Country Planning has no powers to stop a particular chain opening in an area &#8211; the only reason the local authorities are involved at all is because the premises used to be a shop and the new owners want it to become a cafe &#8211; this is called &#8220;change of use&#8221; and is a legitimate planning concern. </p>
<p>The professional town planners have probably told the elected councillors that there are no grounds for refusing the change of use (because the ultimate business is irrelevant to the planning process) but the councillors for the area have ignored them because of the bad publicity and local feeling.</p>
<p>No part of the planning system allows one to ban Costa or Walmart &#8211; all they can do is ban the change of use or the erection of new buildings and only then if they can bring their reasons for banning them under one of the grounds for refusal the law allows.</p>
<p>&#8220;No large chains here&#8221; is not a grounds for refusing planning. </p>
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		<title>By: Navin_Johnson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510111</link>
		<dc:creator>Navin_Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 19:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510111</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&#039;fight against global capitalism&#039;&lt;/i&gt;

You realize that&#039;s just what The Guardian decided to call their article right? By your reasoning here, any sensible interest in maintaining a community&#039;s quality of life for all its citizens and local businesses is simple &quot;NIMBYism&quot;, a convenient accusation in order to defend neoliberal policy and ideology. Thankfully it&#039;s one that it is easily dismissed. It easily falls apart considering this is essentially a Starbucks, so it&#039;s not unsightly or even something that would make people immediately worry about property values or something. They are concerned about local businesses, extracted wealth, and the (outside interest/corporate) foothold that this represents in their town. Also, if you read the article, it seems that the company has targeted this big shop to be at an entry point for visiting tourists, which of course would discourage much of them from further exploring the town and the local places to drink and dine.

According to the articles, the majority of the townspeople and their officials don&#039;t want it.  Seems like democracy in action to me, and it never surprises me to see how conservatism (neoliberal defense of power/wealth, and in this case Costa) inherently clashes with real democracy. They are directly opposed after all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8216;fight against global capitalism&#8217;</i></p>
<p>You realize that&#8217;s just what The Guardian decided to call their article right? By your reasoning here, any sensible interest in maintaining a community&#8217;s quality of life for all its citizens and local businesses is simple &#8220;NIMBYism&#8221;, a convenient accusation in order to defend neoliberal policy and ideology. Thankfully it&#8217;s one that it is easily dismissed. It easily falls apart considering this is essentially a Starbucks, so it&#8217;s not unsightly or even something that would make people immediately worry about property values or something. They are concerned about local businesses, extracted wealth, and the (outside interest/corporate) foothold that this represents in their town. Also, if you read the article, it seems that the company has targeted this big shop to be at an entry point for visiting tourists, which of course would discourage much of them from further exploring the town and the local places to drink and dine.</p>
<p>According to the articles, the majority of the townspeople and their officials don&#8217;t want it.  Seems like democracy in action to me, and it never surprises me to see how conservatism (neoliberal defense of power/wealth, and in this case Costa) inherently clashes with real democracy. They are directly opposed after all&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510038</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510038</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, chalking everything up to &quot;NIMBYism&quot; also seems a little &lt;em&gt;convenient&lt;/em&gt;.  (For whom?  Cui bono?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, chalking everything up to &#8220;NIMBYism&#8221; also seems a little <em>convenient</em>.  (For whom?  Cui bono?)</p>
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		<title>By: Teller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510036</link>
		<dc:creator>Teller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510036</guid>
		<description>Gee, I don&#039;t know, Navin. As long as it&#039;s convenient, I guess. 
: ) And it is in this case because announcing it&#039;s a &#039;fight against global capitalism&#039; gives it the righteous progressive spin of standing against corporatism when, much more likely, it&#039;s just your garden-variety NIMBYism - an activity that cuts across all ideologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, I don&#8217;t know, Navin. As long as it&#8217;s convenient, I guess.<br />
: ) And it is in this case because announcing it&#8217;s a &#8216;fight against global capitalism&#8217; gives it the righteous progressive spin of standing against corporatism when, much more likely, it&#8217;s just your garden-variety NIMBYism &#8211; an activity that cuts across all ideologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Nash Rambler</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/16/english-seaside-town-with-no-c.html#comment-1510031</link>
		<dc:creator>Nash Rambler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=176738#comment-1510031</guid>
		<description>&quot;They shall go on to the end. They shall fight in Totnes, they shall fight on the seas and oceans, they shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, they shall defend their town, whatever the cost may be. They shall fight on the streets, they shall fight in the alleys, they shall fight in the mixed residential areas, they shall fight in the lobby&#039;s of nondescript office buildings; they shall never surrender. . .&quot;My apologies to Churchill&#039;s ghost.  Sorry Winnie, couldn&#039;t help myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They shall go on to the end. They shall fight in Totnes, they shall fight on the seas and oceans, they shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, they shall defend their town, whatever the cost may be. They shall fight on the streets, they shall fight in the alleys, they shall fight in the mixed residential areas, they shall fight in the lobby&#8217;s of nondescript office buildings; they shall never surrender. . .&#8221;My apologies to Churchill&#8217;s ghost.  Sorry Winnie, couldn&#8217;t help myself.</p>
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