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	<title>Comments on: Kickstarter pen case copied by person who set up their&#160;manufacturing?</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: benher</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1518750</link>
		<dc:creator>benher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 17:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1518750</guid>
		<description>  A surprisingly lucid response to calamity!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>  A surprisingly lucid response to calamity!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: omnivore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1518172</link>
		<dc:creator>omnivore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 14:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1518172</guid>
		<description>The should have equipped the design with DRM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The should have equipped the design with DRM.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1518052</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 08:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1518052</guid>
		<description>If I thought that you were an astroturfer, you and your comments would be gone. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I thought that you were an astroturfer, you and your comments would be gone. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GrigorijGregKail</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517991</link>
		<dc:creator>GrigorijGregKail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 04:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517991</guid>
		<description>My previous comment has mysteriously (wink mod) disappeared - here it is again (edited a bit): 








I have paid 75 bucks for this pen (incl. some cards and shipping) and one year later I still haven&#039;t received it. I&#039;d see how would feel about this. I haven&#039;t tried to sell anything to anybody - all I wanted is to complain about the original pen situation, but apparently my residence in Beijing somehow robs me of this privilege here and I have to explain my IP situation to people, who operate on assumptions and no common sense. It seems I have chosen the wrong venue to bring my complaint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My previous comment has mysteriously (wink mod) disappeared - here it is again (edited a bit): </p>
<p>I have paid 75 bucks for this pen (incl. some cards and shipping) and one year later I still haven&#8217;t received it. I&#8217;d see how would feel about this. I haven&#8217;t tried to sell anything to anybody &#8211; all I wanted is to complain about the original pen situation, but apparently my residence in Beijing somehow robs me of this privilege here and I have to explain my IP situation to people, who operate on assumptions and no common sense. It seems I have chosen the wrong venue to bring my complaint.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517785</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517785</guid>
		<description>The people who were ripped off don&#039;t have the money to vigorously pursue a lawsuit against an opponent who has already made a profit off the product and has associates who can retreat to China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The people who were ripped off don&#8217;t have the money to vigorously pursue a lawsuit against an opponent who has already made a profit off the product and has associates who can retreat to China.</p>
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		<title>By: billstewart</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517724</link>
		<dc:creator>billstewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517724</guid>
		<description>I assume that&#039;s a Mitt Romney snark, but they really are different cases.  

Blind trusts are still your property, so they can still be seized in a lawsuit, but they&#039;re designed in a way that you can avoid conflict-of-interest problems (e.g. you&#039;re Secretary of Defense, so it wouldn&#039;t be possible for you to directly invest in the aircraft industry without the potential for favoritism.)  

Cayman Islands bank accounts and similar systems sometimes work just by hiding their ownership, because almost nobody knows that John Doe #12345 is really Joe Deadbeat, whose ex-spouse or ex-business-partner can&#039;t seize the money because they can&#039;t find it or don&#039;t even know it exists.  But often they work because they&#039;re directly owned by a Caymans corporation (which has to pay some small fees but the Caymans government doesn&#039;t charge income tax on the interest or profits), and the US or UK investor in the corporation is only liable for taxes on the dividends it actually pays him.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume that&#8217;s a Mitt Romney snark, but they really are different cases.  </p>
<p>Blind trusts are still your property, so they can still be seized in a lawsuit, but they&#8217;re designed in a way that you can avoid conflict-of-interest problems (e.g. you&#8217;re Secretary of Defense, so it wouldn&#8217;t be possible for you to directly invest in the aircraft industry without the potential for favoritism.)  </p>
<p>Cayman Islands bank accounts and similar systems sometimes work just by hiding their ownership, because almost nobody knows that John Doe #12345 is really Joe Deadbeat, whose ex-spouse or ex-business-partner can&#8217;t seize the money because they can&#8217;t find it or don&#8217;t even know it exists.  But often they work because they&#8217;re directly owned by a Caymans corporation (which has to pay some small fees but the Caymans government doesn&#8217;t charge income tax on the interest or profits), and the US or UK investor in the corporation is only liable for taxes on the dividends it actually pays him.  </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: B E Pratt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517706</link>
		<dc:creator>B E Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517706</guid>
		<description> I think we need a Bill Gates reference here......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I think we need a Bill Gates reference here&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marcelo Teson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517575</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcelo Teson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 21:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517575</guid>
		<description>Something similar happened to a friend of mine in the food industry - they came up with a product, took it to a manufacturer, decided to part ways and go to a different manufacturer, and sure enough, the first manufacturer and their spouse came out with a competing product.

The lesson here is before you take your product ANYWHERE, you have everyone who&#039;s ever seen it sign an NDA. Then you sue the pants off them if they break it. Thankfully my friends had that and they were able to enforce their ownership. Not much you can do about sending it off to China, but as people have noted, it&#039;s not the Chinese that ripped him off, it&#039;s their American buddy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something similar happened to a friend of mine in the food industry &#8211; they came up with a product, took it to a manufacturer, decided to part ways and go to a different manufacturer, and sure enough, the first manufacturer and their spouse came out with a competing product.</p>
<p>The lesson here is before you take your product ANYWHERE, you have everyone who&#8217;s ever seen it sign an NDA. Then you sue the pants off them if they break it. Thankfully my friends had that and they were able to enforce their ownership. Not much you can do about sending it off to China, but as people have noted, it&#8217;s not the Chinese that ripped him off, it&#8217;s their American buddy.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517499</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517499</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not logged on under FB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not logged on under FB.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: thecleaninglady</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517488</link>
		<dc:creator>thecleaninglady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 19:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517488</guid>
		<description>I blame the MBA: it teaches people to only ask one question: is this profitable (including possible legal expenses)? Asking the question &quot;is this ethical&quot; only draws blank stares and laughs from such crowd.

&quot;Business ethics&quot; is an oxymoron. In business as in war, the entity with least compassion wins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame the MBA: it teaches people to only ask one question: is this profitable (including possible legal expenses)? Asking the question &#8220;is this ethical&#8221; only draws blank stares and laughs from such crowd.</p>
<p>&#8220;Business ethics&#8221; is an oxymoron. In business as in war, the entity with least compassion wins.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EH</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517230</link>
		<dc:creator>EH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517230</guid>
		<description>Of course they&#039;re &quot;real things,&quot; the question is &quot;how real?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course they&#8217;re &#8220;real things,&#8221; the question is &#8220;how real?&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Layne</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1517005</link>
		<dc:creator>Layne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1517005</guid>
		<description>Well I hope this MBArsehole has a backup plan for:
1) Getting sued out the ass for ripping off their idea and product. Not very hard to prove the connection when you essentially collaborated with them on a nearly identical product. 

2) Never getting a shred of business again. This story blows up and links to his name for a long, long time. Who in their right mind will EVER trust him with an IP venture again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I hope this MBArsehole has a backup plan for:<br />
1) Getting sued out the ass for ripping off their idea and product. Not very hard to prove the connection when you essentially collaborated with them on a nearly identical product. </p>
<p>2) Never getting a shred of business again. This story blows up and links to his name for a long, long time. Who in their right mind will EVER trust him with an IP venture again?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Walsh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516999</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516999</guid>
		<description>Al Capone was born in Italy, but found Chicago more conducive to his business model, so why not a Botonian Stanfordite finding China more suportive of piracy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al Capone was born in Italy, but found Chicago more conducive to his business model, so why not a Botonian Stanfordite finding China more suportive of piracy?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ChicagoD</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516989</link>
		<dc:creator>ChicagoD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516989</guid>
		<description>So a Stanford-educated Bostonian is genetically incapable of stealing someone else&#039;s intellectual property and manufacturing it in China, where absolutely nobody would even blink at the theft? Come on, now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So a Stanford-educated Bostonian is genetically incapable of stealing someone else&#8217;s intellectual property and manufacturing it in China, where absolutely nobody would even blink at the theft? Come on, now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TimRowledge</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516985</link>
		<dc:creator>TimRowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516985</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a several part explanation of design patents on www.core77.com - they&#039;re real things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a several part explanation of design patents on <a href="http://www.core77.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.core77.com</a> &#8211; they&#8217;re real things.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516943</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516943</guid>
		<description>Things to do today:

Contact Torr Customer Service at http://torrpens.com/customer-service/ and let them know that their pen is very nice; but I&#039;m interested in the original, and might they have contact information for CW&amp;T? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Things to do today:</p>
<p>Contact Torr Customer Service at <a href="http://torrpens.com/customer-service/" rel="nofollow">http://torrpens.com/customer-service/</a> and let them know that their pen is very nice; but I&#8217;m interested in the original, and might they have contact information for CW&amp;T? </p>
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		<title>By: Daneel</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516900</link>
		<dc:creator>Daneel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516900</guid>
		<description>If they didn&#039;t have a cast iron legal agreement, does that make it acceptable that Allen Arseneau is taking advantage of them? 

Seems like Stanford would definitely have taught him about business ethics on his MBA.

http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-business-school-named-leader-in-teaching-ethics-corporate-social-responsibility-and-environmental-sustainability</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they didn&#8217;t have a cast iron legal agreement, does that make it acceptable that Allen Arseneau is taking advantage of them? </p>
<p>Seems like Stanford would definitely have taught him about business ethics on his MBA.</p>
<p><a href="http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-business-school-named-leader-in-teaching-ethics-corporate-social-responsibility-and-environmental-sustainability" rel="nofollow">http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-business-school-named-leader-in-teaching-ethics-corporate-social-responsibility-and-environmental-sustainability</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: myob1776</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516894</link>
		<dc:creator>myob1776</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516894</guid>
		<description>The designers could have taken steps to protect themselves, not the least of which would have been a detailed and clear agreement with the manufacturing source setting forth things like production targets, delivery schedules, quality control mechanisms, and of course who owns what.  These agreements are quite common and, if done right, stand a very good chance of being enforced even in China.  It might be nice to pretend that all of that  &#039;legal mumbo-jumbo&#039; isn&#039;t necessary, and in cases where a design is just a modest success it might not be.  But when you hit a jackpot, as the designers did here, the money attracts competition.  And if you leave yourself exposed, that competition is going to take full advantage of your mistake.    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The designers could have taken steps to protect themselves, not the least of which would have been a detailed and clear agreement with the manufacturing source setting forth things like production targets, delivery schedules, quality control mechanisms, and of course who owns what.  These agreements are quite common and, if done right, stand a very good chance of being enforced even in China.  It might be nice to pretend that all of that  &#8217;legal mumbo-jumbo&#8217; isn&#8217;t necessary, and in cases where a design is just a modest success it might not be.  But when you hit a jackpot, as the designers did here, the money attracts competition.  And if you leave yourself exposed, that competition is going to take full advantage of your mistake.    </p>
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		<title>By: Morgan Miller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516857</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516857</guid>
		<description>Arseneau needs to be ripped a Neau Arse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arseneau needs to be ripped a Neau Arse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516845</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516845</guid>
		<description>I believe the condemnation was due to the fact that when the RIAA won a multi-million dollar settlement against the Pirate Bay they &lt;em&gt;spent all that money on lobbying for enforcement rather than using it to compensate the original artists&lt;/em&gt;.

I&#039;ll repeat that just to make this issue a little more clear: &lt;em&gt;The RIAA is using IP as a means to use the legal system to steal money from artists.  They do not respect IP any more than the pirates do&lt;/em&gt;.  Probably less, in fact.  RIAA has more in common with this Allen Arsenau guy than with the kickstarter project guys.  So actually it&#039;s completely consistent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the condemnation was due to the fact that when the RIAA won a multi-million dollar settlement against the Pirate Bay they <em>spent all that money on lobbying for enforcement rather than using it to compensate the original artists</em>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll repeat that just to make this issue a little more clear: <em>The RIAA is using IP as a means to use the legal system to steal money from artists.  They do not respect IP any more than the pirates do</em>.  Probably less, in fact.  RIAA has more in common with this Allen Arsenau guy than with the kickstarter project guys.  So actually it&#8217;s completely consistent.</p>
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		<title>By: BarBarSeven</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516831</link>
		<dc:creator>BarBarSeven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516831</guid>
		<description>In the great scheme of things, few people in the world actually give a crap about a pen release date being delayed—including people who gave a crap about this pen—to write as passionately as you do about the topic.  Which is all to say, you clearly are a shill of some sort irregardless of what your IP address is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the great scheme of things, few people in the world actually give a crap about a pen release date being delayed—including people who gave a crap about this pen—to write as passionately as you do about the topic.  Which is all to say, you clearly are a shill of some sort irregardless of what your IP address is.</p>
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		<title>By: cakey pig</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516819</link>
		<dc:creator>cakey pig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516819</guid>
		<description>Why not send Allen a message on LinkedIn?  http://www.linkedin.com/in/allenarseneau</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not send Allen a message on LinkedIn?  <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/allenarseneau" rel="nofollow">http://www.linkedin.com/in/allenarseneau</a></p>
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		<title>By: GrigorijGregKail</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516801</link>
		<dc:creator>GrigorijGregKail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516801</guid>
		<description>Thanks to the the Great Firewall, the only way to get to Facebook and Twitter is to use VPN or proxy, which I let run sometimes, but can not do this all the time, because the network is too slow. The fact, that I am using my facebook account to logon, and it is connected to Kickstarter, by the way, does not add the credibility? Wow...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to the the Great Firewall, the only way to get to Facebook and Twitter is to use VPN or proxy, which I let run sometimes, but can not do this all the time, because the network is too slow. The fact, that I am using my facebook account to logon, and it is connected to Kickstarter, by the way, does not add the credibility? Wow&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516798</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516798</guid>
		<description>The fact that you&#039;ve switched from an untraceable RIPE IP to an APNIC IP over the course of six hours, combined with you being a first-time commenter in a thread which has clearly been astroturfed doesn&#039;t do much for your credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that you&#8217;ve switched from an untraceable RIPE IP to an APNIC IP over the course of six hours, combined with you being a first-time commenter in a thread which has clearly been astroturfed doesn&#8217;t do much for your credibility.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GrigorijGregKail</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516796</link>
		<dc:creator>GrigorijGregKail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516796</guid>
		<description>@boingboing-542ef5a46249a15c851ab4eb222a9ec1:disqus You are SHOCKED? Don&#039;t let your assumptions take over your thinking - not the entire Beijing is focused on making a PR campaign protect some TORR dude. In fact, since the Torr guy is an American, why would he hire somebody in Beijing? Yes, I am not a native English speaker - I am half-German/half-Russian, if it makes any difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@boingboing-542ef5a46249a15c851ab4eb222a9ec1:disqus You are SHOCKED? Don&#8217;t let your assumptions take over your thinking &#8211; not the entire Beijing is focused on making a PR campaign protect some TORR dude. In fact, since the Torr guy is an American, why would he hire somebody in Beijing? Yes, I am not a native English speaker &#8211; I am half-German/half-Russian, if it makes any difference.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516794</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516794</guid>
		<description>Two commenters using the exact same phrases was a bit of a hint that I should check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two commenters using the exact same phrases was a bit of a hint that I should check.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GrigorijGregKail</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516789</link>
		<dc:creator>GrigorijGregKail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516789</guid>
		<description>I live in Beijing (almost two years now). Does it make my comment invalid? No, I am not in the pen or manufacturing industry. Yes, I am a backer of this kickstarter project. No, I have not received my pen yet - the one, that I have paid for a year ago. I am not defensive, I am a guy, who got terrible experience in backing this project. Is it a problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Beijing (almost two years now). Does it make my comment invalid? No, I am not in the pen or manufacturing industry. Yes, I am a backer of this kickstarter project. No, I have not received my pen yet &#8211; the one, that I have paid for a year ago. I am not defensive, I am a guy, who got terrible experience in backing this project. Is it a problem?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sparksseventyfive</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516788</link>
		<dc:creator>sparksseventyfive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516788</guid>
		<description>Grigorij, the Torr guy who &quot;just made the same bloody pens with no fuss&quot; is the very same guy that caused the production hold-ups for cw&amp;t. They were depending on him to deliver, he didn&#039;t, and then he released their product with his name on it.


That&#039;s what makes this story so fucked up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grigorij, the Torr guy who &#8220;just made the same bloody pens with no fuss&#8221; is the very same guy that caused the production hold-ups for cw&amp;t. They were depending on him to deliver, he didn&#8217;t, and then he released their product with his name on it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what makes this story so fucked up.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sparksseventyfive</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516786</link>
		<dc:creator>sparksseventyfive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516786</guid>
		<description>I am SHOCKED.


But also, grateful to an attentive moderator who pointed that out. It seemed obvious from the tone, the not-quite-perfect-English, and the time of day, but it&#039;s great when community management is taken this seriously.

The Torr Pens guys don&#039;t know how the internet works, that&#039;s for sure. But I expect they&#039;ll understand it better when all this is over. 

By now they&#039;ll have hired someone to deal with this for them, someone&#039;s cousin, a &quot;social media guru.&quot; And perhaps they&#039;ll be more creative in their defense than they have been in their design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am SHOCKED.</p>
<p>But also, grateful to an attentive moderator who pointed that out. It seemed obvious from the tone, the not-quite-perfect-English, and the time of day, but it&#8217;s great when community management is taken this seriously.</p>
<p>The Torr Pens guys don&#8217;t know how the internet works, that&#8217;s for sure. But I expect they&#8217;ll understand it better when all this is over. </p>
<p>By now they&#8217;ll have hired someone to deal with this for them, someone&#8217;s cousin, a &#8220;social media guru.&#8221; And perhaps they&#8217;ll be more creative in their defense than they have been in their design.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tynam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/kickstarter-pen-case-copied-by.html#comment-1516771</link>
		<dc:creator>Tynam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=177962#comment-1516771</guid>
		<description>The difference is, with the RIAA the original artist has *already lost* both control of and profit from their product.  Because of the slave-labour nature of music industry contracts and the RIAAs oligarchic control, the musician doesn&#039;t see any of the profit from CD sales - it goes to Sony and Disney lawyers.

With the pen, however, the actual designer makes money from the sales.  Until he gets ripped off.  This is exactly what IP law was originally designed to prevent.  (So is the current state of the music industry, but the RIAA members have succeeded in suborning copyright to serve the exact opposite of the purpose for which it was intended.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is, with the RIAA the original artist has *already lost* both control of and profit from their product.  Because of the slave-labour nature of music industry contracts and the RIAAs oligarchic control, the musician doesn&#8217;t see any of the profit from CD sales &#8211; it goes to Sony and Disney lawyers.</p>
<p>With the pen, however, the actual designer makes money from the sales.  Until he gets ripped off.  This is exactly what IP law was originally designed to prevent.  (So is the current state of the music industry, but the RIAA members have succeeded in suborning copyright to serve the exact opposite of the purpose for which it was intended.)</p>
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