Comments on: LEAKED! TPP: the Son of ACTA will oblige America and other countries to throw out privacy, free speech and due process for easier copyright enforcement http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 26 May 2013 08:51:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Automocar http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1521737 Automocar Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1521737 Tech companies spend more on copyright and intellectual property lobbying than the media companies. Tech companies spend more on copyright and intellectual property lobbying than the media companies.

]]> By: Automocar http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1521732 Automocar Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1521732 Your position is in no way neutral if you're throwing words around like "crooks". Your position is in no way neutral if you’re throwing words around like “crooks”.

]]> By: aconcernedcitizen http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1519958 aconcernedcitizen Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1519958 If memory serves the Internet was created for the purpose of sharing information and data as well as connecting people. And only now it appears that some people in high places have decided that extreme censorship of the Internet is the best option for controlling the populace. Therein lies the error of their judjement. Every time a government wants to spy on the public or restrict their basic rights, they land on the protection wagon, and it is invariably a false argument. It may be illegal for someone to download a copy of Madonna's Greatest Hits but such a deed is not and never will be equal to child abuse or murder. If memory serves the Internet was created for the purpose of sharing information and data as well as connecting people. And only now it appears that some people in high places have decided that extreme censorship of the Internet is the best option for controlling the populace. Therein lies the error of their judjement. Every time a government wants to spy on the public or restrict their basic rights, they land on the protection wagon, and it is invariably a false argument. It may be illegal for someone to download a copy of Madonna’s Greatest Hits but such a deed is not and never will be equal to child abuse or murder.

]]> By: Graham Boyken http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1519480 Graham Boyken Mon, 27 Aug 2012 22:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1519480 Seriously? Seriously?

]]> By: retchdog http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1519450 retchdog Mon, 27 Aug 2012 22:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1519450 @tachin1:disqus  there's also no need to sympathize with them. my position is the neutral one. @tachin1:disqus  there’s also no need to sympathize with them. my position is the neutral one.

]]> By: digi_owl http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1519293 digi_owl Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1519293  Well i was going for sarcasm. Clearly i walked into Poe's Law territory.  Well i was going for sarcasm. Clearly i walked into Poe’s Law territory.

]]> By: Rudd-O http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1519256 Rudd-O Mon, 27 Aug 2012 19:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1519256 Not really.  Intellectual "property" is actually in direct OPPOSITION to property and property rights. People don't usually think about this, but the reality is that enforcing intellectual "property" is nothing more than PUNISHING YOU for your peaceful uses of your own property. E.g. if you use your computer (actual legitimate property) to copy intellectual "property" (not actual property), and who gets punished? You. E.g. you use your throat (actual legitimate property of you) to sing happy birthday (not actual property) in front of enough people, and who gets punished? You. See how it works? You nominally and morally have a right to peacefully use your property, UNLESS someone else who asserts property rights over your stuff (via idiotic intellectual "property" legislation) says otherwise. That whole arrangement is the OPPOSITE of property. The people who profiteer off of intellectual poverty just called it intellectual "property" for P.R. purposes, but -- as you can see from this simple logical deduction -- the reality is that intellectual poverty is a form of ANTI-property which is 100% incompatible / in direct contradiction with all legal and moral precepts surrounding property. That P.R. campaign was a magical stroke of genius that accomplishes three very profitable things for these monopolists: confusing the legal landscape of property rights in favor of the monopolists, weakening ACTUAL property rights by defamatorily blaming the malevolent conequences of intellectual poverty onto the concept property, and associating the virtues normally associated with property rights to monopolies that are NOT property. Win-win-win for them, lose-lose-lose for you and me. Not really.  Intellectual “property” is actually in direct OPPOSITION to property and property rights. People don’t usually think about this, but the reality is that enforcing intellectual “property” is nothing more than PUNISHING YOU for your peaceful uses of your own property. E.g. if you use your computer (actual legitimate property) to copy intellectual “property” (not actual property), and who gets punished? You. E.g. you use your throat (actual legitimate property of you) to sing happy birthday (not actual property) in front of enough people, and who gets punished? You. See how it works? You nominally and morally have a right to peacefully use your property, UNLESS someone else who asserts property rights over your stuff (via idiotic intellectual “property” legislation) says otherwise. That whole arrangement is the OPPOSITE of property.

The people who profiteer off of intellectual poverty just called it intellectual “property” for P.R. purposes, but — as you can see from this simple logical deduction — the reality is that intellectual poverty is a form of ANTI-property which is 100% incompatible / in direct contradiction with all legal and moral precepts surrounding property. That P.R. campaign was a magical stroke of genius that accomplishes three very profitable things for these monopolists: confusing the legal landscape of property rights in favor of the monopolists, weakening ACTUAL property rights by defamatorily blaming the malevolent conequences of intellectual poverty onto the concept property, and associating the virtues normally associated with property rights to monopolies that are NOT property. Win-win-win for them, lose-lose-lose for you and me.

]]> By: Stephen Crowley http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1519151 Stephen Crowley Mon, 27 Aug 2012 18:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1519151 Everyone should start running freenet, it cannot be censored (or, I'd like to see them try). https://freenetproject.org/ Everyone should start running freenet, it cannot be censored (or, I’d like to see them try). https://freenetproject.org/

]]> By: obbop http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518978 obbop Mon, 27 Aug 2012 16:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518978 Obey your corporate masters and their lackey figurehead politicians and bureaucrats you despised mere commoner scum. Love it or leave it!!! Obey your corporate masters and their lackey figurehead politicians and bureaucrats you despised mere commoner scum.

Love it or leave it!!!

]]> By: Damian Barajas http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518962 Damian Barajas Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518962 I don't think this argument holds up, the "gaffers" don't make decisions and they have to make aliving just like everyone else right? Is it their fault that the companies they work for are creating such a mess in the first place? Of course, this doesn't mean that you should go see movies just because you don't want to hurt "The little people", I'm just saying there's no need to demonize them so you can vote with your dollars. I don’t think this argument holds up, the “gaffers” don’t make decisions and they have to make aliving just like everyone else right? Is it their fault that the companies they work for are creating such a mess in the first place? Of course, this doesn’t mean that you should go see movies just because you don’t want to hurt “The little people”, I’m just saying there’s no need to demonize them so you can vote with your dollars.

]]> By: Jay Thomason http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518957 Jay Thomason Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518957 I may not always watch online.  But what I do watch determines what dvd copies I buy.  Cable does not interest me. I may not always watch online.  But what I do watch determines what dvd copies I buy.  Cable does not interest me.

]]> By: Ipo http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518941 Ipo Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518941  What am I looking at?   What am I looking at? 

]]> By: neomunk monk http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518933 neomunk monk Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518933 Boycotts work infinitely better than giving money to those causes you're trying to defeat. Boycotts work infinitely better than giving money to those causes you’re trying to defeat.

]]> By: Stewart Wagner http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518932 Stewart Wagner Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518932 People who work to create products people want to buy, are the "talent." This includes all people working on the production end. No one is saying those people dont deserve money. People who work to create products people want to buy, are the “talent.” This includes all people working on the production end. No one is saying those people dont deserve money.

]]> By: Ima Pseudonym http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518929 Ima Pseudonym Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518929  "... have chilling unintended consequences..." "Unintended."  Tee hee.    ”… have chilling unintended consequences…”

“Unintended.”  Tee hee.  

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518925 Antinous / Moderator Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518925 Yet. Yet.

]]> By: abstract_reg http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518921 abstract_reg Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518921  Our job is to make that dream into a nightmare.  Our job is to make that dream into a nightmare.

]]> By: abstract_reg http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518919 abstract_reg Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518919  Notice Europe is not in the Pacific.  Notice Europe is not in the Pacific.

]]> By: thecleaninglady http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518906 thecleaninglady Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518906 Until we get a law that clearly protects the medium of the internet from censorship, a law similar to the first amendment, we will have all forces that want to control what people say over this medium look for ways to enforce their interests at everyone's expense.  No matter how much we talk amongst ourselves, things will not change. Unless we stand united and cut the root of this evil, its hordes will continue attacking the internet, trying to shut up all the voices that make their shady deeds less shady. And yes, robbing the public domain is a pretty shady deed. Until we get a law that clearly protects the medium of the internet from censorship, a law similar to the first amendment, we will have all forces that want to control what people say over this medium look for ways to enforce their interests at everyone’s expense. 

No matter how much we talk amongst ourselves, things will not change. Unless we stand united and cut the root of this evil, its hordes will continue attacking the internet, trying to shut up all the voices that make their shady deeds less shady.

And yes, robbing the public domain is a pretty shady deed.

]]> By: Steve Anderson http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518896 Steve Anderson Mon, 27 Aug 2012 05:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518896 There is a large international campaign EFF, OpenMedia and others started that you join to stop the TPP here: http://stopthetrap.net There is a large international campaign EFF, OpenMedia and others started that you join to stop the TPP here: http://stopthetrap.net

]]> By: Barney Wills http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518878 Barney Wills Mon, 27 Aug 2012 04:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518878 Feudalism 2: Electric Boogaloo Feudalism 2: Electric Boogaloo

]]> By: ADavies http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518865 ADavies Mon, 27 Aug 2012 03:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518865 WTF Obama?! WTF Obama?!

]]> By: jclark666 http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518851 jclark666 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518851 There may be horrific supression measures in this treaty that will raise free speech issues. There may be legitimate reason for voicing opposition to this.   IANAL, so I make no pretense about being able to read and understand the document.  But all I see here is paranoid ranting filled with vague FUD like "beyond...the spirt of DCMA" and "opens the doors for" and, my personal 'favorite', "if the copyright maximallists have their way...." It's the copyfight equivalent of "The secret Obama-backed UN Arms Trade Treaty will let the UN take your guns!" Can anyone link to a analysis of this treaty with citations, that doesn't read like it was written on a Mad Libs conspiracy theory template? There may be horrific supression measures in this treaty that will raise free speech issues. There may be legitimate reason for voicing opposition to this.   IANAL, so I make no pretense about being able to read and understand the document.  But all I see here is paranoid ranting filled with vague FUD like “beyond…the spirt of DCMA” and “opens the doors for” and, my personal ‘favorite’, “if the copyright maximallists have their way….”

It’s the copyfight equivalent of “The secret Obama-backed UN Arms Trade Treaty will let the UN take your guns!”

Can anyone link to a analysis of this treaty with citations, that doesn’t read like it was written on a Mad Libs conspiracy theory template?

]]> By: rtb61 http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518818 rtb61 Sun, 26 Aug 2012 22:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518818  Here let me correct that statement for you, "the U.S. Government considers campaign dollars more important than the general public's rights". Not to forget blatant acts of corruption, like jobs for family members, book contracts, public speaking contracts, media contracts and, high paying zero effort corporate appointments. Corporate lawyers write up the legislation and pass it direct to douche bag politicians to shove it down the general public's throat.  Here let me correct that statement for you, “the U.S. Government considers campaign dollars more important than the general public’s rights”.
Not to forget blatant acts of corruption, like jobs for family members, book contracts, public speaking contracts, media contracts and, high paying zero effort corporate appointments.
Corporate lawyers write up the legislation and pass it direct to douche bag politicians to shove it down the general public’s throat.

]]> By: Crispiann http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518812 Crispiann Sun, 26 Aug 2012 22:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518812 I love that on these technology freedom and privacy issues there is massive opposition across the right and left. Granted the leaders of our respective parties tend to be less receptive to our concerns... I love that on these technology freedom and privacy issues there is massive opposition across the right and left. Granted the leaders of our respective parties tend to be less receptive to our concerns…

]]> By: Steve Greenberg http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518799 Steve Greenberg Sun, 26 Aug 2012 21:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518799 This treaty is being negotiated by the executive branch.  Complain to your Congress person, then give the White House a call. This treaty is being negotiated by the executive branch.  Complain to your Congress person, then give the White House a call.

]]> By: Political Film Blog http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518797 Political Film Blog Sun, 26 Aug 2012 21:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518797 They keep on pushing.  They will always keep on pushing.  You will always need to push back. They keep on pushing.  They will always keep on pushing.  You will always need to push back.

]]> By: the dude http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518792 the dude Sun, 26 Aug 2012 20:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518792 Wake up. This goes far beyond simple copyright issues. This is the effort of governments who want to control people. Copyright infringement is an excuse. Wake up. This goes far beyond simple copyright issues. This is the effort of governments who want to control people. Copyright infringement is an excuse.

]]> By: machinestate http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518778 machinestate Sun, 26 Aug 2012 19:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518778 Exit drug dealers in the prison-state, enter the ROM dealers. Exit drug dealers in the prison-state, enter the ROM dealers.

]]> By: machinestate http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html#comment-1518776 machinestate Sun, 26 Aug 2012 19:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=178152#comment-1518776 This is certainly not a difficult decision.  I've stopped watching new movies years ago, in protest of studios disregarding original stories in favor of ruining/remaking classics with mediocre "talent", cheesy cgi's, and modern product placements.  On the flipside, now that most of the musical projects I like are forced to go independent, I'm buying alot more music again.  I've also stopped stealing video games... games and music still have plenty of originality left to them and aren't simply generated on profit motives. Also, I don't understand getting rid of print media in favor of more easily-DRM'ed, less-persistent soft copies. This is certainly not a difficult decision.  I’ve stopped watching new movies years ago, in protest of studios disregarding original stories in favor of ruining/remaking classics with mediocre “talent”, cheesy cgi’s, and modern product placements.  On the flipside, now that most of the musical projects I like are forced to go independent, I’m buying alot more music again.  I’ve also stopped stealing video games… games and music still have plenty of originality left to them and aren’t simply generated on profit motives.
Also, I don’t understand getting rid of print media in favor of more easily-DRM’ed, less-persistent soft copies.

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