Comments on: Apparently there is some drama involving Amanda Palmer and the payment of backup musicians

By: retchdog

retchdog — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:29:00 +0000

it’s not ludicrous. it’s merely exaggerated, albeit greatly. folks in big cities get a professional accompaniment, others don’t. ticket’s (roughly) the same price either way.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:33:00 +0000

Interns are hired to do all sorts of work, including “a job that a pro would do.” It just depends upon the level of the internship.

And, apparently, you’re wrong about your claim that “accompanying a professional musician onstage is a job for a pro.” As Palmer has clearly demonstrated, she is willing to give amateurs (that’s how I read “professional-ish”) a shot at sitting in with her, if they’re both (A) passably talented, and (B) willing to do it for beer and hanging with her and the band afterwards. While the miffed pros is this thread ostensibly fit the “(A)” part of the criteria, they clearly don’t fit the “(B)” portion, which is fine–and also not Amanda Palmer’s problem, or of those who DO fit both criteria.

By: Barry Convex

Barry Convex — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:37:00 +0000

Actually I do have the right to my own opinions just as you do.

By: OtherMichael

OtherMichael — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:20:00 +0000

Interns don’t compete for jobs that would otherwise be paid. They are special positions that are given for work experience, and quite often _are_ paid. They are for people at the start of their careers, or prior. But one would never hire an intern to do a job that a pro would do. And accompanying a professional musician onstage is a job for a pro. The first violin in a sympony orchestra is not going to be an intern. If the intern had chops, they’d be offered the paying job as first violin.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:15:00 +0000

Gigging with AFP for free is considered valuable to the people who do it in SOME way. Perhaps they’re huge fans, for whom this is a dream come true. Perhaps they’re young artists who value “getting in front of people” differently than you do. Either way, you have no right to judge them for the decisions they make in that regard, or to look down on Amanda for giving them an opportunity they clearly valued in some way.

By: Barry Convex

Barry Convex — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:33:00 +0000

Depends if the job is normally one that is covered by a union. Unpaid internships are also shit but at least there is the potential for a full time job. Amanda Palmer is not going to be hiring this people full time.

By: The NIALLI$T

The NIALLI$T — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:03:00 +0000

“As long as the entry prices are also in an appropriate range.” WOAH WTF? Is AP also expecting people to PAY entry to the show to play with her?

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:51:00 +0000

Exactly. People whose argument boils down to “BUT 1 MILLION DOLLARZ!!!” clearly did not follow AFP’s Kickstarter, and haven’t bothered to research it in any depth at all.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:49:00 +0000

Then start a “strike.” Make the evil AFP, and all those nasty people who love her and want to gig with her for beer and access feel like the union-busting cretins you apparently think them to be. See how far that gets you.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:42:00 +0000

Your logics are not welcome here. People want to be angry about this, and they’re going to be angry, period. There’s no reasoning it out of them.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:41:00 +0000

More than one artist has used the crowds at an event to put together a live concert video. You don’t want to participate? Don’t. The reason the jobs you mention don’t work for free is because–wait for it–they refuse to to work for free. And gigging with your favorite artist is not the same as doing her books.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:38:00 +0000

No, it’s a “codeword” for those how are–wait for it–actually whiny and butthurt.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:37:00 +0000

This has been the point of most in the “Defend AFP” crowd above–at least that I saw. Your group had a choice to make, and you made it. Good on you, and congrats on the new baby girl!

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:20:00 +0000

Well, they’re not getting paid to jam with Amanda, so “amateur” is not a slur.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:18:00 +0000

Xeni DESERVED to sneer at those who reacted that way.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:16:00 +0000

No, it’s “despicable” that you choose to judge someone that you do not know, and that you presume to know that she is “wealthy” and “abuses her fans love and admiration for her.” THAT, Mulayim, is “truly despicable.”

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:14:00 +0000

You don’t know that. And it doesn’t matter anyways. If a Beastie Boys fan happened to be a professional film maker, he could either choose to participate, or not. Simple.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:12:00 +0000

Then get mad at those who ARE willing to “work for free”, by which we mean, “jam with a gal who’s (most likely) their favorite artist for free.”

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:07:00 +0000

You really have no idea how the “non-music” world works. And you’re also very adept at setting up nonsensical straw men regarding viewpoints with with you disagree.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:02:00 +0000

Then, there’s a simple solution: don’t play the damn gig.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:58:00 +0000

Are businesses who use unpaid (or low-paid) internships “fucking over the unions”?

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:57:00 +0000

Art is not a “job” unless it pays the bills. Period. It can be TREATED as a job by the artist, who chooses to live in a dumpy apartment, eat terribly, etc., but unless the doing of your art is how you pay your bills, it’s not a fucking job.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:54:00 +0000

Unpaid internships are a common (and not looked down upon) part of everyday life. Deal with it.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:51:00 +0000

Ludicrous analogies that are actually analogous to nothing in the current situation are sure fun.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:47:00 +0000

The people agitating against AFP in these comments are just completely clueless. As Tamar wrote, have you seriously never heard of internships?

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:46:00 +0000

Then get mad at THOSE FUCKING PEOPLE, not at Amanda Fucking Palmer!

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:39:00 +0000

Bull. Shit.

In the real world, people “work for free” all the damn time. It’s called “internship”, and people do it to get experience in a field where they want to work.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:37:00 +0000

Calling here an “asshole” is your own subjective opinion. Calling her “bad at business” just shows that you don’t know much about business.

By: Dean Jameson

Dean Jameson — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 08:35:00 +0000

He seems, I don’t know, “right” to me. If you don’t want to do it, don’t do it. And don’t rage at Amanda, rage at the people who ARE willing to do it. If they weren’t willing, she couldn’t do it. Treat them like union scabs or something. Try to make them feel guilty for being willing to play for beer and the chance to hang out with a person they must really admire. See how that works out for you.

By: vette

vette — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 07:44:00 +0000

Snowmentality is right. I’m very much female. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that.