Morrissey at age 17: "Ramones are Rubbish"

A crotchety 17-year-old "Steve" Morrissey complained about the Ramones in a letter that ran in the July 24, 1976 issue of Melody Maker.

Dangerous Minds: Morrissey at age 17: "Ramones are Rubbish"

Mark Frauenfelder is the founder of Boing Boing and the editor-in-chief of MAKE and Cool Tools. Twitter: @frauenfelder. Come and hear Mark speak at the ALA conference in Chicago on July 1.

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acerplatanoides

He’s not exactly wrong, is he?
- Navin_Johnson
  
  Yeah he is, and he kind of unintentionally highlights what is so great about them.
  - acerplatanoides
    
    And, himself
- dolo54
  
  No he’s right about the music, just missed what their appeal was. When in art school a good friend worked/lived with Arturo Vega, The Ramones’ long time friend and artist. He would put on a tape of their shows (I wasn’t a fan at the time) and say “you have to feel their energy, that’s what’s so great about them.” I feel pretty lucky to have met all the Ramones while they were still alive. At the time I didn’t even care really as I wasn’t into them. Joey was so nice in person though. A real sweetheart.
  - ChicagoD
    
    “I feel pretty lucky to have met all the Ramones while they were still alive.”
    
    This. I hear the dead ones are very unpleasant to meet these days.
- wysinwyg
  
  I have yet to meet a single person — even the snobbiest music snob — who actually follows the view that “simple music is bad music” to its logical conclusion. Somehow people who shit on the Ramones or similar bands for being “too simplistic” or whatever don’t turn out to spend all their time listening to Rachmaninoff and Ornette Coleman.
  
  People stopped calling me a “music snob” when I realized a few things and changed my behavior accordingly:
  1) Simple music is often good (complex music often isn’t very good)
  2) So the “goodness” or “badness” of music is a function mostly of subjective taste, not of objective qualities of the music itself
  3) So the proper response to music I don’t like is “This isn’t really my thing,” not “this music sucks and you should feel bad for enjoying it”.
  
  I’ve had much better conversations about music ever since making the change.
  - huskerdont
    
    I came around to this too, largely through punk and the realization that those people who denigrated it in conversations with me, saying metal is superior because of the musicianship, should by extension only be listening to classical and jazz. So, similar conclusion, though I like how yours is stated and will be borrowing it to some extent. But I think it’s a rather natural line for a young, talented, pretentious person to make.
    - wysinwyg
      
      You can also point out that “Kind of Blue” is basically just two notes repeated a few times, then moved up a half step and repeated a few times, then moved back down to root and repeated a few times. Music snobs can go argue with Miles Davis if they want.
      - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BOOM27DBLMZQIJVK4BQLE7K5YA Nagurski
        
        Dead men refute no assertions.
  - acerplatanoides
    
    I agree with your points, but I’m not sure your reply is to me.
    - wysinwyg
      
      If you agree with Morrissey that “Ramones are rubbish” because they “make MC5 look like concertmasters” then my reply was very much to you.
      - acerplatanoides
        
        If you think I agree with Morriseys assessment absolutely, because I pointed out how not entirely wrong he was, then you’re very much talking to yourself.
        
        Also, your snobbery, you may not have come as far with it as you think.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/BSZP6W2QIYW4GQBNBRKFZDRANU Keyou Arian
    
    ya, but the proper response to music by Britney Spears, or Bieber, etc. isn’t “this really isn’t my thing”…
- http://twitter.com/EylerWerve Jonathan Eyler-Werve
  
  My thought as well. All the bands he holds up as better – Stooges, New York Dolls – are more subtle, more varied, and more interesting. The Ramones were and are party rock.
  - Navin_Johnson
    
    Exactly, and sometimes you want to PARTY to some of the most tuneful short fast and fun music ever made!
  - http://www.ikaink.net Itsumishi
    
    He may have been indicating the Stooges were better, but he still seemed to be shitting on them.
    
    I don’t give a crap, I love every band he’s mentioned and I love The Smiths and I love half of his solo stuff. Also his hair. Morrissey had great hair.
http://profile.yahoo.com/5U374XQBP6C5BRWVFPITIGECBI J

Wow, it kind of reads like a scathing troll post that lacks sincerity; all the while pumping out hyperbole to fluff out an attempt at controversy.

I could imagine Morrissey would have never wrote awesome music with The Smiths if the internet were at its capacity then as it is now. He’d be too busy trollin’.
Navin_Johnson

The boy with the thorn in his butt…..

Just a few of the NYC bands unworthy of any praise that would have been part of that scene:

Talking Heads, The Cramps, Television, Suicide, Blondie and so on…

Ah but Morrissey, I still loves ya.
- jwgl23
  
  If you have never listened to Television, I suggest their first album, Marquee Moon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquee_Moon
  - Navin_Johnson
    
    I first heard them about 25 years ago and have been a super-fan and collector ever since.
  - http://www.facebook.com/ian.brewer1 Ian Brewer
    
    Marquee Moon never gets old.
- huskerdont
  
  As I was reading him saying only Patti Smith and NYD were worthy, I was puzzling over the Television omission myself. But then I realized Marquee Moon only came out in 1977, and this is 1976. Still, to say that those are the only two artists in the city worthy of note shows and arrogance that can only be described as admirable, and was perhaps a trait necessary for some of the greater Smiths lyrics.
  - Navin_Johnson
    
    Good point, if he was only getting records in England I suppose he may not have known about all the bands in that existing scene.
  - ChicagoD
    
    Arrogance compounded by the fact that (as far as I know) he’d never even been to New York, let alone explored the music scene.
    - fuzzyfuzzyfungus
      
      Which arguably loops right back to ‘arrogance’, since he was making authoritative pronouncements about the place…
      - Donald Petersen
        
        There’s a 17-year-old for you.
- Beanolini
  
  Just a few of the NYC bands unworthy of any praise that would have been part of that scene:
  Talking Heads, The Cramps, Television, Suicide, Blondie and so on…
  
  Don’t know about the others, but Morrissey certainly liked The Cramps- so much that he started a fan club (which The Cramps themselves later demanded be shut down).
  
  This letter was just one of many outspoken pronouncements in the letters pages of UK music magazines.
hymenopterid

Sounds like someone needs to be loved.
- lysdexia
  
  But he’d love that … But he’d hate that … Isn’t that Stuuuuuupid?
http://twitter.com/dailyrev Brian Donohue

I can’t remember what episode this is in, but there was a studio segment in MST3K — it was an invention exchange thing with the Mads — with “Morrissey” coming out of a coffin-shaped box and moping hilariously. I’m sure if you look for it on youtube you’ll find it.
- Felton / Moderator
  
  Did I mention that I cried?
  - Antinous / Moderator
    
    Clown Fucker
Paul Coleman

You’ve neatly put another tick in the column of the “which show do I go to that night” for Mike Watt. Morrissey/Watt are playing the same night in Albany, NY in October. I have two separate parts of my high school self that are arguing the case. In Morrissey’s favor, I never saw him or the Smiths. In Watt’s favor, I saw him a year and a half ago and it was AMAZZZZEEEEEING.
- http://www.facebook.com/andrewzacharywolf Andrew Wolf
  
  Having seen them both I’d say go for the Morrissey show.
  - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BOOM27DBLMZQIJVK4BQLE7K5YA Nagurski
    
    Spit take. Edit: Never mind, I didn’t read the post above yours and thought the comparison was between a Ramones and and Morrisey show.
laurent

30 years later…

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maor20oW6D1r6t6uso1_500.jpg
Boundegar

I thank God I’m not important enough for anybody to dredge up the foolish things I wrote when I was 17.
Brainspore

Now let’s see his review of the alternative rock band “Garbage.”
- noah django
  
  though I lack Morrisey’s credentials, I gotta say they were pretty great at Music Midtown last weekend.
  annnd it loads my photo sideways. welcome to amateur hour ＼（－－）／マイッタ
http://disqus.com/Kimmoth/ Kimmo

I always wondered what folks saw in the Ramones myself.

Joey: “We decided to start our own group because we were bored with everything we heard. In 1974 everything was tenth-generation Led Zeppelin, tenth-generation Elton John, or overproduced, or just junk. Everything was long jams, long guitar solos…. We missed music like it used to be.”

Someone prolly shoulda told em about MC5 or The Stooges.

If I wanna listen to some punk, these guys don’t cut any ice with me… Dead Kennedys all the way.
- fuzzyfuzzyfungus
  
  “If I wanna listen to some punk, these guys don’t cut any ice with me… Dead Kennedys all the way.”
  
  Curiously, Jello Biafra is apparently not of that view…
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpEf2uzXunc
  
  (This is not, obviously, a ‘refutation’ or anything; but it seemed worth noting.)
  - lysdexia
    
    A former girlfriend almost bumped into Joey coming out of a store. She was taken aback and said “Joey Ramone!”
    
    Joey: (smiling) “Yeah?”
    FGF: “Uhh. Good!”
    
    I like to think I would have been more eloquent and have stopped at “Uhh.”
  - http://disqus.com/Kimmoth/ Kimmo
    
    I have to agree with Ian down the page.
    
    …straight power chords or non-political lyrics didn’t inspire me much. I liked high energy, originality, a rhythm riff, a tasty lead and some harmonic feedback here and there with a dose of social/political critique or just counter-culture badassness.
    
    Jello’s obit there certainly pays homage to em as counter-culture badarses, and I can appreciate their importance of course, but their sound never did a thing for me, and AFAIK, their lyrics wouldn’t have either…
    
    Just sayin’.
- http://twitter.com/glamaFez glamaFez
  
  Johnny was a big fan of the MC5 and was influenced by Fred “Sonic” Smith.
  http://johnnyramone.com/RamonesMC5Stooges.html
- Navin_Johnson
  
  Both bands were basically broken up or over by that point. Besides, I’m sure he was bemoaning what was popular and being played on the radio at the time, which to just give you an idea:
  
  http://www.oldradioshows.com/at100/1974.html
  - http://disqus.com/Kimmoth/ Kimmo
    
    Yeah, to be fair, I was being a bit of a smartarse with that call. Used to work for a guy who’d tell me about the 70s as something to be musically endured… reckoned if he never heard ‘Hotel California’ again he could die a happy man.
- laurent
  
  Johnny Ramone in Ugly Things #14:
  “U.T.: What were the MC5 like live?
  J.R. : Really good, but I saw something better in the Stooges. I really like MC5, so I don’t wanna say anything negative (…) somehow the Stooges transcended that. It was just so sick, the whole show…”
- http://www.facebook.com/andrewzacharywolf Andrew Wolf
  
  Funny because seeing the Ramones inspired Jello to start a punk band. check this song out
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCDxdQv9MCs
annoyingmouse

A rather Morrissey-like way for him to say “Why are The Ramones getting more attention than my precious New York Dolls?” Was he not president of The New York Dolls fanclub in the UK at this point?
Tchoutoye

He wrote “discordant” as if it were a bad thing! No wonder the scorn of Eris befell him in later years.
semiotix

History would record that that angry young man would soon move from Manchester to Detroit, Michigan. There, he met a young woman named Susie who understood why he was so passionate about music. For you see, Steve Morrisey was blind. He cared so much because sound was so much a part of how he interacted with the world. For Steve, music was, as he said, the only real way to experience the “wonder” that life had to offer.

Susie encouraged him to make his own music, to share with the world the sweet, shy, tender man she had come to love. Soon people all over the Motor City were flocking to hear his music. His songs, soulful and cheerful and melodic, were a runaway hit.

But the record companies didn’t like the name “Steve Morrissey.” So for his debut album, Songs in the Key of Life, he changed it… to Stevie Wonder.

And now you know… the rest of the story.
- ChicagoD
  
  Oh my god. The resemblance is uncanny!
Nathan Bowerbank

This is the best expression I’ve ever run across of my feelings about Morrissey, it was true when I was 12 (25 years ago), and it’s still true today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20UYhP8vIQ
- http://disqus.com/Kimmoth/ Kimmo
  
  Bwaaahahahahahah…
  
  I tip my hat to whoever compiled that clip; that’s some dedicated hate.
fancyfeast

Sometimes I can listen to Morrissey, but most of the time I can’t get over the same damn minor third he sings over and over, changing only to be slightly more out of tune than the last one. Puzzling how the effect is half pleasing and infuriating at the same time.
James Penrose

Does he also pronounce water as being wet? Sometimes a 17 year old can have a valid opinion.
http://www.facebook.com/ian.brewer1 Ian Brewer

When it comes to criticism, be it about music, art or literature, I find it best to stick with praising what you like and just ignore what you don’t, it’s all highly subjective after all.

For myself, if someone is out there creating something, that’s enough for me. If it resonates with me, all the better, but I don’t feel the need to knock other people’s work.

Although I’ve tried to get into them, I’ve never been that big of a fan of either Morrissey or the Ramones. Most of my friends are big fans of one or the other or both, but they simply didn’t resonate much with me, that doesn’t discredit their work. My first exposure to punk was the Sex Pistols and I preferred to listen to political punk with some guitar flare or originality. My biggest influences at the time were the Pistols, Heartbreakers and Gang of Four. As a guitar player and political radical before punk, straight power chords or non-political lyrics didn’t inspire me much. I liked high energy, originality, a rhythm riff, a tasty lead and some harmonic feedback here and there with a dose of social/political critique or just counter-culture badassness.

I met Johnny and Dee Dee in ’80 or ’81 when they showed up at a party after they played in my hometown. We gave them a copy of our single. It was a fun concert and they seemed like amiable enough guys. They both freaked out when I opened a beer with my teeth. Of course, I didn’t know anything about Johnny’s political preferences at the time, he just seemed like any other guy in a leather jacket. I saw them play a few times after that.
Philboyd Studge

Thanks for providing a brand new reason why Morrissey is a complete and total wanker. Now off to dig up a certain Warlock Pinchers 12″ to listen to.
http://www.6minutes.com.au/ 6minutes

LP winner? I wonder what he got … Sandie Shaw’s Greatest HIts?