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	<title>Comments on: Why the fedora grosses out&#160;geekdom</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: novium</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548474</link>
		<dc:creator>novium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548474</guid>
		<description>Does it? I thought it was a generic (and non-gendered!) meme for exaggerated disappointment/sadness/loneliness. Not exactly the same. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it? I thought it was a generic (and non-gendered!) meme for exaggerated disappointment/sadness/loneliness. Not exactly the same. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: oasisob1</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548459</link>
		<dc:creator>oasisob1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548459</guid>
		<description>And a sticker on your shirt that says &#039;HELLO! My name is Jeffrey Sinclair&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And a sticker on your shirt that says &#8216;HELLO! My name is Jeffrey Sinclair&#8217;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: case0004</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548424</link>
		<dc:creator>case0004</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548424</guid>
		<description>fedoras are silly. but so is the ridiculously-speculative, link-something-random-to-sexism, victimize-socially-awkward-people, cliche internet article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fedoras are silly. but so is the ridiculously-speculative, link-something-random-to-sexism, victimize-socially-awkward-people, cliche internet article.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: schlocktober</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548405</link>
		<dc:creator>schlocktober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548405</guid>
		<description>Fedora = Balding + Doesn&#039;t Like Sports</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fedora = Balding + Doesn&#8217;t Like Sports</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: grumble-bum</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548369</link>
		<dc:creator>grumble-bum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548369</guid>
		<description> Yeah, exactly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Yeah, exactly!</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley Yakeley</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548370</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley Yakeley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548370</guid>
		<description>&quot;Forever alone&quot; is actually worse, because it refers &lt;em&gt;precisely&lt;/em&gt; to being of low value to women, whereas one can be fat and attractive to men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Forever alone&#8221; is actually worse, because it refers <em>precisely</em> to being of low value to women, whereas one can be fat and attractive to men.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grumble-bum</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548366</link>
		<dc:creator>grumble-bum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548366</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I seem to recall the fedora (not trilby, etc.) as being a signifier of a certain type of geeky person, waaay back in the late 80&#039;s/early 90&#039;s. Like, paired with a duster coat. 

Is it possible that the modern adopters of this look are calling back to this as a touchstone, perhaps in memory of weird uncles or older brothers?

Also, relative to the endless nice guy/creep thing, DAMN MY LIFE IS GREAT. WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I seem to recall the fedora (not trilby, etc.) as being a signifier of a certain type of geeky person, waaay back in the late 80&#8242;s/early 90&#8242;s. Like, paired with a duster coat. </p>
<p>Is it possible that the modern adopters of this look are calling back to this as a touchstone, perhaps in memory of weird uncles or older brothers?</p>
<p>Also, relative to the endless nice guy/creep thing, DAMN MY LIFE IS GREAT. WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: grumble-bum</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548354</link>
		<dc:creator>grumble-bum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548354</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that. 

I know I&#039;ve had periods of fitting into one or the other of the categories you&#039;ve listed. I think that suffering from a &quot;nice guy problem&quot; (whichever one fits) is not a permanent state. The conception of &quot;why&quot; it&#039;s a &quot;problem&quot; becomes more sophisticated as we age, hopefully, and eventually it ceases to be a &quot;problem&quot; at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that. </p>
<p>I know I&#8217;ve had periods of fitting into one or the other of the categories you&#8217;ve listed. I think that suffering from a &#8220;nice guy problem&#8221; (whichever one fits) is not a permanent state. The conception of &#8220;why&#8221; it&#8217;s a &#8220;problem&#8221; becomes more sophisticated as we age, hopefully, and eventually it ceases to be a &#8220;problem&#8221; at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548312</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548312</guid>
		<description>On an unrelated note, anybody else going to see Elvis Costello at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass in S.F. this Friday?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On an unrelated note, anybody else going to see Elvis Costello at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass in S.F. this Friday?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Singe</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548298</link>
		<dc:creator>Singe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548298</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a fedora, but I only wear it on hot sunny days outside. It&#039;s simply practical. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a fedora, but I only wear it on hot sunny days outside. It&#8217;s simply practical. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548256</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548256</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Because it&#039;s okay for gay men to be a little fem.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I can&#039;t say that I&#039;ve observed that since c. 1975.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Because it&#8217;s okay for gay men to be a little fem.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can&#8217;t say that I&#8217;ve observed that since c. 1975.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548215</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548215</guid>
		<description>Not necessarily; a Montrose doublet doesn&#039;t have tails.  And you wouldn&#039;t wear a top hat with Highland dress, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not necessarily; a Montrose doublet doesn&#8217;t have tails.  And you wouldn&#8217;t wear a top hat with Highland dress, anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: desiredusername</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548162</link>
		<dc:creator>desiredusername</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548162</guid>
		<description>I think this all this &quot;DO NOT WANT&quot; dating messaging is directed at the &quot;oddball jazz-aficionado amongst the rockers&quot; look from the 80s. The loner young man who goes in his own direction and surprises the love interest in how deep his passion goes for listening to jazz records while everyone else is listening to Wham or something. However for many people, chances are the link to an &quot;against-the-grain&quot; passion for jazz has been removed and only the image remains AKA a pastiche of what once represented someone with a sense of appreciation and style that was a cut above the rest. I can appreciate that criticism.

What I see getting unfortunately lumped in this messaging is the surfer/skater trilby with an appreciation of 50s vacation culture and good hearted geek/nerds that loves trench coats and noir imagery. In my opinion it&#039;s easy to hate on the nerds and unwarrantedly insensitive. As far the youthful surfer trilby surfer/skate culture, if the person has the character associated with the hat, they won&#039;t care if a bunch of random internet people want to date them or not. Chances are they wouldn&#039;t be on OKC anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this all this &#8220;DO NOT WANT&#8221; dating messaging is directed at the &#8220;oddball jazz-aficionado amongst the rockers&#8221; look from the 80s. The loner young man who goes in his own direction and surprises the love interest in how deep his passion goes for listening to jazz records while everyone else is listening to Wham or something. However for many people, chances are the link to an &#8220;against-the-grain&#8221; passion for jazz has been removed and only the image remains AKA a pastiche of what once represented someone with a sense of appreciation and style that was a cut above the rest. I can appreciate that criticism.</p>
<p>What I see getting unfortunately lumped in this messaging is the surfer/skater trilby with an appreciation of 50s vacation culture and good hearted geek/nerds that loves trench coats and noir imagery. In my opinion it&#8217;s easy to hate on the nerds and unwarrantedly insensitive. As far the youthful surfer trilby surfer/skate culture, if the person has the character associated with the hat, they won&#8217;t care if a bunch of random internet people want to date them or not. Chances are they wouldn&#8217;t be on OKC anyway.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: novium</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548156</link>
		<dc:creator>novium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548156</guid>
		<description>Relating to women as people rather than consumable objects- yes. That is exactly the phrase I&#039;ve been trying to nail down for a while. Thank you. I guess the thing that used to get to me was that these guys who were in the same group as me would gripe about &quot;women&quot; (and oh my god, it was so over the top misogynistic that in retrospect I&#039;m kind of shocked I tolerated it) and about how all women were this or all women were that and what they were really meant was &quot;women I want to sleep with&quot;, because women they knew who they had platonic relationships with didn&#039;t...count as women. And I don&#039;t mean in a &quot;you&#039;re the exception&quot; kind of way, but in a kind of &quot;you don&#039;t count as a person&quot; way too. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relating to women as people rather than consumable objects- yes. That is exactly the phrase I&#8217;ve been trying to nail down for a while. Thank you. I guess the thing that used to get to me was that these guys who were in the same group as me would gripe about &#8220;women&#8221; (and oh my god, it was so over the top misogynistic that in retrospect I&#8217;m kind of shocked I tolerated it) and about how all women were this or all women were that and what they were really meant was &#8220;women I want to sleep with&#8221;, because women they knew who they had platonic relationships with didn&#8217;t&#8230;count as women. And I don&#8217;t mean in a &#8220;you&#8217;re the exception&#8221; kind of way, but in a kind of &#8220;you don&#8217;t count as a person&#8221; way too. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: novium</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548153</link>
		<dc:creator>novium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548153</guid>
		<description>Or to an internet meme. Even if you take it as a categorization, it&#039;s still not as tied to the person himself as factors like race, sex, or body type. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or to an internet meme. Even if you take it as a categorization, it&#8217;s still not as tied to the person himself as factors like race, sex, or body type. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548096</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548096</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s people like you that make the Alliance of Magicians necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s people like you that make the Alliance of Magicians necessary.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Fabulous Wolf</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548074</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabulous Wolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548074</guid>
		<description> That was really thoughtful article. Like most things nowadays, it&#039;s just one of those things entangled among the much more serious issues that no one person is capable of dealing with, especially when there are a much larger crowd militantly defending the status quo. Having said that. Most of those pics with fedoras looked pretty cool. I want a fedora now!

If I have to fall on one side of the fence, I think it has to be pro-fedoras. Projecting your feelings onto a group of people is never a great thing, even if you can usually understand the sentiment. The fedora mocking is really petty though, and it&#039;s coming from an ugly place, and it&#039;s being sanctioned by a number of people who should be able to sympathize with being humiliated, insulted and put down.

Having said that, taking pictures of yourself always teeters dangerously close to lameness, so it won&#039;t hurt you to not have pictures of yourself in a fancy hat floating on the webs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> That was really thoughtful article. Like most things nowadays, it&#8217;s just one of those things entangled among the much more serious issues that no one person is capable of dealing with, especially when there are a much larger crowd militantly defending the status quo. Having said that. Most of those pics with fedoras looked pretty cool. I want a fedora now!</p>
<p>If I have to fall on one side of the fence, I think it has to be pro-fedoras. Projecting your feelings onto a group of people is never a great thing, even if you can usually understand the sentiment. The fedora mocking is really petty though, and it&#8217;s coming from an ugly place, and it&#8217;s being sanctioned by a number of people who should be able to sympathize with being humiliated, insulted and put down.</p>
<p>Having said that, taking pictures of yourself always teeters dangerously close to lameness, so it won&#8217;t hurt you to not have pictures of yourself in a fancy hat floating on the webs.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rezeya Montecore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548075</link>
		<dc:creator>Rezeya Montecore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548075</guid>
		<description>*applause*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*applause*</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rezeya Montecore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548069</link>
		<dc:creator>Rezeya Montecore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548069</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m aware of the idea of complementary colors, thanks. I dated an artist for five years, for chrissake. 

You&#039;re totally failing to address the social aspect of what precise rights &quot;looking awful&quot; gives you or others to behave in a rude fashion towards them. Even if the combination of, say, two clashing colors offends your sensibilities in some manner, the offense is still very subjective and the response is still socially constructed. The very notion that wearing two clashing colors -- or &quot;looking bad&quot; at all -- is opprobrious to the point of deserving mockery is what I&#039;m trying to attack. 

So yes, I have a persecution complex about people being attacked for what they&#039;re wearing. Why? Because I&#039;ve had some very dear friends attacked for what they were wearing. Reality matching up to your fears will give you issues that way. 

But the bit about the &quot;cool kids&quot; was just an attempt at playful sarcasm. I like sarcasm. Example: &quot;Thank you so much for having given me the benefit of the doubt, Thomas.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m aware of the idea of complementary colors, thanks. I dated an artist for five years, for chrissake. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re totally failing to address the social aspect of what precise rights &#8220;looking awful&#8221; gives you or others to behave in a rude fashion towards them. Even if the combination of, say, two clashing colors offends your sensibilities in some manner, the offense is still very subjective and the response is still socially constructed. The very notion that wearing two clashing colors &#8212; or &#8220;looking bad&#8221; at all &#8212; is opprobrious to the point of deserving mockery is what I&#8217;m trying to attack. </p>
<p>So yes, I have a persecution complex about people being attacked for what they&#8217;re wearing. Why? Because I&#8217;ve had some very dear friends attacked for what they were wearing. Reality matching up to your fears will give you issues that way. </p>
<p>But the bit about the &#8220;cool kids&#8221; was just an attempt at playful sarcasm. I like sarcasm. Example: &#8220;Thank you so much for having given me the benefit of the doubt, Thomas.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Churba S</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1548036</link>
		<dc:creator>Churba S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1548036</guid>
		<description>Eh, I figure it narrows it down. It&#039;s not an uncommon response from my friends who don&#039;t know much about cars, and also, where I come from, there are plenty of situations where &quot;What kind of car do you drive?&#039; directly translates to &quot;Do you drive a Holden, or a Ford?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, I figure it narrows it down. It&#8217;s not an uncommon response from my friends who don&#8217;t know much about cars, and also, where I come from, there are plenty of situations where &#8220;What kind of car do you drive?&#8217; directly translates to &#8220;Do you drive a Holden, or a Ford?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tess</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547961</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547961</guid>
		<description>Hmmmm.  I have a lot of fedoras, and as of last year wore them all the time - particularly a beat-up old brown suede one I got for $5 at a thrift shop.  It had a dead man&#039;s name written inside it in felt-tip, now smudged beyond salvation, and the original feather.  I have a really torn-up brown suede jacket too; I wore them together a lot.  I should do that again now that it&#039;s not so hot out, actually.  I miss my favorite hat.


I like my hats, but I&#039;m not a guy, so I suppose all the hate doesn&#039;t really apply to me - although actually I mostly wear my hats when I&#039;m dressing like a guy (dapper butch me) and sometimes I get &quot;sirred&quot; when I do.  

I think what gets me about this article - and a lot of these comments - is the level of fashion policing going on.  I might like or not like someone&#039;s style choice, and I&#039;ll admit sometimes I can get fairly snarky about it, particularly if they&#039;re being an utter ass.  (That asshole preacher the other day - why did he think saddle shoes were a good choice with his ensemble?)  But usually, if someone thinks they look good, I&#039;m all for it.  People can wear the most ridiculous things, and if they&#039;re happy about it, so am I.  The woman at the airport in red skinny jeans, a chartreuse short corduroy jacket, peacock-blue top, and bright orange scarf?  She looked awesome!
Last year, in addition to fedoras, I had a lot of fun wearing multiple plaids.  It was a game: how many forms of plaid can I wear at once? (Socks, shirt, coat, hat, gloves, scarf.) This year, while multiple plaids are still kicking around in my thrift-store-eclectic and gender-complex wardrobe, I&#039;m enjoying mismatching patterns:  plaid with argyle with stripes, generally.  I am not doing this to look cool; my default assumption is that if I do something it is automatically Not Cool (although a batch of Terribly Cool people in mismatched plaid walked past me the other day, confusingly).  I just like to amuse myself with my version of Not Cool.  

I can&#039;t really buy the fedora = Entitled Nice Guy thing. I mean, geekdom is chock-full of Entitled Nice Guys, so if geek guys are wearing lots of fedoras, there you have it...  but it&#039;s not the hat that should take the blame.If my hat and other fashion choices screen out people I wouldn&#039;t want to date because OH GODS THE JUDGEY, I suppose that works out well.  So far I end up dating people who look at my sometimes rather strange outfits and think I look fun and interesting. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm.  I have a lot of fedoras, and as of last year wore them all the time &#8211; particularly a beat-up old brown suede one I got for $5 at a thrift shop.  It had a dead man&#8217;s name written inside it in felt-tip, now smudged beyond salvation, and the original feather.  I have a really torn-up brown suede jacket too; I wore them together a lot.  I should do that again now that it&#8217;s not so hot out, actually.  I miss my favorite hat.</p>
<p>I like my hats, but I&#8217;m not a guy, so I suppose all the hate doesn&#8217;t really apply to me &#8211; although actually I mostly wear my hats when I&#8217;m dressing like a guy (dapper butch me) and sometimes I get &#8220;sirred&#8221; when I do.  </p>
<p>I think what gets me about this article &#8211; and a lot of these comments &#8211; is the level of fashion policing going on.  I might like or not like someone&#8217;s style choice, and I&#8217;ll admit sometimes I can get fairly snarky about it, particularly if they&#8217;re being an utter ass.  (That asshole preacher the other day &#8211; why did he think saddle shoes were a good choice with his ensemble?)  But usually, if someone thinks they look good, I&#8217;m all for it.  People can wear the most ridiculous things, and if they&#8217;re happy about it, so am I.  The woman at the airport in red skinny jeans, a chartreuse short corduroy jacket, peacock-blue top, and bright orange scarf?  She looked awesome!<br />
Last year, in addition to fedoras, I had a lot of fun wearing multiple plaids.  It was a game: how many forms of plaid can I wear at once? (Socks, shirt, coat, hat, gloves, scarf.) This year, while multiple plaids are still kicking around in my thrift-store-eclectic and gender-complex wardrobe, I&#8217;m enjoying mismatching patterns:  plaid with argyle with stripes, generally.  I am not doing this to look cool; my default assumption is that if I do something it is automatically Not Cool (although a batch of Terribly Cool people in mismatched plaid walked past me the other day, confusingly).  I just like to amuse myself with my version of Not Cool.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t really buy the fedora = Entitled Nice Guy thing. I mean, geekdom is chock-full of Entitled Nice Guys, so if geek guys are wearing lots of fedoras, there you have it&#8230;  but it&#8217;s not the hat that should take the blame.If my hat and other fashion choices screen out people I wouldn&#8217;t want to date because OH GODS THE JUDGEY, I suppose that works out well.  So far I end up dating people who look at my sometimes rather strange outfits and think I look fun and interesting. </p>
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		<title>By: - -</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547953</link>
		<dc:creator>- -</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547953</guid>
		<description>So... your point is that those geeks who wear fedoras (I don&#039;t, I think the brims tend to be too narrow for them to be practical, but to each their own) are doing it wrong because they aren&#039;t the socially experienced, popular people?

I&#039;m sure there&#039;s a lot of 80s high school drama villains who agree that being socially awkward is enough to merit the condescending tone and derisive attitude, but in the real world, that&#039;s just mean.

Your taking the most stereotypical anti-geek stance ever portrayed in popular culture, with the added benefit of singling out an arbitrary sub-group aside, let&#039;s examine your actual claims.
You tell about the &#039;forever alone&#039; jokes, the &#039;no women on the internet&#039; meme. Yeah, those exist, no wonder, and in all fairness have some basis in truth: among my friends, their degree of geekiness has always been inversely correlated with the ease with which they make any romantic connections.
And yes, female geeks were, historically, comparably rare, and in my direct environment still are. Does that mean I&#039;m hostile to any females who self-identify as geeks? Of course not, the fact there are fewer geeks doesn&#039;t mean that&#039;s something any male geek experiences as desireable.

You also tell about geeks who were fedoras. However, nowhere do you provide a credible link between the two except for those people who link them solely for the purpose of picking on the geeks wearing these fedoras - who are, tautologically, not unbiased sources.
We could as well say that they&#039;re wearing the hats because it was an era when a man could take a tommy gun and shoot all who cross them. Or an era when (practically) every guy was a former soldier (we -are- talking interwar period here). Or, more closely related to the theme, because they wish for a time when male fashion was so strict and uniform that all men wore very similar clothing at most times, because it would provide a form of brotherhood. Or maybe a time when notorious criminals could walk the streets, live in luxury and style, and still maintain some sort of code of honour. Or twenty thousand other things.
If anything, &#039;when a doll was just a doll&#039; is one of the worst possibilities available: the Roaring Twenties started with women&#039;s right to vote and included some of the greatest progress in male and female equality. A doll was -not- just a doll in the era of fedoras.

Finally, let&#039;s take a look at your complaints about the idea of the &#039;friend zone&#039;. If you think being a geek, fedora-wearing or otherwise, makes people any more or less subject to the phenomenon, I&#039;m afraid I&#039;ll have to prove you wrong. With that greatest of all things, SCIENCE, I can illustrate that it is a general phenomenon among men, without making a qualitative judgement:
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/12452915-423/sexual-tension-simmers-in-many-male-female-friendships.html


So to sum up:
1. Your point could have been made by a stereotypical villain.
2. You provide no credible connection between fedoras and any attitude towards women.
3. Your suggested reasons for wearing a fedora are factually disprovable, with many better alternatives available.
4. The attitudes you try to shove into the hands of this arbitrary group of people are, in fact, very broad and general.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; your point is that those geeks who wear fedoras (I don&#8217;t, I think the brims tend to be too narrow for them to be practical, but to each their own) are doing it wrong because they aren&#8217;t the socially experienced, popular people?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a lot of 80s high school drama villains who agree that being socially awkward is enough to merit the condescending tone and derisive attitude, but in the real world, that&#8217;s just mean.</p>
<p>Your taking the most stereotypical anti-geek stance ever portrayed in popular culture, with the added benefit of singling out an arbitrary sub-group aside, let&#8217;s examine your actual claims.<br />
You tell about the &#8216;forever alone&#8217; jokes, the &#8216;no women on the internet&#8217; meme. Yeah, those exist, no wonder, and in all fairness have some basis in truth: among my friends, their degree of geekiness has always been inversely correlated with the ease with which they make any romantic connections.<br />
And yes, female geeks were, historically, comparably rare, and in my direct environment still are. Does that mean I&#8217;m hostile to any females who self-identify as geeks? Of course not, the fact there are fewer geeks doesn&#8217;t mean that&#8217;s something any male geek experiences as desireable.</p>
<p>You also tell about geeks who were fedoras. However, nowhere do you provide a credible link between the two except for those people who link them solely for the purpose of picking on the geeks wearing these fedoras &#8211; who are, tautologically, not unbiased sources.<br />
We could as well say that they&#8217;re wearing the hats because it was an era when a man could take a tommy gun and shoot all who cross them. Or an era when (practically) every guy was a former soldier (we -are- talking interwar period here). Or, more closely related to the theme, because they wish for a time when male fashion was so strict and uniform that all men wore very similar clothing at most times, because it would provide a form of brotherhood. Or maybe a time when notorious criminals could walk the streets, live in luxury and style, and still maintain some sort of code of honour. Or twenty thousand other things.<br />
If anything, &#8216;when a doll was just a doll&#8217; is one of the worst possibilities available: the Roaring Twenties started with women&#8217;s right to vote and included some of the greatest progress in male and female equality. A doll was -not- just a doll in the era of fedoras.</p>
<p>Finally, let&#8217;s take a look at your complaints about the idea of the &#8216;friend zone&#8217;. If you think being a geek, fedora-wearing or otherwise, makes people any more or less subject to the phenomenon, I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;ll have to prove you wrong. With that greatest of all things, SCIENCE, I can illustrate that it is a general phenomenon among men, without making a qualitative judgement:<br />
<a href="http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/12452915-423/sexual-tension-simmers-in-many-male-female-friendships.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/12452915-423/sexual-tension-simmers-in-many-male-female-friendships.html</a></p>
<p>So to sum up:<br />
1. Your point could have been made by a stereotypical villain.<br />
2. You provide no credible connection between fedoras and any attitude towards women.<br />
3. Your suggested reasons for wearing a fedora are factually disprovable, with many better alternatives available.<br />
4. The attitudes you try to shove into the hands of this arbitrary group of people are, in fact, very broad and general.</p>
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		<title>By: dr_awkward</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547923</link>
		<dc:creator>dr_awkward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547923</guid>
		<description>It wasn&#039;t that witty, and was quite mean-spirited against those of us who do wear fedoras/homburgs/whatever they hell they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#8217;t that witty, and was quite mean-spirited against those of us who do wear fedoras/homburgs/whatever they hell they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Dlo Burns</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547890</link>
		<dc:creator>Dlo Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547890</guid>
		<description>and a nice cane, but if you need a medical cane get a spare one and take it to a auto body shop to have them paint it gloss black (or DIY).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and a nice cane, but if you need a medical cane get a spare one and take it to a auto body shop to have them paint it gloss black (or DIY).</p>
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		<title>By: markfrei</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547881</link>
		<dc:creator>markfrei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547881</guid>
		<description>I prefer to take Glenn O&#039;Brien&#039;s advice on these matters over Boing Boing&#039;s.  Grown up men can and should wear well made, grown up clothes. 

That some young dudes look like they are playing bad dress up games in ill chosen and ill fitting attire doesn&#039;t take anything away from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer to take Glenn O&#8217;Brien&#8217;s advice on these matters over Boing Boing&#8217;s.  Grown up men can and should wear well made, grown up clothes. </p>
<p>That some young dudes look like they are playing bad dress up games in ill chosen and ill fitting attire doesn&#8217;t take anything away from that.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Lord</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547847</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Lord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547847</guid>
		<description>You mean Mentos &amp; Diet Coke wasn&#039;t a really a metaphor for horrible relationship choices?  You know, the one where you have fantastic chemistry, but always blow up in the end?  I feel so disappointed. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean Mentos &amp; Diet Coke wasn&#8217;t a really a metaphor for horrible relationship choices?  You know, the one where you have fantastic chemistry, but always blow up in the end?  I feel so disappointed. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: manybellsdown</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547839</link>
		<dc:creator>manybellsdown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547839</guid>
		<description>Fedora-wearing guy #2 in the article is particularly cute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fedora-wearing guy #2 in the article is particularly cute.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Amanda Lord</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547837</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Lord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547837</guid>
		<description>Hey, my brother is FTM &amp; I&#039;ve had a few other friends &amp; friends of friends who&#039;ve transitioned one way or the other or are genderfluid.  And I think you raise a point that&#039;s not often considered.  My brother wears ties and button-down shirts more often than most men I know.  He also loves hats (from baseball caps to tweed flat caps to... whatever).  He happens to make both look good, in my opinion.

We&#039;ve reached the point in society where our everyday wear for women is gender-neutral OR fem. I can (as a cis-het-woman) wear skirts or jeans and a tee-shirt without anyone batting an eye.  (If they do, it&#039;s because I&#039;m a &quot;fashion disaster&quot; not because &quot;women don&#039;t wear that.&quot;)  Traditionally women&#039;s clothing has not become gender-neutral for the most part.  And most average menswear doesn&#039;t strive to be fashion, until you get to more formal stuff.  And we live in a world where cleanly passing as male or female is still very important.  As a cis-woman, I can get away with wearing something that comes off as &quot;neutral,&quot; as long as I still read as female.  A man wearing something fem, would get harassed for it.  Seeming like you&#039;re trying to pass (and not succeeding) can get you harassed or killed.  

So for a (cis or trans) man (or genderfluid individual) to create fashion identity that is distinctly masculine, it&#039;s natural to reach for the few things that are still associated with masculinity, either because they&#039;ve fallen out of general fashion (hats) or because they&#039;re still associated that way (suits and ties).  Or, in the case of a cis-male friend with really odd taste -- straw fedora &amp; hawaiian shirts.  And there are a myriad of reasons to want to do so. 

We treat fashion like it&#039;s a &quot;women&#039;s&quot; thing.  Or women and gay men.  Because it&#039;s okay for gay men to be a little fem.  But all of this bashing of the fedora bothers me in part because of these gender issues.  Even as a fedora is a male fashion, because it&#039;s no longer standard fashion, it falls under an individual choosing an interest in style/fashion.  And somehow straight men &quot;aren&#039;t supposed to&quot; be interested in that.  If they want to look good, they&#039;re supposed to ask their girlfriend or wife or female friend to help, because clearly men &quot;can&#039;t&quot; do such a thing on their own.  And I have no problem with men who aren&#039;t interested in style and fashion.  Just as I have no problem with women who have no interest in it.  (Day-to-day, I&#039;m usually one of them.  Until I feel like &quot;presenting&quot; in a particular way.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, my brother is FTM &amp; I&#8217;ve had a few other friends &amp; friends of friends who&#8217;ve transitioned one way or the other or are genderfluid.  And I think you raise a point that&#8217;s not often considered.  My brother wears ties and button-down shirts more often than most men I know.  He also loves hats (from baseball caps to tweed flat caps to&#8230; whatever).  He happens to make both look good, in my opinion.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve reached the point in society where our everyday wear for women is gender-neutral OR fem. I can (as a cis-het-woman) wear skirts or jeans and a tee-shirt without anyone batting an eye.  (If they do, it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m a &#8220;fashion disaster&#8221; not because &#8220;women don&#8217;t wear that.&#8221;)  Traditionally women&#8217;s clothing has not become gender-neutral for the most part.  And most average menswear doesn&#8217;t strive to be fashion, until you get to more formal stuff.  And we live in a world where cleanly passing as male or female is still very important.  As a cis-woman, I can get away with wearing something that comes off as &#8220;neutral,&#8221; as long as I still read as female.  A man wearing something fem, would get harassed for it.  Seeming like you&#8217;re trying to pass (and not succeeding) can get you harassed or killed.  </p>
<p>So for a (cis or trans) man (or genderfluid individual) to create fashion identity that is distinctly masculine, it&#8217;s natural to reach for the few things that are still associated with masculinity, either because they&#8217;ve fallen out of general fashion (hats) or because they&#8217;re still associated that way (suits and ties).  Or, in the case of a cis-male friend with really odd taste &#8212; straw fedora &amp; hawaiian shirts.  And there are a myriad of reasons to want to do so. </p>
<p>We treat fashion like it&#8217;s a &#8220;women&#8217;s&#8221; thing.  Or women and gay men.  Because it&#8217;s okay for gay men to be a little fem.  But all of this bashing of the fedora bothers me in part because of these gender issues.  Even as a fedora is a male fashion, because it&#8217;s no longer standard fashion, it falls under an individual choosing an interest in style/fashion.  And somehow straight men &#8220;aren&#8217;t supposed to&#8221; be interested in that.  If they want to look good, they&#8217;re supposed to ask their girlfriend or wife or female friend to help, because clearly men &#8220;can&#8217;t&#8221; do such a thing on their own.  And I have no problem with men who aren&#8217;t interested in style and fashion.  Just as I have no problem with women who have no interest in it.  (Day-to-day, I&#8217;m usually one of them.  Until I feel like &#8220;presenting&#8221; in a particular way.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Dole's Commie Doppelganger</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547814</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Dole's Commie Doppelganger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547814</guid>
		<description> Ooh, moderator-zoned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Ooh, moderator-zoned.</p>
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		<title>By: donovan acree</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/02/why-the-fedora-grosses-out-gee.html#comment-1547805</link>
		<dc:creator>donovan acree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=184365#comment-1547805</guid>
		<description>20 years with the same hat (pushfront porkpie fedora). I think I&#039;ll ignore this noise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>20 years with the same hat (pushfront porkpie fedora). I think I&#8217;ll ignore this noise.</p>
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