Comments on: Nina Paley's history of the Holy Land: "This Land Is Mine" http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 14:35:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Michael Himbury http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1550372 Michael Himbury Sat, 06 Oct 2012 08:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1550372 Apart from an excellent visual historical record of the various occupations of Canin, Judea, Palestine, Israel, "Happy Valley" or whatever the real estate agent in the sky wants to call it, this clip is a reminder of what a great piece of music the Theme form Exodus by Ernest Gold is, what a wonderful voice the recently departed Andy Williams had and how cringe worthy Pat Boon could be. Those lyrics are a fine example of libretto as musical desecration. And I thought his version of Tutty-Futti was bad enough. Apart from an excellent visual historical record of the various occupations of Canin, Judea, Palestine, Israel, “Happy Valley” or whatever the real estate agent in the sky wants to call it, this clip is a reminder of what a great piece of music the Theme form Exodus by Ernest Gold is, what a wonderful voice the recently departed Andy Williams had and how cringe worthy Pat Boon could be. Those lyrics are a fine example of libretto as musical desecration. And I thought his version of Tutty-Futti was bad enough.

]]> By: AlexG55 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1550192 AlexG55 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 23:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1550192 So now your argument is just "I hate British people"- that's the only reason I can think of for claiming that Spanish/Argentine colonisation of inhabited territory is valid while British colonisation of uninhabited territory is invalid. After all, the EXISTENCE of Argentina is "solely an artefact of colonialism". So now your argument is just “I hate British people”- that’s the only reason I can think of for claiming that Spanish/Argentine colonisation of inhabited territory is valid while British colonisation of uninhabited territory is invalid. After all, the EXISTENCE of Argentina is “solely an artefact of colonialism”.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1550026 Antinous / Moderator Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1550026 The desperation with which Brits will attempt to stuff the guts back into their eviscerated empire is sad, yet horrifying. The Malvinas are under UK rule solely as an artifact of colonialism. Colonialism is dead; people should stop trying to make out with its corpse. The desperation with which Brits will attempt to stuff the guts back into their eviscerated empire is sad, yet horrifying. The Malvinas are under UK rule solely as an artifact of colonialism. Colonialism is dead; people should stop trying to make out with its corpse.

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549897 Cowicide Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549897 Excellent video for that great song.  Thanks for pointing us to it, Kimmo. Excellent video for that great song.  Thanks for pointing us to it, Kimmo.

]]> By: Cowicide http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549868 Cowicide Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549868 "This Land Is Mine" sums up one of many reasons why I don't fight wars for corporatists..  If you <b>STILL</b> don't <i>fucking</i> get it, then watch this, please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWyhOKbqdEQ What are we fighting for?  Freedom?  That's a LIE. “This Land Is Mine” sums up one of many reasons why I don’t fight wars for corporatists..  If you STILL don’t fucking get it, then watch this, please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWyhOKbqdEQ

What are we fighting for?  Freedom?  That’s a LIE.

]]> By: GlyphGryph http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549712 GlyphGryph Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549712 "which one put a flag on the islands first?" You can't claim us. We live here! There's five hundred million of us! What do you mean "do we have a flag?" “which one put a flag on the islands first?”

You can’t claim us. We live here! There’s five hundred million of us! What do you mean “do we have a flag?”

]]> By: Kimmo http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549698 Kimmo Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549698 Yeah right, I didn't realise <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4" rel="nofollow">this</a> was her until just now. Yeah right, I didn’t realise this was her until just now.

]]> By: AlexG55 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549673 AlexG55 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549673  So you believe in a right to self-determination but not if your ancestors got there within historical memory? The Falklands never had an indigenous population, so they weren't stolen from anyone- unless you believe that the Fuegians, who never set foot on the Falklands and have now been largely exterminated by the Argentinians, have a claim... Also, "white people bad, brown people good", which seems to be a key part of your argument, is completely irrelevant here- the population of Argentina is *overwhelmingly* descended from white Spanish colonisers.  So you believe in a right to self-determination but not if your ancestors got there within historical memory?

The Falklands never had an indigenous population, so they weren’t stolen from anyone- unless you believe that the Fuegians, who never set foot on the Falklands and have now been largely exterminated by the Argentinians, have a claim…

Also, “white people bad, brown people good”, which seems to be a key part of your argument, is completely irrelevant here- the population of Argentina is *overwhelmingly* descended from white Spanish colonisers.

]]> By: cheesefondue http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549653 cheesefondue Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549653 At least ten times more holy than conventional fire! At least ten times more holy than conventional fire!

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549519 Antinous / Moderator Fri, 05 Oct 2012 04:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549519 Unclear. Irrelevant. Acts of colonialism by an imperial power deserve absolutely zero consideration. The people who live on the Malvinas are real-life anchor babies. They were settled there in order to establish a claim, just as empires have done across the globe and throughout history. Unclear. Irrelevant. Acts of colonialism by an imperial power deserve absolutely zero consideration. The people who live on the Malvinas are real-life anchor babies. They were settled there in order to establish a claim, just as empires have done across the globe and throughout history.

]]> By: Bruce Roth http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549499 Bruce Roth Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549499 If we don't learn the lessons of th epast, we are doomed to repeat it.  If you think that can't happen, you are clearly in denial.  If we don’t learn the lessons of th epast, we are doomed to repeat it.  If you think that can’t happen, you are clearly in denial. 

]]> By: Dave Jenkins http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549489 Dave Jenkins Fri, 05 Oct 2012 02:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549489 which one put a flag on the islands first? which one put a flag on the islands first?

]]> By: GlyphGryph http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549321 GlyphGryph Thu, 04 Oct 2012 22:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549321  I'm sorry, then, because if that's nothing but strawmen, I can't actually tell if you've got an argument at all. If I've been disagreeing with things that aren't your argument, it's because your argument is awfully hard to pin down here. Your only actual argument has been to the tune of "It's obvious" and then sprouting irrelevancies about how people should govern themselves (do you apply that to the Falkland islands or not? Because that still doesn't support Argentina gaining control of them). If anything, YOU'VE been the one strawmanning - I question your proximity justification with several territories and question whether they to should go to their closest neighbor - and you argue we shouldn't control. That's got nothing to to with the bloody question, but your desire they should control themselves stands in sharp contrast to your initial claim that proximity alone was a enough to justify claim. I will quote you here: "Look at a globe." This was your ONLY argument thus far as to why Argentina should control the Falklands. This is obviously a worthless conversation - until and unless you decide to either say what you mean, or provide an actual coherent and consistent rational for your decisions, it's not really worth discussing further.  I’m sorry, then, because if that’s nothing but strawmen, I can’t actually tell if you’ve got an argument at all. If I’ve been disagreeing with things that aren’t your argument, it’s because your argument is awfully hard to pin down here.

Your only actual argument has been to the tune of “It’s obvious” and then sprouting irrelevancies about how people should govern themselves (do you apply that to the Falkland islands or not? Because that still doesn’t support Argentina gaining control of them). If anything, YOU’VE been the one strawmanning – I question your proximity justification with several territories and question whether they to should go to their closest neighbor – and you argue we shouldn’t control. That’s got nothing to to with the bloody question, but your desire they should control themselves stands in sharp contrast to your initial claim that proximity alone was a enough to justify claim. I will quote you here:
“Look at a globe.”

This was your ONLY argument thus far as to why Argentina should control the Falklands.

This is obviously a worthless conversation – until and unless you decide to either say what you mean, or provide an actual coherent and consistent rational for your decisions, it’s not really worth discussing further.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549297 Antinous / Moderator Thu, 04 Oct 2012 22:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549297 Your argument is a pile of straw men. Your argument is a pile of straw men.

]]> By: GlyphGryph http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549227 GlyphGryph Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549227 So you'll give these places "freedom", whether they want it or not? (And they don't, since the system we have doesn't make it difficult if they want to nowadays) Do you also support forcing independence on other places the US owns, like Hawaii and Alaska? And you method of forcing this freedom on the Falkland Isles is... by making them a colony of Argentina, who only wants them to exploit their resources. I'm not sure I'm following the logic here. So you’ll give these places “freedom”, whether they want it or not? (And they don’t, since the system we have doesn’t make it difficult if they want to nowadays) Do you also support forcing independence on other places the US owns, like Hawaii and Alaska?

And you method of forcing this freedom on the Falkland Isles is… by making them a colony of Argentina, who only wants them to exploit their resources.

I’m not sure I’m following the logic here.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549210 Antinous / Moderator Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549210 <blockquote>So who do you think they should belong to?</blockquote>Themselves. They're colonies. We OWN them. It's a vile leftover of an Imperialist past in which White people owned the nations that rightfully belonged to people of color.

So who do you think they should belong to?

Themselves. They’re colonies. We OWN them. It’s a vile leftover of an Imperialist past in which White people owned the nations that rightfully belonged to people of color.

]]> By: JoshP http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549180 JoshP Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549180   Ya know?  That is almost always how I'd imagine it.  I was even trying to guess the next costume. Achean, Egytian, Hyksos, Canaanite... the Maccabee was excellent.     Ya know?  That is almost always how I’d imagine it.  I was even trying to guess the next costume. Achean, Egytian, Hyksos, Canaanite… the Maccabee was excellent.  

]]> By: John Napsterista http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549182 John Napsterista Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549182 If the modern day claimants can’t figure out how to play nice with each other, I say we just give it back to Baʿal already. If the modern day claimants can’t figure out how to play nice with each other, I say we just give it back to Baʿal already.

]]> By: Ian Wood http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549169 Ian Wood Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549169 And hey! Nuclear winter will counteract global warming. See? God's plan. Eeeeverything's gonna be OK. And hey! Nuclear winter will counteract global warming.

See? God’s plan. Eeeeverything’s gonna be OK.

]]> By: Mantissa128 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549165 Mantissa128 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549165 I love Nina. For those who don't know, infringement issues nearly killed Sita Sings the Blues. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTyWS-tuoWk" rel="nofollow">Here's why she wants you to copy her work.</a> I love Nina. For those who don’t know, infringement issues nearly killed Sita Sings the Blues. Here’s why she wants you to copy her work.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549159 Antinous / Moderator Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549159 And yet, people who suggest it seem to have the fantasy that the phenomenon wouldn't spread. And yet, people who suggest it seem to have the fantasy that the phenomenon wouldn’t spread.

]]> By: GlyphGryph http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549138 GlyphGryph Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549138  Yeah, sorry, I'm not really buying it. If there was a "Greek Island" that hadn't been party of Greece in recent history, and contained solely American citizens who would have no desire to be a part of Greece, I don't see how on earth Greece would have a claim over them. Even if they DID have a problem with being ruled by the US, I /still/ don't see a claim for Greece being allowed to absorb them against their will just because the island is nearby. "And Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. should NOT belong to the US." So who do you think they should belong to?  Yeah, sorry, I’m not really buying it. If there was a “Greek Island” that hadn’t been party of Greece in recent history, and contained solely American citizens who would have no desire to be a part of Greece, I don’t see how on earth Greece would have a claim over them. Even if they DID have a problem with being ruled by the US, I /still/ don’t see a claim for Greece being allowed to absorb them against their will just because the island is nearby.

“And Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. should NOT belong to the US.”
So who do you think they should belong to?

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549119 Antinous / Moderator Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549119 Absurd argument. The UK retaining the Falklands is as if the US were retaining one of the Greek islands so that we could claim a quarter of the Mediterranean as our territory. And Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. should NOT belong to the US. Absurd argument. The UK retaining the Falklands is as if the US were retaining one of the Greek islands so that we could claim a quarter of the Mediterranean as our territory.

And Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. should NOT belong to the US.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549098 Antinous / Moderator Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549098 Ridiculous. Scotland, Norway, England and France are all in the same area. The Malvinas are 8,000 miles from London. As to Scotland "belonging" to Norway, Scotland is an actual nation. The Malvinas are a little outpost which exists solely to make a territorial claim. The UK's position is a disgraceful remnant of its colonial past. Ridiculous. Scotland, Norway, England and France are all in the same area. The Malvinas are 8,000 miles from London. As to Scotland “belonging” to Norway, Scotland is an actual nation. The Malvinas are a little outpost which exists solely to make a territorial claim. The UK’s position is a disgraceful remnant of its colonial past.

]]> By: Dan Hibiki http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549008 Dan Hibiki Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549008  Also Hasids tend to avoid any fighting and just leave it to the other Jews.  Also Hasids tend to avoid any fighting and just leave it to the other Jews.

]]> By: Dan Hibiki http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1549003 Dan Hibiki Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1549003  And the Japanese wanted to create a refuge for Jews and the idea was similarly thrown out due to it's obviously transparent conflict of interests.  And the Japanese wanted to create a refuge for Jews and the idea was similarly thrown out due to it’s obviously transparent conflict of interests.

]]> By: jennybean42 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1548966 jennybean42 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1548966 In Sherri Tepper's book "the Fresco" the aliens make those square miles of land disappear and won't bring them back until things get settled. And all the conservative preachers get pregnant with alien babies.  For some reason, this made me think of that. In Sherri Tepper’s book “the Fresco” the aliens make those square miles of land disappear and won’t bring them back until things get settled. And all the conservative preachers get pregnant with alien babies.  For some reason, this made me think of that.

]]> By: J. Brad Hicks http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1548965 J. Brad Hicks Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1548965 Don't be silly. Everybody knows that the ancient and historical homeland of the Jews is Brooklyn. Don’t be silly. Everybody knows that the ancient and historical homeland of the Jews is Brooklyn.

]]> By: J. Brad Hicks http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1548959 J. Brad Hicks Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1548959 Such as? Such as?

]]> By: Kimmo http://boingboing.net/2012/10/03/nina-paleys-history-of-the-h.html#comment-1548948 Kimmo Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185257#comment-1548948  It's CC-licensed, too! https://isohunt.com/torrent_details/69113985/.UG3GCq4yojo  It’s CC-licensed, too!

https://isohunt.com/torrent_details/69113985/.UG3GCq4yojo

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