Comments on: Brazil to roll out national radio-chip ID/surveillance/logging for all vehicles http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 21 May 2013 03:01:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: duncancreamer http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1552504 duncancreamer Tue, 09 Oct 2012 21:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1552504 Sounds like OnStar has finally grown up into the evil big brother I always knew it could be. Sounds like OnStar has finally grown up into the evil big brother I always knew it could be.

]]> By: duncancreamer http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1552477 duncancreamer Tue, 09 Oct 2012 21:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1552477 They do in America. Of course, they get "gifts, food, trips, and free samples" too. http://boingboing.net/2012/10/08/its-time-for-psychiatrists-t.html They do in America. Of course, they get “gifts, food, trips, and free samples” too.
http://boingboing.net/2012/10/08/its-time-for-psychiatrists-t.html

]]> By: Davi Lopes Ramos http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1552070 Davi Lopes Ramos Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1552070 About the paranoia: any regular Brazilian, like me, knows that our government is not that clever, neither have the organization or the resources to pull up any massive surveillance operation. So, I guess we are protected by our own incompetency. Our version of the CIA is small, stupid and always on strike. Our FBI is competent, but has others things to do... so, I really don't mind if the government wants to put a chip on my car. Specially if it helps locating me if I'm kidnapped or something! About the paranoia: any regular Brazilian, like me, knows that our government is not that clever, neither have the organization or the resources to pull up any massive surveillance operation. So, I guess we are protected by our own incompetency. Our version of the CIA is small, stupid and always on strike. Our FBI is competent, but has others things to do… so, I really don’t mind if the government wants to put a chip on my car. Specially if it helps locating me if I’m kidnapped or something!

]]> By: invictus http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550960 invictus Mon, 08 Oct 2012 02:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550960 @boingboing-78e54f68143ff325ed05244eb2cd0172:disqus  This comment thread called, it would like you to revisit it and pay attention this time. It's really not as hard as you make it out to be. @boingboing-78e54f68143ff325ed05244eb2cd0172:disqus 
This comment thread called, it would like you to revisit it and pay attention this time. It’s really not as hard as you make it out to be.

]]> By: dragonfrog http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550950 dragonfrog Mon, 08 Oct 2012 01:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550950  Normally, when people propose using individual point-to-point vehicle tracking to generate speeding tickets, it seems Orwellian.  In the context of Brazil, I can kind of see your point - anything to calm down Brazilian drivers...  Normally, when people propose using individual point-to-point vehicle tracking to generate speeding tickets, it seems Orwellian.  In the context of Brazil, I can kind of see your point – anything to calm down Brazilian drivers…

]]> By: B E Pratt http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550899 B E Pratt Mon, 08 Oct 2012 00:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550899  To answer you last question, almost certainly 'yes'. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American public [yes, I'm paraphrasing].  To answer you last question, almost certainly ‘yes’. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American public [yes, I'm paraphrasing].

]]> By: Robert http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550894 Robert Mon, 08 Oct 2012 00:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550894 Don't forget Matt Brauenbatter, who is eater-in-teeth for Cake: magazine. Don’t forget Matt Brauenbatter, who is eater-in-teeth for Cake: magazine.

]]> By: Robert http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550889 Robert Mon, 08 Oct 2012 00:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550889 That reminds me of the time a few days ago I went to a Staples in Philadelphia to get some financial documents shredded. I was led to a counter where the helpful employee explained that my papers would be put in a locked garbage bin, owned by a contracted service, who would then shred my papers. I promptly grabbed my papers and ran like hell because of the cognitive dissonance. I want to be secure, so I want to shred my papers. But the secure service Staples offers is for someone else, out of your sight, to shred your papers for you. WTF?! Does anyone fall for that? That reminds me of the time a few days ago I went to a Staples in Philadelphia to get some financial documents shredded. I was led to a counter where the helpful employee explained that my papers would be put in a locked garbage bin, owned by a contracted service, who would then shred my papers.

I promptly grabbed my papers and ran like hell because of the cognitive dissonance. I want to be secure, so I want to shred my papers. But the secure service Staples offers is for someone else, out of your sight, to shred your papers for you. WTF?! Does anyone fall for that?

]]> By: Michael Krijnen http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550772 Michael Krijnen Sun, 07 Oct 2012 19:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550772 Who wants to make use of it "government - provided medical treatment and other government services like tax collection". What I see also is a huge lose of jobs for the 99% on top of the other aspects like voting. Who wants to make use of it “government – provided medical treatment and other government services like tax collection”. What I see also is a huge lose of jobs for the 99% on top of the other aspects like voting.

]]> By: fcalmari http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550759 fcalmari Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550759 As someone living in Brazil and working in the tech industry, I see this has two sides (as everything). First: Great idea. This will curb theft and speeding. Second: has an incredible potential for disaster. Who can garantee that the RFID tags can't be cloned? I believe that anyone can think of what can happen if YOUR RFID tag is cloned (instead of your car stolen) and the user of your RFID speeds around town, commits robery (or anything else) and your car shows up on the screens as the criminal? I see a hard time for someone to prove their innocence (specially because the courts will assume that thr RFID isn't clonable and you'll have a hard time to prove where your car was). And it'll be easy to do it... pass in front of your house or somewhere close enough to scan your car. Create the cloned RFID, swap the RFID from the bad guys car, let the car be scanned and recorded as coming from your house, go execute the robbery. After that go back to the point, change back the RFID tag and go calmly back to the hideout. Bingo, you're the criminal and the robber can go calmly back home and relax. Easier than stealing a car from somebody because no one will see the crook stealing the RFID info.  As someone living in Brazil and working in the tech industry, I see this has two sides (as everything). First: Great idea. This will curb theft and speeding. Second: has an incredible potential for disaster. Who can garantee that the RFID tags can’t be cloned? I believe that anyone can think of what can happen if YOUR RFID tag is cloned (instead of your car stolen) and the user of your RFID speeds around town, commits robery (or anything else) and your car shows up on the screens as the criminal? I see a hard time for someone to prove their innocence (specially because the courts will assume that thr RFID isn’t clonable and you’ll have a hard time to prove where your car was). And it’ll be easy to do it… pass in front of your house or somewhere close enough to scan your car. Create the cloned RFID, swap the RFID from the bad guys car, let the car be scanned and recorded as coming from your house, go execute the robbery. After that go back to the point, change back the RFID tag and go calmly back to the hideout. Bingo, you’re the criminal and the robber can go calmly back home and relax. Easier than stealing a car from somebody because no one will see the crook stealing the RFID info. 

]]> By: Andrew Sandrini Vaz http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550752 Andrew Sandrini Vaz Sun, 07 Oct 2012 17:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550752 ... seems as big brother in action to me. … seems as big brother in action to me.

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550718 That_Anonymous_Coward Sun, 07 Oct 2012 13:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550718 not as many as one would expect, just a small strip... not as many as one would expect, just a small strip…

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550717 That_Anonymous_Coward Sun, 07 Oct 2012 13:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550717 Infelizmente eu não acho que o Google Translate funciona bem o suficiente para criar um boletim informativo. Infelizmente eu não acho que o Google Translate funciona bem o suficiente para criar um boletim informativo.

]]> By: NelC http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550704 NelC Sun, 07 Oct 2012 09:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550704 Sim, é verdade, por que inventar a roda quando você pode roubar um pouco? Sim, é verdade, por que inventar a roda quando você pode roubar um pouco?

]]> By: andygates http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550702 andygates Sun, 07 Oct 2012 08:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550702 Well, it'll be an interesting experiment.  The UK, US, Europe and so on haven't the political will to push through something like this (they're using ANPR where they want to track) so Brazil can be our test-case for national tracking.  Does it allow fair road pricing?  Does it get abused?  We can now refer to the Brazil model instead of making it up.  Gives me the shivers, though.  Will this data be subpoenaed to give location information in trials?  In realtime?  ...and only by good guys?  We know the potential problems.  Be interesting to see if any benefits balance off. Well, it’ll be an interesting experiment.  The UK, US, Europe and so on haven’t the political will to push through something like this (they’re using ANPR where they want to track) so Brazil can be our test-case for national tracking.  Does it allow fair road pricing?  Does it get abused?  We can now refer to the Brazil model instead of making it up. 

Gives me the shivers, though.  Will this data be subpoenaed to give location information in trials?  In realtime?  …and only by good guys?  We know the potential problems.  Be interesting to see if any benefits balance off.

]]> By: andygates http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550701 andygates Sun, 07 Oct 2012 08:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550701  The 80s called, they want their paranoia back.  The 80s called, they want their paranoia back.

]]> By: SoItBegins http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550698 SoItBegins Sun, 07 Oct 2012 08:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550698  Wrong.  Wrong.

]]> By: D.Souto http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550697 D.Souto Sun, 07 Oct 2012 08:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550697 Well Brazil is such a "circus" that Boing-Boing should consider starting a section dedicate to publish F*cked up news from the Country. Well Brazil is such a “circus” that Boing-Boing should consider starting a section dedicate to publish F*cked up news from the Country.

]]> By: tubacat http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550693 tubacat Sun, 07 Oct 2012 06:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550693 Jeez - Brazil is turning into "Brazil" Jeez – Brazil is turning into “Brazil”

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550691 That_Anonymous_Coward Sun, 07 Oct 2012 06:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550691 Se alguém com um avatar sexy pode pensar nessas coisas em 5 minutos, imagine o que os verdadeiros criminosos pode fazer ... para não mencionar os ladrões. Se alguém com um avatar sexy pode pensar nessas coisas em 5 minutos, imagine o que os verdadeiros criminosos pode fazer … para não mencionar os ladrões.

]]> By: mjfgates http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550676 mjfgates Sun, 07 Oct 2012 04:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550676 When did identity theft become a Thing? Was that back when you could "just" pickpocket somebody, manually copy down all their numbers, and then quietly slide their wallet back into their pocket? No, it was not. When did identity theft become a Thing? Was that back when you could “just” pickpocket somebody, manually copy down all their numbers, and then quietly slide their wallet back into their pocket? No, it was not.

]]> By: smzyk http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550663 smzyk Sun, 07 Oct 2012 03:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550663 In America we already have police cars with cameras that automatically read license plates and send the numbers to the computer to check against a hot list. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/your-car-tracked-the-rapid-rise-of-license-plate-readers/ In America we already have police cars with cameras that automatically read license plates and send the numbers to the computer to check against a hot list.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/your-car-tracked-the-rapid-rise-of-license-plate-readers/

]]> By: Matt Briody http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550658 Matt Briody Sun, 07 Oct 2012 03:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550658 As a cyclist, and a citizen of a country where people generally don't fear their government, this looks like a good idea.  A really really good idea. Truly evil people can use systems far more primitive for nefarious ends. The magnitude of the problems created by car dependency are staggering. If the system could be made more efficient, then why not try.  There is often talk here about mandating a 'right to privacy' of the kind that would make, for instance, looking up an ex more specifically illegal. I mean, I think I get what you're all worried about, but I just feel bad that something that could be so useful is thought of as being so draconian. As a cyclist, and a citizen of a country where people generally don’t fear their government, this looks like a good idea. 

A really really good idea.

Truly evil people can use systems far more primitive for nefarious ends.

The magnitude of the problems created by car dependency are staggering. If the system could be made more efficient, then why not try. 
There is often talk here about mandating a ‘right to privacy’ of the kind that would make, for instance, looking up an ex more specifically illegal. I mean, I think I get what you’re all worried about, but I just feel bad that something that could be so useful is thought of as being so draconian.

]]> By: NelC http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550652 NelC Sun, 07 Oct 2012 02:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550652 I find your moneymaking ideas intriguing, and wish to subscribe to the Portuguese edition of your newsletter. I find your moneymaking ideas intriguing, and wish to subscribe to the Portuguese edition of your newsletter.

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550649 That_Anonymous_Coward Sun, 07 Oct 2012 01:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550649 Because we have unbreakable encryption... like on cell phone... er wait like on DVD's... er wait like on websites... er wait Depending on the range of these devices a thief could cover much more ground than before, build a timeline of when the car is in a more vulnerable location. Figure out which cars are used by people who move money or other things of value and know their whole route systems. All without having to be seen watching... Because we have unbreakable encryption…
like on cell phone… er wait
like on DVD’s… er wait
like on websites… er wait

Depending on the range of these devices a thief could cover much more ground than before, build a timeline of when the car is in a more vulnerable location.
Figure out which cars are used by people who move money or other things of value and know their whole route systems.
All without having to be seen watching…

]]> By: invictus http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550641 invictus Sun, 07 Oct 2012 01:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550641 Well, if you really want a serious response to that, then I find your assertion astonishingly naive. Oaths are not magical, unicorn-level constructs that prevent any and all behaviour you might deem unethical; both because Brazilian doctors are under no obligation to match your view on what is ethical, and because large groups of people can be convinced of any number of things -- and this one isn't even that much of a stretch.  The physical implantation needn't even be done for the stated purposes of tracking. Instead, it's intended to integrate into a national database of medical information, so that if you're in an accident or are unconscious, the physicians can correctly pull up your medical history and allergies. It's also the one guaranteed authentication method you will be able to use when accessing other government services, from driver's license issuance to unemployment office registration. Or are you assuming this will be done without the patients' consent and knowledge? There's no need for that, either. The Brazilian parliament will pass a law requiring the presence of the ID chip in all patients who want to make use of government-provided medical treatment. Government might not administer the services, but it sure as hell pays for them, legislates them, and regulates them. Well, if you really want a serious response to that, then I find your assertion astonishingly naive.
Oaths are not magical, unicorn-level constructs that prevent any and all behaviour you might deem unethical; both because Brazilian doctors are under no obligation to match your view on what is ethical, and because large groups of people can be convinced of any number of things — and this one isn’t even that much of a stretch. 

The physical implantation needn’t even be done for the stated purposes of tracking. Instead, it’s intended to integrate into a national database of medical information, so that if you’re in an accident or are unconscious, the physicians can correctly pull up your medical history and allergies. It’s also the one guaranteed authentication method you will be able to use when accessing other government services, from driver’s license issuance to unemployment office registration.

Or are you assuming this will be done without the patients’ consent and knowledge? There’s no need for that, either. The Brazilian parliament will pass a law requiring the presence of the ID chip in all patients who want to make use of government-provided medical treatment. Government might not administer the services, but it sure as hell pays for them, legislates them, and regulates them.

]]> By: Stephen Schenck http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550639 Stephen Schenck Sun, 07 Oct 2012 01:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550639 So what happens if you use a fold-out sun shade? I can't quite picture it, but wouldn't one of those block the VIN when deployed in a typical fashion? So what happens if you use a fold-out sun shade? I can’t quite picture it, but wouldn’t one of those block the VIN when deployed in a typical fashion?

]]> By: MarkV http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550636 MarkV Sun, 07 Oct 2012 01:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550636 "How would you deal with someone setting up their own antenna and looking for expensive cars as a shopping list for theft?" It seems like it would be overkill to set up an antenna and crack the encryption when they could just use their eyes like car thieves have been doing since cars were invented. “How would you deal with someone setting up their own antenna and looking for expensive cars as a shopping list for theft?”
It seems like it would be overkill to set up an antenna and crack the encryption when they could just use their eyes like car thieves have been doing since cars were invented.

]]> By: MarkV http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550635 MarkV Sun, 07 Oct 2012 00:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550635 Obviously, the chipping part was sarcasm. The I quoted doesn't read that way. Obviously, the chipping part was sarcasm. The I quoted doesn’t read that way.

]]> By: invictus http://boingboing.net/2012/10/06/brazil-to-roll-out-national-ra.html#comment-1550629 invictus Sun, 07 Oct 2012 00:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185604#comment-1550629 Please re-tune your sarcasm detectors to at least deci-Swift sensitivity levels. Please re-tune your sarcasm detectors to at least deci-Swift sensitivity levels.

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