Comments on: Rumble in the Air-Conditioned Auditorium: Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly's debate kicked ass http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 18 May 2013 12:48:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Ray C http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1552956 Ray C Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1552956 To the .torrents! To the .torrents!

]]> By: SamSam http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1552049 SamSam Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1552049 Well, it's actually because it's an actual copyright violation, not just mistakenly flagged by some copybot a la Microsoft (which is what I assume you're referring to with the "timely" comment). They actually would rather prefer you pay to see the content, and apparently it goes towards charity... Well, it’s actually because it’s an actual copyright violation, not just mistakenly flagged by some copybot a la Microsoft (which is what I assume you’re referring to with the “timely” comment).

They actually would rather prefer you pay to see the content, and apparently it goes towards charity…

]]> By: Kimmo http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551987 Kimmo Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551987 It just froze on me 64 minutes in... Spewing pretty hard over that shit, dammit It just froze on me 64 minutes in…

Spewing pretty hard over that shit, dammit

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551572 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551572 I think the difference in the UK is that you don't 'have' to pay for it, therefore those that charge for it have to actually provide a good service else people wouldn't bother - there's genuine competition. I know it's not tit-for-tat, but the national average for National Insurance contributions works out at around £300p/m (for men), the difference of course is that number decreases along with income - and that's a pretty important factor. I think the difference in the UK is that you don’t ‘have’ to pay for it, therefore those that charge for it have to actually provide a good service else people wouldn’t bother – there’s genuine competition.

I know it’s not tit-for-tat, but the national average for National Insurance contributions works out at around £300p/m (for men), the difference of course is that number decreases along with income – and that’s a pretty important factor.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551505 Antinous / Moderator Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551505 All of that happens regularly to people in the US who pay dearly for insurance. I pay $596 per month plus co-pays. Been told that a routine doctor visit may take up to two months. Specialist consultations are at least a month and often two. Eight or more hours to be seen in the ER, and no doctor until they get the credit card number. Patients spend days in the ER or recovery room because all the beds are full. We get the same uneven quality of care that you do and pay much more for it. All of that happens regularly to people in the US who pay dearly for insurance. I pay $596 per month plus co-pays. Been told that a routine doctor visit may take up to two months. Specialist consultations are at least a month and often two. Eight or more hours to be seen in the ER, and no doctor until they get the credit card number. Patients spend days in the ER or recovery room because all the beds are full.

We get the same uneven quality of care that you do and pay much more for it.

]]> By: andygates http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551466 andygates Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551466 Aww. This video is unavailable due to some copybot.  Talk about timely. Aww. This video is unavailable due to some copybot.  Talk about timely.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551430 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551430 Well I'm only speaking from experience, and it was appropriate given the context of the comment I was replying too. Well I’m only speaking from experience, and it was appropriate given the context of the comment I was replying too.

]]> By: EH http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551411 EH Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551411 Why does the UK have to be the model for comparison? What about Venezuela? Why does the UK have to be the model for comparison? What about Venezuela?

]]> By: EH http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551406 EH Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551406 I like "Bush the Spoiler" because his ascending to the Presidency has removed Jeb, the Bush son who was <i>supposed</i> to be President, from ever running. I suppose we still might see if that Etch-A-Sketch is capable of being shaken, but even Bush Sr. seems to realize this state of affairs. I like “Bush the Spoiler” because his ascending to the Presidency has removed Jeb, the Bush son who was supposed to be President, from ever running. I suppose we still might see if that Etch-A-Sketch is capable of being shaken, but even Bush Sr. seems to realize this state of affairs.

]]> By: EH http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551403 EH Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551403 A person who doesn't like numbers is not going to become an accountant. They don't want to learn the lessons being taught here. A person who doesn’t like numbers is not going to become an accountant. They don’t want to learn the lessons being taught here.

]]> By: joelogs http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551242 joelogs Mon, 08 Oct 2012 16:02:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551242 I have it on good authority that the same "guy who works at fox news who lived in canada for a bit" also said that they don't understand sarcasm or satire up there. I have it on good authority that the same “guy who works at fox news who lived in canada for a bit” also said that they don’t understand sarcasm or satire up there.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551243 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 16:02:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551243 Well that's what has become my point. I'd much rather the NHS than nothing at all - that's just not what I was getting at. But it's worth remembering that as a tax payer i directly contribute to it, and I dont really feel the government is investing my money wisely. Well that’s what has become my point. I’d much rather the NHS than nothing at all – that’s just not what I was getting at. But it’s worth remembering that as a tax payer i directly contribute to it, and I dont really feel the government is investing my money wisely.

]]> By: Joshua Bardwell http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551236 Joshua Bardwell Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551236 Private healthcare in the UK may be thriving, but it is not thriving on payments from the huge numbers of people who, without the NHS, would go totally uninsured. Would you rather have the NHS, or nothing at all? The latter is the only choice that many, many Americans have. Private healthcare in the UK may be thriving, but it is not thriving on payments from the huge numbers of people who, without the NHS, would go totally uninsured. Would you rather have the NHS, or nothing at all? The latter is the only choice that many, many Americans have.

]]> By: Josh Centers http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551222 Josh Centers Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551222 Thanks LB. I just watched it on Youtube yesterday. I could probably download it from the site now, but I'm not going to burn any more of my Comcast bandwidth cap on it. Thanks LB. I just watched it on Youtube yesterday. I could probably download it from the site now, but I’m not going to burn any more of my Comcast bandwidth cap on it.

]]> By: Bobsyeruncle http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551217 Bobsyeruncle Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551217 What is true is that some treatments are not covered by the provincial government health plan.  It usually boils down to cost and proven effectiveness.  The Canadian government feels double-billing would undermine the healthcare system, so if the treatment isn't covered by the plan, it won't be performed in Canada. You do get Canadians with rare forms of cancer flying south for expensive, experimental treatment.  What's not true is that the Canadian health care system is bad and that going elsewhere to get fixed up happens all of the time. As you said, that was a distortion. What is true is that some treatments are not covered by the provincial government health plan.  It usually boils down to cost and proven effectiveness.  The Canadian government feels double-billing would undermine the healthcare system, so if the treatment isn’t covered by the plan, it won’t be performed in Canada. You do get Canadians with rare forms of cancer flying south for expensive, experimental treatment.  What’s not true is that the Canadian health care system is bad and that going elsewhere to get fixed up happens all of the time. As you said, that was a distortion.

]]> By: austinhamman http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551212 austinhamman Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551212  "bush the younger" just seems like an insult to Pliny the younger, least thats who i think of when i hear "the younger"  ”bush the younger” just seems like an insult to Pliny the younger, least thats who i think of when i hear “the younger”

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551210 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551210 I think my comment is being read with slightly the wrong context, which is probably my own fault. All I was really saying was that the NHS isn't some awesome thing to behold and worship from afar, there are more efective social healthcare systems in Europe to treat as benchmarks. But yes, I'm grateful for having something rather than nothing. I think my comment is being read with slightly the wrong context, which is probably my own fault.

All I was really saying was that the NHS isn’t some awesome thing to behold and worship from afar, there are more efective social healthcare systems in Europe to treat as benchmarks. But yes, I’m grateful for having something rather than nothing.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551203 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551203 Apologies, I didn't mean to insinuate it was as bad as the US system. My experience with the NHS is bad. Really, that's all I can go on other than spun statistics from the government. The hospitals are over burdened, understaffed and under funded. I was lucky enough to have an insurance company pay for some out-patient care and it was INFINITELY better than that I received from the NHS. i.e. I was 'cared' for, rather than huddled into a bed. I was seen promptly, rather than having to go without food and live off a drip for 3 days while I waited for 'emergency' surgery. I wasn't even checked over properly when I was brought in from a serious road accident - I had to push for people to check me properly at which point they found further injury. I would never, ever, push for a US style system - but we shouldn't have to supplement the NHS with private healthcare, there should be no need for private healthcare in the UK, but there is (this, IMO is evidence in itself that the NHS isn't all that great - the private healthcare industry in the UK is thriving). You don't have to go that far to see it done properly, for what it's worth - it's not a problem with the concept of the NHS, but the execution and management. Just ask the nurses and doctors what they think of the NHS. Apologies, I didn’t mean to insinuate it was as bad as the US system.

My experience with the NHS is bad. Really, that’s all I can go on other than spun statistics from the government.

The hospitals are over burdened, understaffed and under funded. I was lucky enough to have an insurance company pay for some out-patient care and it was INFINITELY better than that I received from the NHS. i.e. I was ‘cared’ for, rather than huddled into a bed. I was seen promptly, rather than having to go without food and live off a drip for 3 days while I waited for ‘emergency’ surgery. I wasn’t even checked over properly when I was brought in from a serious road accident – I had to push for people to check me properly at which point they found further injury.

I would never, ever, push for a US style system – but we shouldn’t have to supplement the NHS with private healthcare, there should be no need for private healthcare in the UK, but there is (this, IMO is evidence in itself that the NHS isn’t all that great – the private healthcare industry in the UK is thriving). You don’t have to go that far to see it done properly, for what it’s worth – it’s not a problem with the concept of the NHS, but the execution and management. Just ask the nurses and doctors what they think of the NHS.

]]> By: Apocatequil Death http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551199 Apocatequil Death Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551199 It's fine to demand better services. But for millions of Americans there is no service until the sickness becomes so critical that there is no choice but to go to emergency. As you stated you couldn't live without the NHS so start your comment with that instead and explain why that is so. It’s fine to demand better services. But for millions of Americans there is no service until the sickness becomes so critical that there is no choice but to go to emergency. As you stated you couldn’t live without the NHS so start your comment with that instead and explain why that is so.

]]> By: scotchmi_st http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551190 scotchmi_st Mon, 08 Oct 2012 14:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551190 I don't know which NHS you've been using, but while the NHS has its problems, comparing it to the US system is, to quote Oreilly, /insane/. It only seems as proken as it is because we're in charge of it. Plus private healthcare have an incentive to make you feel cared for, which is not at all the same as making you better. I don’t know which NHS you’ve been using, but while the NHS has its problems, comparing it to the US system is, to quote Oreilly, /insane/. It only seems as proken as it is because we’re in charge of it. Plus private healthcare have an incentive to make you feel cared for, which is not at all the same as making you better.

]]> By: Melinda9 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551167 Melinda9 Mon, 08 Oct 2012 14:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551167 The only moment I enjoyed was when the audience member asked about foreign aid and O'Reilly ended by saying that it was a 'very small' amount (can't remember the amount but think it is $50 billion) and Jon Stewart said 'but NPR - that's a problem.' I'm assuming that the whole NPR thing was serious and not a joke on BO'Reilly's part. Because if there are approx 234 million people 18+ in the US and half of them pay federal income tax, that works out to a little over a dollar per person for NPR/PBS. If the debate was meant to be entertainment, I didn't find it very entertaining, but I guess it made money for 'charity'. The only moment I enjoyed was when the audience member asked about foreign aid and O’Reilly ended by saying that it was a ‘very small’ amount (can’t remember the amount but think it is $50 billion) and Jon Stewart said ‘but NPR – that’s a problem.’ I’m assuming that the whole NPR thing was serious and not a joke on BO’Reilly’s part. Because if there are approx 234 million people 18+ in the US and half of them pay federal income tax, that works out to a little over a dollar per person for NPR/PBS.
If the debate was meant to be entertainment, I didn’t find it very entertaining, but I guess it made money for ‘charity’.

]]> By: strugglngwriter http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551129 strugglngwriter Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551129 I wasn't interested in watching this because of the times O'Reilly was on the Daily Show and John Stewart took it really easy on him. Did he take off the gloves this time? I wasn’t interested in watching this because of the times O’Reilly was on the Daily Show and John Stewart took it really easy on him. Did he take off the gloves this time?

]]> By: chris jimson http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551126 chris jimson Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551126 A government of the people, by the people, and for the people, should definitely be providing services for the people.   A government of the people, by the people, and for the people, should definitely be providing services for the people.  

]]> By: penguinchris http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551084 penguinchris Mon, 08 Oct 2012 09:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551084 I think Stewart's approach to a lot of it was to let O'Reilly's bullshit speak for itself, or to react in such a way that indicates that it's obviously bullshit. I mean, that is how he framed the whole thing from the beginning: he said O'Reilly is speaking from the Republican fantasy land of Bullshit Mountain.  Stewart didn't have to pander to anyone or go particularly hard on the offensive (except in a few cases) because hopefully most people who actually watch this understand that most of what O'Reilly said is bullshit. I don't know about anyone else, but I could scarcely believe that O'Reilly actually believed a lot of what he said - except in cases that went against the "standard" conservative view, of which there were several. And yeah, Stewart knows how to listen and understand opposing points of views, and O'Reilly (unsurprisingly) doesn't. You could see Stewart get quite frustrated at times because of this, but he chose his battles carefully. Very similar in that respect, at least, to the Obama/Romney debate - Obama and Stewart had to take special precautions to handle unhinged bullshit mongers (though I respect O'Reilly and his debating style <i>far</i> more than I do Romney). I think Stewart’s approach to a lot of it was to let O’Reilly’s bullshit speak for itself, or to react in such a way that indicates that it’s obviously bullshit. I mean, that is how he framed the whole thing from the beginning: he said O’Reilly is speaking from the Republican fantasy land of Bullshit Mountain. 

Stewart didn’t have to pander to anyone or go particularly hard on the offensive (except in a few cases) because hopefully most people who actually watch this understand that most of what O’Reilly said is bullshit. I don’t know about anyone else, but I could scarcely believe that O’Reilly actually believed a lot of what he said – except in cases that went against the “standard” conservative view, of which there were several.

And yeah, Stewart knows how to listen and understand opposing points of views, and O’Reilly (unsurprisingly) doesn’t. You could see Stewart get quite frustrated at times because of this, but he chose his battles carefully.

Very similar in that respect, at least, to the Obama/Romney debate – Obama and Stewart had to take special precautions to handle unhinged bullshit mongers (though I respect O’Reilly and his debating style far more than I do Romney).

]]> By: cdh1971 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551073 cdh1971 Mon, 08 Oct 2012 08:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551073 By the way, I have native sense of Gaydar, and aggressively homophobic apparent closet-cases such as him triggers yellow alert, and O'Reilly is as treacherous as anyone or thing. By the way, I have native sense of Gaydar, and aggressively homophobic apparent closet-cases such as him triggers yellow alert, and O’Reilly is as treacherous as anyone or thing.

]]> By: cdh1971 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551068 cdh1971 Mon, 08 Oct 2012 08:02:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551068 Jon Stewart: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit? Bill O'Reilly: I have sex with men.  But unlike nearly every other man of whom this is true, I bring the guy I'm screwing to the White House and President Reagan, Bush the Elder and the Junior smiled at us and shook his hand. Jon Stewart:  Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat? Bill O'Reilly: Not who I flck or who flcks me, but who will come to the phone when I call, who owes me favours   This is what a label refers to. Now to someone who does not understand this, a homosexual is what I am because I have sex with men, but really this is wrong. A homosexual is somebody who, in 15 years of trying cannot get a pissant anit-discrimination bill through the city council.  A homosexual is somebody who knows nobody and who nobody knows. Who has zero clout. Does this sound like me Jon? Jon Stewart: Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. Bill O'Reilly: I have all the time in the world. Bill O'Reilly's (satirical quotes...paraphrased from 'Angels in America', specifically the part where Roy Cohn is explaining why he is not a homosexual. Links, reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_in_America_(TV_miniseries) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318997/http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318997/ ) Jon Stewart: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit?

Bill O’Reilly: I have sex with men. 

But unlike nearly every other man of whom this is true, I bring the guy I’m screwing to the White House and President Reagan, Bush the Elder and the Junior smiled at us and shook his hand.

Jon Stewart:  Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat?

Bill O’Reilly: Not who I flck or who flcks me, but who will come to the phone when I call, who owes me favours  

This is what a label refers to. Now to someone who does not understand this, a homosexual is what I am because I have sex with men, but really this is wrong. A homosexual is somebody who, in 15 years of trying cannot get a pissant anit-discrimination bill through the city council. 

A homosexual is somebody who knows nobody and who nobody knows. Who has zero clout. Does this sound like me Jon?

Jon Stewart: Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Bill O’Reilly: I have all the time in the world.

Bill O’Reilly’s (satirical quotes…paraphrased from ‘Angels in America’, specifically the part where Roy Cohn is explaining why he is not a homosexual. Links, reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_in_America_(TV_miniseries)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318997/http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318997/
)

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551064 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 07:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551064 Half of that message doesn't make sense due to autocorrect - but disqus is so broken on iOS I can't even edit it. Humph. Half of that message doesn’t make sense due to autocorrect – but disqus is so broken on iOS I can’t even edit it. Humph.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551063 Nathan Hornby Mon, 08 Oct 2012 07:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551063 Well in the UK at least the service is quite poor. I mean not 3rd world poor, but if you have private healthcare here you get significantly better in-patient care. The NHS is one of those things we love to hate, we couldn't live without it, but its broken and a complete mess. It can be both. [Edited for reading comprehension] Well in the UK at least the service is quite poor. I mean not 3rd world poor, but if you have private healthcare here you get significantly better in-patient care.

The NHS is one of those things we love to hate, we couldn’t live without it, but its broken and a complete mess. It can be both.

[Edited for reading comprehension]

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551046 Antinous / Moderator Mon, 08 Oct 2012 06:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551046 I believe that the correct response is, "I know you are but what is it?" in your best Pee-wee voice. I believe that the correct response is, “I know you are but what is it?” in your best Pee-wee voice.

]]> By: ocker3 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/07/rumble-in-the-air-conditioned.html#comment-1551043 ocker3 Mon, 08 Oct 2012 06:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=185653#comment-1551043  At least he's willing to go on the show and engage with Stewart at some level, even if it wasn't an actual point v point logic debate. I'm no fan of Bill, but I begrudgingly give him that, he's willing to give it a go. Still, only one tick mark on a long list of Cons overall.  At least he’s willing to go on the show and engage with Stewart at some level, even if it wasn’t an actual point v point logic debate. I’m no fan of Bill, but I begrudgingly give him that, he’s willing to give it a go. Still, only one tick mark on a long list of Cons overall.

]]>