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	<title>Comments on: San Antonio students and parents upset at mandatory radio-tracking&#160;snitch-tags</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Ricardo Salinas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1556859</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo Salinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1556859</guid>
		<description>Why not just stapling bright yellow tags to the students&#039; ears,  just like you do your cattle? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not just stapling bright yellow tags to the students&#8217; ears,  just like you do your cattle? </p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554648</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554648</guid>
		<description>What I like about people being tagged is that they realize they are being treated like cattle - and when they manage to get rid of the tagging policy, a few of them will realize they still are being treated like cattle (though free-range cattle).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I like about people being tagged is that they realize they are being treated like cattle &#8211; and when they manage to get rid of the tagging policy, a few of them will realize they still are being treated like cattle (though free-range cattle).</p>
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		<title>By: hazmat</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554609</link>
		<dc:creator>hazmat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554609</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not Texas, that&#039;s some principals in Texas committing fraud breaking the law. But I can see the reasoning behind the fraud, which has its roots in NCLB. They tried to game a system that is weighted against them, and they lost.

My wife is a teacher in Texas and I see how messed up NCLB&#039;s premise of accountability (with no resources) is fundamentally flawed. For example, if a child is profoundly disabled (traumatic brain injury, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc.) the standards are *EXACTLY* the same when it comes to NCLB numbers and being labeled as a failing school.  Good enrollment and attendance numbers means you might be able to pay your teachers. If your population has a high number of special needs kids, know how much extra money you get? Exactly $0.00, though you are legally mandated (federal law) to provide services. You just hope that you have enough &#039;normal&#039; kids so you can afford to give everyone what they need to succeed. You can apply for grants, but without a consistent source of funds, you&#039;re not going to attract quality teachers- those that want to make teaching a career- not just a lark 2nd vocation. (Don&#039;t get me into &quot;Teach for America&quot;- just look at how many TFA teachers actually are still teaching just 2 years later). 

If you happen to be in school district with a good tax base, you are in good shape- if not, you&#039;re just screwed, no matter what they might try to level the field (AKA &quot;Robin Hood&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not Texas, that&#8217;s some principals in Texas committing fraud breaking the law. But I can see the reasoning behind the fraud, which has its roots in NCLB. They tried to game a system that is weighted against them, and they lost.</p>
<p>My wife is a teacher in Texas and I see how messed up NCLB&#8217;s premise of accountability (with no resources) is fundamentally flawed. For example, if a child is profoundly disabled (traumatic brain injury, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc.) the standards are *EXACTLY* the same when it comes to NCLB numbers and being labeled as a failing school.  Good enrollment and attendance numbers means you might be able to pay your teachers. If your population has a high number of special needs kids, know how much extra money you get? Exactly $0.00, though you are legally mandated (federal law) to provide services. You just hope that you have enough &#8216;normal&#8217; kids so you can afford to give everyone what they need to succeed. You can apply for grants, but without a consistent source of funds, you&#8217;re not going to attract quality teachers- those that want to make teaching a career- not just a lark 2nd vocation. (Don&#8217;t get me into &#8220;Teach for America&#8221;- just look at how many TFA teachers actually are still teaching just 2 years later). </p>
<p>If you happen to be in school district with a good tax base, you are in good shape- if not, you&#8217;re just screwed, no matter what they might try to level the field (AKA &#8220;Robin Hood&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: dragonfrog</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554605</link>
		<dc:creator>dragonfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554605</guid>
		<description>My understanding is it&#039;s a &#039;definitely maybe&#039; sort of thing - NFC uses only one of the two common RFID frequencies, for one thing.  The combination of receiver sensitivity and transmitter power in both directions would be another potential issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is it&#8217;s a &#8216;definitely maybe&#8217; sort of thing &#8211; NFC uses only one of the two common RFID frequencies, for one thing.  The combination of receiver sensitivity and transmitter power in both directions would be another potential issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554536</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554536</guid>
		<description>Texas has made an art form of school fraud.  In order to look good under No Child Left Behind, Texas school districts routinely listed drop-outs as transfers to another district.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/education/dropout-nation/how-private-schools-help-lower-texas-dropout-numbers/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Texas has made an art form of school fraud.  In order to look good under No Child Left Behind, Texas school districts routinely listed drop-outs as transfers to another district.<br />
<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/education/dropout-nation/how-private-schools-help-lower-texas-dropout-numbers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/education/dropout-nation/how-private-schools-help-lower-texas-dropout-numbers/</a></p>
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		<title>By: aikimoe</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554517</link>
		<dc:creator>aikimoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554517</guid>
		<description>Reflexively bashing charter schools is really no different than reflexively bashing public schools.  Just like public schools there are good and bad charter schools.  Just like public schools there are charter schools with happy kids and sad kids, competent and incompetent teachers, selfish and selfless administrators.  

There are charter schools that offer valued alternatives to middle and lower class families.  I know a few very liberal families that thank their lucky stars for their charter school.

Every school is different and should be judged on its own merits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reflexively bashing charter schools is really no different than reflexively bashing public schools.  Just like public schools there are good and bad charter schools.  Just like public schools there are charter schools with happy kids and sad kids, competent and incompetent teachers, selfish and selfless administrators.  </p>
<p>There are charter schools that offer valued alternatives to middle and lower class families.  I know a few very liberal families that thank their lucky stars for their charter school.</p>
<p>Every school is different and should be judged on its own merits.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554511</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554511</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That scenario would require an attacker who wants to kill students from a particular high school, which is a strange motive.&lt;/blockquote&gt;You don&#039;t watch the news much, do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That scenario would require an attacker who wants to kill students from a particular high school, which is a strange motive.</p></blockquote>
<p>You don&#8217;t watch the news much, do you?</p>
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		<title>By: galendp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554510</link>
		<dc:creator>galendp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554510</guid>
		<description> Cell phones with NFC communications would only work IF the RFID system use at the school uses the same rf modulation and protocols as the phone.  This isn&#039;t likely as NFC is designed for close range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Cell phones with NFC communications would only work IF the RFID system use at the school uses the same rf modulation and protocols as the phone.  This isn&#8217;t likely as NFC is designed for close range.</p>
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		<title>By: galendp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554505</link>
		<dc:creator>galendp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554505</guid>
		<description> Well, it depends entirely on which type of RFID system is being used.  Some systems, like what is used for the VISA PayPass system, are designed for short range (a few cm&#039;s).  Others, such as what is used for toll roads and inventory tracking can be used at 10&#039;s of meters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Well, it depends entirely on which type of RFID system is being used.  Some systems, like what is used for the VISA PayPass system, are designed for short range (a few cm&#8217;s).  Others, such as what is used for toll roads and inventory tracking can be used at 10&#8242;s of meters.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554474</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 20:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554474</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the costs of rfid are next to nothing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yeah, if you don&#039;t bother paying someone to monitor it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the costs of rfid are next to nothing.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, if you don&#8217;t bother paying someone to monitor it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sheryl Westleigh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554456</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheryl Westleigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 20:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554456</guid>
		<description>You assume a specific target and not maximum damage as the motive. The boys from Columbine weren&#039;t targeting any specific person. All technologies have the potential to be misused, saying otherwise is wishful thinking. That isn&#039;t a reason to ban the technology but to be vigilant and call out when people are using them in ways that are harmful.

I&#039;m against this sort of tracking because it&#039;s dehumanizing and school already treat children like criminals far too often (which I honestly believe is a good part of why so many schools are so bad, it has a psychological impat to be treated like that) more than I worry about the information it gathers. The information gathered is likely harmless, the effect of constant monitoring and suspicion is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You assume a specific target and not maximum damage as the motive. The boys from Columbine weren&#8217;t targeting any specific person. All technologies have the potential to be misused, saying otherwise is wishful thinking. That isn&#8217;t a reason to ban the technology but to be vigilant and call out when people are using them in ways that are harmful.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m against this sort of tracking because it&#8217;s dehumanizing and school already treat children like criminals far too often (which I honestly believe is a good part of why so many schools are so bad, it has a psychological impat to be treated like that) more than I worry about the information it gathers. The information gathered is likely harmless, the effect of constant monitoring and suspicion is not.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554422</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554422</guid>
		<description>OK, I concede that&#039;s possible.  Maybe you know a teenager willing to plan this far ahead; I don&#039;t, yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I concede that&#8217;s possible.  Maybe you know a teenager willing to plan this far ahead; I don&#8217;t, yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554365</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554365</guid>
		<description> A wallet that doubles as a Faraday cage would disable reading your RFID-enabled stuff, until you chose to have it read.  That would go a long way toward eliminating the threat of attackers trying to read your RFIDs if, for example, you&#039;re using an RFID-enabled object to pay for stuff (which you shouldn&#039;t willingly do).  Search the BoingBoing archives for &quot;Jessica Faraday.&quot;  I don&#039;t know whether she&#039;s tested her product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> A wallet that doubles as a Faraday cage would disable reading your RFID-enabled stuff, until you chose to have it read.  That would go a long way toward eliminating the threat of attackers trying to read your RFIDs if, for example, you&#8217;re using an RFID-enabled object to pay for stuff (which you shouldn&#8217;t willingly do).  Search the BoingBoing archives for &#8220;Jessica Faraday.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t know whether she&#8217;s tested her product.</p>
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		<title>By: random</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554342</link>
		<dc:creator>random</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554342</guid>
		<description>Not really; At least, I worry it makes the people who oppose such things for rational reasons look crazy by association.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really; At least, I worry it makes the people who oppose such things for rational reasons look crazy by association.</p>
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		<title>By: James Penrose</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554336</link>
		<dc:creator>James Penrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554336</guid>
		<description>&quot;She added: &quot;I walk home. Dangerous offenders can pick up on my signal.&quot;&quot;  More than a bit of hysterical &quot;Pedophiles are everywhere&quot; (Especially funny since this is a Catholic school so she may well have cassock-wearing abusers around her daily.) but the basic paranoia is sound.  If it&#039;s built into their student ID, just wrap it in foil or get an RF shielded wallet if you don&#039;t feel like microwaving it.  (I&#039;m just paranoid enough to wonder how long it will take before some vendor adds a tiny dosimeter or something that would indicate this has been done like Apple&#039;s little tattle-tale moisture sensors.)

Any sound websites on disabling this stuff properly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;She added: &#8220;I walk home. Dangerous offenders can pick up on my signal.&#8221;"  More than a bit of hysterical &#8220;Pedophiles are everywhere&#8221; (Especially funny since this is a Catholic school so she may well have cassock-wearing abusers around her daily.) but the basic paranoia is sound.  If it&#8217;s built into their student ID, just wrap it in foil or get an RF shielded wallet if you don&#8217;t feel like microwaving it.  (I&#8217;m just paranoid enough to wonder how long it will take before some vendor adds a tiny dosimeter or something that would indicate this has been done like Apple&#8217;s little tattle-tale moisture sensors.)</p>
<p>Any sound websites on disabling this stuff properly?</p>
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		<title>By: random</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554314</link>
		<dc:creator>random</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554314</guid>
		<description>Shouldn&#039;t be necessary to hack the school&#039;s database to identify a particular student... Just scan them surreptitiously one day, build your RFID triggered prank device to target them the next. Maybe not as practical if you want to target a group, but probably the easiest way for an individual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t be necessary to hack the school&#8217;s database to identify a particular student&#8230; Just scan them surreptitiously one day, build your RFID triggered prank device to target them the next. Maybe not as practical if you want to target a group, but probably the easiest way for an individual.</p>
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		<title>By: dragonfrog</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554307</link>
		<dc:creator>dragonfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554307</guid>
		<description>It is - it&#039;s apps that build on the Foursquare API, to do the reverse:  Pick a bar, restaurant, or coffee shop, and they will mine FS and FB for names, photos and biographical info on women at those places, so that on spottin them you can have a ready lie about how you recognized them from being in the same section of developmental psych last semester.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is &#8211; it&#8217;s apps that build on the Foursquare API, to do the reverse:  Pick a bar, restaurant, or coffee shop, and they will mine FS and FB for names, photos and biographical info on women at those places, so that on spottin them you can have a ready lie about how you recognized them from being in the same section of developmental psych last semester.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554280</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;except their (fictional) freedom to skip school&lt;/blockquote&gt;Incidentally, the guys who wrote the US constitution wouldn&#039;t have considered this freedom to be fictional.  Almost all of them would probably be horrified at the thought of 12 years of mandatory schooling.  Even the ones who owned slaves if that tells you anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>except their (fictional) freedom to skip school</p></blockquote>
<p>Incidentally, the guys who wrote the US constitution wouldn&#8217;t have considered this freedom to be fictional.  Almost all of them would probably be horrified at the thought of 12 years of mandatory schooling.  Even the ones who owned slaves if that tells you anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554265</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554265</guid>
		<description>Certainly I agree high school students will sometimes do disgusting pranks.  I just think using RFID to do it seems overdone.  There are way too many moving parts to be a serious threat---as opposed to all the other ways kids could think of to torment other kids, that don&#039;t require elaborate technology.  Fill a bucket with something nasty a la Carrie, pull a rope---no need to hack the school&#039;s database or anything.

I&#039;ll change my mind if there&#039;s a realistic threat here, I just don&#039;t see one yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly I agree high school students will sometimes do disgusting pranks.  I just think using RFID to do it seems overdone.  There are way too many moving parts to be a serious threat&#8212;as opposed to all the other ways kids could think of to torment other kids, that don&#8217;t require elaborate technology.  Fill a bucket with something nasty a la Carrie, pull a rope&#8212;no need to hack the school&#8217;s database or anything.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll change my mind if there&#8217;s a realistic threat here, I just don&#8217;t see one yet.</p>
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		<title>By: IronEdithKidd</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554249</link>
		<dc:creator>IronEdithKidd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554249</guid>
		<description>Re: blowing up kids.  Just a thought, but there are other types of bombs besides the firey/explody sort.  Stink bombs, paint bombs, etc. come to mind.  Exactly the kind of thing devious or vindictive kids might explore building.  And if you think high school students aren&#039;t smart enough to exploit RFID for their own petty purposes, then I say you gravely underestimate the destructive power of American youth.

[edit] Removed double negative.  Sorry, too little sleep.  Damn you, Tigers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: blowing up kids.  Just a thought, but there are other types of bombs besides the firey/explody sort.  Stink bombs, paint bombs, etc. come to mind.  Exactly the kind of thing devious or vindictive kids might explore building.  And if you think high school students aren&#8217;t smart enough to exploit RFID for their own petty purposes, then I say you gravely underestimate the destructive power of American youth.</p>
<p>[edit] Removed double negative.  Sorry, too little sleep.  Damn you, Tigers.</p>
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		<title>By: hazmat</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554243</link>
		<dc:creator>hazmat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554243</guid>
		<description>Public school (which includes charter schools) funding in Texas is based on Average Daily Attendance. Fraud in relation to this is criminal, which the school administration would probably push down to the teacher (all of the accountability, none of the pay!). Any time spent on taking attendance is time that can&#039;t be spent teaching. Since the teacher could be charged with a crime for doing it wrong, you can be sure that they will take extra effort to get it right- just scanning the classroom and marking things down is a pretty sure way to get fired and/or fined. All the non education related procedures individually seem tiny, but they add up to a significant portion of classroom time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Public school (which includes charter schools) funding in Texas is based on Average Daily Attendance. Fraud in relation to this is criminal, which the school administration would probably push down to the teacher (all of the accountability, none of the pay!). Any time spent on taking attendance is time that can&#8217;t be spent teaching. Since the teacher could be charged with a crime for doing it wrong, you can be sure that they will take extra effort to get it right- just scanning the classroom and marking things down is a pretty sure way to get fired and/or fined. All the non education related procedures individually seem tiny, but they add up to a significant portion of classroom time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Smith</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554220</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554220</guid>
		<description>Is this a viral ad for Little Brother/Homecoming?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this a viral ad for Little Brother/Homecoming?</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554209</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554209</guid>
		<description>Actually, I have.  You ignored everything I said to go off on your own irrelevant argument about how it&#039;s &lt;em&gt;totally cool&lt;/em&gt; to make people wear tracking devices under some circumstances but not others; but just because you ignore my arguments doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m not making them.  (Evidence: I never said administrators shouldn&#039;t be allowed to take attendance, but you accuse me of doing so.  There&#039;s a big difference between a policy like this one and &quot;taking attendance&quot; as I&#039;m sure you&#039;re actually aware.)  Here, I&#039;m just pointing out that there&#039;s some precedent for school systems abusing surveillance capabilities.

Since I apparently need to spell out everything really explicitly for you, &lt;em&gt;it is dehumanizing to make people wear tracking devices&lt;/em&gt;.  It is bad to dehumanize children.  Thus, the policy is a bad one.  Just because tracking kids off-campus is &lt;em&gt;worse&lt;/em&gt; than tracking them on-campus doesn&#039;t mean tracking them on-campus isn&#039;t bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I have.  You ignored everything I said to go off on your own irrelevant argument about how it&#8217;s <em>totally cool</em> to make people wear tracking devices under some circumstances but not others; but just because you ignore my arguments doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m not making them.  (Evidence: I never said administrators shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to take attendance, but you accuse me of doing so.  There&#8217;s a big difference between a policy like this one and &#8220;taking attendance&#8221; as I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re actually aware.)  Here, I&#8217;m just pointing out that there&#8217;s some precedent for school systems abusing surveillance capabilities.</p>
<p>Since I apparently need to spell out everything really explicitly for you, <em>it is dehumanizing to make people wear tracking devices</em>.  It is bad to dehumanize children.  Thus, the policy is a bad one.  Just because tracking kids off-campus is <em>worse</em> than tracking them on-campus doesn&#8217;t mean tracking them on-campus isn&#8217;t bad.</p>
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		<title>By: pKp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554195</link>
		<dc:creator>pKp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554195</guid>
		<description>The other thing is...aside from all the privacy angle, which I find personnally creepy, there&#039;s also the little fact that these will &lt;i&gt;never work as intented&lt;/i&gt;.

Kids break stuff. They lose stuff. They forget stuff at home. Short of an actual, honest-to-Satan body implant (in the forehead, prefferably), these things will NOT work as intended, and so the system won&#039;t be efficient because it will produce too many false positive (that is, there will be a ton of kids who read as absent in the system and are actually present).

BUT but but...the interesting thing is that over-reliance on tech will lead to administrators becoming more complacent. They&#039;ll stop showing up at the main door in the morning, because the kids will be beeping in, and more and more teachers will stop taking attendance, and you&#039;ll end up with good attendance stats but no actual idea wether one of your pupils is skipping more and more classes and edging towards dropping out.

Not to mention that expecting (most) school admins to understand, administrate and properly use ANY computer-based system is a fool&#039;s errand.

I&#039;d be willing to bet that the people who most hate this system right now are the lower-level admins and hall monitors. And that&#039;s probably why it will flop : because it sucks as an idea, and the implementation probably does too.

Source : I work in a small European high school and we&#039;re currently transitioning to a computer-based system to track attendance, among other things. It&#039;s pretty neat, but it&#039;s still a headache from time to time.

TL;DR : School admins suck at computers, students suck at not losing stuff : this project is both stupid and doomed (not mentioning creepy as fuck).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other thing is&#8230;aside from all the privacy angle, which I find personnally creepy, there&#8217;s also the little fact that these will <i>never work as intented</i>.</p>
<p>Kids break stuff. They lose stuff. They forget stuff at home. Short of an actual, honest-to-Satan body implant (in the forehead, prefferably), these things will NOT work as intended, and so the system won&#8217;t be efficient because it will produce too many false positive (that is, there will be a ton of kids who read as absent in the system and are actually present).</p>
<p>BUT but but&#8230;the interesting thing is that over-reliance on tech will lead to administrators becoming more complacent. They&#8217;ll stop showing up at the main door in the morning, because the kids will be beeping in, and more and more teachers will stop taking attendance, and you&#8217;ll end up with good attendance stats but no actual idea wether one of your pupils is skipping more and more classes and edging towards dropping out.</p>
<p>Not to mention that expecting (most) school admins to understand, administrate and properly use ANY computer-based system is a fool&#8217;s errand.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be willing to bet that the people who most hate this system right now are the lower-level admins and hall monitors. And that&#8217;s probably why it will flop : because it sucks as an idea, and the implementation probably does too.</p>
<p>Source : I work in a small European high school and we&#8217;re currently transitioning to a computer-based system to track attendance, among other things. It&#8217;s pretty neat, but it&#8217;s still a headache from time to time.</p>
<p>TL;DR : School admins suck at computers, students suck at not losing stuff : this project is both stupid and doomed (not mentioning creepy as fuck).</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554182</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554182</guid>
		<description> Again, you conflate ON-campus surveillance, which the school is doing, with OFF-campus surveillance, which this school is not doing, because creepy.  Because you object to school administrators being allowed to take attendance at their own school.  You haven&#039;t articulated how any of what&#039;s actually happening in San Antonio infringes on student freedom or privacy, except their (fictional) freedom to skip school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Again, you conflate ON-campus surveillance, which the school is doing, with OFF-campus surveillance, which this school is not doing, because creepy.  Because you object to school administrators being allowed to take attendance at their own school.  You haven&#8217;t articulated how any of what&#8217;s actually happening in San Antonio infringes on student freedom or privacy, except their (fictional) freedom to skip school.</p>
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		<title>By: Sagodjur</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554173</link>
		<dc:creator>Sagodjur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554173</guid>
		<description>Parents giving permission to a cellphone carrier to &quot;track&quot; their children&#039;s activity as a necessary part of providing cellphone service is not the same as giving permission to a public school administrator to track the children by their cellphone signals for the purposes of enforcing attendance policies (and for the inadvertent reality of violating their privacy). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parents giving permission to a cellphone carrier to &#8220;track&#8221; their children&#8217;s activity as a necessary part of providing cellphone service is not the same as giving permission to a public school administrator to track the children by their cellphone signals for the purposes of enforcing attendance policies (and for the inadvertent reality of violating their privacy). </p>
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		<title>By: pKp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554158</link>
		<dc:creator>pKp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554158</guid>
		<description>They were not. HS kids suck at conspiring. And being on time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They were not. HS kids suck at conspiring. And being on time.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Pierce</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554160</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554160</guid>
		<description>Who&#039;s talking about getting the kids permission?   They surrendered it to their mobile carrier when they got the device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s talking about getting the kids permission?   They surrendered it to their mobile carrier when they got the device.</p>
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		<title>By: pKp</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554156</link>
		<dc:creator>pKp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554156</guid>
		<description>If I know anything about high schools (and I work in one), they&#039;ll use this IN ADDITION TO the old computerized system (and possibly the even-older, but more rugged, paper-based system). No school admin worth her salt would put her trust in a single system.
Now, what they &lt;i&gt;report&lt;/i&gt; is another matter...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I know anything about high schools (and I work in one), they&#8217;ll use this IN ADDITION TO the old computerized system (and possibly the even-older, but more rugged, paper-based system). No school admin worth her salt would put her trust in a single system.<br />
Now, what they <i>report</i> is another matter&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/san-antonio-students-and-paren.html#comment-1554149</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=186650#comment-1554149</guid>
		<description>Schools get funding based on attendance. But schools are also held responsible for when a student does not attend. If a student does not show up, the school must contact the parent to inform them. If they didn&#039;t (inform the parent) and the student went missing, (got abducted, ran-away, or just went somewhere else) the school could be liable if/when the parent finds out what&#039;s happening.

So it&#039;s important that the school keep accurate attendance records. RFID tags are a somewhat extreme example -- and I&#039;d imagine, because of the relatively short-range of the RFID signal, they&#039;d need to have many, many repeater stations around the school (at all exits, in all classrooms, at regular intervals in hallways) if they really wanted to keep track of a student&#039;s position. And a kid could simply wrap a bit of tin-foil around the tag if they wanted to disappear.

It&#039;s more likely the school would simply have a RFID receiver station in the classroom, and tell the students to tag themselves in when they enter the class. Failure to tag would count as an unexplained absence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schools get funding based on attendance. But schools are also held responsible for when a student does not attend. If a student does not show up, the school must contact the parent to inform them. If they didn&#8217;t (inform the parent) and the student went missing, (got abducted, ran-away, or just went somewhere else) the school could be liable if/when the parent finds out what&#8217;s happening.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s important that the school keep accurate attendance records. RFID tags are a somewhat extreme example &#8212; and I&#8217;d imagine, because of the relatively short-range of the RFID signal, they&#8217;d need to have many, many repeater stations around the school (at all exits, in all classrooms, at regular intervals in hallways) if they really wanted to keep track of a student&#8217;s position. And a kid could simply wrap a bit of tin-foil around the tag if they wanted to disappear.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more likely the school would simply have a RFID receiver station in the classroom, and tell the students to tag themselves in when they enter the class. Failure to tag would count as an unexplained absence.</p>
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