Comments on: DC pulls in a record-setting $85M from traffic cams http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 15:46:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: lavardera http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562589 lavardera Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562589 And this is where I really believe the whole thing exposes itself as a scam to raise revenue. Ok, you are going to use a machine to monitor us, and penalize us for our behavior. That sucks. But then when you fall short of the standard of the law for penalizing somebody, you are going to try to trick them into confessing to the violation and bully them into paying the fine.  To me this is the line that is crossed into unethical enforcement. And this is where I really believe the whole thing exposes itself as a scam to raise revenue. Ok, you are going to use a machine to monitor us, and penalize us for our behavior. That sucks. But then when you fall short of the standard of the law for penalizing somebody, you are going to try to trick them into confessing to the violation and bully them into paying the fine. 

To me this is the line that is crossed into unethical enforcement.

]]> By: GawainLavers http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562437 GawainLavers Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562437 Guess I'm just one of the stupid sheeple who hasn't learned to hate the government sufficiently, but I can't help that think that the fact that there are investigations and public approbation when the lights are not properly timed rather proves my point. Guess I’m just one of the stupid sheeple who hasn’t learned to hate the government sufficiently, but I can’t help that think that the fact that there are investigations and public approbation when the lights are not properly timed rather proves my point.

]]> By: blueelm http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562298 blueelm Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562298 They're pretty common where I live outside of the city proper, and even within there are a couple highways which become basically highways-with-traffic-lights at some point.  They’re pretty common where I live outside of the city proper, and even within there are a couple highways which become basically highways-with-traffic-lights at some point. 

]]> By: OtherMichael http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562190 OtherMichael Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562190  My wife constantly tells me I'm leaving too large a gap between cars in heavily congested areas (so other cars pull in to fill the gap). "You need to get so close there's not enough room for them to do that!" she'll say. At 60mph I find it awfully hard to justify being within 20 feet of another vehicle. If somebody else wants to be an idiot and fill in the gap (or honk, or "say bad words") -- well, let 'em. Just because I have a life insurance policy is no reason to drive like an idiot.  My wife constantly tells me I’m leaving too large a gap between cars in heavily congested areas (so other cars pull in to fill the gap). “You need to get so close there’s not enough room for them to do that!” she’ll say.

At 60mph I find it awfully hard to justify being within 20 feet of another vehicle. If somebody else wants to be an idiot and fill in the gap (or honk, or “say bad words”) — well, let ‘em.

Just because I have a life insurance policy is no reason to drive like an idiot.

]]> By: OtherMichael http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562178 OtherMichael Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562178 > I'm a little wary, however, of the government having an incentive *not* to reduce red light violations. What difference does that make? The red lights are still there, and pretty much everybody is aware that you are supposed to stop on red. Those that don't feel like it, and feel they can afford it, can speed on through, and pay up. Leaving the rest of us to wait, and reap the benefits of their largesse. What "we" are doing is allowing somebody to pay to run a red light. If there is an accident, the insurance lawyers will take care of the situation, but in the absence of an accident, the driver pays to play. It's a choice -- they are betting (the cost of the eventual fine) that there will be no accident. If they are correct, they pay. If they are incorrect, they potentially pay with their life. But that's probably a person who would have sped on through <strong>without</strong> paying in the first place. [probably, possibly, maybe, guesses all. There needs to be more contextual numbers.] > I’m a little wary, however, of the government having an incentive *not* to reduce red light violations.

What difference does that make? The red lights are still there, and pretty much everybody is aware that you are supposed to stop on red. Those that don’t feel like it, and feel they can afford it, can speed on through, and pay up. Leaving the rest of us to wait, and reap the benefits of their largesse.

What “we” are doing is allowing somebody to pay to run a red light. If there is an accident, the insurance lawyers will take care of the situation, but in the absence of an accident, the driver pays to play.

It’s a choice — they are betting (the cost of the eventual fine) that there will be no accident. If they are correct, they pay. If they are incorrect, they potentially pay with their life.

But that’s probably a person who would have sped on through without paying in the first place.

[probably, possibly, maybe, guesses all. There needs to be more contextual numbers.]

]]> By: IronEdithKidd http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562175 IronEdithKidd Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562175 US-12 through suburban Detroit is posted 55 mph.  It's stoplights all the way. US-12 through suburban Detroit is posted 55 mph.  It’s stoplights all the way.

]]> By: lavardera http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562047 lavardera Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562047 What many don't know is that the red light camera companies send out many "fake" tickets in situations where they don't have a face photo or sufficient evidence to meet the requirement of the law. If they can trick you into paying, you admit you are guilty in the process of paying the fine.  There are a couple of differences. A fake will say "do not contact the court" because a real ticket has not been issued; while a real ticket always tells you how and where to contact the court. What many don’t know is that the red light camera companies send out many “fake” tickets in situations where they don’t have a face photo or sufficient evidence to meet the requirement of the law. If they can trick you into paying, you admit you are guilty in the process of paying the fine. 

There are a couple of differences. A fake will say “do not contact the court” because a real ticket has not been issued; while a real ticket always tells you how and where to contact the court.

]]> By: lavardera http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1562041 lavardera Mon, 22 Oct 2012 01:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1562041 In Philadelphia, if you are poor and can't pay the fine they allow you to sign up for a payment plan for your fines. However, if you miss a payment, guess what? Warrant, and jail.  In Philadelphia, if you are poor and can’t pay the fine they allow you to sign up for a payment plan for your fines. However, if you miss a payment, guess what? Warrant, and jail. 

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561985 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561985 <blockquote>A Swedish motorist caught driving at 290km/h (180mph) in Switzerland could be given a world-record speeding fine of SFr1.08m ($1m; £656,000), prosecutors say.</blockquote>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230

A Swedish motorist caught driving at 290km/h (180mph) in Switzerland could be given a world-record speeding fine of SFr1.08m ($1m; £656,000), prosecutors say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561980 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561980 I can't remember the last time that I saw BB commenters so eager to ignore facts in order to support ethical malfeasance by the authorities. http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/ Those cities, BTW, have a combined population of 9,000,000 in their metropolitan areas. And they're just the ones who were caught and made the news. I can’t remember the last time that I saw BB commenters so eager to ignore facts in order to support ethical malfeasance by the authorities.
http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/
Those cities, BTW, have a combined population of 9,000,000 in their metropolitan areas. And they’re just the ones who were caught and made the news.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561978 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561978 We have a whole grid of streets (each square in the grid is a square mile) where the speed limit is 45 to 50 mph, and all of the intersections are controlled by traffic lights. Your BS detector needs recalibration. We have a whole grid of streets (each square in the grid is a square mile) where the speed limit is 45 to 50 mph, and all of the intersections are controlled by traffic lights. Your BS detector needs recalibration.

]]> By: Mirarkitty http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561977 Mirarkitty Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561977  Or Red Cross or wherever the ticketed person feels like. Including the goverment, I suppose?  Or Red Cross or wherever the ticketed person feels like. Including the goverment, I suppose?

]]> By: uglypedro http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561976 uglypedro Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561976 Most cameras are *leased* to cities/counties....the camera owners maintain the camera and sets the "timing". These companies also get a % of all revenue the cameras make.....isn't that a "conflict of interest"? And that's why I refuse to install a front plate....no front plate, no camera ticket (maybe a $10 fixit ticket.) Ya gotta fight these fuckers any way you can! Most cameras are *leased* to cities/counties….the camera owners maintain the camera and sets the “timing”. These companies also get a % of all revenue the cameras make…..isn’t that a “conflict of interest”?

And that’s why I refuse to install a front plate….no front plate, no camera ticket (maybe a $10 fixit ticket.) Ya gotta fight these fuckers any way you can!

]]> By: GawainLavers http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561965 GawainLavers Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561965 The yellow lights are timed such that if you see it and don't have time to stop then either you will clear the intersection before it turns red or you were speeding.  I've definitely been in the intersection when it turned red before, and it was always because I was speeding at the time. The yellow lights are timed such that if you see it and don’t have time to stop then either you will clear the intersection before it turns red or you were speeding.  I’ve definitely been in the intersection when it turned red before, and it was always because I was speeding at the time.

]]> By: GawainLavers http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561961 GawainLavers Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561961 I don't have any statistics handy, but as a San Francisco pedestrian, I've seen the difference that red light cameras make and am wholly in favor of them.  I used to joke that SF etiquette demanded that you at least make it through before the light turned green again, but now I very rarely see significant red light running.  I'm talking about multiple cars blowing through a full red, not just in the intersection when it turned. Incidentally, if I remember the story correctly, the first red light camera here was put up by a lawyer who was sick of watching fatal accidents occur directly outside of his office window. I don’t have any statistics handy, but as a San Francisco pedestrian, I’ve seen the difference that red light cameras make and am wholly in favor of them.  I used to joke that SF etiquette demanded that you at least make it through before the light turned green again, but now I very rarely see significant red light running.  I’m talking about multiple cars blowing through a full red, not just in the intersection when it turned.

Incidentally, if I remember the story correctly, the first red light camera here was put up by a lawyer who was sick of watching fatal accidents occur directly outside of his office window.

]]> By: Substance McGravitas http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561953 Substance McGravitas Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561953 You're not okay with fines for things?  It seems like an obvious good and keeps people out of jail.  The problem with fines is that they're the same for zillionaires and poor people alike, except in some enlightened places.  It would be WONDERFUL if DC could fund itself on the backs of rich idiots doing stupid things, given that they spend a lot of  time making sure things AREN'T funded. You’re not okay with fines for things?  It seems like an obvious good and keeps people out of jail.  The problem with fines is that they’re the same for zillionaires and poor people alike, except in some enlightened places. 

It would be WONDERFUL if DC could fund itself on the backs of rich idiots doing stupid things, given that they spend a lot of  time making sure things AREN’T funded.

]]> By: Rindan http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561857 Rindan Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561857 That simply isn't true.  Not every red light that is run is a driver being malicious.  A lot of the time it is simply the best of bad options.  If a light turns yellow close to the point of no return zone, you can either break hard or continue forward.  Generally, it is safer to simply keep going.  If you break hard you are going to have to rely on the person behind you to be paying attention and have a decent reaction time.  This is a dumb assumption, and price of being wrong is getting whacked in the ass.  Good accident reducing driving involves assuming that everyone else around you is a moron. There are also grey areas.  If someone isn't paying attention (cell phone or kids) or has had their attention pulled by something else that is urgent (biker or ped doing something stupid), and they look up and see a yellow light, what would you prefer them to do?  Under normal conditions they will decide if they can stop safely, and if they can't, go through.  With a traffic light, it is a no brainer.  You slam your breaks and hope like hell the guy behind you is paying attention. This shit matters.  With hundreds of MILLIONS of people in the US alone facing intersections each day, anything you do that makes them a little more unpredictable or rare events more likely to occur is going to result in vastly more accidents. If we really want to go with the traffic camera on every light approach, we need to change traffic lights.  Namely, yellow lights need to display a count down so that drivers can make a better informed decision, rather than defaulting to slamming the breaks, consequences be damned. That simply isn’t true.  Not every red light that is run is a driver being malicious.  A lot of the time it is simply the best of bad options.  If a light turns yellow close to the point of no return zone, you can either break hard or continue forward.  Generally, it is safer to simply keep going.  If you break hard you are going to have to rely on the person behind you to be paying attention and have a decent reaction time.  This is a dumb assumption, and price of being wrong is getting whacked in the ass.  Good accident reducing driving involves assuming that everyone else around you is a moron.
There are also grey areas.  If someone isn’t paying attention (cell phone or kids) or has had their attention pulled by something else that is urgent (biker or ped doing something stupid), and they look up and see a yellow light, what would you prefer them to do?  Under normal conditions they will decide if they can stop safely, and if they can’t, go through.  With a traffic light, it is a no brainer.  You slam your breaks and hope like hell the guy behind you is paying attention.

This shit matters.  With hundreds of MILLIONS of people in the US alone facing intersections each day, anything you do that makes them a little more unpredictable or rare events more likely to occur is going to result in vastly more accidents.

If we really want to go with the traffic camera on every light approach, we need to change traffic lights.  Namely, yellow lights need to display a count down so that drivers can make a better informed decision, rather than defaulting to slamming the breaks, consequences be damned.

]]> By: zartan74 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561851 zartan74 Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561851 Here are the rules for contesting DC red light camera fines - there are numerous options to do so without needing to appear in person or otherwise inconvenience yourself http://dmv.dc.gov/service/contest-photo-enforcement-ticket Here are the rules for contesting DC red light camera fines – there are numerous options to do so without needing to appear in person or otherwise inconvenience yourself

http://dmv.dc.gov/service/contest-photo-enforcement-ticket

]]> By: zartan74 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561845 zartan74 Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561845 Specifically, the answer to "How do you question its software?" is very simple, you watch the video and contest the citation. Specifically, the answer to “How do you question its software?” is very simple, you watch the video and contest the citation.

]]> By: zartan74 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561843 zartan74 Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561843 Have you ever received a red light camera ticket?  Or are you just ranting? I live in DC and received a red light camera ticket. I was making a right turn, legally, on red, but the camera got me. I got a letter in the mail with pictures of my car and a citation, along with a link to a video of the alleged infraction.  I reviewed the video, which clearly showed me making a full stop and then turning right on red.  So, I checked the box on the citation to contest the video, and sent it back.  Two months later, I got a letter indicating that I had been exonerated and the citation was void.   No problem. Having had this experience, I believe the vitriol that people have about red light cameras has nothing to do with facts.  Do they cause accidents because people are more likely to stop at yellow lights?  Maybe.  But people should never be tailgating so closely that they rear-end the driver in front of them.  Hopefully as people get more used to the existence of red lights they will stop tailgating. Have you ever received a red light camera ticket?  Or are you just ranting?

I live in DC and received a red light camera ticket. I was making a right turn, legally, on red, but the camera got me. I got a letter in the mail with pictures of my car and a citation, along with a link to a video of the alleged infraction.  I reviewed the video, which clearly showed me making a full stop and then turning right on red.  So, I checked the box on the citation to contest the video, and sent it back.  Two months later, I got a letter indicating that I had been exonerated and the citation was void.  

No problem.

Having had this experience, I believe the vitriol that people have about red light cameras has nothing to do with facts.  Do they cause accidents because people are more likely to stop at yellow lights?  Maybe.  But people should never be tailgating so closely that they rear-end the driver in front of them.  Hopefully as people get more used to the existence of red lights they will stop tailgating.

]]> By: chgoliz http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561841 chgoliz Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561841 I'd argue the opposite: most people DO drive dangerously, but the definition of driving dangerously should not be limited to speeding.  Give me a smart driver who knows the car and conditions well enough to know what speed is correct in that circumstance any time over the timid driver going significantly below the speed limit in a passing lane, blocking traffic, slowing down as they get to an intersection (sometimes even coming to a complete stop) only to speed up and drive through after the yellow light turns red, switching 3 or 4 lanes at the last minute to make an exit....to say nothing of the texters, phone callers, etc.  Now THOSE are dangerous drivers.  And they don't usually get tickets. I’d argue the opposite: most people DO drive dangerously, but the definition of driving dangerously should not be limited to speeding.  Give me a smart driver who knows the car and conditions well enough to know what speed is correct in that circumstance any time over the timid driver going significantly below the speed limit in a passing lane, blocking traffic, slowing down as they get to an intersection (sometimes even coming to a complete stop) only to speed up and drive through after the yellow light turns red, switching 3 or 4 lanes at the last minute to make an exit….to say nothing of the texters, phone callers, etc.  Now THOSE are dangerous drivers.  And they don’t usually get tickets.

]]> By: chgoliz http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561838 chgoliz Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561838 Not defending the other poster's story, but much of rural US has 55 mph roads which have stoplight intersections every 10 miles or even more.  You really are going 55 for quite some time before being put in a position where you MIGHT have to stop. Not defending the other poster’s story, but much of rural US has 55 mph roads which have stoplight intersections every 10 miles or even more.  You really are going 55 for quite some time before being put in a position where you MIGHT have to stop.

]]> By: Andrew Davies http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561830 Andrew Davies Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561830 The problem is there is no real incentive to reduce false positives.  In fact, both the government and industry make more money when there are false positives.   I've heard stories from friends in DC that it's almost impossible to contest these tickets, so people mostly just pay.  It's kind of like the industry enforced copyright laws that way. The problem is there is no real incentive to reduce false positives.  In fact, both the government and industry make more money when there are false positives.   I’ve heard stories from friends in DC that it’s almost impossible to contest these tickets, so people mostly just pay. 

It’s kind of like the industry enforced copyright laws that way.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561805 SomeGuyNamedMark Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561805  @waetherman:disqus In Finland fines are based on your income so they've had some huge fines put on rich offenders.  @waetherman:disqus In Finland fines are based on your income so they’ve had some huge fines put on rich offenders.

]]> By: andygates http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561789 andygates Sun, 21 Oct 2012 11:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561789 The "excuses to make money" argument has a big flaw: the driver is performing something they know is illegal, know why it's illegal, and are choosing to do.  Their contribution to the tax take is entirely voluntary. The “excuses to make money” argument has a big flaw: the driver is performing something they know is illegal, know why it’s illegal, and are choosing to do.  Their contribution to the tax take is entirely voluntary.

]]> By: Yacko http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561782 Yacko Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561782 Most, if not all traffic violations, are civil offenses. No jail time, just fines. Most, if not all traffic violations, are civil offenses. No jail time, just fines.

]]> By: Yacko http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561781 Yacko Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561781 "the lady in front of me saw yellow and STOOD on her brake at 50mph." Cmon, a road which needs the traffic contol of a light system and the speed limit is 50mph? Something about this story is completely BS. “the lady in front of me saw yellow and STOOD on her brake at 50mph.”

Cmon, a road which needs the traffic contol of a light system and the speed limit is 50mph? Something about this story is completely BS.

]]> By: AlexG55 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561772 AlexG55 Sun, 21 Oct 2012 09:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561772 Reply to waetherman: I'd rather have higher fines in accordance with the driver's income rather than the value of the car. That way a miserly millionaire in a beater still gets stung, but you're not punishing an enthusiast who's driving a classic that they've made that valuable by restoring themselves- or drivers of commercial vehicles or limos. I believe some Scandinavian countries already do that for speeding fines, and have the fine proportional to the driver's income and the amount over the limit. IIRC the owner of Nokia once got a $50,000 speeding ticket... Reply to waetherman: I’d rather have higher fines in accordance with the driver’s income rather than the value of the car. That way a miserly millionaire in a beater still gets stung, but you’re not punishing an enthusiast who’s driving a classic that they’ve made that valuable by restoring themselves- or drivers of commercial vehicles or limos.

I believe some Scandinavian countries already do that for speeding fines, and have the fine proportional to the driver’s income and the amount over the limit. IIRC the owner of Nokia once got a $50,000 speeding ticket…

]]> By: Jaan http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561740 Jaan Sun, 21 Oct 2012 05:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561740 Let's face reality; most people don't drive dangerously...regardless of what the pattern of paint on the metal signs by the side of the road is.  This has happened in England and will happen here too; supplemental road tax collecting machines are put in places where people "speed" because it's safe to do so, NOT in places where it's actually dangerous to speed, because most people don't actually drive dangerously. Let’s face reality; most people don’t drive dangerously…regardless of what the pattern of paint on the metal signs by the side of the road is.  This has happened in England and will happen here too; supplemental road tax collecting machines are put in places where people “speed” because it’s safe to do so, NOT in places where it’s actually dangerous to speed, because most people don’t actually drive dangerously.

]]> By: Marc Mielke http://boingboing.net/2012/10/20/dc-pulls-in-a-record-setting.html#comment-1561737 Marc Mielke Sun, 21 Oct 2012 05:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=188721#comment-1561737 Is the government in this case profiting from criminal behaviour? The entire lot of them should be thrown in jail for that! Is the government in this case profiting from criminal behaviour? The entire lot of them should be thrown in jail for that!

]]>