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	<title>Comments on: Did climate change cause Hurricane Sandy? The answer depends on why you&#039;re&#160;asking</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1570377</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1570377</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t contending that the global temperature was rising, in fact that&#039;s a major aspect of my entire point.

I&#039;m happy to use whatever term makes people listen, and it doesn&#039;t surprise me that the terminology is more effective if people can relate to it. It&#039;s a factually accurate description anyway - in fact you could argue that it&#039;s more nuanced - so I don&#039;t see it doing any harm.

tl;dr: Whatever works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t contending that the global temperature was rising, in fact that&#8217;s a major aspect of my entire point.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy to use whatever term makes people listen, and it doesn&#8217;t surprise me that the terminology is more effective if people can relate to it. It&#8217;s a factually accurate description anyway &#8211; in fact you could argue that it&#8217;s more nuanced &#8211; so I don&#8217;t see it doing any harm.</p>
<p>tl;dr: Whatever works.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter Borden</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1570359</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Borden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1570359</guid>
		<description>But in actual point of data and evidence the global trend is towards warming, not cooling. I agree that its imperfect, but shouldn&#039;t the term at least reflect the GHG heat trapping element? So, on balance, I agree, Climate Change is too much corporate focusgroupspeak</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But in actual point of data and evidence the global trend is towards warming, not cooling. I agree that its imperfect, but shouldn&#8217;t the term at least reflect the GHG heat trapping element? So, on balance, I agree, Climate Change is too much corporate focusgroupspeak</p>
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		<title>By: crdcalusa</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1569887</link>
		<dc:creator>crdcalusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1569887</guid>
		<description>Very good points! I often wonder why we humans persist in going outside ourselves to latch onto some self satisfying answer. It only leads to a kind of masochism and since we are all connected in this denial it&#039;s actually a kind of sadism. Never find the solution closest to you for fear that you can&#039;t face your own complicit cooperation in the massive imbalance that we have created....together!  Logically, even if we can&#039;t understand consequences of our actions upon the climate, and how our inhumanity multiplies, the world would be a much better place for humans if we practiced mutual responsibility and progressed to a state of unified humane values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good points! I often wonder why we humans persist in going outside ourselves to latch onto some self satisfying answer. It only leads to a kind of masochism and since we are all connected in this denial it&#8217;s actually a kind of sadism. Never find the solution closest to you for fear that you can&#8217;t face your own complicit cooperation in the massive imbalance that we have created&#8230;.together!  Logically, even if we can&#8217;t understand consequences of our actions upon the climate, and how our inhumanity multiplies, the world would be a much better place for humans if we practiced mutual responsibility and progressed to a state of unified humane values.</p>
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		<title>By: Realitychck1</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1569867</link>
		<dc:creator>Realitychck1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1569867</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t mother nature grand?  She is simply obeying the Laws of Physics. &#039;Man&#039; and &#039;his&#039; inability to understand the rules and work in line with them has caused these ever increasing occurances.  Maybe &#039;man&#039; will get the hint now?  When you work in a system governed by laws, you are not above them.  Burn gases here, build highrise there, act without understanding larger consequences etc,- you will change weather patterns.  And the root cause of man doing all of this is greed - putting self above the rest and thinking only of &#039;his&#039; sort term pleasure at the expense of the rest.  I find it interesting that mother nature aka laws of physics pushes back and, through its actions causes us to wake up - maybe just for a moment - look outside of ourselves and our comfort zones, and gather together to help one another.  Those you ignored yesterday, suddenly you rely upon. I&#039;m starting to see a pattern here.  
1.  ignore rules of nature, and be interested in only &#039;self&#039;, 
2.  laws of physics create balance within system by devastating communities 
3.  people forced to come together and help each other. 
4.  go back to greedy self servings ways.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
Hmm, makes you think we&#039;re all lunatics, doesnt it?  Maybe we can start to leave out #4 now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t mother nature grand?  She is simply obeying the Laws of Physics. &#8216;Man&#8217; and &#8216;his&#8217; inability to understand the rules and work in line with them has caused these ever increasing occurances.  Maybe &#8216;man&#8217; will get the hint now?  When you work in a system governed by laws, you are not above them.  Burn gases here, build highrise there, act without understanding larger consequences etc,- you will change weather patterns.  And the root cause of man doing all of this is greed &#8211; putting self above the rest and thinking only of &#8216;his&#8217; sort term pleasure at the expense of the rest.  I find it interesting that mother nature aka laws of physics pushes back and, through its actions causes us to wake up &#8211; maybe just for a moment &#8211; look outside of ourselves and our comfort zones, and gather together to help one another.  Those you ignored yesterday, suddenly you rely upon. I&#8217;m starting to see a pattern here. <br />
1.  ignore rules of nature, and be interested in only &#8216;self&#8217;,<br />
2.  laws of physics create balance within system by devastating communities<br />
3.  people forced to come together and help each other.<br />
4.  go back to greedy self servings ways.<br />
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.<br />
Albert Einstein<br />
Hmm, makes you think we&#8217;re all lunatics, doesnt it?  Maybe we can start to leave out #4 now?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny45</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1569502</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1569502</guid>
		<description>Why are you talking to the mirror oneStarman?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are you talking to the mirror oneStarman?</p>
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		<title>By: wrecksdart</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1569212</link>
		<dc:creator>wrecksdart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 20:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1569212</guid>
		<description> And thanks for coming off as a condescending jerk.  KWillets question, as I read it, doesn&#039;t appear to be written by a stupid person.  I recognize that emotions are running high, especially with a huge election around the corner and a once-a-(insert insanely long figure here) storm battering the Eastern Seaboard, but your soapbox science rant seems a touch exclamation-pointy, a little nutty, and downright rude at the end.How &#039;bout we tone it down a touch, Sparky?  Certainly we can have a civilized discourse about such topics?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> And thanks for coming off as a condescending jerk.  KWillets question, as I read it, doesn&#8217;t appear to be written by a stupid person.  I recognize that emotions are running high, especially with a huge election around the corner and a once-a-(insert insanely long figure here) storm battering the Eastern Seaboard, but your soapbox science rant seems a touch exclamation-pointy, a little nutty, and downright rude at the end.How &#8217;bout we tone it down a touch, Sparky?  Certainly we can have a civilized discourse about such topics?  </p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1569040</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1569040</guid>
		<description> And actually, 100% relative humidity everywhere all the time would &lt;em&gt;still&lt;/em&gt; imply more evaporation given an increase in atmospheric temperature.  The increase in temperature requires that &quot;100% RH&quot; means a &lt;em&gt;larger&lt;/em&gt; partial pressure of water vapor in the atmosphere than under the cooler temperature.  To maintain 100% RH under higher temperatures requires more water vapor -- and that&#039;s going to come from evaporation.

You&#039;ve convinced me it isn&#039;t common sense, though, since my argument is based on general scientific knowledge that a lot of people don&#039;t spend a lot of time learning or thinking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> And actually, 100% relative humidity everywhere all the time would <em>still</em> imply more evaporation given an increase in atmospheric temperature.  The increase in temperature requires that &#8220;100% RH&#8221; means a <em>larger</em> partial pressure of water vapor in the atmosphere than under the cooler temperature.  To maintain 100% RH under higher temperatures requires more water vapor &#8212; and that&#8217;s going to come from evaporation.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve convinced me it isn&#8217;t common sense, though, since my argument is based on general scientific knowledge that a lot of people don&#8217;t spend a lot of time learning or thinking about.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1569005</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1569005</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I&#039;m actually confused about this but your argument isn&#039;t actually making sense to me.

Total energy under greenhouse effect goes up.  The amount entering the system stays the same but less is radiated into space so the total increases.  This increase in total energy is absolutely relevant to the rate of evaporation:
1) It increases the capacity of air to contain water vapor.
2) It increases the rate of evaporation of water -- &lt;em&gt;regardless&lt;/em&gt; of relative humidity.  If relative humidity is high then condensation and evaporation may happen at the same rate, but because of (1) we&#039;re essentially guaranteed this isn&#039;t the case.  There will be &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; increase in evaporation even if feedback suppresses it somewhat.&lt;blockquote&gt;Any temperature can have 100% RH, with a net evaporation rate of zero.  It&#039;s not convoluted at all.  &lt;/blockquote&gt;But is this a realistic real-world scenario?  100% RH everywhere all the time?  I think to make your argument that evaporation wouldn&#039;t increase at all -- to argue that there is 100% RH everywhere all the time, essentially, &lt;em&gt;would&lt;/em&gt; actually require an incredibly convoluted argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m actually confused about this but your argument isn&#8217;t actually making sense to me.</p>
<p>Total energy under greenhouse effect goes up.  The amount entering the system stays the same but less is radiated into space so the total increases.  This increase in total energy is absolutely relevant to the rate of evaporation:<br />
1) It increases the capacity of air to contain water vapor.<br />
2) It increases the rate of evaporation of water &#8212; <em>regardless</em> of relative humidity.  If relative humidity is high then condensation and evaporation may happen at the same rate, but because of (1) we&#8217;re essentially guaranteed this isn&#8217;t the case.  There will be <em>some</em> increase in evaporation even if feedback suppresses it somewhat.<br />
<blockquote>Any temperature can have 100% RH, with a net evaporation rate of zero.  It&#8217;s not convoluted at all.  </p></blockquote>
<p>But is this a realistic real-world scenario?  100% RH everywhere all the time?  I think to make your argument that evaporation wouldn&#8217;t increase at all &#8212; to argue that there is 100% RH everywhere all the time, essentially, <em>would</em> actually require an incredibly convoluted argument.</p>
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		<title>By: KWillets</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568988</link>
		<dc:creator>KWillets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568988</guid>
		<description>You seem to be confusing &quot;heat&quot; as temperature vs. energy transfer.  The amount of heat energy entering the system is the same, unless you buy the hotter-sun idea, and some of this energy goes into evaporating water, but it&#039;s not clear why more energy would go into that process.  It&#039;s a Carnot cycle.

Any temperature can have 100% RH, with a net evaporation rate of zero.  It&#039;s not convoluted at all.  

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be confusing &#8220;heat&#8221; as temperature vs. energy transfer.  The amount of heat energy entering the system is the same, unless you buy the hotter-sun idea, and some of this energy goes into evaporating water, but it&#8217;s not clear why more energy would go into that process.  It&#8217;s a Carnot cycle.</p>
<p>Any temperature can have 100% RH, with a net evaporation rate of zero.  It&#8217;s not convoluted at all.  </p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568931</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568931</guid>
		<description>When you put it like that…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you put it like that…</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568917</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568917</guid>
		<description>Relevant ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relevant ones.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568914</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568914</guid>
		<description> Also, everything else being equal, more heat means more evaporation -- and that is kinda common sense.

Yes, yes, relative humidity.  But increased heat increases the capacity for air to hold water &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; increases the rate of evaporation.  So while you can probably come up with some convoluted reason why increased temperatures wouldn&#039;t result in more evaporation it would need to be &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; convoluted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Also, everything else being equal, more heat means more evaporation &#8212; and that is kinda common sense.</p>
<p>Yes, yes, relative humidity.  But increased heat increases the capacity for air to hold water <em>and</em> increases the rate of evaporation.  So while you can probably come up with some convoluted reason why increased temperatures wouldn&#8217;t result in more evaporation it would need to be <em>really</em> convoluted.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568913</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568913</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, I guess I should know better than to ask a science question on Boingboing,&lt;/blockquote&gt;Usually the comments are better than this and the only problem you&#039;d have is that someone would link you to lmgtfy for asking an easily googled question.  BB commenters are pretty smart and with-it for the most part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, I guess I should know better than to ask a science question on Boingboing,</p></blockquote>
<p>Usually the comments are better than this and the only problem you&#8217;d have is that someone would link you to lmgtfy for asking an easily googled question.  BB commenters are pretty smart and with-it for the most part.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568910</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568910</guid>
		<description>Assuming AGW gets as bad as it looks like it will...

not everyone will die.  Those that do will mostly die of starvation or thirst or be killed as a result of looting or warfare.  But yeah, generally agree with you otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming AGW gets as bad as it looks like it will&#8230;</p>
<p>not everyone will die.  Those that do will mostly die of starvation or thirst or be killed as a result of looting or warfare.  But yeah, generally agree with you otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie Koerth-Baker</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568908</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie Koerth-Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568908</guid>
		<description>David, I&#039;ve heard that rhetoric, but I respectfully disagree with it. I think &quot;global warming&quot; misleads people about what to expect. Climate change is a hell of a lot more accurate, when it comes to the range of effects that people experience on the ground. 

I&#039;d use &quot;global weirding&quot;, but I think it&#039;s a bit too precious. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I&#8217;ve heard that rhetoric, but I respectfully disagree with it. I think &#8220;global warming&#8221; misleads people about what to expect. Climate change is a hell of a lot more accurate, when it comes to the range of effects that people experience on the ground. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d use &#8220;global weirding&#8221;, but I think it&#8217;s a bit too precious. </p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568906</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568906</guid>
		<description>Well, if the damage is already done then I don&#039;t see the harm in saying &quot;I told you so.&quot;  Hollow victory is better than none at all, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if the damage is already done then I don&#8217;t see the harm in saying &#8220;I told you so.&#8221;  Hollow victory is better than none at all, right?</p>
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		<title>By: digi_owl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568848</link>
		<dc:creator>digi_owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568848</guid>
		<description>Meh, why do we have to try and frame it in absolutes? Yes there is a natural cycle, but the magnitudes involved are likely influenced by modern human activity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meh, why do we have to try and frame it in absolutes? Yes there is a natural cycle, but the magnitudes involved are likely influenced by modern human activity.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568805</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568805</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re not those kind of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re not those kind of people.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568772</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 05:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568772</guid>
		<description>YES! Maggie Rocks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YES! Maggie Rocks!</p>
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		<title>By: oneSTARman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568720</link>
		<dc:creator>oneSTARman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568720</guid>
		<description>&quot;this retarding effect&quot; - must be what happens to Climate Change Deniers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;this retarding effect&#8221; &#8211; must be what happens to Climate Change Deniers</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: oneSTARman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568716</link>
		<dc:creator>oneSTARman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568716</guid>
		<description>It would seem it is PAST your Bedtime - You are Too Obtuse to be talking to the Grown-Ups</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would seem it is PAST your Bedtime &#8211; You are Too Obtuse to be talking to the Grown-Ups</p>
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		<title>By: AnthonyC</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568667</link>
		<dc:creator>AnthonyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 02:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568667</guid>
		<description>Somehow I don&#039;t think it would be helpful to tell such people that melting ice could shut down the gulf stream and make the UK colder...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow I don&#8217;t think it would be helpful to tell such people that melting ice could shut down the gulf stream and make the UK colder&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dioptase</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568618</link>
		<dc:creator>dioptase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 00:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568618</guid>
		<description>At one point in Earth&#039;s history, hurricanes didn&#039;t exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth.
Climate changed and now they do.
Therefor climate change causes hurricanes.

Wait, what was the time scale were were talking about again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At one point in Earth&#8217;s history, hurricanes didn&#8217;t exist: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth</a>.<br />
Climate changed and now they do.<br />
Therefor climate change causes hurricanes.</p>
<p>Wait, what was the time scale were were talking about again?</p>
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		<title>By: KWillets</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568599</link>
		<dc:creator>KWillets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568599</guid>
		<description>Well, I guess I should know better than to ask a science question on Boingboing, but I did manage to find a research paper that covers the same points:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2008/2008JD010561.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Muted precipitation increase in global warming simulations: A surface evaporation perspective&lt;/a&gt;

The abstract covers my concerns almost exactly:
&lt;blockquote&gt;A 90-year analysis of surface evaporation based on a standard bulk formula reveals that the following atmospheric changes act to slow down the increase in surface evaporation over ice-free oceans: surface relative humidity increases by 1.0%, surface stability, as measured by air-sea temperature difference, increases by 0.2 K, and surface wind speed decreases by 0.02 m/s. As a result of these changes, surface evaporation increases by only 2% per Kelvin of surface warming, rather than the 7%/K rate simulated for atmospheric moisture.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This is another concern I thought of, which they luckily cover as well:
&lt;blockquote&gt;owing to its thermal inertia, the ocean lags behind the atmospheric warming, and this retarding effect causes an increase in surface stability and relative humidity,
&lt;/blockquote&gt;That&#039;s essentially what wasn&#039;t clear -- relative humidity (actually the difference between RH and 100%) largely determines the evaporation rate, and RH decreases as temperature increases, unless more water is added, which is what is expected to happen, so nothing is clear at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I guess I should know better than to ask a science question on Boingboing, but I did manage to find a research paper that covers the same points:<br />
<a href="http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2008/2008JD010561.shtml" rel="nofollow">Muted precipitation increase in global warming simulations: A surface evaporation perspective</a></p>
<p>The abstract covers my concerns almost exactly:</p>
<blockquote><p>A 90-year analysis of surface evaporation based on a standard bulk formula reveals that the following atmospheric changes act to slow down the increase in surface evaporation over ice-free oceans: surface relative humidity increases by 1.0%, surface stability, as measured by air-sea temperature difference, increases by 0.2 K, and surface wind speed decreases by 0.02 m/s. As a result of these changes, surface evaporation increases by only 2% per Kelvin of surface warming, rather than the 7%/K rate simulated for atmospheric moisture.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is another concern I thought of, which they luckily cover as well:</p>
<blockquote><p>owing to its thermal inertia, the ocean lags behind the atmospheric warming, and this retarding effect causes an increase in surface stability and relative humidity,
</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s essentially what wasn&#8217;t clear &#8212; relative humidity (actually the difference between RH and 100%) largely determines the evaporation rate, and RH decreases as temperature increases, unless more water is added, which is what is expected to happen, so nothing is clear at all.</p>
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		<title>By: info</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568577</link>
		<dc:creator>info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568577</guid>
		<description>Sure, pals. So you want to jump through barbed hooks to be able to state that &quot;maybe, you know, it&#039;s not entirely global warming&#039;s fault&quot;. And I accept that.But - please - stop being stupid. Of course global warming has lots to do with this. Of course global warming is caused by human intervention, overindustrialization and lack of actual effort into moving to noncombustive power. And of course we&#039;re all gonna die sweating and drowning unless things change soon. Very soon.

End of story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, pals. So you want to jump through barbed hooks to be able to state that &#8220;maybe, you know, it&#8217;s not entirely global warming&#8217;s fault&#8221;. And I accept that.But &#8211; please &#8211; stop being stupid. Of course global warming has lots to do with this. Of course global warming is caused by human intervention, overindustrialization and lack of actual effort into moving to noncombustive power. And of course we&#8217;re all gonna die sweating and drowning unless things change soon. Very soon.</p>
<p>End of story.</p>
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		<title>By: craig hill</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568534</link>
		<dc:creator>craig hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568534</guid>
		<description>Hot air heats up water, no?  Is the water in puddles warm on a hot day, or cold?  When the heated air covers a huge area of any part of the globe, the oceans heat up!  When they do, the water evaporates!  The excessive water in the air causes turbulence, i.e., storms!  When the pot boils, is the water roiling???  It is in my pot!  The ocean temps in hurricanes is over 80 degrees!  There are huge swaths of the world&#039;s oceans now that are ALWAYS warm!  That&#039;s what global warming does, under pressure of the cap greenhouse gases creates above, keeping hot air compressed, and the oceans hotter!

To simulate, put a lid on your boiling pot of water!  THAT&#039;S the greenhouse gases stopping up the heat!  Note how it boils more and more violently!  It tries to push the lid off!  THAT&#039;S whatchacall the storms at present, and the storms to come!  

Global warming is EASY TO GET once your head isn&#039;t stopped up with lies, from dupes and dirty energy profiteers, claiming it doesn&#039;t exist!!!!!

Enjoy the storms, and get used to them!  They&#039;ll be growing in strength every year until the greenhouse gases we&#039;ve filled the atmosphere with dissipates in a century!  Of course, LONG before then the methane that is being released now, and which is 20 times more powerful than CO2, might kill us all first!

Thanks for being so stupid!   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hot air heats up water, no?  Is the water in puddles warm on a hot day, or cold?  When the heated air covers a huge area of any part of the globe, the oceans heat up!  When they do, the water evaporates!  The excessive water in the air causes turbulence, i.e., storms!  When the pot boils, is the water roiling???  It is in my pot!  The ocean temps in hurricanes is over 80 degrees!  There are huge swaths of the world&#8217;s oceans now that are ALWAYS warm!  That&#8217;s what global warming does, under pressure of the cap greenhouse gases creates above, keeping hot air compressed, and the oceans hotter!</p>
<p>To simulate, put a lid on your boiling pot of water!  THAT&#8217;S the greenhouse gases stopping up the heat!  Note how it boils more and more violently!  It tries to push the lid off!  THAT&#8217;S whatchacall the storms at present, and the storms to come!  </p>
<p>Global warming is EASY TO GET once your head isn&#8217;t stopped up with lies, from dupes and dirty energy profiteers, claiming it doesn&#8217;t exist!!!!!</p>
<p>Enjoy the storms, and get used to them!  They&#8217;ll be growing in strength every year until the greenhouse gases we&#8217;ve filled the atmosphere with dissipates in a century!  Of course, LONG before then the methane that is being released now, and which is 20 times more powerful than CO2, might kill us all first!</p>
<p>Thanks for being so stupid!   </p>
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		<title>By: rAMPANTiDIOCY</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568443</link>
		<dc:creator>rAMPANTiDIOCY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568443</guid>
		<description>Climate change and especially the term global abrupt climate change is a much more accurate representation of the phenomenon than is global warming. Global warming via the greenhouse effect may be the primary cause of the climate change but it is certainly not the whole picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Climate change and especially the term global abrupt climate change is a much more accurate representation of the phenomenon than is global warming. Global warming via the greenhouse effect may be the primary cause of the climate change but it is certainly not the whole picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Chloe P. H. Lewis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568328</link>
		<dc:creator>Chloe P. H. Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568328</guid>
		<description> Total airborne moisture is what counts when it falls down again, though -- last winters&#039; snow in the PNW &amp; north, deluges of rain in Irene and Sandy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Total airborne moisture is what counts when it falls down again, though &#8212; last winters&#8217; snow in the PNW &amp; north, deluges of rain in Irene and Sandy.</p>
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		<title>By: KWillets</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568283</link>
		<dc:creator>KWillets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568283</guid>
		<description>&quot;One thing that does seem clear is that warmer oceans (a la global warming) mean more evaporation&quot;.

That doesn&#039;t seem clear to me.  Is he saying there will be higher humidity, more moisture transport, or what?  I get that higher atmospheric temperature will increase airborne moisture by about 4%, but the relative humidity of the system will be about the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One thing that does seem clear is that warmer oceans (a la global warming) mean more evaporation&#8221;.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t seem clear to me.  Is he saying there will be higher humidity, more moisture transport, or what?  I get that higher atmospheric temperature will increase airborne moisture by about 4%, but the relative humidity of the system will be about the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/10/29/did-climate-change-cause-hurri.html#comment-1568269</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=190510#comment-1568269</guid>
		<description>Oh I didn&#039;t have any issue with the concept - in fact I smiled to myself when I read it!  I was just pointing out that it would be a hollow victory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I didn&#8217;t have any issue with the concept &#8211; in fact I smiled to myself when I read it!  I was just pointing out that it would be a hollow victory.</p>
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