Comments on: Kim Stanley Robinson's 2312: a novel that hints at what we might someday have (and lose) http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:48:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: pjcamp http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1573527 pjcamp Sat, 03 Nov 2012 21:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1573527  Everyone has their own preferences. I thought it was one of the stupidest stories I've ever read. In fact, since that book, Kim Stanley Robinson was transferred to the pile of authors who have to demonstrate they have done something worth reading. I won't just pick his work up by default any more. Kevin Drum also puts him in the category " books I finished that I wish I hadn't." http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006355.php and I have to agree. He hasn't really done anything interesting since the California trilogy.  Everyone has their own preferences. I thought it was one of the stupidest stories I’ve ever read. In fact, since that book, Kim Stanley Robinson was transferred to the pile of authors who have to demonstrate they have done something worth reading. I won’t just pick his work up by default any more. Kevin Drum also puts him in the category ” books I finished that I wish I hadn’t.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006355.php

and I have to agree. He hasn’t really done anything interesting since the California trilogy.

]]> By: rocketpjs http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1573440 rocketpjs Sat, 03 Nov 2012 18:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1573440  I thought that was a brilliant, but very hard to read book.  2312 is easier to read and much more brilliant.  I thought that was a brilliant, but very hard to read book.  2312 is easier to read and much more brilliant.

]]> By: AbleBakerCharlie http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569886 AbleBakerCharlie Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569886 Ah, Ann. Obstinate, furious, wonderful Ann. How much she annoyed me...until I loved her. It seems a pretty common refrain that KSR populates his books with "unlikeable" characters that still sit in a protagonist seat, and that this makes for rough reading- but that strikes me as immature  and somewhat missing the the point. All his difficult characters- Ann, Maya, Swan, Galileo, et al.,- are replaying the entire agony of humanity transforming itself -which is always his real story- in microcosm. External foes are easier to shoot without hitting yourself... Ah, Ann. Obstinate, furious, wonderful Ann. How much she annoyed me…until I loved her. It seems a pretty common refrain that KSR populates his books with “unlikeable” characters that still sit in a protagonist seat, and that this makes for rough reading- but that strikes me as immature  and somewhat missing the the point. All his difficult characters- Ann, Maya, Swan, Galileo, et al.,- are replaying the entire agony of humanity transforming itself -which is always his real story- in microcosm. External foes are easier to shoot without hitting yourself…

]]> By: ocker3 http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569828 ocker3 Wed, 31 Oct 2012 05:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569828  I think that's one of the key points they're trying to make, every with All of the crazy body mods the main character has, her actions seem quite understandable and modern.  I think that’s one of the key points they’re trying to make, every with All of the crazy body mods the main character has, her actions seem quite understandable and modern.

]]> By: pjcamp http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569703 pjcamp Wed, 31 Oct 2012 02:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569703 Yeah, maybe. But after The Years of Rice and Salt, Kim Stanley Robinson has a lot to answer for. Yeah, maybe.

But after The Years of Rice and Salt, Kim Stanley Robinson has a lot to answer for.

]]> By: Carl_Brutanananadilewski http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569627 Carl_Brutanananadilewski Wed, 31 Oct 2012 01:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569627 Haven't read the book yet, but I do have a copy for my Kindle, and was wondering if anybody can tell me how it compares to Schismatrix, which, for me, is the book that defines what humanity may evolve into across the solar system a few centuries down the road.  Haven’t read the book yet, but I do have a copy for my Kindle, and was wondering if anybody can tell me how it compares to Schismatrix, which, for me, is the book that defines what humanity may evolve into across the solar system a few centuries down the road. 

]]> By: Brad Zimmerman http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569483 Brad Zimmerman Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569483 I loved KSR's Antarctica.  My cat ended up being named Valorie after the character in the book. I loved KSR’s Antarctica.  My cat ended up being named Valorie after the character in the book.

]]> By: cetaceanplease http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569457 cetaceanplease Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:11:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569457 I did not care for it.  Aside from the whole hermaphrodite longevity thing that was inexplicably brought up dozens of times, the concepts lacked novelty.  I do not mind slow paced books (fan of Neal Stephenson), but virtually nothing happened until the last fifth of the book.  When events did occur, I didn't care.  The characters were all exceedingly unlikable. The cover art is great, but I do not recommend the words inside.  Just terrible. I did not care for it.  Aside from the whole hermaphrodite longevity thing that was inexplicably brought up dozens of times, the concepts lacked novelty.  I do not mind slow paced books (fan of Neal Stephenson), but virtually nothing happened until the last fifth of the book.  When events did occur, I didn’t care.  The characters were all exceedingly unlikable. The cover art is great, but I do not recommend the words inside.  Just terrible.

]]> By: Michael Smith http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569387 Michael Smith Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569387 Yes he fleshes out so many characters that there is somebody for every reader to identify with. I particularly liked the chapters which focused on Ann Clayborne as she battled the polar bear, the long runout and herself. Yes he fleshes out so many characters that there is somebody for every reader to identify with. I particularly liked the chapters which focused on Ann Clayborne as she battled the polar bear, the long runout and herself.

]]> By: Michael Smith http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569379 Michael Smith Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569379 My sister in law loved Escape from Kathmandu. She has no interest in science fiction but loved the fun stories set in Nepal. My sister in law loved Escape from Kathmandu. She has no interest in science fiction but loved the fun stories set in Nepal.

]]> By: Michael Smith http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569341 Michael Smith Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569341 So this is Blue Mars part two? So this is Blue Mars part two?

]]> By: Kevin Carson http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569154 Kevin Carson Tue, 30 Oct 2012 20:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569154 Great review, Cory. I loved the book myself. One minor quibble, though: the story isn't actually set in the future of the Red Mars trilogy. Mars was terraformed in a manner similar to the timeline in RM, but it's a different sotry. The 2312 scenario, generally speaking, sets the manned exploration of the Solar System considerably later and slower than in RM. Great review, Cory. I loved the book myself. One minor quibble, though: the story isn’t actually set in the future of the Red Mars trilogy. Mars was terraformed in a manner similar to the timeline in RM, but it’s a different sotry. The 2312 scenario, generally speaking, sets the manned exploration of the Solar System considerably later and slower than in RM.

]]> By: Lobster http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569148 Lobster Tue, 30 Oct 2012 20:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569148 I'm just happy to see more fiction on Boingboing that's intended for adult adults (AA?).  ...This isn't another YA, is it? I’m just happy to see more fiction on Boingboing that’s intended for adult adults (AA?).  …This isn’t another YA, is it?

]]> By: signsofrain http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569121 signsofrain Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569121 No I'm thinking more "From A Buick 8" - I see your point though... plenty of King stories have glacier-slow pacing. Maybe I should have said Crichton. He gets right to the point doesn't he? No I’m thinking more “From A Buick 8″ – I see your point though… plenty of King stories have glacier-slow pacing. Maybe I should have said Crichton. He gets right to the point doesn’t he?

]]> By: AbleBakerCharlie http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569073 AbleBakerCharlie Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569073 2312 didn't have the punch for me that the Mars trilogy did- I suspect that the higher stakes of the First Hundred tickled my amygdala a bit more vigorously. But "less punch" should in no way indicate anything other than "KSR in fabulous form and you should read it right now and then go discuss its wonders with friends. Preferably outdoors." He just gets so many things right. He's a top notch wordsmith. He manages a sense of there-ness that eludes a lot of SF that's either action or contemplative ideas in some kind of vacuum- the temperaments of places and the people that fill them aren't just relevant to the stories- they are the stories. He tells ecological fables without the karmic fatalism of the post apocalypse, and technological fables without the antiseptic triumphalism of Golden Age SF. He can write weirdos and guide you from finding them abrasive to finding them vital. His genetically engineered posthumans like sleeping outdoors and howling at the moon. What more could you need? 2312 didn’t have the punch for me that the Mars trilogy did- I suspect that the higher stakes of the First Hundred tickled my amygdala a bit more vigorously. But “less punch” should in no way indicate anything other than “KSR in fabulous form and you should read it right now and then go discuss its wonders with friends. Preferably outdoors.”

He just gets so many things right. He’s a top notch wordsmith. He manages a sense of there-ness that eludes a lot of SF that’s either action or contemplative ideas in some kind of vacuum- the temperaments of places and the people that fill them aren’t just relevant to the stories- they are the stories. He tells ecological fables without the karmic fatalism of the post apocalypse, and technological fables without the antiseptic triumphalism of Golden Age SF. He can write weirdos and guide you from finding them abrasive to finding them vital. His genetically engineered posthumans like sleeping outdoors and howling at the moon. What more could you need?

]]> By: Michael Langford http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569062 Michael Langford Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569062 I think I'd enjoy playing Microscope with KSR more than reading his books  http://www.lamemage.com/ <=description of game about history I think I’d enjoy playing Microscope with KSR more than reading his books  http://www.lamemage.com/ <=description of game about history

]]> By: Kaleberg http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1569008 Kaleberg Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1569008 It reminds me of JBS Haldane's essay on the future of human biology with different genetic variations optimized for the different planets. It's a fascinating and, at points, pretty chilling essay. It reminds me of JBS Haldane’s essay on the future of human biology with different genetic variations optimized for the different planets. It’s a fascinating and, at points, pretty chilling essay.

]]> By: Roscoe http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568986 Roscoe Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568986 I'm reading this right now, being pleasantly suprised to see it on the library shelf last week - and I think it's pure AWESOMENESS!  KSR is one of my favorite authors, and I'm enjoying this book so much.  He has a great sense for long view perspective (obviously, as Cory mentioned about Years of Rice and Salt).  As usual, it's the details that make it so great - multiple space elevators on earth, the way Terminator moves across the surface of Mercury using the expansion of its tracks...  all great stuff! I’m reading this right now, being pleasantly suprised to see it on the library shelf last week – and I think it’s pure AWESOMENESS!  KSR is one of my favorite authors, and I’m enjoying this book so much.  He has a great sense for long view perspective (obviously, as Cory mentioned about Years of Rice and Salt).  As usual, it’s the details that make it so great – multiple space elevators on earth, the way Terminator moves across the surface of Mercury using the expansion of its tracks…  all great stuff!

]]> By: TheOven http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568967 TheOven Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568967 Steven King's pacing is so slow it often goes backwards. Surely you're not saying this is slower than The Gunslinger series? Steven King’s pacing is so slow it often goes backwards. Surely you’re not saying this is slower than The Gunslinger series?

]]> By: signsofrain http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568932 signsofrain Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568932 2312 has a lot more joy and a lot less technician. The reason being that Swan is an environmental designer and the technical details are no longer interesting to her. She likes to "go native" in these engineered environments and live off the land, so the descriptions are a lot more poetic and evocative and a lot less scientific. 2312 has a lot more joy and a lot less technician. The reason being that Swan is an environmental designer and the technical details are no longer interesting to her. She likes to “go native” in these engineered environments and live off the land, so the descriptions are a lot more poetic and evocative and a lot less scientific.

]]> By: signsofrain http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568930 signsofrain Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568930 Oooh, yeah, Antarctica would be a great starting book (I wish Robinson had revisited those characters!) it's full of fun stuff. (I especially like the ice slide/hot tub scene) Also, second on Robinson being a mind blower. His books are required reading for anyone who likes to think about what the post-capitalist world might look like. Also, his approach to sexuality in Martian/spacer culture is really interesting. (and kinda hot ;) Oooh, yeah, Antarctica would be a great starting book (I wish Robinson had revisited those characters!) it’s full of fun stuff. (I especially like the ice slide/hot tub scene)

Also, second on Robinson being a mind blower. His books are required reading for anyone who likes to think about what the post-capitalist world might look like.

Also, his approach to sexuality in Martian/spacer culture is really interesting. (and kinda hot ;)

]]> By: Jorpho http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568907 Jorpho Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568907 <blockquote>His descriptions of the "natural" and geoengineered environments are worthy of Thoreau, filled with an environmental lyricism that is hard to come by. </blockquote>Is that what you'd say about Red Mars as well? One of several major reasons I did not care much at all for Red Mars was the endless long, tiresome, meandering, and seemingly pointless digressions into descriptions of the minutae of the landscape.

His descriptions of the “natural” and geoengineered environments are worthy of Thoreau, filled with an environmental lyricism that is hard to come by.

Is that what you’d say about Red Mars as well?

One of several major reasons I did not care much at all for Red Mars was the endless long, tiresome, meandering, and seemingly pointless digressions into descriptions of the minutae of the landscape.

]]> By: Festus http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568903 Festus Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568903  I like Antarctica for newbies. For me, the Mars Trilogy was ideal. But Antarctica is even more plausible, and the biotech/GM angles are much less speculative than in his offworld stuff. By the way, Robinson is one of the few writers I read who blows my mind with every new book. Kudos to Cory for this review.  I like Antarctica for newbies. For me, the Mars Trilogy was ideal. But Antarctica is even more plausible, and the biotech/GM angles are much less speculative than in his offworld stuff.

By the way, Robinson is one of the few writers I read who blows my mind with every new book. Kudos to Cory for this review.

]]> By: Lexicat http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568901 Lexicat Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568901 Years of Rice and Salt was fun. Some weaknesses in the last chunk of the book, but a delightful narrative structure likely to be unfamiliar to Westerners. Years of Rice and Salt was fun. Some weaknesses in the last chunk of the book, but a delightful narrative structure likely to be unfamiliar to Westerners.

]]> By: Andrew French http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568895 Andrew French Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568895 I read it about 6 months ago, I thought it was very interesting and exciting throughout the first 2/3s. But the time the I read the last 1/3 I wasn't as engrossed. Overall though, absolutely ambitious and fascinating. I feel like the characters were not developed as much as they could be, sort of 2-D, except for the two mains. I can see that his writing strength is in his vivid and realistic depictions of the scenery and technology of the future. I read it about 6 months ago, I thought it was very interesting and exciting throughout the first 2/3s. But the time the I read the last 1/3 I wasn’t as engrossed. Overall though, absolutely ambitious and fascinating. I feel like the characters were not developed as much as they could be, sort of 2-D, except for the two mains. I can see that his writing strength is in his vivid and realistic depictions of the scenery and technology of the future.

]]> By: andygates http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568890 andygates Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568890 The mention in passing of Manhattan as the New Venice ("most people thought the flooding had actually improved the city") rang a chord last night. The mention in passing of Manhattan as the New Venice (“most people thought the flooding had actually improved the city”) rang a chord last night.

]]> By: Ashley Reid http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568885 Ashley Reid Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568885 @signsofrain: This was my first time reading Robinson and I would agree - I was actually expecting a less accessible narrative based on what I'd heard about him. @signsofrain: This was my first time reading Robinson and I would agree – I was actually expecting a less accessible narrative based on what I’d heard about him.

]]> By: Ashley Reid http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568883 Ashley Reid Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568883 The audiobook narration for this one was excellent, and it was nice to find a book with such a stately pace and an absorbing narrative. The audiobook narration for this one was excellent, and it was nice to find a book with such a stately pace and an absorbing narrative.

]]> By: signsofrain http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568882 signsofrain Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568882 I thought that it definitely wasn't as strongly plotted as the Mars books, but Wahram and Swan are two excellently rendered characters. I very much enjoyed this book and it might be a good introduction to Robinson for someone who hasn't read him before. (In my experience from lending the books out, people find Red Mars hard to get into unless they are already pretty big sci-fi fans or geologists.) Curious for the Robinson readers in this thread... what's your opinion, what's the best book to give a Robinson newb? I'd vote for A Short Sharp Shock (that one sucks you in and it's not too dense) or (you guessed it) 40 Signs of Rain, the first book of the Science in the Capital series, which has immediately relatable, very likeable characters. People accustomed to Stephen King pacing will find the books a bit slow but the unfolding story is very, very meaty. I thought that it definitely wasn’t as strongly plotted as the Mars books, but Wahram and Swan are two excellently rendered characters. I very much enjoyed this book and it might be a good introduction to Robinson for someone who hasn’t read him before. (In my experience from lending the books out, people find Red Mars hard to get into unless they are already pretty big sci-fi fans or geologists.)

Curious for the Robinson readers in this thread… what’s your opinion, what’s the best book to give a Robinson newb? I’d vote for A Short Sharp Shock (that one sucks you in and it’s not too dense) or (you guessed it) 40 Signs of Rain, the first book of the Science in the Capital series, which has immediately relatable, very likeable characters. People accustomed to Stephen King pacing will find the books a bit slow but the unfolding story is very, very meaty.

]]> By: Ian McMurtrie http://boingboing.net/2012/10/30/kim-stanley-robinsons-23.html#comment-1568879 Ian McMurtrie Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=190833#comment-1568879 Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Cory. Will run out and order now! KSR can do no wrong ;) Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Cory. Will run out and order now!

KSR can do no wrong ;)

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