Comments on: Intel to Boy Scouts: no more donations if you don't drop anti-gay policy

By: Marc Mielke

Marc Mielke — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:36:00 +0000

JESUS Inside! With pre-installed censorware and a hotlink to Conservapedia! And pre-installed gay porn on a hidden partition! (Wait…what?)

By: Marc Mielke

Marc Mielke — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:34:00 +0000

I don’t think atheists are any less able to molest children than the religious. I don’t see how some silly belief in a sky fairy gives a person special sodomy powers.

By: Marc Mielke

Marc Mielke — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:32:00 +0000

Some divisions (I don’t know how large, I think one was called the Northern Star or something) have announced anti-discrimination policies in their zone, so it’s not completely impossible. Might make those larger group meetings somewhat uncomfortable, though.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:57:00 +0000

The only way that the BSA is going to have a positive and supportive leadership is if you execute the current leadership in a coup.

By: styrofoam

styrofoam — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:01:00 +0000

So best to let the LGBT adolescent join the Scouting ranks and have no chance of finding a positive and supportive leadership?

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:07:00 +0000

The trouble is that this is exactly the kind of scenario that leads to so many LGBT adolescents committing suicide. They hit the wall of despair, and no amount of personal and local support can fix it for some of them.

By: styrofoam

styrofoam — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:41:00 +0000

Then maybe we can have a talk and discuss about what options we find ourselves with at that particular crossroads. Right now, I’d be inclined to say that I’d encourage him to not lie, and I’d be willing to resign. This goes for whether it was one of my children, or one of the boys in the troop. (Men at that point, but it seems awfully far away.)

I can’t remember the exact wording of a release by the BSA this year, but it was something along the lines of “A majority of those involved in scouting support this decision,” I was furious, and considered resigning. I certainly hadn’t been consulted.

One of the things that prevented me was wondering, “If I resign, then that’s one less person opposed to the decision.” Does surrendering an organization to the ones you disagree with make an effective policy?

The Minnesota council also responded with a non-discriminatory policy, but I’m not sure how well it’d hold up if the national council decided to crack down. If there’s nobody to speak passionately for it, I’m sure my council would fold.

By: Martijn Vos

Martijn Vos — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:48:00 +0000

What I don’t understand is why the far more tolerant and positive Girl Scouts don’t simply open themselves up to boys and become The Scouts. Let’s make the BSA irrelevant.

By: GlyphGryph

GlyphGryph — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:42:00 +0000

It’s just the American one, which thankfully has nothing to do with the other national organizations that share it’s name.

By: GlyphGryph

GlyphGryph — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:41:00 +0000

Boy Scouts America are an American company and are already unaffiliated with the Scouts in other countries, aren’t they?

By: GlyphGryph

GlyphGryph — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:40:00 +0000

Unfortunately, the Scouts are a top-down organization – how can there be change from within if the leadership never recognizes it or promotes those who do?

You can manage dissent from within, but change? That seems unlikely.

By: GlyphGryph

GlyphGryph — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:37:00 +0000

A couple others are already doing fairly well – I wonder which will end up rising to prominence?

By: EH

EH — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:51:00 +0000

All recipients of Department of Education and HUD money are required to provide equal access to their facilities to the Boy Scouts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Access_to_governmental_resources

By: chris coreline

chris coreline — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:00:00 +0000

the downside to PC burning is that the resultant cloud of toxic fumes will kill regardless of political skew.

By: Boundegar

Boundegar — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:18:00 +0000

Some enterprising huckster is sure to build a PC clone and slap a red-state sticker on it. Maybe one of those fish logos. Hate Inside.

By: Eric Rucker

Eric Rucker — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:46:00 +0000

Sounds like it’s time for a competing secular, nondiscriminatory scouting organization?

By: peregrinus

peregrinus — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:45:00 +0000

Affirm that $300 m figure – data for 2010:
http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/children-and-youth/boy-scouts-of-america-in-irving-tx-1120/financialNote the $72m line on “net investment gain” – taking S&P as a benchmark, which returned 15% in 2010, the scouts have around $500m in investments. Wow.I wonder if they have an investment policy that excludes organisations that have any kind of pro-gay position? Or do they profit from the pink dollar?wtf $1m for the head honcho of scouting?? For an organisation hell-bent on reliving the medaevil crusades??For an organisation that incubated 2,000 known paedophile scout leaders between 1971 and 1991?? http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-10-11/news/34393339_1_perversion-files-bsa-spokesman-deron-smith-release-files ffs, where are the kids meant to be safe?

By: Eric Rucker

Eric Rucker — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:41:00 +0000

Actually, I live in a heavily Republican area, and there’s plenty of iDevices to go around. (Not many Macs, though.)

But, if it’s a Mac, and it’s newer than a G5, it has to be burned, by the “burn all Intel products” metric. Intel inside. ;)

By: Jeremy Hill

Jeremy Hill — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:41:00 +0000

As an Eagle Scout myself who grew up in a very open troop, I salute your desire to change things from within.

By: Jake0748

Jake0748 — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:15:00 +0000

How is that? You have facts and figures?

By: Adam Sheinhaus

Adam Sheinhaus — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 04:14:00 +0000

Two thumbs way up for Intel. Good for them.

By: Hanglyman

Hanglyman — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 03:33:00 +0000

I’m guessing they’re going to resist any change whatsoever, kicking and screaming the whole way down into obscurity as other, more sensible organizations take their place. I have fond memories of when I was a scout, but those kind of experiences can easily be replicated and improved upon by people who aren’t steeped in religious fundamentalism.

By: foobar

foobar — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 03:14:00 +0000

Or bigamy.

By: taj

taj — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 03:07:00 +0000

iCowboy, I like your thinking. Reminds me of South Africa in the 80s (when I first became aware of world politics).

By: taj

taj — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 03:04:00 +0000

Please tell me this is just the American boy scouts who discriminate against gay and atheist members. The originals in Britain don’t, do they? Or the scouts of Canada?

A moment’s googling leads me to relief:
“Homosexual people are not restricted from membership or leadership positions in Scouts Canada, Scouts Australia, and most European associations, including The Scout Association of the United Kingdom, Ring deutscher Pfadfinderverbände of Germany (German Scout Federation), and the Swedish Guide and Scout Association.[9]“

By: iCowboy

iCowboy — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 03:01:00 +0000

Does anyone know if any non-American scouting associations have broken off relations with the American association over their bigoted policies on religion and sexuality. Exchanges and jamborees are a big part of scouting and the American leaders might start reconsidering if they were boycotted by the rest of the world.

By: foobar

foobar — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 03:01:00 +0000

They’re not a private organization; they’re publicly funded.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 02:29:00 +0000

And when one of your scouts, who signed up when he was a child, figures out that he’s gay and that he has to lie to get his badge?

By: cjporkchop

cjporkchop — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 02:20:00 +0000

It’s great that your particular den doesn’t discriminate, but when it comes time for a gay or atheist scout to earn Eagle Scout status, the national organization won’t award it if the scout is open and honest about who he is.

You wear the uniform of that organization. You promote that organization. You are serving that organization.

Personally, I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I were in your position.

Ever looked for alternatives to the Boy Scouts?

By: cjporkchop

cjporkchop — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 02:11:00 +0000

Some Boy Scouts sell things. I think it depends on the troop.

In at least some parts of Oklahoma, Boy Scouts sell really overpriced popcorn.

In SoCal, I’ve seen them outside grocery stores selling Christmas greenery.

When approached, I carefully explain that I won’t give money to Boy Scouts because the national organization discriminates against gays and atheists. Some troops here in SoCal claim that their individual troop doesn’t discriminate, but I point out that money still goes to the national organization, and that it’s the national organization that’s refused to award Eagle Scout status to scouts that would otherwise qualify.