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	<title>Comments on: Airlines and obese fliers: is there a better way to handle seat space&#160;conflict?</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Mya Lewis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1586157</link>
		<dc:creator>Mya Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1586157</guid>
		<description>It once used to be true that merely asking for exit row seating would assure you of it, but this tip has been so often passed around that it&#039;s nearly impossible to obtain it unless you are one of the first passengers to check in for your flight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It once used to be true that merely asking for exit row seating would assure you of it, but this tip has been so often passed around that it&#8217;s nearly impossible to obtain it unless you are one of the first passengers to check in for your flight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ipo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584818</link>
		<dc:creator>Ipo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584818</guid>
		<description> No I don&#039;t at all think that.  
I think it&#039;s terrible y&#039;all get squeezed into those seats.  
But it isn&#039;t the fault of the skinny person sitting next to you, who paid for the seat he is now sharing with you.  Don&#039;t be angry at her/him, he has nothing to do with what you eat or your medical condition.  
Your beef is with some corporation.  Not with the skinny aesthetic morality of the privileged thin a-holes.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> No I don&#8217;t at all think that. <br />
I think it&#8217;s terrible y&#8217;all get squeezed into those seats. <br />
But it isn&#8217;t the fault of the skinny person sitting next to you, who paid for the seat he is now sharing with you.  Don&#8217;t be angry at her/him, he has nothing to do with what you eat or your medical condition. <br />
Your beef is with some corporation.  Not with the skinny aesthetic morality of the privileged thin a-holes.  </p>
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		<title>By: Tavie</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584755</link>
		<dc:creator>Tavie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584755</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.obesitymyths.com/index.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Start here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and try &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/health/08cont.html?hp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nourishingconnections.com/Handouts/The%20Epidemology%20of%20Overweight%20and%20Obesity_Moral%20Panic_Campos%20et%20al_IJE_2006.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bigfatfacts.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.obesitymyths.com/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">Start here</a> and <a href="http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and try <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/08/health/08cont.html?hp" rel="nofollow">this</a> and <a href="http://www.nourishingconnections.com/Handouts/The%20Epidemology%20of%20Overweight%20and%20Obesity_Moral%20Panic_Campos%20et%20al_IJE_2006.pdf" rel="nofollow">this</a> and <a href="http://www.bigfatfacts.com/" rel="nofollow">this</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: kromelizard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584724</link>
		<dc:creator>kromelizard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584724</guid>
		<description>Exactly which science is this that doesn&#039;t point to the increased average weight of Americans arising from an increased per capita consumption of food and a decrease in rates of physical activity?

The Economist article waves vaguely at some unspecified correlations observed by neuroscience and implies a causative relationship. They say the brains of the obese react differently to food, ergo their obesity is an involuntary physiological response. It is equally, if not more, likely that the deleterious food related behaviors of the obese have rewired their neurological response to food. Their brains react differently because they&#039;ve been trained to, much like a substance abuser or gambler&#039;s brain develops a different response to those substances and behaviors. 

There&#039;s not any scientific support for the conclusion presented in the article that obesity is most frequently an involuntarily acquired physical condition, and population statistics would militate against it. The increase in obesity in the past twenty years cannot reasonably be ascribed to any genetic differences because population genetics cannot change that quickly. So the change HAS to be cultural/behavioral or environmental. Saying obesity rates increase because of an acquired medical condition is essentially the same as saying poor populations have more drunks because of some unknown medical malady, and not because they&#039;re poor and desperate and have little else to do but drink until they&#039;re insensible to how desperate their condition really is.

One of the prime difficulties with formulating an appropriate reaction to this problem is this absurd focus on whether or not obesity is involuntary or evidence of a character flaw, as if fixing that question one way or the other will solve the problem. 1) Of course it is not an involuntary physiological condition. There is no good population level science leading to any other conclusion than Americans eat too fucking much and sit on their asses all the time. You can only come to a physiological conclusion by focusing on small, carefully selected populations. 2) Moral harangues leveled at individuals are not a good solution to public health problems. Yes, that fat-ass eats too damn much and that&#039;s why his corpulence overflows the borders of his seat, but if you want to fix a population level problem you need population level solutions. You need better food regulations e.g. rearranging food subsidies to lower the cost of quality food and increase the cost of processed junk, legally mandating portion control on the  food service industry, providing better public education on nutrition, decreasing the work week to afford more leisure time for physical activity, providing more public space to engage in that activity.

Of course, all of those solutions would negatively affect corporate profits, whereas a medical response, like you support is an awfully sexy option for the medical-industrial complex. If obesity is considered to always be a condition to be medically treated across the whole population, then that is a truly massive (pun intended) new profit center for them. But this is not a problem with medical origins, they&#039;re purely social and economic. Food is cheap in the U.S., selling twice as much of it for maybe a 20% increase in revenue is a huge boon to big agribusiness, and is in fact the only real path to the kind of growth required of a publicly traded, for-profit company. So the food industry does whatever it can to get Americans to buy more food. Restaurants market larger portions as a selling point and processed food companies spike their product with as much sugar and salt as they can. At most low to mid priced food service businesses it&#039;s no longer even possible to order a reasonable portion size at a reasonable price. As has been noted recently in NYC, a small soda has somehow become a pint with the large sizes hovering around a full quart of sugar-water. 

The thing is, and why I cannot stand these arguments that obesity is an involuntary medical condition: when you focus on medically treating obesity, you&#039;re really just aiding the wonderful capitalist practice of selling people both the problem and the solution. It is not a problem with a medical origin. It&#039;s like saying cholera is a medical problem with a medical solution. It&#039;s not, it&#039;s a water supply and sewage treatment problem with a water supply and water treatment solution. Obesity is a food-supply problem and needs a food-supply solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly which science is this that doesn&#8217;t point to the increased average weight of Americans arising from an increased per capita consumption of food and a decrease in rates of physical activity?</p>
<p>The Economist article waves vaguely at some unspecified correlations observed by neuroscience and implies a causative relationship. They say the brains of the obese react differently to food, ergo their obesity is an involuntary physiological response. It is equally, if not more, likely that the deleterious food related behaviors of the obese have rewired their neurological response to food. Their brains react differently because they&#8217;ve been trained to, much like a substance abuser or gambler&#8217;s brain develops a different response to those substances and behaviors. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s not any scientific support for the conclusion presented in the article that obesity is most frequently an involuntarily acquired physical condition, and population statistics would militate against it. The increase in obesity in the past twenty years cannot reasonably be ascribed to any genetic differences because population genetics cannot change that quickly. So the change HAS to be cultural/behavioral or environmental. Saying obesity rates increase because of an acquired medical condition is essentially the same as saying poor populations have more drunks because of some unknown medical malady, and not because they&#8217;re poor and desperate and have little else to do but drink until they&#8217;re insensible to how desperate their condition really is.</p>
<p>One of the prime difficulties with formulating an appropriate reaction to this problem is this absurd focus on whether or not obesity is involuntary or evidence of a character flaw, as if fixing that question one way or the other will solve the problem. 1) Of course it is not an involuntary physiological condition. There is no good population level science leading to any other conclusion than Americans eat too fucking much and sit on their asses all the time. You can only come to a physiological conclusion by focusing on small, carefully selected populations. 2) Moral harangues leveled at individuals are not a good solution to public health problems. Yes, that fat-ass eats too damn much and that&#8217;s why his corpulence overflows the borders of his seat, but if you want to fix a population level problem you need population level solutions. You need better food regulations e.g. rearranging food subsidies to lower the cost of quality food and increase the cost of processed junk, legally mandating portion control on the  food service industry, providing better public education on nutrition, decreasing the work week to afford more leisure time for physical activity, providing more public space to engage in that activity.</p>
<p>Of course, all of those solutions would negatively affect corporate profits, whereas a medical response, like you support is an awfully sexy option for the medical-industrial complex. If obesity is considered to always be a condition to be medically treated across the whole population, then that is a truly massive (pun intended) new profit center for them. But this is not a problem with medical origins, they&#8217;re purely social and economic. Food is cheap in the U.S., selling twice as much of it for maybe a 20% increase in revenue is a huge boon to big agribusiness, and is in fact the only real path to the kind of growth required of a publicly traded, for-profit company. So the food industry does whatever it can to get Americans to buy more food. Restaurants market larger portions as a selling point and processed food companies spike their product with as much sugar and salt as they can. At most low to mid priced food service businesses it&#8217;s no longer even possible to order a reasonable portion size at a reasonable price. As has been noted recently in NYC, a small soda has somehow become a pint with the large sizes hovering around a full quart of sugar-water. </p>
<p>The thing is, and why I cannot stand these arguments that obesity is an involuntary medical condition: when you focus on medically treating obesity, you&#8217;re really just aiding the wonderful capitalist practice of selling people both the problem and the solution. It is not a problem with a medical origin. It&#8217;s like saying cholera is a medical problem with a medical solution. It&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s a water supply and sewage treatment problem with a water supply and water treatment solution. Obesity is a food-supply problem and needs a food-supply solution.</p>
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		<title>By: dnebdal</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584484</link>
		<dc:creator>dnebdal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584484</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if &quot;causes medical problems&quot; is a good criteria for something being a medical condition itself. (It would make &quot;working with the wrong chemicals&quot; a medical condition, for one thing.)

Agreed on the rest, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if &#8220;causes medical problems&#8221; is a good criteria for something being a medical condition itself. (It would make &#8220;working with the wrong chemicals&#8221; a medical condition, for one thing.)</p>
<p>Agreed on the rest, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Deidzoeb</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584449</link>
		<dc:creator>Deidzoeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584449</guid>
		<description>What was I thinking. Of course it makes sense for the airlines to want a waist measurement confirmed by a doctor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What was I thinking. Of course it makes sense for the airlines to want a waist measurement confirmed by a doctor.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerril</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584332</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584332</guid>
		<description>I pointed out why I&#039;m fat upthread, which can make me look like someone saying &quot;I&#039;m a &#039;good&#039; fat person!&quot;. That certainly wasn&#039;t my point.

For clarity, I don&#039;t believe in &quot;bad&quot; obese people. Everyone where you can&#039;t point to the reason why their body is fucked up is just someone where you can&#039;t point to the reason why their body is fucked up &lt;i&gt;yet&lt;/i&gt;. My point was that I&#039;m evidence that fatness &lt;i&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; linked to the sins of gluttony and sloth, nor is thinness linked to the virtues of industry and restraint. Other folks who don&#039;t have evidential links as to cause are just medical mysteries right now.

We used to think that bad things happening to you was a sign that you were being punished by God for some secret sin or moral failing. Now... well, we believe that bad things happening to you is &lt;i&gt;probably&lt;/i&gt; a sign that you&#039;re being punished by an abstract moral force (or God) for some secret sin or moral failing.

Cancer patients are mostly exempted from the &quot;bad shit is happening to you for a reason&quot; clause, along with some victims of crime, some accident victims, and some people who get sick (sometimes - sometimes you got sick &quot;because you don&#039;t take good care of yourself&quot;). Some parts of society are willing to accept that some people in poor economic situations didn&#039;t do it to themselves, so that&#039;s another advancement. I can&#039;t think of many other cases yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pointed out why I&#8217;m fat upthread, which can make me look like someone saying &#8220;I&#8217;m a &#8216;good&#8217; fat person!&#8221;. That certainly wasn&#8217;t my point.</p>
<p>For clarity, I don&#8217;t believe in &#8220;bad&#8221; obese people. Everyone where you can&#8217;t point to the reason why their body is fucked up is just someone where you can&#8217;t point to the reason why their body is fucked up <i>yet</i>. My point was that I&#8217;m evidence that fatness <i>isn&#8217;t</i> linked to the sins of gluttony and sloth, nor is thinness linked to the virtues of industry and restraint. Other folks who don&#8217;t have evidential links as to cause are just medical mysteries right now.</p>
<p>We used to think that bad things happening to you was a sign that you were being punished by God for some secret sin or moral failing. Now&#8230; well, we believe that bad things happening to you is <i>probably</i> a sign that you&#8217;re being punished by an abstract moral force (or God) for some secret sin or moral failing.</p>
<p>Cancer patients are mostly exempted from the &#8220;bad shit is happening to you for a reason&#8221; clause, along with some victims of crime, some accident victims, and some people who get sick (sometimes &#8211; sometimes you got sick &#8220;because you don&#8217;t take good care of yourself&#8221;). Some parts of society are willing to accept that some people in poor economic situations didn&#8217;t do it to themselves, so that&#8217;s another advancement. I can&#8217;t think of many other cases yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerril</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584322</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584322</guid>
		<description> @NathanHornby:disqus  : 

You know why I&#039;m fat? Because I had to start progesterone at the age of 12 due to crippling dysmenhorreah, which gave me an artificial hormone imbalance (weight gain) and stimulated the broadening of my hips early and dramatically (big booty even without weight gain). There&#039;s a LOT of other people who got that one naturally - not everyone is a slim hipped nordic supermodel.
And because I am at least the third generation in my family with severe chemical depression - which causes weight gain and tends to destroy attempts to get your shit together and lose weight, which is a cruel combination. This causes a vicious cycle of feeling shit about your body, which makes you more miserable, which leads to a slower metabolism, which leads to feeling more shit about your body, etc.
And most of the medication for depression causes... weight gain.

Obese people have actual measurable hormonal problems other than sex hormones - all kinds of crap messes up your metabolic rate, and all kinds of crap seems to mess up the hormones your body uses to regulate your desire for food (which are a pretty fancy-pants system that operates at a level far more basal than &quot;willpower&quot; or &quot;rational thought&quot;).

Fat people aren&#039;t fat because we&#039;re stupid fat slobs who deserve to be fat because we&#039;re weak and disgusting. The attitude that we&#039;re like this because we can&#039;t be arsed to change, or don&#039;t deserve to change because of moral failings? Bullcrap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> @NathanHornby:disqus  : </p>
<p>You know why I&#8217;m fat? Because I had to start progesterone at the age of 12 due to crippling dysmenhorreah, which gave me an artificial hormone imbalance (weight gain) and stimulated the broadening of my hips early and dramatically (big booty even without weight gain). There&#8217;s a LOT of other people who got that one naturally &#8211; not everyone is a slim hipped nordic supermodel.<br />
And because I am at least the third generation in my family with severe chemical depression &#8211; which causes weight gain and tends to destroy attempts to get your shit together and lose weight, which is a cruel combination. This causes a vicious cycle of feeling shit about your body, which makes you more miserable, which leads to a slower metabolism, which leads to feeling more shit about your body, etc.<br />
And most of the medication for depression causes&#8230; weight gain.</p>
<p>Obese people have actual measurable hormonal problems other than sex hormones &#8211; all kinds of crap messes up your metabolic rate, and all kinds of crap seems to mess up the hormones your body uses to regulate your desire for food (which are a pretty fancy-pants system that operates at a level far more basal than &#8220;willpower&#8221; or &#8220;rational thought&#8221;).</p>
<p>Fat people aren&#8217;t fat because we&#8217;re stupid fat slobs who deserve to be fat because we&#8217;re weak and disgusting. The attitude that we&#8217;re like this because we can&#8217;t be arsed to change, or don&#8217;t deserve to change because of moral failings? Bullcrap.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerril</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584312</guid>
		<description> I believe it&#039;s called a tape measure. It wouldn&#039;t take too long with one to determine my hips are more than 15&quot; across, that&#039;s for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I believe it&#8217;s called a tape measure. It wouldn&#8217;t take too long with one to determine my hips are more than 15&#8243; across, that&#8217;s for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerril</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584313</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584313</guid>
		<description> ... fitting into a seat makes you fat? What?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> &#8230; fitting into a seat makes you fat? What?</p>
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		<title>By: girlalive</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584249</link>
		<dc:creator>girlalive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584249</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the flights had been oversold and crowded it would be your seat neighbours having to suck it up and be squished.&quot;  So you honestly think that fat people ENJOY not fitting in the seat?  That we like keeping our arms folded in front of us for six or eight hours at a time because we don&#039;t want to get in your way?  Do you think we enjoy having to be pressed up against some skinny a-hole who is throwing dirty looks, or even insults, at us through the entire flight?  We are human beings and we do not enjoy the crowded conditions any more than thin people do.  We are not just an inconvenient piece of oversized luggage that is in your way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the flights had been oversold and crowded it would be your seat neighbours having to suck it up and be squished.&#8221;  So you honestly think that fat people ENJOY not fitting in the seat?  That we like keeping our arms folded in front of us for six or eight hours at a time because we don&#8217;t want to get in your way?  Do you think we enjoy having to be pressed up against some skinny a-hole who is throwing dirty looks, or even insults, at us through the entire flight?  We are human beings and we do not enjoy the crowded conditions any more than thin people do.  We are not just an inconvenient piece of oversized luggage that is in your way.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584116</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584116</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I like how there&#039;s the &quot;good&quot; obese people and the &quot;bad&quot; obese people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yeah, it sounds like a c. 1993 description of AIDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I like how there&#8217;s the &#8220;good&#8221; obese people and the &#8220;bad&#8221; obese people.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, it sounds like a c. 1993 description of AIDS.</p>
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		<title>By: Velocirapt42</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584056</link>
		<dc:creator>Velocirapt42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 04:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584056</guid>
		<description>I like how there&#039;s the &quot;good&quot; obese people and the &quot;bad&quot; obese people. Like, the good ones have genetic problems, or they actually eat right and exercise but were dealt a bad genetic hand. They should probably spend 3-4 hours a day running and not eat because, you know, being fat is not acceptable, but they still are accepted into the &quot;good&quot; category. Sorry I lumped you in with the bad ones, bro!

Then there are the BAD obese people, who drink soda and don&#039;t exercise and eat bad food!!(!!) Never mind that there are plenty of thin people who do this, who can be just as unhealthy. Those obese people are bad, bad, bad. They take up more space! They are unhealthy! We hate that they&#039;re unhealthy because unhealthiness is bad (pause for drag on cigarette) and ohmygod really we&#039;re just so WORRIED about them, we want them to lose weight FOR THEIR OWN GOOD.

Guess what- until you stop generalizing, until you stop assuming that the only reason people don&#039;t eat well or exercise is they&#039;re just so LAZY, until you can stop snap-judging obese people whenever you look at them, you&#039;re not going to change anything, be it the person&#039;s health behaviors or your airline experience. And yes, I&#039;m sick of sitting next to people on a plane who I have to involuntarily cuddle for a cross-country flight because there&#039;s no way for them not to be in my seat. But I don&#039;t blame them, I blame the airline. When I was a child plenty of obese people were on the plane and for the most part, the seats were big enough for them. If seats keep shrinking then soon only very short supermodels will be only vaguely comfortable. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how there&#8217;s the &#8220;good&#8221; obese people and the &#8220;bad&#8221; obese people. Like, the good ones have genetic problems, or they actually eat right and exercise but were dealt a bad genetic hand. They should probably spend 3-4 hours a day running and not eat because, you know, being fat is not acceptable, but they still are accepted into the &#8220;good&#8221; category. Sorry I lumped you in with the bad ones, bro!</p>
<p>Then there are the BAD obese people, who drink soda and don&#8217;t exercise and eat bad food!!(!!) Never mind that there are plenty of thin people who do this, who can be just as unhealthy. Those obese people are bad, bad, bad. They take up more space! They are unhealthy! We hate that they&#8217;re unhealthy because unhealthiness is bad (pause for drag on cigarette) and ohmygod really we&#8217;re just so WORRIED about them, we want them to lose weight FOR THEIR OWN GOOD.</p>
<p>Guess what- until you stop generalizing, until you stop assuming that the only reason people don&#8217;t eat well or exercise is they&#8217;re just so LAZY, until you can stop snap-judging obese people whenever you look at them, you&#8217;re not going to change anything, be it the person&#8217;s health behaviors or your airline experience. And yes, I&#8217;m sick of sitting next to people on a plane who I have to involuntarily cuddle for a cross-country flight because there&#8217;s no way for them not to be in my seat. But I don&#8217;t blame them, I blame the airline. When I was a child plenty of obese people were on the plane and for the most part, the seats were big enough for them. If seats keep shrinking then soon only very short supermodels will be only vaguely comfortable. </p>
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		<title>By: Velocirapt42</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1584045</link>
		<dc:creator>Velocirapt42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 04:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1584045</guid>
		<description>Yep, there are no possible confounding factors in that equation. No differences whatsoever between populations of different continents, except more of the population of one drinks soda, eats fried food, and is lazy. Thanks for the clarification!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, there are no possible confounding factors in that equation. No differences whatsoever between populations of different continents, except more of the population of one drinks soda, eats fried food, and is lazy. Thanks for the clarification!</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Dyer</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583972</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Dyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583972</guid>
		<description>If you require a seatbelt extender, you can&#039;t sit in the exit rows.  Too-fat people can&#039;t go there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you require a seatbelt extender, you can&#8217;t sit in the exit rows.  Too-fat people can&#8217;t go there.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583789</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583789</guid>
		<description>6&#039;-2&quot;, 40 inch inseam.  I haven&#039;t flown in years, but the last few times, I had to spread my legs so wide that my knees were taking up half my neighbor&#039;s leg room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6&#8242;-2&#8243;, 40 inch inseam.  I haven&#8217;t flown in years, but the last few times, I had to spread my legs so wide that my knees were taking up half my neighbor&#8217;s leg room.</p>
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		<title>By: Ipo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583744</link>
		<dc:creator>Ipo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583744</guid>
		<description> If the flights had been oversold and crowded it would be your seat neighbours having to suck it up and be squished.  It is you that extends into their space.  
I&#039;m skinny but long and broad, I use up the space assigned to me.  
If given a choice, I&#039;d rather not be pressed into, for hours, by anyone I don&#039;t feel close to, but I have no such privilege.  

That said, obese people obviously need more space.  I see hardly a reason to not accommodate them.  
Because I&#039;m tall I have often gotten the seats by the doors, without asking.  Airplane and public transportation seating is made for small to average sized people.  If airplanes had a percentage of oversize seating it would not go unused.  If they ever had a shortage of oversized people, they could even stick a short skinny person there.  
One would really think our subsidies buy us seating approaching our respective sizes.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> If the flights had been oversold and crowded it would be your seat neighbours having to suck it up and be squished.  It is you that extends into their space. <br />
I&#8217;m skinny but long and broad, I use up the space assigned to me. <br />
If given a choice, I&#8217;d rather not be pressed into, for hours, by anyone I don&#8217;t feel close to, but I have no such privilege.  </p>
<p>That said, obese people obviously need more space.  I see hardly a reason to not accommodate them. <br />
Because I&#8217;m tall I have often gotten the seats by the doors, without asking.  Airplane and public transportation seating is made for small to average sized people.  If airplanes had a percentage of oversize seating it would not go unused.  If they ever had a shortage of oversized people, they could even stick a short skinny person there. <br />
One would really think our subsidies buy us seating approaching our respective sizes.  </p>
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		<title>By: Rachael Hoffman-Dachelet</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583694</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachael Hoffman-Dachelet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583694</guid>
		<description>I am exactly 5&#039;7 and am usually around 165.  I don&#039;t fit in airplane seats anymore, I have a short torso and long legs.  Crazy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am exactly 5&#8217;7 and am usually around 165.  I don&#8217;t fit in airplane seats anymore, I have a short torso and long legs.  Crazy!</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583555</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583555</guid>
		<description>For an airline?  Over 5&#039;-8&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For an airline?  Over 5&#8242;-8&#8243;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ipo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583509</link>
		<dc:creator>Ipo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583509</guid>
		<description> While free seats and airline food are considered a diet.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> While free seats and airline food are considered a diet.  </p>
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		<title>By: elusis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583491</link>
		<dc:creator>elusis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583491</guid>
		<description>You know where else you have to accommodate other people&#039;s bodies?  All other forms of public transportation.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know where else you have to accommodate other people&#8217;s bodies?  All other forms of public transportation.  </p>
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		<title>By: elusis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583488</link>
		<dc:creator>elusis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583488</guid>
		<description>SW just changed their policy - you&#039;re in luck!  http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/index-pol.html </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SW just changed their policy &#8211; you&#8217;re in luck!  <a href="http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/index-pol.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/index-pol.html</a> </p>
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		<title>By: elusis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583484</link>
		<dc:creator>elusis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583484</guid>
		<description>Is there some kind of Fat People Allowance that we&#039;re supposed to be getting in order to afford things like plane tickets that are 3-5 times the cost of cattle class?  Kind of like the yearly payment Alaska residents all get? Because if so I need to make sure the government has my address right because mine never seems to show up.  And with all the studies showing that fat people, particularly fat women, suffer economic discrimination in terms of hiring, promotion, and salary, lord knows most of us aren&#039;t paying for first class on our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there some kind of Fat People Allowance that we&#8217;re supposed to be getting in order to afford things like plane tickets that are 3-5 times the cost of cattle class?  Kind of like the yearly payment Alaska residents all get? Because if so I need to make sure the government has my address right because mine never seems to show up.  And with all the studies showing that fat people, particularly fat women, suffer economic discrimination in terms of hiring, promotion, and salary, lord knows most of us aren&#8217;t paying for first class on our own.</p>
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		<title>By: tavie</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583452</link>
		<dc:creator>tavie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583452</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s pretty dismaying. People will do anything they can to maintain and support their own hatred and prejudice. Even the original article in The Economist acknowledges that there is a difference between fat people and thin people that is beyond our control; it&#039;s widely acknowledged that there are a variety of factors beyond &quot;stop eating so much fatty&quot; that determine whether a person is obese or not, and yet &quot;only serve them salad&quot; and &quot;they should have to pay by the pound&quot; and &quot;they&#039;re choosing to be fat&quot; and &quot;fatness is a lifestyle&quot; and, of course, the automatic knee-jerk &quot;fat = unhealthy&quot; - it goes on and on in every thread attached to every article relating to obesity ever. Never mind the wealth of information out there refuting each and every one of those assertions. Lazy prejudice first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty dismaying. People will do anything they can to maintain and support their own hatred and prejudice. Even the original article in The Economist acknowledges that there is a difference between fat people and thin people that is beyond our control; it&#8217;s widely acknowledged that there are a variety of factors beyond &#8220;stop eating so much fatty&#8221; that determine whether a person is obese or not, and yet &#8220;only serve them salad&#8221; and &#8220;they should have to pay by the pound&#8221; and &#8220;they&#8217;re choosing to be fat&#8221; and &#8220;fatness is a lifestyle&#8221; and, of course, the automatic knee-jerk &#8220;fat = unhealthy&#8221; &#8211; it goes on and on in every thread attached to every article relating to obesity ever. Never mind the wealth of information out there refuting each and every one of those assertions. Lazy prejudice first.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMadLibrarian</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583439</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMadLibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583439</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m plump but not all that tall.  I can still fit comfortably into a cattle class seat; the problem is the pitch between the seats.  If someone 5&#039;3&quot; bangs their knees on the seat in front of them when that person reclines, maybe, just maybe, the issue isn&#039;t necessarily that passengers are too big.  Possibly it&#039;s that the airlines have made their seating arrangements uncomfortable for anyone over age 10.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m plump but not all that tall.  I can still fit comfortably into a cattle class seat; the problem is the pitch between the seats.  If someone 5&#8217;3&#8243; bangs their knees on the seat in front of them when that person reclines, maybe, just maybe, the issue isn&#8217;t necessarily that passengers are too big.  Possibly it&#8217;s that the airlines have made their seating arrangements uncomfortable for anyone over age 10.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMadLibrarian</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583419</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMadLibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583419</guid>
		<description> I&#039;d like to know what the airlines use as &#039;standard human dimensions&#039;.  GIJoe and Barbie dolls, maybe? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I&#8217;d like to know what the airlines use as &#8216;standard human dimensions&#8217;.  GIJoe and Barbie dolls, maybe? </p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583385</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583385</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry I just assumed you were stalking me.

I only mean its fair in the context of charging for weight, which is what airlines regularly do any way.  But for some reason the weight of my luggage is of great interest to the airline, and carries with it a per Kg charge, and yet my weight is irrelevant.  That&#039;s not fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry I just assumed you were stalking me.</p>
<p>I only mean its fair in the context of charging for weight, which is what airlines regularly do any way.  But for some reason the weight of my luggage is of great interest to the airline, and carries with it a per Kg charge, and yet my weight is irrelevant.  That&#8217;s not fair.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583371</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583371</guid>
		<description> Sorry, thought this was part of our other discussion downthread.  

It&#039;s not objectively fair because a 4&#039;4&quot; person with a tiny bone structure gets permanent discount on flying while a 6&#039;6 person with wide shoulders and big limb bones will never be able to fly cheaply regardless of their body fat or their respective needs (maybe the 6&#039;6 person needs to fly a lot for business and the 4&#039;4 person does not).  One need not agree with me that this is unfair but the fact that I don&#039;t think it&#039;s fair demonstrates that it isn&#039;t &quot;objective&quot; at any rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Sorry, thought this was part of our other discussion downthread.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not objectively fair because a 4&#8217;4&#8243; person with a tiny bone structure gets permanent discount on flying while a 6&#8217;6 person with wide shoulders and big limb bones will never be able to fly cheaply regardless of their body fat or their respective needs (maybe the 6&#8217;6 person needs to fly a lot for business and the 4&#8217;4 person does not).  One need not agree with me that this is unfair but the fact that I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s fair demonstrates that it isn&#8217;t &#8220;objective&#8221; at any rate.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583347</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583347</guid>
		<description>Well it is a personal opinion, but it&#039;s also objectively fair.  How is it not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it is a personal opinion, but it&#8217;s also objectively fair.  How is it not?</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hornby</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/14/airlines-and-obese-fliers-is.html#comment-1583343</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hornby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194261#comment-1583343</guid>
		<description>@wysinwyg:disqus 

You make a good argument, but I&#039;m afraid that to me it&#039;s still apples and pears.

I would put forth that a tiny percentage of Obese people are in such a condition due to genuine medical circumstance, especially as there are very limited conditions that could actually be responsible for obesity - as apart from hormone/metabolism related conditions (and mental health of course) it&#039;s still just down to controlling your own diet.

Equally the number of wheelchair users who are in that position through prolonged abuse of their own body are probably in the single digits.  Simply being alive puts you at risk of losing your legs, so to achieve the same level of intent I&#039;d expect to see you carelessly hurling your body from 2 story buildings.

If you put yourself in a position whereby participating in an activity becomes an inconvenience I don&#039;t think that it&#039;s fair to expect others to go out of their way to accommodate you.  Of course it&#039;s nice if they do… but I don&#039;t think it should have to be a legal requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wysinwyg:disqus </p>
<p>You make a good argument, but I&#8217;m afraid that to me it&#8217;s still apples and pears.</p>
<p>I would put forth that a tiny percentage of Obese people are in such a condition due to genuine medical circumstance, especially as there are very limited conditions that could actually be responsible for obesity &#8211; as apart from hormone/metabolism related conditions (and mental health of course) it&#8217;s still just down to controlling your own diet.</p>
<p>Equally the number of wheelchair users who are in that position through prolonged abuse of their own body are probably in the single digits.  Simply being alive puts you at risk of losing your legs, so to achieve the same level of intent I&#8217;d expect to see you carelessly hurling your body from 2 story buildings.</p>
<p>If you put yourself in a position whereby participating in an activity becomes an inconvenience I don&#8217;t think that it&#8217;s fair to expect others to go out of their way to accommodate you.  Of course it&#8217;s nice if they do… but I don&#8217;t think it should have to be a legal requirement.</p>
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