Comments on: P2P downloaders spend more than non-downloaders on music, but pollster can't do math http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Thu, 20 Jun 2013 07:19:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: SamSam http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1586330 SamSam Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1586330 It's really confusing to me how you keep failing to get what I'm saying. You said: "See that? Two errors pointed out. Both real. Second one is more important. Seems you and they agree." Jonblye and I have pointed out several times, the first is <i>not</i> an error. It's just not. It's a minor point that only needed mentioning once, but somehow your condescending, rude insistance that "today is a good day to read past the first sentence of a post before responding to it" and "Again. Lets read the end of the first sentence and the start of the second, together," without having read or understood our comments, made us feel the need to explain again, twice, why this is indeed the case. And now somehow I'm obtuse? It’s really confusing to me how you keep failing to get what I’m saying.

You said: “See that? Two errors pointed out. Both real. Second one is more important. Seems you and they agree.”

Jonblye and I have pointed out several times, the first is not an error. It’s just not.

It’s a minor point that only needed mentioning once, but somehow your condescending, rude insistance that “today is a good day to read past the first sentence of a post before responding to it” and “Again. Lets read the end of the first sentence and the start of the second, together,” without having read or understood our comments, made us feel the need to explain again, twice, why this is indeed the case. And now somehow I’m obtuse?

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1584805 acerplatanoides Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1584805 Wow, that's pretty obtuse. This may be the last time I respond to your questions in good faith, Wow, that’s pretty obtuse. This may be the last time I respond to your questions in good faith,

]]> By: SamSam http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1584292 SamSam Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1584292 Because the first is not an error. We've gone over that. Because the first is not an error. We’ve gone over that.

]]> By: Jonbly Herbert http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1584199 Jonbly Herbert Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1584199  Yes, that's the point I'm making. Opening with a stupid mistake of his own destroys his credibility, and detracts from the real point he has to make (which is valid).  Yes, that’s the point I’m making. Opening with a stupid mistake of his own destroys his credibility, and detracts from the real point he has to make (which is valid).

]]> By: That_Anonymous_Coward http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1584021 That_Anonymous_Coward Fri, 16 Nov 2012 04:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1584021 And yet we still need CCI spying on us to make sure the good citizens know its wrong, even if it is increasing sales. And yet we still need CCI spying on us to make sure the good citizens know its wrong, even if it is increasing sales.

]]> By: Daemonworks http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583942 Daemonworks Fri, 16 Nov 2012 02:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583942 P2P usage has no effect on purchasing? Wait, isn't their whole argument that it does have an effect on purchasing - namely decreasing it? (Of course, the data points in the other direction, but still...) P2P usage has no effect on purchasing? Wait, isn’t their whole argument that it does have an effect on purchasing – namely decreasing it? (Of course, the data points in the other direction, but still…)

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583806 acerplatanoides Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583806 Yes, that strawman you've dealt with handily surely was a nuisance. Thanks for responding to -my- words. perhaps we should all just be more careful when we assume someone is agruing against us? i know I feel you could right now, and I know I've made such mistakes in the past. Yes, that strawman you’ve dealt with handily surely was a nuisance. Thanks for responding to -my- words.

perhaps we should all just be more careful when we assume someone is agruing against us? i know I feel you could right now, and I know I’ve made such mistakes in the past.

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583762 Boundegar Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583762 My opinion is that you can crunch numbers all you like, but if your representatives are bought, it won't matter.  They won't smack their foreheads and say, "Of course!  I must now return the RIAA's campaign contribution!  The data demands it!"  Instead, they will do what they are paid to do, and the data be damned. If you feel my opinion counts as no opinion, and is not worth sharing, that's fine.  I disagree. My opinion is that you can crunch numbers all you like, but if your representatives are bought, it won’t matter.  They won’t smack their foreheads and say, “Of course!  I must now return the RIAA’s campaign contribution!  The data demands it!”  Instead, they will do what they are paid to do, and the data be damned.

If you feel my opinion counts as no opinion, and is not worth sharing, that’s fine.  I disagree.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583696 acerplatanoides Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583696 the data does matter, doubly so since their abusing it to say what it doesnt' say. that makes the data central to the point, which is that they're talking out both sides of their mouth on this. And if it doesn't matter, why bother saying so. Is your opinion so important that you have to share it even when you don't have one? the data does matter, doubly so since their abusing it to say what it doesnt’ say. that makes the data central to the point, which is that they’re talking out both sides of their mouth on this.

And if it doesn’t matter, why bother saying so. Is your opinion so important that you have to share it even when you don’t have one?

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583669 acerplatanoides Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583669 Again. Lets read the end of the first sentence and the start of the second, together. "Though perhaps this is due to rounding errors from the original data. More important, however, is a bigger math error in the chart" See that? Two errors pointed out. Both real. Second one is more important. Seems you and they agree. So why does it seem to me that you disagree with both me, and them? I'm not going to presume. Is your point that they ought to have only mentioned one of the errors? because that can easily be fixed when you get hired by them as an editor. Again. Lets read the end of the first sentence and the start of the second, together.

“Though perhaps this is due to rounding errors from the original data.
More important, however, is a bigger math error in the chart”

See that? Two errors pointed out. Both real. Second one is more important. Seems you and they agree.

So why does it seem to me that you disagree with both me, and them? I’m not going to presume.

Is your point that they ought to have only mentioned one of the errors? because that can easily be fixed when you get hired by them as an editor.

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583633 Boundegar Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583633 The real message here is that the math does not matter.  The data does not matter.  If your elected representatives are bought, they're bought.  They could throw out any bullshit numbers they want - and they do.  It doesn't matter. The real message here is that the math does not matter.  The data does not matter.  If your elected representatives are bought, they’re bought.  They could throw out any bullshit numbers they want – and they do.  It doesn’t matter.

]]> By: SamSam http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583595 SamSam Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583595 Yes, but it does weaken the article quite a bit to start with it, when it's so obviously explained — as the article says — by rounding. It's like saying: "Here's what's wrong about your argument. First of all, you misspelled "color" everywhere. Well, I guess that could be because you're British. But secondly [...a bunch of good arguments]." Why even point out the first "error" — and accuse them of "failing basic math" — if you quickly realize your own mistake and understand that it's not an error at all? It makes people suspect that you don't understand the rest of the math either. Yes, but it does weaken the article quite a bit to start with it, when it’s so obviously explained — as the article says — by rounding.

It’s like saying: “Here’s what’s wrong about your argument. First of all, you misspelled “color” everywhere. Well, I guess that could be because you’re British. But secondly [...a bunch of good arguments].”

Why even point out the first “error” — and accuse them of “failing basic math” — if you quickly realize your own mistake and understand that it’s not an error at all? It makes people suspect that you don’t understand the rest of the math either.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583535 acerplatanoides Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583535 I think today is a good day to read past the first sentence of a post before responding to it. I think today is a good day to read past the first sentence of a post before responding to it.

]]> By: Jonbly Herbert http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583522 Jonbly Herbert Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583522 33.3+33.3+33.4=100.0 ... now round all the numbers to integers and you call the result a math error? 33.3+33.3+33.4=100.0 … now round all the numbers to integers and you call the result a math error?

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583517 acerplatanoides Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583517 I always wonder who 'they' are in this conversation. I always wonder who ‘they’ are in this conversation.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583516 acerplatanoides Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583516 I've downloaded. If I don't like it, I delete it. If i like it I usually wind up purchasing the 'official' version. And watching movies that I maybe oughtn't to have had copies of has definitely led me to watch more films in the theater. Anecdote, not data, but my spending on legal media far far exceeds $206/year. I pay that much between amazon and netflix, exclusively to watch old tv shows legally. Beyond the $206 is the 20 or so physical CDs I purchased, subscriptions to 4 shows, whatever is on my kindle, plus about one physical book a month, 4 3d movies and 3 others at the theater chains, etc.   P2P is part of the culture now. That ship sailed. If you're responsible for fighting reality, I won't keep spending at your shop. I’ve downloaded. If I don’t like it, I delete it. If i like it I usually wind up purchasing the ‘official’ version. And watching movies that I maybe oughtn’t to have had copies of has definitely led me to watch more films in the theater. Anecdote, not data, but my spending on legal media far far exceeds $206/year. I pay that much between amazon and netflix, exclusively to watch old tv shows legally. Beyond the $206 is the 20 or so physical CDs I purchased, subscriptions to 4 shows, whatever is on my kindle, plus about one physical book a month, 4 3d movies and 3 others at the theater chains, etc.  

P2P is part of the culture now. That ship sailed. If you’re responsible for fighting reality, I won’t keep spending at your shop.

]]> By: imag http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583511 imag Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583511 Clearly, one cannot prove that P2P hurt *or* helped sales based on this data.  The RIAA may be right - these people might have bought $10K worth of CDs every month if not for P2P. A separate study is needed. This data *does* indicate that many P2P users are also good RIAA customers. Clearly, one cannot prove that P2P hurt *or* helped sales based on this data.  The RIAA may be right – these people might have bought $10K worth of CDs every month if not for P2P. A separate study is needed.

This data *does* indicate that many P2P users are also good RIAA customers.

]]> By: wysinwyg http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/ile-sharing-of-music-has-been.html#comment-1583498 wysinwyg Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=194318#comment-1583498 In before "but they're taking money from <em>artists</em>"! In before “but they’re taking money from artists“!

]]>