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	<title>Comments on: IRS sued for not enforcing campaign restrictions on&#160;churches</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John McKeon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1585848</link>
		<dc:creator>John McKeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1585848</guid>
		<description> I was thinking Kansas myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I was thinking Kansas myself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sommelier</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584751</link>
		<dc:creator>sommelier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584751</guid>
		<description>So, if the IRS does enforce the law the teabaggers will claim that Obama is a godless communist christian hating muslim black man who&#039;s out to destroy America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, if the IRS does enforce the law the teabaggers will claim that Obama is a godless communist christian hating muslim black man who&#8217;s out to destroy America.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wrecksdart</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584705</link>
		<dc:creator>wrecksdart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584705</guid>
		<description> Brilliant quote, great movie. I will never forget the injection of sleeping potion into the giant&#039;s head...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Brilliant quote, great movie. I will never forget the injection of sleeping potion into the giant&#8217;s head&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: IronEdithKidd</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584544</link>
		<dc:creator>IronEdithKidd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584544</guid>
		<description>This story has nothing to do with the Federal IRS codes.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This story has nothing to do with the Federal IRS codes.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: heph</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584293</link>
		<dc:creator>heph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584293</guid>
		<description>They you could take tax claims on the pastor/padre or however you call them over there and his churches-grounds. As in taxing the offending part of the organisation and not the organisation as whole. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They you could take tax claims on the pastor/padre or however you call them over there and his churches-grounds. As in taxing the offending part of the organisation and not the organisation as whole. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lithi</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584209</link>
		<dc:creator>Lithi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584209</guid>
		<description>If this has been touched on, I&#039;m sorry, but churches should no longer be tax-exempt. Especially if they&#039;re preaching politics from the pulpit. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this has been touched on, I&#8217;m sorry, but churches should no longer be tax-exempt. Especially if they&#8217;re preaching politics from the pulpit. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: benenglish</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584152</link>
		<dc:creator>benenglish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 06:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584152</guid>
		<description>It helps if you have some understanding of the way bureaucracy works.

First, the IRS doesn&#039;t have people earning Sunday differential pay to go to churches just to scope out what&#039;s happening.  Thus, they need people like you to provide them with leads.  Thank you for the effort you&#039;ve described.  I fear, though, that this is not enough.

Leads with a nice letter stapled to them saying &quot;Could you please look into this?&quot; won&#039;t cut the mustard.  The IRS is a bureaucracy and thus has a form for every function.  If you want a function performed, you must inject the form into the workflow or nothing (usually) will happen.  

In this case, did you make a formal filing by attaching the flyer to and fully completing either Form 3949A ( http://www.irstaxfraud.com/uploads/irstaxfraud.com_Form_3949A_Information_Referral.pdf ) or Form 211 ( http://www.irstaxfraud.com/upload/irstaxfraud.com_Form_211_Application_for_Award_for_Original_Information.pdf )?

If you didn&#039;t use either form, the nice folks who opened your inquiry would need to be well enough trained to route it correctly.  Often, that happens...but not often enough.  To be certain that an inquiry is created in the giant paper workflow machine, you need to plant the right seed...er...form from which an investigation can grow.

Did you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It helps if you have some understanding of the way bureaucracy works.</p>
<p>First, the IRS doesn&#8217;t have people earning Sunday differential pay to go to churches just to scope out what&#8217;s happening.  Thus, they need people like you to provide them with leads.  Thank you for the effort you&#8217;ve described.  I fear, though, that this is not enough.</p>
<p>Leads with a nice letter stapled to them saying &#8220;Could you please look into this?&#8221; won&#8217;t cut the mustard.  The IRS is a bureaucracy and thus has a form for every function.  If you want a function performed, you must inject the form into the workflow or nothing (usually) will happen.  </p>
<p>In this case, did you make a formal filing by attaching the flyer to and fully completing either Form 3949A ( <a href="http://www.irstaxfraud.com/uploads/irstaxfraud.com_Form_3949A_Information_Referral.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.irstaxfraud.com/uploads/irstaxfraud.com_Form_3949A_Information_Referral.pdf</a> ) or Form 211 ( <a href="http://www.irstaxfraud.com/upload/irstaxfraud.com_Form_211_Application_for_Award_for_Original_Information.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.irstaxfraud.com/upload/irstaxfraud.com_Form_211_Application_for_Award_for_Original_Information.pdf</a> )?</p>
<p>If you didn&#8217;t use either form, the nice folks who opened your inquiry would need to be well enough trained to route it correctly.  Often, that happens&#8230;but not often enough.  To be certain that an inquiry is created in the giant paper workflow machine, you need to plant the right seed&#8230;er&#8230;form from which an investigation can grow.</p>
<p>Did you?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: niktemadur</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1584134</link>
		<dc:creator>niktemadur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 06:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1584134</guid>
		<description>But, and this is a BIG BUT - if you&#039;re referring to Ginsburg and/or Breyer, at least they won&#039;t be replaced by a Romney appointee.  So even if that&#039;s the only shakeup in the Court during the next four years, @Scooter_Jackson:disqus &#039;s argument still holds true.
That said, there&#039;s also still four more years of possibility that Scalia or Thomas could retire for currently unforeseen reasons, such as health, as they&#039;re getting on in age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, and this is a BIG BUT &#8211; if you&#8217;re referring to Ginsburg and/or Breyer, at least they won&#8217;t be replaced by a Romney appointee.  So even if that&#8217;s the only shakeup in the Court during the next four years, @Scooter_Jackson:disqus &#8216;s argument still holds true.<br />
That said, there&#8217;s also still four more years of possibility that Scalia or Thomas could retire for currently unforeseen reasons, such as health, as they&#8217;re getting on in age.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dioptase</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583791</link>
		<dc:creator>dioptase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583791</guid>
		<description> Ah, that answers my question of why churches wouldn&#039;t just reclassify.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Ah, that answers my question of why churches wouldn&#8217;t just reclassify.  Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dioptase</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583787</link>
		<dc:creator>dioptase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583787</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s to stop churches that get involved with politics from changing over to some other non-profit status?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s to stop churches that get involved with politics from changing over to some other non-profit status?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher Schipper</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583728</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Schipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583728</guid>
		<description>The issue is not whether churches are banned from engaging in overt political behavior, it&#039;s whether or not they are entitled to maintain their tax-exempt status if they do so. The fact that churches currently engage in political advocacy and do not pay taxes means that US taxpayers subsidize the churches - and by extension, the candidates that they support. This is WRONG! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is not whether churches are banned from engaging in overt political behavior, it&#8217;s whether or not they are entitled to maintain their tax-exempt status if they do so. The fact that churches currently engage in political advocacy and do not pay taxes means that US taxpayers subsidize the churches &#8211; and by extension, the candidates that they support. This is WRONG! </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cellocgw</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583671</link>
		<dc:creator>cellocgw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583671</guid>
		<description>How far from Austin do you live?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How far from Austin do you live?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Boundegar</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583647</link>
		<dc:creator>Boundegar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583647</guid>
		<description>Yea that&#039;s not really relevant, except in the vaguest way.  It has a church in it, and a government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea that&#8217;s not really relevant, except in the vaguest way.  It has a church in it, and a government.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lafave</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583625</link>
		<dc:creator>lafave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583625</guid>
		<description>Obama doesn&#039;t need to sue the IRS, he could just pick up the phone and tell them to enforce the law.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama doesn&#8217;t need to sue the IRS, he could just pick up the phone and tell them to enforce the law.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583585</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583585</guid>
		<description>And the Freedom from Religion Foundation&#039;s board will all go to trial for &quot;tax irregularities&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the Freedom from Religion Foundation&#8217;s board will all go to trial for &#8220;tax irregularities&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew Petty</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583580</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Petty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583580</guid>
		<description>Supreme Being: I should do something very extroverted and vengeful to you. Honestly, I&#039;m too tired. So, I think I&#039;ll transfer you to the undergrowth department, brackens, small shrubs, that sort of thing... with a 19% cut in salary, backdated to the beginning of time.
Randall: Oh, thank you, sir.
Supreme Being: Yes, well, I am the nice one.
(Time Bandits, 1981)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supreme Being: I should do something very extroverted and vengeful to you. Honestly, I&#8217;m too tired. So, I think I&#8217;ll transfer you to the undergrowth department, brackens, small shrubs, that sort of thing&#8230; with a 19% cut in salary, backdated to the beginning of time.<br />
Randall: Oh, thank you, sir.<br />
Supreme Being: Yes, well, I am the nice one.<br />
(Time Bandits, 1981)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Marc Mielke</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583538</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Mielke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583538</guid>
		<description>The Mormons let INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS have tax-exempt status!
http://www.care2.com/causes/how-romney-borrowed-the-mormon-churchs-tax-exemption.html </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mormons let INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS have tax-exempt status!<br />
<a href="http://www.care2.com/causes/how-romney-borrowed-the-mormon-churchs-tax-exemption.html " rel="nofollow">http://www.care2.com/causes/how-romney-borrowed-the-mormon-churchs-tax-exemption.html </a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: acerplatanoides</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583528</link>
		<dc:creator>acerplatanoides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583528</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, but missed that it was a rhetorical question. Please continue holding court. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, but missed that it was a rhetorical question. Please continue holding court. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: acerplatanoides</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583526</link>
		<dc:creator>acerplatanoides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583526</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure you&#039;re right, legally. But you go and find where your local town keeps building inspection records, fuel oil tank records, sprinkler inspection records and the like for your local church. I&#039;ve looked. I&#039;m amazed how non-enforced those things are, because nobody wants to step in it, legally. 

Deference goes a long way. That&#039;s why they think they can get away with politics. The pushy book-thumping jerks.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re right, legally. But you go and find where your local town keeps building inspection records, fuel oil tank records, sprinkler inspection records and the like for your local church. I&#8217;ve looked. I&#8217;m amazed how non-enforced those things are, because nobody wants to step in it, legally. </p>
<p>Deference goes a long way. That&#8217;s why they think they can get away with politics. The pushy book-thumping jerks.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Lord</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583507</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Lord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583507</guid>
		<description>So a candidate whose opponent was endorsed in this manner and who lost to that opponent would be a better person to file this lawsuit, as their candidacy was affected by the illegal contributions that the IRS should have stopped?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So a candidate whose opponent was endorsed in this manner and who lost to that opponent would be a better person to file this lawsuit, as their candidacy was affected by the illegal contributions that the IRS should have stopped?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chgoliz</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583468</link>
		<dc:creator>chgoliz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583468</guid>
		<description>Sadly, I think you&#039;re right. The only way this will work is to further demonize a minority.  Zeus forfend we &quot;attack&quot; Christians by making them follow the Constitution and subsequent laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, I think you&#8217;re right. The only way this will work is to further demonize a minority.  Zeus forfend we &#8220;attack&#8221; Christians by making them follow the Constitution and subsequent laws.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Baker</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583442</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583442</guid>
		<description>I asked as a rhetorical question. I don&#039;t believe that consistent, universal application of tax law to all organizations interferes with the Free Exercise Clause in any way. But I&#039;m also not counting on getting an appointment to the federal bench any time soon, so my guess is that my opinion on this doesn&#039;t matter one heck of a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked as a rhetorical question. I don&#8217;t believe that consistent, universal application of tax law to all organizations interferes with the Free Exercise Clause in any way. But I&#8217;m also not counting on getting an appointment to the federal bench any time soon, so my guess is that my opinion on this doesn&#8217;t matter one heck of a lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ChicagoD</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583420</link>
		<dc:creator>ChicagoD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583420</guid>
		<description>Uh, that&#039;s not correct. Churches are subject to the laws of the state. For instance, they would be subject to every single law and regulation regarding any cell tower anywhere. The separation between church and state had nothing to do with not being subject to laws. It has to do with not having a state religion, and the state not intervening in internal church conflicts. For instance, there are cases where separate bishops sue each other for control of a church building based on church rules. The courts refused to rule on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, that&#8217;s not correct. Churches are subject to the laws of the state. For instance, they would be subject to every single law and regulation regarding any cell tower anywhere. The separation between church and state had nothing to do with not being subject to laws. It has to do with not having a state religion, and the state not intervening in internal church conflicts. For instance, there are cases where separate bishops sue each other for control of a church building based on church rules. The courts refused to rule on that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: grs</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583421</link>
		<dc:creator>grs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583421</guid>
		<description>From the Detroit Free press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012311150143

From the article: &quot;After two courts dismissed the case, the attorney for an Ypsilanti pastor who is challenging a Michigan law that restricts what ministers and other religious leaders can say about politics plans to file another appeal Friday.&quot;

A little different story because the guy feels like he&#039;ll be unfairly prosecuted, even though he&#039;s never been prosecuted and there&#039;s no real precedent. It has been laughed out of court. Twice. The guy doesn&#039;t get the tax exempt part though.
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Detroit Free press:<br />
<a href="http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012311150143" rel="nofollow">http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012311150143</a></p>
<p>From the article: &#8220;After two courts dismissed the case, the attorney for an Ypsilanti pastor who is challenging a Michigan law that restricts what ministers and other religious leaders can say about politics plans to file another appeal Friday.&#8221;</p>
<p>A little different story because the guy feels like he&#8217;ll be unfairly prosecuted, even though he&#8217;s never been prosecuted and there&#8217;s no real precedent. It has been laughed out of court. Twice. The guy doesn&#8217;t get the tax exempt part though.</p>
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		<title>By: acerplatanoides</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583399</link>
		<dc:creator>acerplatanoides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583399</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Why aren&#039;t churches in the United States organized and regulated like other organizations with a joint mission of advocacy and charity: having their funding sources separated by intended use?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Uh, because they can, and have, argued that the seperation of church and state prevents such regulation, so long as they&#039;re within the bounds of a church (also respecting that seperation, and staying out of the state&#039;s business). I say that because I have to assume fro your question that you&#039;re not familiar with US Civics 101. The rest of what you said makes perfect sense, and would be sensible... but when did religeon and sense ever collide with universally acceptable results?

Where I think this ges funny is when churches put cell phone towers in their steeples. What&#039;s the EM limit? Who can tell a church that it&#039;s cell phone tower is illegally powerful. How can the feds regulate what happens inside a steeple??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Why aren&#8217;t churches in the United States organized and regulated like other organizations with a joint mission of advocacy and charity: having their funding sources separated by intended use?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Uh, because they can, and have, argued that the seperation of church and state prevents such regulation, so long as they&#8217;re within the bounds of a church (also respecting that seperation, and staying out of the state&#8217;s business). I say that because I have to assume fro your question that you&#8217;re not familiar with US Civics 101. The rest of what you said makes perfect sense, and would be sensible&#8230; but when did religeon and sense ever collide with universally acceptable results?</p>
<p>Where I think this ges funny is when churches put cell phone towers in their steeples. What&#8217;s the EM limit? Who can tell a church that it&#8217;s cell phone tower is illegally powerful. How can the feds regulate what happens inside a steeple??</p>
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		<title>By: Nadreck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583377</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadreck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583377</guid>
		<description>But then the Mormons deliberately don&#039;t apply for the Tax Breaks so that they can say what they want.  Their religious installations and organisations pay the same taxes as any other business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But then the Mormons deliberately don&#8217;t apply for the Tax Breaks so that they can say what they want.  Their religious installations and organisations pay the same taxes as any other business.</p>
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		<title>By: Boundegar</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583337</link>
		<dc:creator>Boundegar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583337</guid>
		<description>Well it&#039;s very hard to punish people before the fact - unless you consider austerity to be a form of punishment.  Even so, it seems to increase crime, so it&#039;s not working out too well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it&#8217;s very hard to punish people before the fact &#8211; unless you consider austerity to be a form of punishment.  Even so, it seems to increase crime, so it&#8217;s not working out too well.</p>
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		<title>By: EH</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583336</link>
		<dc:creator>EH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583336</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In many congregations, the pulpit is an open forum. The speech of any one congregant over the pulpit cannot mean that the whole organization has acted. &lt;/i&gt;

Why not? It&#039;s the church&#039;s policy to allow it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In many congregations, the pulpit is an open forum. The speech of any one congregant over the pulpit cannot mean that the whole organization has acted. </i></p>
<p>Why not? It&#8217;s the church&#8217;s policy to allow it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ito Kagehisa</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583331</link>
		<dc:creator>Ito Kagehisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583331</guid>
		<description>Ah, I have been wondering if you were a friend of mine from my rocket science days, who also goes by &quot;Chicago D&quot; on occasion.  But he isn&#039;t a lawyer, so that clears that up!  ^_^

Thanks for the informed opinion, in any case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I have been wondering if you were a friend of mine from my rocket science days, who also goes by &#8220;Chicago D&#8221; on occasion.  But he isn&#8217;t a lawyer, so that clears that up!  ^_^</p>
<p>Thanks for the informed opinion, in any case.</p>
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		<title>By: quandmeme</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2012/11/15/irs-sued-for-not-enforcing-cam.html#comment-1583305</link>
		<dc:creator>quandmeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=194311#comment-1583305</guid>
		<description> I agree about the church letterhead. 

But I do think there is an ambiguity about the pulpit. In many congregations, the pulpit is an open forum. The speech of any one congregant over the pulpit cannot mean that the whole organization has acted. I am acquainted with the materiality rules in the Section 501 and there is grey.

If an AIDS center had an open meeting and one member admonished the attendees to vote for Obama because under Romney agencies would be less sensitive, that speech would not violate the exempt status. 
What about a volunteer?
What about an employee?
What about the president of the AIDS center?

So your black and white rule is no more helpful than the assertions of these pastors. I think they are indefensibly across the line when they announce a special service and when the professional pastor speaking as pastor makes endorsements. 

I think the pastor qua pastor can speak to moral and social issues, but many of these guys  http://www.speakupmovement.org/Church/Content/pdf/PFS_2012_Churches_Final_list.pdf  who have publicly flouted the requirements have crossed the line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I agree about the church letterhead. </p>
<p>But I do think there is an ambiguity about the pulpit. In many congregations, the pulpit is an open forum. The speech of any one congregant over the pulpit cannot mean that the whole organization has acted. I am acquainted with the materiality rules in the Section 501 and there is grey.</p>
<p>If an AIDS center had an open meeting and one member admonished the attendees to vote for Obama because under Romney agencies would be less sensitive, that speech would not violate the exempt status.<br />
What about a volunteer?<br />
What about an employee?<br />
What about the president of the AIDS center?</p>
<p>So your black and white rule is no more helpful than the assertions of these pastors. I think they are indefensibly across the line when they announce a special service and when the professional pastor speaking as pastor makes endorsements. </p>
<p>I think the pastor qua pastor can speak to moral and social issues, but many of these guys  <a href="http://www.speakupmovement.org/Church/Content/pdf/PFS_2012_Churches_Final_list.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.speakupmovement.org/Church/Content/pdf/PFS_2012_Churches_Final_list.pdf</a>  who have publicly flouted the requirements have crossed the line.</p>
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