Comments on: Kevin Clash announces his departure from Sesame Street following sex scandal http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 19 May 2013 02:05:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Vincenzo Ravina http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1589138 Vincenzo Ravina Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1589138  Big Bird's performer, Carroll Spinney, is still going. There hasn't been a change, though there is an understudy.  Big Bird’s performer, Carroll Spinney, is still going. There hasn’t been a change, though there is an understudy.

]]> By: EvilSpirit http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588610 EvilSpirit Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588610 Your notion that acting the character of Elmo is merely a matter of aping a particular voice is ludicrous. Clash is a talented comic actor. Others may be able to perform a good interpretation of Elmo. But nobody will *replace* Kevin Clash, any more than any other actor playing a role can replace those who played it before. Your notion that acting the character of Elmo is merely a matter of aping a particular voice is ludicrous. Clash is a talented comic actor. Others may be able to perform a good interpretation of Elmo. But nobody will *replace* Kevin Clash, any more than any other actor playing a role can replace those who played it before.

]]> By: John Maple http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588359 John Maple Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588359  Please relate to Kevin that when one thing ends, another begins.  He is talented and can create something new.  It is a challenge and an opportunity that I think he will able to turn to his advantage.  Please relate to Kevin that when one thing ends, another begins.  He is talented and can create something new.  It is a challenge and an opportunity that I think he will able to turn to his advantage.

]]> By: hanoverfiste http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588288 hanoverfiste Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588288 First, I am most concerned about the potential backlash of this story. It is obviously agreed b/w Sesame Street and Clash that his departure is the best for damage control.  But conservatives are likely to jump on this story to continue separation of public funding to PBS/NPR.  Thankfully Jerry Falwell is dead to give his 2 cents. I think in general a public sex scandal is good grounds in the public conscious for separation in the children entertainment business regardless of age or orientation.  Although the only other one that comes to mind in Paul Reubens. We can't possibly know all the details of what actually happened between the two of them. For the 15 year old, I have a couple of mixed feelings about the situation.  Obviously, he was below what out society and law considers to be age of consent.  At the same time, when he called the chat line he was presenting himself as being at least 18 by making the call.  Now, we have to assume Clash would have been able to know the difference by the time they met or the first accuser told the truth, at which point Clash should have exited the situation. My brother's wife is 5 years younger than him.  He started dating her while she was in high school.  To our family, she had several 18 year old birthdays.  Honesty, it is still unclear to me how old she really is.  Their relationship was consensual, her parent agreed to relationship because her older sister had a child out of wedlock with a bad-boy while in high school.  They are coming up 10 years married, no children yet.  She has a masters degree, he is an officer in the military. My best friend in JR/SR high school had his first relationship with a volunteer youth minister/BBS Sysop.  (Thankfully friend of friend facebbook we have reconnected after 14 years of no contact).  My friend was in junior high, the other a sophomore in college.  I can't say report that after all these years that they are still together, or that one has fond feelings for the other. But, my friend doesn't state he was a victim.  When I was 17, I had a number of sexual relationship with women far older than me.  I had to hit 18 before anything happened with guys.  In all those situations I knew what I was getting into.  Certainly when I was 15-17 if I have could have pulled something off I, think I would stand by the results as a lesson, personally.  I did have a number of situations where I had advances from men before I was 18 that I did not act or nor tell about to anyone else. Also, when I was 21 I had 3 month relationship with a girl that was 16. She ended it and I wasn't happy with that.  I don't want to say that the accuser was not a victim.  The worse thing about it all is that b/c of Clash's public status it cannot be handled between the two of them. Depending on the nature of the relationship, the money could be an insult. I am not sure what real justice is.  I know there are too many situations when people that are victims are unable to face their accuser.  Victims that do take action against their accuser and see now result.  People that don't like how things went down and then cry fowl.  And, plenty of people that don't like how a relationship went and can't do anything about it. I feel bad for everybody involved in this situation. First, I am most concerned about the potential backlash of this story. It is obviously agreed b/w Sesame Street and Clash that his departure is the best for damage control.  But conservatives are likely to jump on this story to continue separation of public funding to PBS/NPR.  Thankfully Jerry Falwell is dead to give his 2 cents.

I think in general a public sex scandal is good grounds in the public conscious for separation in the children entertainment business regardless of age or orientation.  Although the only other one that comes to mind in Paul Reubens.

We can’t possibly know all the details of what actually happened between the two of them.

For the 15 year old, I have a couple of mixed feelings about the situation.  Obviously, he was below what out society and law considers to be age of consent.  At the same time, when he called the chat line he was presenting himself as being at least 18 by making the call.  Now, we have to assume Clash would have been able to know the difference by the time they met or the first accuser told the truth, at which point Clash should have exited the situation.

My brother’s wife is 5 years younger than him.  He started dating her while she was in high school.  To our family, she had several 18 year old birthdays.  Honesty, it is still unclear to me how old she really is.  Their relationship was consensual, her parent agreed to relationship because her older sister had a child out of wedlock with a bad-boy while in high school.  They are coming up 10 years married, no children yet.  She has a masters degree, he is an officer in the military.

My best friend in JR/SR high school had his first relationship with a volunteer youth minister/BBS Sysop.  (Thankfully friend of friend facebbook we have reconnected after 14 years of no contact).  My friend was in junior high, the other a sophomore in college.  I can’t say report that after all these years that they are still together, or that one has fond feelings for the other. But, my friend doesn’t state he was a victim. 

When I was 17, I had a number of sexual relationship with women far older than me.  I had to hit 18 before anything happened with guys.  In all those situations I knew what I was getting into.  Certainly when I was 15-17 if I have could have pulled something off I, think I would stand by the results as a lesson, personally.  I did have a number of situations where I had advances from men before I was 18 that I did not act or nor tell about to anyone else. Also, when I was 21 I had 3 month relationship with a girl that was 16. She ended it and I wasn’t happy with that. 

I don’t want to say that the accuser was not a victim.  The worse thing about it all is that b/c of Clash’s public status it cannot be handled between the two of them. Depending on the nature of the relationship, the money could be an insult.

I am not sure what real justice is.  I know there are too many situations when people that are victims are unable to face their accuser.  Victims that do take action against their accuser and see now result.  People that don’t like how things went down and then cry fowl.  And, plenty of people that don’t like how a relationship went and can’t do anything about it.

I feel bad for everybody involved in this situation.

]]> By: C W http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588247 C W Wed, 21 Nov 2012 04:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588247 Clash's relationship with the first claimant was after the person was 18. Clash’s relationship with the first claimant was after the person was 18.

]]> By: red flight http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588194 red flight Wed, 21 Nov 2012 02:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588194 to gobo:  I suppose you also believe that the sudden avalanche of Jerry Sandusky's victims were also all liars and goldiggers??? Often these victims think they are the only one, that no one would believe them, and that they were complicit simply because they were too naive to say no.  The first brave accuser can indeed be the catalyst for others to come forward. to gobo:  I suppose you also believe that the sudden avalanche of Jerry Sandusky’s victims were also all liars and goldiggers???

Often these victims think they are the only one, that no one would believe them, and that they were complicit simply because they were too naive to say no.  The first brave accuser can indeed be the catalyst for others to come forward.

]]> By: Adela Doiron http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588192 Adela Doiron Wed, 21 Nov 2012 02:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588192 And it's only recently (within living memory) that age of consent was raised to a point of making ephebophilia criminal in the western world. I do notice that heteronormative ephebophilia is accepted far more and is legal in many places; just not NewYork unless you are already legally married from elsewhere. And it’s only recently (within living memory) that age of consent was raised to a point of making ephebophilia criminal in the western world. I do notice that heteronormative ephebophilia is accepted far more and is legal in many places; just not NewYork unless you are already legally married from elsewhere.

]]> By: Brian Snape http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588188 Brian Snape Wed, 21 Nov 2012 02:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588188 If you're referring to anyone other than Jeff Bergman, I would agree with you. If you’re referring to anyone other than Jeff Bergman, I would agree with you.

]]> By: kaisersosse http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588069 kaisersosse Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588069 i would like to add that all this circus about the privat sex-affairs of presidents and politicians is very strange to look at for a European like me. Now even puppeteers are losing their job because they had "something" (slimy? gross? perverted?) going on in their life that maybe perhaps might not be 100% kosher. i am not sure if the public humiliation of anybody involved in an affair like this makes the world a better place. for me it's a) just plain weird and b) engrossing to pull stuff like this out of the closet and make it public. i really do not want to know if the elmo puppeteer fucked or fucked not a 15 year old boy. could stuff like this maybe not just stay where it belongs, meaning: behind closed doors and in the hands of the juridiction? why does the american public have such a perverted joy to talk about sex, something that should be kept private, in public!? why is there a culture of public humiliation and shaming? its 1650 or what? worst thing is that slowly the same kind of culture is even taking roots in Europe. bible, guns and porn... urgh... i would like to add that all this circus about the privat sex-affairs of presidents and politicians is very strange to look at for a European like me. Now even puppeteers are losing their job because they had “something” (slimy? gross? perverted?) going on in their life that maybe perhaps might not be 100% kosher. i am not sure if the public humiliation of anybody involved in an affair like this makes the world a better place. for me it’s a) just plain weird and b) engrossing to pull stuff like this out of the closet and make it public. i really do not want to know if the elmo puppeteer fucked or fucked not a 15 year old boy. could stuff like this maybe not just stay where it belongs, meaning: behind closed doors and in the hands of the juridiction? why does the american public have such a perverted joy to talk about sex, something that should be kept private, in public!? why is there a culture of public humiliation and shaming? its 1650 or what? worst thing is that slowly the same kind of culture is even taking roots in Europe. bible, guns and porn… urgh…

]]> By: Patrick McGorrill http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1588030 Patrick McGorrill Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1588030 So, regardless of how you feel about it, being sexually interested in 15 year-olds usually isn't pedophilia. Pedophilia is attraction to people who are prepubescent, usually under 13. If the allegations were true, that would probably mean Clash is an ephebophile, someone who is attracted to people in the second half of their adolescence. (Hebephilia is the term for attraction to people who are in early adolescence). It might seem like silly distinctions, but I think a lot of the bullshit around stories like this happens because someone somewhere fails to distinguish, homosexuals, pedophiles, or any other kind of "pervert" as a unique orientation and assumes that they're generally inclined to depravity and evil. So, regardless of how you feel about it, being sexually interested in 15 year-olds usually isn’t pedophilia. Pedophilia is attraction to people who are prepubescent, usually under 13. If the allegations were true, that would probably mean Clash is an ephebophile, someone who is attracted to people in the second half of their adolescence. (Hebephilia is the term for attraction to people who are in early adolescence).
It might seem like silly distinctions, but I think a lot of the bullshit around stories like this happens because someone somewhere fails to distinguish, homosexuals, pedophiles, or any other kind of “pervert” as a unique orientation and assumes that they’re generally inclined to depravity and evil.

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587974 Brainspore Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587974 If you're old enough to remember when Grover was more popular than Elmo then your opinion on the subject probably doesn't really concern the show's producers anyway. If you’re old enough to remember when Grover was more popular than Elmo then your opinion on the subject probably doesn’t really concern the show’s producers anyway.

]]> By: Adela Doiron http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587945 Adela Doiron Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587945  Ask  Doug Hutchison what having a teenage partner gets you so long as it's heterosexual.  Ask  Doug Hutchison what having a teenage partner gets you so long as it’s heterosexual.

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587922 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587922 If you think that the things I'm saying are contradictory, then you're mis-reading what I'm saying and ignoring my replies. Either you're being vindictive for fun or you're being intentionally obtuse. In either case, you've badly misinterpreted my comments. Stop doing so. If you think that the things I’m saying are contradictory, then you’re mis-reading what I’m saying and ignoring my replies.

Either you’re being vindictive for fun or you’re being intentionally obtuse. In either case, you’ve badly misinterpreted my comments. Stop doing so.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587893 acerplatanoides Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587893 I see you saying contradictory things. I point it out. Please understand that.  I see you saying contradictory things. I point it out. Please understand that. 

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587876 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587876 It's funny that when someone else, like myself, says that we shouldn't rush to judgement and that both sides are innocent until proven guilty, you decide that they're suspiciously sympathetic towards the accused and should be held in contempt. I'm saying the same thing you're saying. Please understand that. It’s funny that when someone else, like myself, says that we shouldn’t rush to judgement and that both sides are innocent until proven guilty, you decide that they’re suspiciously sympathetic towards the accused and should be held in contempt.

I’m saying the same thing you’re saying. Please understand that.

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587871 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587871 Careful, I just said the same thing above, and was accused of being complicit and overly sympathetic with Kevin Clash. There's touchy people here who like taking comments out of context. Careful, I just said the same thing above, and was accused of being complicit and overly sympathetic with Kevin Clash. There’s touchy people here who like taking comments out of context.

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587868 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587868 You are now trolling me, pretending I'm saying things I didn't say, and insisting that I have motives that I don't have. I'm not okay with that. You are now trolling me, pretending I’m saying things I didn’t say, and insisting that I have motives that I don’t have.

I’m not okay with that.

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587867 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587867 Please, please stop taking my words out of context and pretending I'm saying things that I'm not. It's insulting. You're trolling me now, and it's not cool. Please, please stop taking my words out of context and pretending I’m saying things that I’m not. It’s insulting. You’re trolling me now, and it’s not cool.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587866 acerplatanoides Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587866 "I'm not defending Mr Clash, and I'm certainly not omniscient." You're attacking the accuser and claiming knowledge of his motives, so, in reality, you very much are. “I’m not defending Mr Clash, and I’m certainly not omniscient.”

You’re attacking the accuser and claiming knowledge of his motives, so, in reality, you very much are.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587865 acerplatanoides Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587865 @gobo = So we shouldn't rush to conclusions, but it's okay when you do. Different rules for us plebes, then? @gobo = So we shouldn’t rush to conclusions, but it’s okay when you do.

Different rules for us plebes, then?

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587844 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587844 Exactly, DevinC. I agree completely. Exactly, DevinC. I agree completely.

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587840 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587840 As I said, my point is that we shouldn't rush to judgement here or accept a conveniently-timed accusation at face value when large sums of money are involved. I'm not defending Mr Clash, and I'm certainly not omniscient. As you say, I'm simply casting a very suspicious eye on all of this, because his accusers are, you might say, less than trustworthy. That's my "motive". Please don't assume my post means anything more than that. Why are you rushing to cast me as an enabler here? As I said, my point is that we shouldn’t rush to judgement here or accept a conveniently-timed accusation at face value when large sums of money are involved. I’m not defending Mr Clash, and I’m certainly not omniscient. As you say, I’m simply casting a very suspicious eye on all of this, because his accusers are, you might say, less than trustworthy. That’s my “motive”.

Please don’t assume my post means anything more than that. Why are you rushing to cast me as an enabler here?

]]> By: gobo http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587834 gobo Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587834 My entire point is that we shouldn't rush to any conclusions, nor should we take anything at face value when enormous sums of money are involved. There's a lot of rushing to judgement and I'd prefer we avoided that. What conclusions did you think I reached? My entire point is that we shouldn’t rush to any conclusions, nor should we take anything at face value when enormous sums of money are involved. There’s a lot of rushing to judgement and I’d prefer we avoided that. What conclusions did you think I reached?

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587801 acerplatanoides Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587801 gobo doesn't seem concerned with you, or gobo, leaping to a conclusion. What's the rush gobo? gobo doesn’t seem concerned with you, or gobo, leaping to a conclusion.

What’s the rush gobo?

]]> By: Lurking_Grue http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587797 Lurking_Grue Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587797 I so want to see Yoda say to luke: First understand you must....  NEAR..... FAR..... NEAR.... FAR.... I so want to see Yoda say to luke: First understand you must….  NEAR….. FAR….. NEAR…. FAR….

]]> By: Changasyncadango Robotnik Terh http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587796 Changasyncadango Robotnik Terh Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587796 I have to wonder if as much fuss would be made if Clash were straight. That he's gay is what I think is making this more of a fuss than it might be if he weren't.  But what do I know.  I always loved Grover more. I have to wonder if as much fuss would be made if Clash were straight. That he’s gay is what I think is making this more of a fuss than it might be if he weren’t.  But what do I know.  I always loved Grover more.

]]> By: acerplatanoides http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587793 acerplatanoides Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587793 glad to. "Isn't it convenient the way people suddenly remember being 'forced' to have sex with famous, rich people as soon as other people file lawsuits?" and I say it's much more convenient for the accused that people like you are willing to leap to their defense, and not equally to the defense of the accuser. It's exactly as convenient, and I am going for exactly the same suspicious tone that you seem to have been when you popped in to defend the accused with your omniscience. Why claim a position, when facts are not yet out, if not to cause prejudgement and more confusion? What do you gain by taking sides at this point? What does the innocent party gain, and are you so sure you're on that side? What's your motive, your goal? glad to. “Isn’t it convenient the way people suddenly remember being ‘forced’ to have sex with famous, rich people as soon as other people file lawsuits?”

and I say it’s much more convenient for the accused that people like you are willing to leap to their defense, and not equally to the defense of the accuser.

It’s exactly as convenient, and I am going for exactly the same suspicious tone that you seem to have been when you popped in to defend the accused with your omniscience.

Why claim a position, when facts are not yet out, if not to cause prejudgement and more confusion?

What do you gain by taking sides at this point? What does the innocent party gain, and are you so sure you’re on that side? What’s your motive, your goal?

]]> By: Lurking_Grue http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587794 Lurking_Grue Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587794 Watch the Duck Dodgers series.   The people doing the voices for that did a damn good job. Watch the Duck Dodgers series.   The people doing the voices for that did a damn good job.

]]> By: Jim Christian  http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587795 Jim Christian  Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587795 Damn straight we did. Damn straight we did.

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2012/11/20/clash-leaving-sesame-street.html#comment-1587790 Brainspore Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=195207#comment-1587790 IMHO Billy West is a worthy heir to Blanc's legacy. He does a crazy good Popeye too. IMHO Billy West is a worthy heir to Blanc’s legacy. He does a crazy good Popeye too.

]]>