Comments on: Kiki and Bubu: neo-Marxist sock puppets join dating service, get friended by China, get taken down from YouTube http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 04:50:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Johannes Grenzfurthner http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1593441 Johannes Grenzfurthner Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1593441 I have this discussion all the time. Not even about our work, but about art in general. Art is polyvalent, and asking (even calling!) for clarity -- a very subjective criterium -- is a common rhetoric gesture, but not very helpful. We are (referring to the school of thought you are asking for) first and foremost leftists, with friendly ties to the Situationist agenda and Post-Structuralist philosophy. And we like to tell stories. Your say that we 'purposefully conceal messages,' but you could also call it 'poetry.' I have this discussion all the time. Not even about our work, but about art in general. Art is polyvalent, and asking (even calling!) for clarity — a very subjective criterium — is a common rhetoric gesture, but not very helpful.
We are (referring to the school of thought you are asking for) first and foremost leftists, with friendly ties to the Situationist agenda and Post-Structuralist philosophy. And we like to tell stories. Your say that we ‘purposefully conceal messages,’ but you could also call it ‘poetry.’

]]> By: eldritch http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1593235 eldritch Wed, 28 Nov 2012 02:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1593235 Which would seem to reinforce my point that the material is obtuse and confusing. I can't speak about "Rated R Us", having no direct contact with it, but lack of clarity seems to be something of a hallmark of monochrom works. There's a message there, somewhere, but without fail it is hidden, purposefully concealed. Why? For what reason? What benefit is there in being so obtuse? If you have legitimate statements to make, why not make them in a way that they will actually be understood by those who aren't already so enamored with your views and methods that they'll patienty sift through the chaff to get to the grain? Everything monochrom does feels like a giant in-joke, or snide insider criticism of others. Even when a monochrom work has something good to say, it feels like it's saying it mockingly and for the unkind amusement of those who already share monochrom's point of view. There's a thin line between satire and self indulgence. I suppose my major complaint is that monochrom seems to me to somewhat inelegantly straddle that line, almost purposefully. Just my two cents. Which would seem to reinforce my point that the material is obtuse and confusing. I can’t speak about “Rated R Us”, having no direct contact with it, but lack of clarity seems to be something of a hallmark of monochrom works. There’s a message there, somewhere, but without fail it is hidden, purposefully concealed. Why? For what reason?

What benefit is there in being so obtuse? If you have legitimate statements to make, why not make them in a way that they will actually be understood by those who aren’t already so enamored with your views and methods that they’ll patienty sift through the chaff to get to the grain? Everything monochrom does feels like a giant in-joke, or snide insider criticism of others. Even when a monochrom work has something good to say, it feels like it’s saying it mockingly and for the unkind amusement of those who already share monochrom’s point of view.

There’s a thin line between satire and self indulgence. I suppose my major complaint is that monochrom seems to me to somewhat inelegantly straddle that line, almost purposefully. Just my two cents.

]]> By: Johannes Grenzfurthner http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591424 Johannes Grenzfurthner Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591424  Thanks!  Thanks!

]]> By: Felton / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591421 Felton / Moderator Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591421 There's no way to delete your own posts, but if you edit them to say "delete," we'll do it. There’s no way to delete your own posts, but if you edit them to say “delete,” we’ll do it.

]]> By: Johannes Grenzfurthner http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591408 Johannes Grenzfurthner Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591408 Interesting side story. We showed the video at the Biennial in Venice, and some strange Italian right-wing blog reported that we got funding from the Communist Party of China. Darn, what a great conspiracy. Interesting side story. We showed the video at the Biennial in Venice, and some strange Italian right-wing blog reported that we got funding from the Communist Party of China. Darn, what a great conspiracy.

]]> By: bumblebeeeeeee http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591407 bumblebeeeeeee Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591407 so it's just BS? so it’s just BS?

]]> By: J. Grenzfurthner http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591403 J. Grenzfurthner Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591403 To paraphrase Foucault: It's not important what you want to know, but why you want to know it. I can assure you there is a lot of straight-forward criticism in "Rated R Us" -- but a) maybe not the one you are looking for and b) not in the way you want it served. To paraphrase Foucault: It’s not important what you want to know, but why you want to know it.
I can assure you there is a lot of straight-forward criticism in “Rated R Us” — but a) maybe not the one you are looking for and b) not in the way you want it served.

]]> By: J. Grenzfurthner http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591399 J. Grenzfurthner Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591399 Meta-question: how do I delete posts? Meta-question: how do I delete posts?

]]> By: eldritch http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591389 eldritch Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591389 Oh, monochrom. I wish so bad you made any sort of sense, or had any sort of point. You're like artsy trolls who fail to realize they are trolls. You put so much effort into making strange and bizarre things that could in theory be cool - I want to like them, I really do! - but somehow it always just comes across as an exercise in purposeful obtuseness and confusing people for shits and giggles. It's like Dadaism, but without the underlying satirical criticism of a specific school of thought. Oh, monochrom. I wish so bad you made any sort of sense, or had any sort of point. You’re like artsy trolls who fail to realize they are trolls. You put so much effort into making strange and bizarre things that could in theory be cool – I want to like them, I really do! – but somehow it always just comes across as an exercise in purposeful obtuseness and confusing people for shits and giggles.

It’s like Dadaism, but without the underlying satirical criticism of a specific school of thought.

]]> By: J. Grenzfurthner http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591385 J. Grenzfurthner Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591385 There are 5 other episodes of Kiki and Bubu, and they are between 2 and 7 minutes. There are 5 other episodes of Kiki and Bubu, and they are between 2 and 7 minutes.

]]> By: Sirkowski http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591353 Sirkowski Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591353 A million is a statistic, amirite? A million is a statistic, amirite?

]]> By: FoolishOwl http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591299 FoolishOwl Mon, 26 Nov 2012 03:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591299 There's something about this video that makes it very difficult for me to make a joke about it. EDIT: It's not exactly fast-paced, but the pacing and child-like styling makes the build-up to jokes all the better. "Let's leave creationism to the liberals, Bubu. They need easy targets to try their lame weapons of criticism on." There’s something about this video that makes it very difficult for me to make a joke about it.

EDIT: It’s not exactly fast-paced, but the pacing and child-like styling makes the build-up to jokes all the better.
“Let’s leave creationism to the liberals, Bubu. They need easy targets to try their lame weapons of criticism on.”

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591297 Boundegar Mon, 26 Nov 2012 03:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591297 Some of the people of China are male.  Some are female. Some of the people of China are male.  Some are female.

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591296 Boundegar Mon, 26 Nov 2012 03:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591296 I needed about 5 minutes of that. I needed about 5 minutes of that.

]]> By: FoolishOwl http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591287 FoolishOwl Mon, 26 Nov 2012 03:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591287 eHarmony rejects applications by atheists, so I'm not sure how neoMarxist sock puppets or the People of China would meet. It also rejects applicants seeking same-sex relationships, though I'm not sure of the gender of Kiki, Bubu, or the People of China. eHarmony rejects applications by atheists, so I’m not sure how neoMarxist sock puppets or the People of China would meet. It also rejects applicants seeking same-sex relationships, though I’m not sure of the gender of Kiki, Bubu, or the People of China.

]]> By: Punchcard http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591255 Punchcard Mon, 26 Nov 2012 02:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591255 It certainly is long. It certainly is long.

]]> By: SedanChair http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591234 SedanChair Mon, 26 Nov 2012 01:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591234 BUT MARXISM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL DEATHS EVER BUT MARXISM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL DEATHS EVER

]]> By: Itsumishi http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591205 Itsumishi Mon, 26 Nov 2012 00:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591205 Is the featuring of Jabba's Palace Fair Use? Is the featuring of Jabba’s Palace Fair Use?

]]> By: bumblebeeeeeee http://boingboing.net/2012/11/25/kiki-and-bubu-neo-marxist-soc.html#comment-1591200 bumblebeeeeeee Mon, 26 Nov 2012 00:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=196022#comment-1591200 what? what?

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