Judge considers unusual plea deal for accused WikiLeaks source Manning

The Associated Press has details on the unusual plea deal being considered in the case of Bradley Manning, the Army private accused of passing classified documents to Wikileaks.

On Thursday, a military judge, Col. Denise Lind, accepted the terms under which Private Manning would plead guilty to eight charges for sending classified documents to WikiLeaks.
The judge’s ruling does not mean the pleas have been formally accepted. That could happen in December.
But she approved the language of the offenses to which Private Manning would admit, which she said would carry a total maximum prison term of 16 years.
Private Manning made the offer as a way of accepting responsibility for the leaks. Government officials have not said whether they would continue prosecuting him for the other 14 counts he faces, including aiding the enemy. That offense carries a maximum penalty of life in prison.

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nowimnothing

Not great, but a lot better than life. Especially if they do not go for the maximum and he gets time served for the past two years of incarceration.
http://www.facebook.com/dhosek Don Hosek

I’m still not entirely clear about what the unusual language was: Is it because of the “I’ve suffered enough” thing?
perch

It really bothers me that everyone constantly misgenders Breanna Manning. She is trans and nobody ever mentions this, erasing her identity and she can do little about it right now.
- http://twitter.com/trempls tré
  
  THIS. This this this this this. We always talk about her in radical and progressive circles, the least we could do is act like it.
- ChickieD
  
  Wait. Really? I had no idea.
  - perch
    
    http://globalcomment.com/why-does-the-media-still-refer-to-%E2%80%9Cbradley%E2%80%9D-manning-the-curious-silence-around-a-transgender-hero/
    
    “I wouldn’t mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn’t for the possibility of having pictures of me… plastered all over the world press… as boy…”
    - ChickieD
      
      Wow. Interesting. I learned something new today. Somehow it changes my perception of this case but I can’t grab hold of exactly how.
    - Antinous / Moderator
      
      Is there a version of that quote that isn’t full of ellipses?
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Aguirre/10601304 John Aguirre
        
        The quote is directly from the transcript of the IM conversation of Pvt. Manning and Adrian Lamo. If memory serves me right, a lot of ellipses were used, as they commonly are in such IM conversations. I do not think it’s part of any redaction. I would have to look up the transcript again to be sure, though.
        
        EDIT: Found the transcript: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/07/manning-lamo-logs/
  - DisGuest
    
    I didn’t know either.
- Brainspore
  
  As far as I can tell PFC Manning’s own defense team still refers to the Private as “Bradley.” Has Manning made any public statements to the effect that he/she prefers a female pronoun?
  - http://twitter.com/trempls tré
    
    There’s enough doubt to where we should at the very very least be using neutral language, ie “Private” as opposed to “Bradley.”
gluther

there was a pretty interesting discussion about the conditions he’s had to endure, the lack of response to medical official’s recommendations, and their plea offer on Democracy Now today (Nov 30th) as well….
http://echofox3.blogspot.com efergus3

Oddly enough, I’m still waiting to hear about all those deaths caused by the leaked info. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And … Wait – could they be lying to us?!
- http://cobramcgiantballs.tumblr.com/ Xploder
  
  Yeah, I haven’t heard of any either. What I was saying was that there is always the possibility of deaths caused by leaked information. I apologize as I should have tried to be more clear.
http://twitter.com/trempls tré

I don’t think @boingboing-a8ec37bdc513cddee11a2bb274a0f83a:disqus was using Breanna’s gender as a defense, just saying that we should use “Breanna” and “she/her” instead of “Bradley” and “he/him.”
lknope

I don’t mind Manning serving prison time after a court of law decides it. What I mind is the 3 years of prison time spent before Manning went to court. Not to mention the sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, sleeping naked or what some might call torture.
Brainspore

Who knows if what (s)he released helped kill other soldiers and civilians.

Or, conversely, if it helped prevent the killings of other soldiers and civilians. Would we have been better off if Mai Lai had been successfully hushed up?
strangefriend

To be honest, Xploder, we don’t care about your jingoistic BS about Ms./Mr. Manning. The DOD has admitted they can’t point to any death caused by the leaks, & the ‘aiding the enemy’ charge is just to whip up hysteria. Manning’s actions were the highest sort of patriotism. S/he should get a Medal of Freedom.
Origami_Isopod

For someone who “doesn’t care” about Manning’s gender identity, you’re doing a great job of sounding like a transphobe who thinks that transgender is something to sneer at.
ChicagoD

Manning may have done the country a service. Of course, since neither Manning nor Wikileaks actually reviewed what was being released, that would be entirely by accident, wouldn’t it?

Ah, the accidental Medal of Freedom. The best kind.
http://cobramcgiantballs.tumblr.com/ Xploder

Sorry. I really didn’t mean to sound so jingoistic. I think that I’ll just have to be a disagreeing asshole because I disagree with your assessment that he should get a Medal of Freedom for breaking regulations. That’s totally asinine.
strangefriend

Oh, there have been people who got medals ‘by accident’ before. It’s not unheard of.
wysinwyg

1. Iraq war.
2. 2008 financial crisis.

Two huge crimes; not only has no one been punished for either but we’ve been assured by the federal government than no one ever will be punished for either. It’s fairly straight-forward to demonstrate that both of these crimes caused a fair number of deaths and other forms of human misery.

Manning gets no less than 16 years for a crime that has not been linked to any deaths; the misery seems to consist of embarrassment on the part of a few diplomats.

You law-and-order types always seem kinda selective about who the law gets applied to.
EH

More transparency always increases democracy. It’s fundamentally better that Manning did this, regardless of intent or predictive powers.
ChicagoD

Intentional law breaking without knowing whether you are actually doing a good thing for the country < accidental medals
http://cobramcgiantballs.tumblr.com/ Xploder

Agreed 100%. Nobody including known prisoners of war should ever be subjected to that sort of thing. It’s ridiculous in this day and age.
http://cobramcgiantballs.tumblr.com/ Xploder

I agree with you on this part. Unfortunately, I’ve been without sleep for three days now and my mind was focused only on what I see as the soldier aspect 0 as in what if one of my buddies were to be killed because of this. You’re right of course. It’s entirely possible that it helped prevent more killings. I unfortunately doubt it though. Having spent ten years in the Army, I know how the military mind tends to work. To be honest, if you’re in a battle zone, you’re senses are seriously keyed up to the point where you tend to shoot anything that you see. There are very few soldiers that have the training to stay aware enough to avoid the killing of unarmed opponents.

When it comes to the Mai Lai incident, I don’t think it would have made that much of a difference overall as there were horrible things happening on both sides during that conflict. That’s just the one that got out. There are probably a lot more that we’ll never know about
Antinous / Moderator

I think that you’ve conflated My Lai with Mai Tai.
http://cobramcgiantballs.tumblr.com/ Xploder

Call me whatever the hell you want to. My son is gay and that’s just peachy keen with me. I’ve never had any problem with transgendered individuals. The reason I used the (s)he was because I don’t really know if I should be calling him he or she so I combined the two. If you think that makes me sound like a transphobe then maybe you shouldn’t look for things that aren’t there.
ChicagoD

Who, and I mean with specificity and in keeping with the actual laws we have, would you like to prosecute for the financial crisis. Don’t say “bankers” because that’s not an answer.

The Iraq war is a somewhat easier case, but you’fd have to show scienter on the part of the people building the case, rather than just stupidity and blind belief.
http://cobramcgiantballs.tumblr.com/ Xploder

Personally, I think that the law should be applied equally to everyone. It’s too damn bad that the ones that need it applied to them the most are the ones that make the damn laws so we’re screwed.
wysinwyg

Unfortunately for your argument you are talking to someone who does not believe law is equivalent to morality. As Xploder points out, the ones breaking the laws most egregiously are also the ones writing and enforcing the laws in the first place.

So a good-faith (bad-practice) whisteblower like Manning gets something between 16 years and life and the ghouls who perpetrated the war in Iraq are free from consequences.

After all, we must always look forward and not backward — unless it’s regular folks on the docket.

Scienter.
ChicagoD

Fortunately it is entirely irrelevant that you would use your personal morality instead of laws to govern a country.

Unless you’re a dictator. You’re not a dictator, are you?
Boundegar

Actually, many of the bad actors in the subprime mess are well known, and basking in their billions, and the DOJ has made it clear they have no intention to prosecute. This is not secret information, unless you work for the MSM.
http://twitter.com/bradbelltv Brad Bell

The S&L scandal in the 80s provides a model for what kind of prosecutions could be expected: a relatively teeny scandal with thousands of cases. In contrast, a scandal of unprecedented magnitude generates nearly zero prosecutions.
strangefriend

Bankers. What, do you believe that the mortgage crisis was caused by minorities? Dude, step away from Fox News.
travtastic

there were horrible things happening on both sides during that conflict

Oh, so there were atrocities being committed by the VC, the US, and the innocent civilians that we were butchering?
strangefriend

Informing the public of war crimes & other official malfeasance > intentional law breaking.
strangefriend

Hey, ChiD, ‘<' means 'lesser than.' I think you need to edit your post. Or were you agreeing with me that Manning's leaks were a good thing? If so, sorry, my bad.