Comments on: Pret fires longstanding employee who attempted to unionise, asked for the London Living Wage for all employees

By: Angela Louise Chicken

Angela Louise Chicken — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:19:00 +0000

I just challenged Pret and they gave the response above. So, what’s the truth?

By: Mathias Maul

Mathias Maul — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:33:00 +0000

There’s a new (?) statement here: http://www.pret.com/about/Statement_Andrej_Stopa.htm

If this proves to be true, the shitstorm has been directed at the wrong person.

By: Brian Whelan

Brian Whelan — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:12:00 +0000

Andrej is currently away.

By: MyrddinWilt

MyrddinWilt — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:42:00 +0000

To file a claim for unfair dismissal an employee has to first exhaust the company appeals procedure (if it exists).

At this point we only have one side of the story. But sacking someone for organizing is not only illegal in the UK, there are courts to hear precisely that type of complaint.

Unless the company has a very clear case they are going to get slammed here. And unlike in the US where the redress would only be damages, an industrial tribunal can order reinstatement and other remedies.

Sacking a union organizer is a good way to end up unionized.

By: Henry Dorsett Case

Henry Dorsett Case — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:11:00 +0000

http://www.pret.com/about/Statement_Andrej_Stopa.htm

Let`s ask Andrej now. True or false? It wouldn`t be the first case if a large company try to black your name, but it could be the other way around as well. So?

By: Ruthie

Ruthie — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:17:00 +0000

Halal and Kosher slaughter both kill animals only at the jugular vein which means they pass out straight away. It’s been the kindest method for thousands of years and is still kinder then some methods.

By: Faustus

Faustus — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:07:00 +0000

Well yeah, it is. Halal is a horrible method of killing animals. Just because we’re meat eating barbarians doesn’t mean we have to be cruel meat eating barbarians.

By: elix

elix — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:29:00 +0000

How many Pret employees are there in London? (I don’t know the answer, but I’m sure it’s more than 20.)

This is just the cost of business, to them. Here’s hoping it blows up in their faces in a massive way and spanks them for taking the risk that they wouldn’t get properly punished.

By: Symbiote

Symbiote — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 22:43:00 +0000

Even with my university education, I don’t see an opinion in my earlier comment. You seem to have presumed one for me, so I think you’re in an excellent position to continue the discussion without me.

Think about it, and do let me know what my conclusion is.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 22:02:00 +0000

I would have replied, “I’m sorry. It’s our policy to only give out dates of employment.”

By: Diogenes

Diogenes — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 21:13:00 +0000

Not from what I’ve seen. The owners and executives that rise the highest and fastest are generally those with the least concern for their fellow man. There are wonderful exceptions, but they aren’t the rule.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904823804576502763895892974.html

By: Mel Taylor

Mel Taylor — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 18:53:00 +0000

And that’s how you expect someone to live their life, not just their student years? And without the assistance of cheap union bars? Is that how you would like to live your entire life? Think about it. Carefully. Use your university education…

By: Josh Jasper

Josh Jasper — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:01:00 +0000

Right, because meat found at Pret is more ethical? I eat meat. If you can’t cope with that, I don’t care.

By: heng

heng — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:31:00 +0000

Though the ethical issues surrounding halal should not be ignored.

By: heng

heng — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:27:00 +0000

I rather think your diagnosis is somewhat simplistic. A huge number of people have been conditioned to think that business means “have no conscience”. It’s not helped by things like The Apprentice reinforcing such a view. Most people would show conscience when it came to say, their children, or their spouse.

By: Nathan Hornby

Nathan Hornby — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:20:00 +0000

I don’t know for sure, I’m certainly no employment law expert – but it would seem unusual to me if they’re able to request or pass on medical information, because its confidential. Unless there’s some caveat im unaware of. They could certainly state that she was off work through illness, and give the number of days, but I think it’d be up to the new employer to find out why – as far as I’m aware.

But references are very much the norm, however most will be requested after offering the position, to avoid the obvious, “oh, so you’re leaving?” questions from your boss.

By: John Mulloy

John Mulloy — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 15:52:00 +0000

Some employers ask “would you hire that person again?” to get around the legal issues of saying something specific.

By: Carsten Agger

Carsten Agger — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 14:19:00 +0000

My girl friend lives in the UK, and she says that all employers (in her line of work, which has been university research and charities) insist on getting a reference from the current employer. This sounds pretty barbarian to me (I’d never even tell my current employer if I’m looking for another job before I hand in my resignation), but in one case she had to go through an extended interview process because her current employer (the Open University) told the prospective one (a charity in Oxford) she suffered from depression and had had some month’s absence. In the end she did get the job, though.

But if you’re sure that passing on that kind of information is illegal, it’d be very helpful if you give me a link to the details. At the time, of course I remember it wasn’t very helpful at all that they did so.

By: noonereallycares

noonereallycares — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 12:07:00 +0000

As your extended quote says, they chose to rely on getting the collective staff to support each other instead of relying on the law. I fail to see how your carefully extended quote does anything to change the meaning of the text. They go so far as to suggest that the law is interchangeable with the “goodwill” of the employer. This shows a distinct level of disdain for the legal processes.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 11:30:00 +0000

In the US, past employers will generally only confirm start and stop dates for employment, not because of government regulations, but to avoid lawsuits.

By: Nathan Hornby

Nathan Hornby — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 10:40:00 +0000

Re the blacklist- I hadn’t heard anything about that, but it sounds pretty niche, job-wise, ie between handful of companies.

By: Nathan Hornby

Nathan Hornby — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 10:38:00 +0000

Depends. The point is there’s legal provision to prevent past employers telling new employers that you’re a waste of space.

ie. if a new employer asks specifically what your attendance record is like, then the previous employer is of course inclined to answer, but it would have to be like

“Jimmy had 3 sick days during his employment at Acme Co”

Not

“Jimmy is a slacker that’s always taking sick days – avoid”.

Hopefully that makes sense. Other than that I don’t think they should be asking about your health, unless your previous employer is also your doctor :)

By: Carsten Agger

Carsten Agger — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 08:52:00 +0000

Well, there’s this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/04/blacklisting-scandal-corporate-spying

What exactly do you mean btw that employers are not allowed to give a negative reference? I’m sure they’re allowed to mention health issues & such or be “vague” enough about performance to constitute negativity?

By: Daniel Earwicker

Daniel Earwicker — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 08:16:00 +0000

“there was some kind of hearing internal to Pret that would have inclued Andrej, but which was changed at 24 hours notice with the result that he could not attend.”

Fudge tried the same trick in Order of the Phoenix.

By: Josh Jasper

Josh Jasper — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 05:10:00 +0000

There’s a nice Halal cart guy at the corner of my office who makes a full plate of lamb rice with white, hot or BBQ sauce for five dollars US. It is three times the amount of food, and five times the flavour of a Pret sandwich.

Are there not as many of these type of businesses in London? I didn’t see as much street food last I was there, but I didn’t think to look.

By: Diogenes

Diogenes — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 04:58:00 +0000

They have no trouble sleeping at night because they have no conscience to bother them. I’ve worked for/with people like that. It’s amazing to see them in action. When they deal with subordinates they’re like a cat with a mouse. With their bosses they’re the oilier than a canned mackerel. True sociopaths.

By: Ping Kee

Ping Kee — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 04:41:00 +0000

Okay, so it would take a minimum wage employee there about 30 minutes to earn the money for a sandwich. In Hong Kong, it takes an hour. That is, I think, an interesting comparison.

Thanks for the data.

By: Symbiote

Symbiote — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 01:40:00 +0000

I can only remember going to the one at Heathrow, which might have slightly higher prices, but I think a sandwich would be about £3-£5 (mostly £3-3.50, unless you’re finding the one with salmon and crayfish).

Minimum wage is £6.19/hr.

A sandwich from a supermarket is about £1-£4. £1 gets you awful white bread with a single slice of ham, or a mean helping of grated cheese.

By: Symbiote

Symbiote — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 01:33:00 +0000

I lived in London for four years while I was at university, and I estimate I spent less than £8000 a year (and I only went back to my parents’ house for one of the summers, the rest I spent in London).

Look on Gumtree and you’ll see loads of rooms in shared houses/flats for £70-£100/wk. A shared room is a little over half that price, if you’re *really* keen to live centrally. (Most students will group together with friends to rent a place between them, but plenty of people share houses/flats after university, or if they didn’t go.)

By: Ping Kee

Ping Kee — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 00:39:00 +0000

This is very interesting. Pret A Manger appeared in Hong Kong about 10 years ago, and they must have 10 outlets by now. It sells overpriced sandwiches and seems to employ a lot of Filipinos. They use the term “passionate” a lot.

FYI: Hong Kong recently legislated for a minimum wage, and it was set at HKD28/hour (£2.25). I’d be surprised if PAM was paying much more than that. I doubt if it’s possible to purchase a sandwich for less than HKD28, so counter staff would need to work for an hour to buy a simple lunch. I’d be interested to know how long counter staff in London need to work to buy a sandwich. Anyone know?