Comments on: Congressman calls for ban on 3D printed guns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Mon, 20 May 2013 19:11:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: R_Young http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1606924 R_Young Fri, 14 Dec 2012 01:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1606924 You seem like a nice chap.  We should go to the beach sometime. You seem like a nice chap.  We should go to the beach sometime.

]]> By: Jeremy Bowers http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1606825 Jeremy Bowers Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1606825 lawlessness is true freedom. Its found in nature and has balanced the world for millions of years. You speak like your a farely intelligent individual but your naive about your true nature, perhaps your day will come when your dearly beloved laws come to devour you and all that's left is the animal instinct to react and survive... lawlessness is true freedom. Its found in nature and has balanced the world for millions of years. You speak like your a farely intelligent individual but your naive about your true nature, perhaps your day will come when your dearly beloved laws come to devour you and all that’s left is the animal instinct to react and survive…

]]> By: Matthew Montgomery http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1606246 Matthew Montgomery Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1606246 Thats an interesting thought, "unenforceable laws". But doesn't that depend on the individual? What might be enforceable on one person, might be totally unenforceable on another (person B being more stubborn than person A). Just something I thought when read your remark above. :-) I would agree that there are laws that are in effect or that could be put into effect that would erode trust in the state and invite corruption. But is the reason for that 'enforceability' or something more basic to human nature? Thats an interesting thought, “unenforceable laws”. But doesn’t that depend on the individual? What might be enforceable on one person, might be totally unenforceable on another (person B being more stubborn than person A). Just something I thought when read your remark above. :-)

I would agree that there are laws that are in effect or that could be put into effect that would erode trust in the state and invite corruption. But is the reason for that ‘enforceability’ or something more basic to human nature?

]]> By: Wyrdless http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604755 Wyrdless Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604755 With regard to unenforceable laws, Machiavelli would agree and said as much in 'the 10 discourses on Titus Livy' He also said that unenforceable laws make enforcers capricious which erodes trust in the state and invites corruption With regard to unenforceable laws, Machiavelli would agree and said as much in ‘the 10 discourses on Titus Livy’

He also said that unenforceable laws make enforcers capricious which erodes trust in the state and invites corruption

]]> By: R_Young http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604727 R_Young Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604727 No, I was trying to point out that some laws are sensible and necessary (DD laws), and some less so.  Where does this one fall?  I'd say towards the later end, but I'm really not the most informed.   So why am I posting?  who the hell knows. No, I was trying to point out that some laws are sensible and necessary (DD laws), and some less so.  Where does this one fall?  I’d say towards the later end, but I’m really not the most informed.  

So why am I posting?  who the hell knows.

]]> By: Karl Schneider http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604623 Karl Schneider Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604623  That will put one hell of a dent in the 4-40 socket head screw business...  That will put one hell of a dent in the 4-40 socket head screw business…

]]> By: kringlebertfistyebuns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604449 kringlebertfistyebuns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604449 It's a state-by-state thing. - Most states require a permit to carry a concealed firearm (only Illinois and DC outlaw it altogether AFAICT). - Most of the states who permit concealed carry, however, also have a "shall-issue" clause in their laws, requiring the issuance of a carry permit unless there's a good reason not to. - A majority (27 by my count) do NOT require a permit to carry a firearm openly, however. - Twelve more allow open-carry with licensing/restrictions. - Seven states (including Texas, if you can believe it) basically outlaw openly carrying firearms.   - Seven states by my count require a permit to purchase handguns specifically, with varying restrictions. - Six more require a permit to purchase ANY kind of firearm.   It’s a state-by-state thing.

- Most states require a permit to carry a concealed firearm (only Illinois and DC outlaw it altogether AFAICT).

- Most of the states who permit concealed carry, however, also have a “shall-issue” clause in their laws, requiring the issuance of a carry permit unless there’s a good reason not to.

- A majority (27 by my count) do NOT require a permit to carry a firearm openly, however.

- Twelve more allow open-carry with licensing/restrictions.

- Seven states (including Texas, if you can believe it) basically outlaw openly carrying firearms.  

- Seven states by my count require a permit to purchase handguns specifically, with varying restrictions.

- Six more require a permit to purchase ANY kind of firearm.  

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604389 Nathan Hornby Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604389 But a car is a mode of transport, and a handgun is an instrument of death - it's a bit apples and pairs. A car can kill a person if it's operated incorrectly, a gun kills someone if it's operated correctly. Besides do you need a license to own a gun in the US? Or is it dependent on state? TV has taught me that there's just some kind of holding period (and on occasion, a gun show out back). But a car is a mode of transport, and a handgun is an instrument of death – it’s a bit apples and pairs. A car can kill a person if it’s operated incorrectly, a gun kills someone if it’s operated correctly.

Besides do you need a license to own a gun in the US? Or is it dependent on state? TV has taught me that there’s just some kind of holding period (and on occasion, a gun show out back).

]]> By: kringlebertfistyebuns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604382 kringlebertfistyebuns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604382 Well, to use a somewhat-hackneyed comparison, it's like another inherently dangerous implement - a car.   Unless you're adjudicated to be too dangerous to drive, or aren't of age, you can get a license and operate a motor vehicle.   And in point of fact, there is also a criminal background check involved in a gun purchase.  Every gun sold at retail, at least.  Well, to use a somewhat-hackneyed comparison, it’s like another inherently dangerous implement – a car.  

Unless you’re adjudicated to be too dangerous to drive, or aren’t of age, you can get a license and operate a motor vehicle.  

And in point of fact, there is also a criminal background check involved in a gun purchase.  Every gun sold at retail, at least. 

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604366 Nathan Hornby Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604366 I get why, from a constitutional perspective it makes sense - it just sounds a bit wrong! I get why, from a constitutional perspective it makes sense – it just sounds a bit wrong!

]]> By: kringlebertfistyebuns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604358 kringlebertfistyebuns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604358 It flows in part from the concept of negative rights.   It flows in part from the concept of negative rights.  

]]> By: R Andrew Ohge http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604241 R Andrew Ohge Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604241 Well...all this is going to do is teach geeks the world over you can print weaponry with this tech. Simple guns are just the beginning...with a little "sci-fi" imagination and some degrees from MIT or Stanford-who knows what might be available from your friendly neighborhood hood. Of course, passing this law has other more important implications-new bloated budgets for the impossible task of enforcement. The true collateral damage? Our streets and wallets. Puh-leezzz...don't act surprised after the last decade. Well…all this is going to do is teach geeks the world over you can print weaponry with this tech. Simple guns are just the beginning…with a little “sci-fi” imagination and some degrees from MIT or Stanford-who knows what might be available from your friendly neighborhood hood.

Of course, passing this law has other more important implications-new bloated budgets for the impossible task of enforcement. The true collateral damage? Our streets and wallets.

Puh-leezzz…don’t act surprised after the last decade.

]]> By: Nomen Nescio http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604167 Nomen Nescio Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604167 a quick web search finds: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing which cites "18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105". you should be able to look up the actual statutes in any federal depository library, and those are more common than you'd think; even the community college library in my small midwestern town is one. does that help? a quick web search finds: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing which cites “18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105″. you should be able to look up the actual statutes in any federal depository library, and those are more common than you’d think; even the community college library in my small midwestern town is one. does that help?

]]> By: Conan Librarian http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604101 Conan Librarian Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604101 I can print currency just fine, I don't use non-free software. I can print currency just fine, I don’t use non-free software.

]]> By: Zacqary Adam Green http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604020 Zacqary Adam Green Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604020 Could you link me to the existing laws regarding homemade firearms? I'm trying to arrange a meeting with Steve Israel (he's my congressman) about this, so I need all the logic I can get my hands on. Could you link me to the existing laws regarding homemade firearms? I’m trying to arrange a meeting with Steve Israel (he’s my congressman) about this, so I need all the logic I can get my hands on.

]]> By: headcode http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1604006 headcode Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1604006 Guns don't kill people, Harbor Freight products do. Guns don’t kill people, Harbor Freight products do.

]]> By: BillStewart2012 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603919 BillStewart2012 Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603919 The important part of the definition of a "banned assault rifle" is that it's a rifle that <i>looks really scary</i> as well as holding a lot of bullets.  3D printing is one way to build the external scary-looking parts (even though it's apparently not a very good way to build most of the bullet-handling parts.) The important part of the definition of a “banned assault rifle” is that it’s a rifle that looks really scary as well as holding a lot of bullets.  3D printing is one way to build the external scary-looking parts (even though it’s apparently not a very good way to build most of the bullet-handling parts.)

]]> By: BillStewart2012 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603913 BillStewart2012 Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603913 Not true at all.  Commercial scanners and printers can prevent you from copying currency because they're required to include functions that recognize easily-recognized markings on the currency.  Recognizing things that <i>could</i> potentially be used as a gun is a much harder problem, and 3-D printers are generally controlled by user-programmable computers. Not true at all.  Commercial scanners and printers can prevent you from copying currency because they’re required to include functions that recognize easily-recognized markings on the currency.  Recognizing things that could potentially be used as a gun is a much harder problem, and 3-D printers are generally controlled by user-programmable computers.

]]> By: BillStewart2012 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603911 BillStewart2012 Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603911 Bullets are simple enough to be molded; no need for 3D printing. As other people have commented, the real limitation for bullets is that plastic isn't heavy enough, though riot police do occasionally kill people with rubber or plastic bullets. Bullets are simple enough to be molded; no need for 3D printing. As other people have commented, the real limitation for bullets is that plastic isn’t heavy enough, though riot police do occasionally kill people with rubber or plastic bullets.

]]> By: BillStewart2012 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603904 BillStewart2012 Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603904 No matter how much people may have enjoyed <i>The Taking of Pelham 123</i>, it's surprisingly difficult to hijack a subway train and do anything useful with it, like drive it to Cuba or crash it into a building.  If the system's designed well, it's also very difficult even to crash it into another train. Other than airports and jails, the only place most Americans frequently go that has metal detectors for security is courthouses, and that's because there was a shooting in one a few years ago, leading to a recognition that many of the people who go there are really angry about something. No matter how much people may have enjoyed The Taking of Pelham 123, it’s surprisingly difficult to hijack a subway train and do anything useful with it, like drive it to Cuba or crash it into a building.  If the system’s designed well, it’s also very difficult even to crash it into another train.

Other than airports and jails, the only place most Americans frequently go that has metal detectors for security is courthouses, and that’s because there was a shooting in one a few years ago, leading to a recognition that many of the people who go there are really angry about something.

]]> By: PavePusher http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603885 PavePusher Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603885 @ Swartzkip: Actually, it can be done with bench-top machine tools from Harbour Freight. (The barrels, that is.) @ Swartzkip: Actually, it can be done with bench-top machine tools from Harbour Freight. (The barrels, that is.)

]]> By: PavePusher http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603883 PavePusher Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603883 But, since you have to have metal parts to make the "gun" operable, it's all a moot point. Gun control - proof that human stupidity will not die.  But, since you have to have metal parts to make the “gun” operable, it’s all a moot point.

Gun control – proof that human stupidity will not die. 

]]> By: Christian Jacobsen http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603739 Christian Jacobsen Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603739 Ever try to put currency on your scanner and scan it? It doesn't work. (Same thing if you try to edit an image of money in Photoshop.) Preventing 3D printers from printing specific parts could be done in the same way. The software just doesn't allow you to do it. Ever try to put currency on your scanner and scan it? It doesn’t work. (Same thing if you try to edit an image of money in Photoshop.)

Preventing 3D printers from printing specific parts could be done in the same way. The software just doesn’t allow you to do it.

]]> By: Jeff Dannaldson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603693 Jeff Dannaldson Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603693 But hey, if you've got a metal shop...I think I could make a functioning (for one or two shots at least) gun almost entirely out of wood. This is exactly the kind of "information wants to be free" issue that we should stand up for. Make a gun for yourself for lawful use, fine. Sell them out of your trunk no questions asked...now there's a problem that law enforcement should be concerned with. But hey, if you’ve got a metal shop…I think I could make a functioning (for one or two shots at least) gun almost entirely out of wood. This is exactly the kind of “information wants to be free” issue that we should stand up for. Make a gun for yourself for lawful use, fine. Sell them out of your trunk no questions asked…now there’s a problem that law enforcement should be concerned with.

]]> By: David P Mayton http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603574 David P Mayton Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603574 It's quite easy to find suitable replacement material for metal barrels, it's called ceramic.  I've seen single shot ceramic tubes with plastic slugs that would be fatal at close range.  Then again, any sharp object at close range is a deadly weapon. It’s quite easy to find suitable replacement material for metal barrels, it’s called ceramic.  I’ve seen single shot ceramic tubes with plastic slugs that would be fatal at close range.  Then again, any sharp object at close range is a deadly weapon.

]]> By: Damian Barajas http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603549 Damian Barajas Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603549 I have a feeling there's something to this. People who want guns should know how to use them once they obtain them and should be responsible with them. But people who don't use guns but want guns available as a matter of principle would not have a responsible culture of gun ownership. I wonder if there's a way to track the correlation between gun usage such as for hunting or sports related activities, registered gun ownership, unregistered gun ownership statistics and violent crime? Or am I over thinking this? I have a feeling there’s something to this.
People who want guns should know how to use them once they obtain them and should be responsible with them.
But people who don’t use guns but want guns available as a matter of principle would not have a responsible culture of gun ownership.

I wonder if there’s a way to track the correlation between gun usage such as for hunting or sports related activities, registered gun ownership, unregistered gun ownership statistics and violent crime?
Or am I over thinking this?

]]> By: Heevee Lister http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603447 Heevee Lister Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603447 Or good guys. Or good guys.

]]> By: Cory http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603443 Cory Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603443 But Gavin, technology doesn't stop from progressing. It's going to become easier and easier and easier to print 3D objects as the technology advances. Right now it's in it's infancy and this is ALREADY an issue. It's only going to get worse. But Gavin, technology doesn’t stop from progressing. It’s going to become easier and easier and easier to print 3D objects as the technology advances. Right now it’s in it’s infancy and this is ALREADY an issue. It’s only going to get worse.

]]> By: Dave O'Connor http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603441 Dave O'Connor Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603441 The bullets are metal, the barrel is metal and, if you actually read the test as opposed to Representative Moron's attempt to use this as a springboard to promote himself by sponsoring worthless authoritarian legislation, MANY of the other parts are still metal.  The only plastic part in the recent test was the lower receiver...everything else was completely normal and the weapon was fully detectable by all traditional methods. Not to mention that the test showed severe reliability problems.... ....not to mention the overwhelming evidence that gun control legislation does nothing to prevent violence... You can also legally construct your own metal weapons as well for less than a grand...not to give this idiot any more ideas. The bullets are metal, the barrel is metal and, if you actually read the test as opposed to Representative Moron’s attempt to use this as a springboard to promote himself by sponsoring worthless authoritarian legislation, MANY of the other parts are still metal.  The only plastic part in the recent test was the lower receiver…everything else was completely normal and the weapon was fully detectable by all traditional methods.

Not to mention that the test showed severe reliability problems….

….not to mention the overwhelming evidence that gun control legislation does nothing to prevent violence…

You can also legally construct your own metal weapons as well for less than a grand…not to give this idiot any more ideas.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/09/congressman-calls-for-ban-on-3.html#comment-1603416 Nathan Hornby Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199298#comment-1603416 Fair point, I suppose I was mostly referring to handguns - as rifles are perfectly legal here with a license. Fair point, I suppose I was mostly referring to handguns – as rifles are perfectly legal here with a license.

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