Comments on: Hit cancel to retry; hit retry to cancel http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Fri, 24 May 2013 04:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Marian Rosenberg http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1605904 Marian Rosenberg Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1605904 When I first got my corporate bank card with China Construction Bank the lady took me over to the ATM to show me how to use it because, in the middle of the transaction, you get a window where pressing OK will make it impossible to continue or get money and may, if you are sufficiently persistent, get your card eaten.  (And getting this card replaced or returned not only requires my passport, it also requires my business license...) Despite the fact that directions clearly indicate that you should not press "cancel" you must do that.It's been over a year.It still hasn't changed. When I first got my corporate bank card with China Construction Bank the lady took me over to the ATM to show me how to use it because, in the middle of the transaction, you get a window where pressing OK will make it impossible to continue or get money and may, if you are sufficiently persistent, get your card eaten.  (And getting this card replaced or returned not only requires my passport, it also requires my business license…)

Despite the fact that directions clearly indicate that you should not press “cancel” you must do that.It’s been over a year.It still hasn’t changed.

]]> By: tubacat http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1605697 tubacat Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1605697  So true - I remember thinking as well that programs should be developed from the outside in - design the user interface first, then get the programmers to make it happen...  So true – I remember thinking as well that programs should be developed from the outside in – design the user interface first, then get the programmers to make it happen…

]]> By: ChickieD http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1605433 ChickieD Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1605433 This is an excellent explanation of why user interfaces should NOT be written by developers.  Writing a screen prompt that says "cancel" because it cancels the operation that is running in the program makes SO MUCH SENSE to a developer ... and NONE to the person trying to figure out how to print a ticket. This is an excellent explanation of why user interfaces should NOT be written by developers. 

Writing a screen prompt that says “cancel” because it cancels the operation that is running in the program makes SO MUCH SENSE to a developer … and NONE to the person trying to figure out how to print a ticket.

]]> By: ChickieD http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1605006 ChickieD Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1605006 There's a concept within software development that, ideally, you write the manual and the user interface (buttons and screen design) first, then develop the backend functionality to that. I've heard this way of working talked about in almost mythical terms by user interface developers, tech writers, and technical support personnel.  However, in my 20 years of experience in engineering and software development, it has pretty much never worked that way - I did have one job where I was working with a user interface developer on a brand new piece of software and my job was to write a guide explaining how every single button, drop down list, and radio button would behave, which the programmers were supposed to follow as a guideline for their work; however, as this particular team of programmers had produced one of the strangest user interfaces I had ever seen, I did not have high hopes for them actually following the guidelines that I was writing.Because programmers are the "stars" and a lot of the managers of software projects are programmers themselves, they almost do not see the rest of the team of people involved in creating a product. Marketing, customer support, technical writers, sales people - none of these people are considered to have any knowledge about how a program should work. The programmers go on headlong with almost no planning and develop the functionality based on what interests them the most. The design is a complete afterthought, often cobbled on throughout development and then hurriedly fixed right as the product is about to be released. At my current job, they recently released a product to the field with most of the help functions completely missing, even though there is a huge button on every page for opening help. The programmers and testing team never even thought to look at or test what happened when a curious user pressed the giant help button on any given page. Many of the programmers do not speak English as a first language, yet it would never cross their minds that writing an incomprehensible error message could create a problem for the people who have to use the program. There’s a concept within software development that, ideally, you write the manual and the user interface (buttons and screen design) first, then develop the backend functionality to that. I’ve heard this way of working talked about in almost mythical terms by user interface developers, tech writers, and technical support personnel. 

However, in my 20 years of experience in engineering and software development, it has pretty much never worked that way – I did have one job where I was working with a user interface developer on a brand new piece of software and my job was to write a guide explaining how every single button, drop down list, and radio button would behave, which the programmers were supposed to follow as a guideline for their work; however, as this particular team of programmers had produced one of the strangest user interfaces I had ever seen, I did not have high hopes for them actually following the guidelines that I was writing.Because programmers are the “stars” and a lot of the managers of software projects are programmers themselves, they almost do not see the rest of the team of people involved in creating a product. Marketing, customer support, technical writers, sales people – none of these people are considered to have any knowledge about how a program should work. The programmers go on headlong with almost no planning and develop the functionality based on what interests them the most. The design is a complete afterthought, often cobbled on throughout development and then hurriedly fixed right as the product is about to be released. At my current job, they recently released a product to the field with most of the help functions completely missing, even though there is a huge button on every page for opening help. The programmers and testing team never even thought to look at or test what happened when a curious user pressed the giant help button on any given page. Many of the programmers do not speak English as a first language, yet it would never cross their minds that writing an incomprehensible error message could create a problem for the people who have to use the program.

]]> By: tubacat http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604952 tubacat Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604952  What makes me sad is that I don't see this getting better (and by that I mean I literally don't see it now, as well as I don't anticipate it). We humans have made a lot of progress by learning from our mistakes, but this kind of thing is ubiquitous but apparently so low-level that there is no way to achieve a critical mass such that the same UI mistakes aren't made over and over (like the various examples in these comments). After the Mac first came out there was actually a "bible" of sorts for Mac programmers for user interface --- it's long gone, but I think it had a lot to do with why Macs were so user friendly from the start...  What makes me sad is that I don’t see this getting better (and by that I mean I literally don’t see it now, as well as I don’t anticipate it). We humans have made a lot of progress by learning from our mistakes, but this kind of thing is ubiquitous but apparently so low-level that there is no way to achieve a critical mass such that the same UI mistakes aren’t made over and over (like the various examples in these comments).

After the Mac first came out there was actually a “bible” of sorts for Mac programmers for user interface — it’s long gone, but I think it had a lot to do with why Macs were so user friendly from the start…

]]> By: Adam StJohn Lawrence http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604771 Adam StJohn Lawrence Wed, 12 Dec 2012 01:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604771 Aw crap. Where do I give up my passport? Aw crap. Where do I give up my passport?

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604600 Nathan Hornby Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604600 You can't just go running away from your taxes, colonising distant lands and messing about with the language as you please. Heathens! You can’t just go running away from your taxes, colonising distant lands and messing about with the language as you please. Heathens!

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604571 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604571 <blockquote>us Brits are very particular about our language.</blockquote>As in competing to see who can do the worst job of mangling it?

us Brits are very particular about our language.

As in competing to see who can do the worst job of mangling it?

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604547 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604547 What about Evan Dando? He's a dreamboat. What about Evan Dando? He’s a dreamboat.

]]> By: B. Peasant http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604303 B. Peasant Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604303 Yeah, I mainly only select shutdown when there's a thunderstorm, and that wait is always great fun. Yeah, I mainly only select shutdown when there’s a thunderstorm, and that wait is always great fun.

]]> By: taras http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604286 taras Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604286 "Do you wish to cancel?" [ OK ]  [ Cancel ] “Do you wish to cancel?”
[ OK ]  [ Cancel ]

]]> By: Paul Renault http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604251 Paul Renault Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604251 Cory's from Toronto, eh. Edited to ask, since the whole thread is about pedantry and the English language: "lady wife"? As opposed to, um, "country wife"? "Uncouth wife"? "Ewe wife"? "Trap wife"? Cory’s from Toronto, eh.

Edited to ask, since the whole thread is about pedantry and the English language: “lady wife”?

As opposed to, um, “country wife”? “Uncouth wife”? “Ewe wife”? “Trap wife”?

]]> By: ChickieD http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604250 ChickieD Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604250 Software developers - keeping us technical writers in business with their inability to design interfaces that make any sense and utter hubris preventing them from asking someone else (maybe someone in the company who writes for a living? hint hint)  to write the screen prompts for them. Software developers – keeping us technical writers in business with their inability to design interfaces that make any sense and utter hubris preventing them from asking someone else (maybe someone in the company who writes for a living? hint hint)  to write the screen prompts for them.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604236 Nathan Hornby Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604236 :) Ah, not being fully versed in Cory's past I couldn't say - as I didn't realise that he may or may not have originally been from the UK. Either way his lady wife should be vetting these things - as you must know us Brits are very particular about our language. :)

Ah, not being fully versed in Cory’s past I couldn’t say – as I didn’t realise that he may or may not have originally been from the UK. Either way his lady wife should be vetting these things – as you must know us Brits are very particular about our language.

]]> By: mjmaxson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604210 mjmaxson Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604210 Nathan, That fact you mention--atm isn't in general use in the UK--is a lesson I had to learn the hard way.  It didn't take more than 2 blank stares for me to figure out no one knew what I was talking abou when I moved here. What I was really trying to point out was how odd I thought it was that Corey would mention the confusion being from the UK, I think, and living there again.  I've gotten to the point myself where my US friends ask me what I mean occasionally (bin, mobile, rubbish, etc...).  Furthermore, our 6 year-old daughter will have a heck of a time with rubber  ;^) Nathan,

That fact you mention–atm isn’t in general use in the UK–is a lesson I had to learn the hard way.  It didn’t take more than 2 blank stares for me to figure out no one knew what I was talking abou when I moved here.

What I was really trying to point out was how odd I thought it was that Corey would mention the confusion being from the UK, I think, and living there again.  I’ve gotten to the point myself where my US friends ask me what I mean occasionally (bin, mobile, rubbish, etc…).  Furthermore, our 6 year-old daughter will have a heck of a time with rubber  ;^)

]]> By: Dlo Burns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604199 Dlo Burns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604199 Child menu sounds wrong, like it sounds like something literal from a Garth Ennis story. Child menu sounds wrong, like it sounds like something literal from a Garth Ennis story.

]]> By: Dlo Burns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604193 Dlo Burns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604193 I used to work at a movie theater and I'm racking my brain trying to think of what the 'official' name of the machines were. The only thing remarkable about them was that kids could buy R rated tickets and management didn't care, and that anybody could buy a senior/military discount ticket and the meer ticket rippers didn't care. I used to work at a movie theater and I’m racking my brain trying to think of what the ‘official’ name of the machines were. The only thing remarkable about them was that kids could buy R rated tickets and management didn’t care, and that anybody could buy a senior/military discount ticket and the meer ticket rippers didn’t care.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604165 Nathan Hornby Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604165 Ah, gotcha! That was actually a typo that's since been corrected :) Thanks though, I do appreciate some good apostrophe trivia. (I loved the Dandy; Dando's murder, not so much). Ah, gotcha! That was actually a typo that’s since been corrected :) Thanks though, I do appreciate some good apostrophe trivia.

(I loved the Dandy; Dando’s murder, not so much).

]]> By: peregrinus http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604162 peregrinus Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604162 Oops my bad.  Dandy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-20581867 Dando was a reporter who was mysteriously murdered near where I live (it wasn't me).  I always confuse them, I don't know why, and it shames me. Dandy has your apostrophe because they know all about the dropped h; and why its' so important to distinguish it from the present existence marker. Oops my bad.  Dandy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-20581867

Dando was a reporter who was mysteriously murdered near where I live (it wasn’t me).  I always confuse them, I don’t know why, and it shames me.

Dandy has your apostrophe because they know all about the dropped h; and why its’ so important to distinguish it from the present existence marker.

]]> By: McGreens http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604154 McGreens Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604154 Mr. Hornby's right but the Americanisation of the British language is such that most people would assume "ATM" to mean a cash machine (however reluctantly). I, for one, would never assume it to mean a ticket machine, but the fact that the sticker's slapped on to one means it's not really a problem. Meanwhile "a member of staff" is perfectly normal and acceptable English. Mr. Hornby’s right but the Americanisation of the British language is such that most people would assume “ATM” to mean a cash machine (however reluctantly). I, for one, would never assume it to mean a ticket machine, but the fact that the sticker’s slapped on to one means it’s not really a problem.

Meanwhile “a member of staff” is perfectly normal and acceptable English.

]]> By: Dlo Burns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604145 Dlo Burns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604145 This has always bugged me since I was a kid: PRESS START TO PAUSE GAME. This has always bugged me since I was a kid: PRESS START TO PAUSE GAME.

]]> By: Dlo Burns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604144 Dlo Burns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604144 I've always thought of it as START THE SHUT DOWN SEQUENCE. And then you sit there for 20 min waiting for background programs to close and god forbid another hour for updates to install. I’ve always thought of it as START THE SHUT DOWN SEQUENCE. And then you sit there for 20 min waiting for background programs to close and god forbid another hour for updates to install.

]]> By: Dlo Burns http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604137 Dlo Burns Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604137 Shouldn't it be Automatic Marquee Machine? Shouldn’t it be Automatic Marquee Machine?

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604136 Nathan Hornby Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604136 Who's Dando and why do they have my apostrophe?? Who’s Dando and why do they have my apostrophe??

]]> By: ravenlunatick http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604135 ravenlunatick Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604135  Thank you!  Thank you!

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604133 Boundegar Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604133 No, absurdity.  :D No, absurdity.  :D

]]> By: Christopher http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604131 Christopher Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604131 I have yet to meet a programmer who will admit they made a mistake. The programmer's response, I suspect, will be the response I usually get: "The problem is not the design. The problem is the user." I have yet to meet a programmer who will admit they made a mistake. The programmer’s response, I suspect, will be the response I usually get: “The problem is not the design. The problem is the user.”

]]> By: peregrinus http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604132 peregrinus Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604132 You're definitely missing an apostrophe there.  Even Dando would have had it. You’re definitely missing an apostrophe there.  Even Dando would have had it.

]]> By: kobrakai http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604130 kobrakai Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604130  I was thinking more along the lines of Xerox. I have a machine that displays this message: Press "OK" to cancel. Press "Cancel" to continue.  I was thinking more along the lines of Xerox. I have a machine that displays this message: Press “OK” to cancel. Press “Cancel” to continue.

]]> By: Paul Renault http://boingboing.net/2012/12/10/hit-cancel-to-retry-hit-retry.html#comment-1604126 Paul Renault Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=199370#comment-1604126 ATM works here in Eastern Canada, but people often say 'bank machine'. While I can here to say "There is a problem with the use of apostrophes..", I want to add: <i>...a member of staff..</i>?  Are articles more expensive in London this time of year?  Or is 'staff member' not in general use in the UK?  Or maybe just Burnistoun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQVU-WAR-s&t=8m24s ATM works here in Eastern Canada, but people often say ‘bank machine’.

While I can here to say “There is a problem with the use of apostrophes..”, I want to add: …a member of staff..? 
Are articles more expensive in London this time of year? 
Or is ‘staff member’ not in general use in the UK?  Or maybe just Burnistoun?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQVU-WAR-s&t=8m24s

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