Comments on: Laurie Penny on the misogynist harassment she suffers as a woman journalist

By: C W

C W — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:22:00 +0000

“Men are harassed on the web by anonymous assholes. Harassers use whatever they feel is a weakness to harass.”

Exactly. Being a man is not the same “weakness” that people exploit. You’re so very close to understanding, if only.

By: C W

C W — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:16:00 +0000

He could also realize that his opinion isn’t respected implicitly, but on its own merits.

By: wysinwyg

wysinwyg — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:39:00 +0000

What would qualify as evidence to you?

http://skepchick.org/page-o-hate/

Let me guess, doesn’t count because they’re feminists and therefore “asking for it.”

By: wysinwyg

wysinwyg — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:38:00 +0000

That guy’s situation is not comparable to the torrent of rape threats and obscenity that are aimed at any woman on the internet with an opinion. Do you have any facts, by the way? I see you accusing others of “not having facts” but offering precious few facts of your own.

By: wysinwyg

wysinwyg — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:30:00 +0000

The lesson you should have learned: when something seems like kind of a big deal (e.g. rape threats) try not to say something that might be interpreted as meaning “it’s not really that big a deal.”

This does seem to be rooted in a misunderstanding, but you made it worse by getting your hackles up instead of taking a step back and trying to figure out how your statements were being misinterpreted.

By: chgoliz

chgoliz — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:10:00 +0000

responding to this from Niczar:

“Harassers use whatever they feel is a weakness to harass.”

So, what I hear you saying is that you recognize harassers think the fact of being female is a weakness and therefore an excellent basis for harassment.

Do *you* think being female is a weakness?

By: chgoliz

chgoliz — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:07:00 +0000

You mean, over and above the actual article this entire thread is about?

By: Niczar

Niczar — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:13:00 +0000

That’s not what I’m saying. Men are harassed on the web by anonymous assholes. Harassers use whatever they feel is a weakness to harass.

By: Niczar

Niczar — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:11:00 +0000

Nothing — apart from unsubstantiated gut feelings — is presented here that would in any way show that it’s a particular problem for women. I doubt it is, but I’m ready to admit otherwise if shown evidence. Are you?

By: miasm

miasm — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 17:26:00 +0000

Having experienced this (as a male) I can offer up, in analysis, that it happens specifically when the offender sees themselves as above you in the pecking order.
Some part of their mind is paying attention to you (obviously) but their ego-driven, conscious, stream of thought seems to be more concerned with maintaining the appearance of their societally derived pecking-position. So much so that they edit out the occurance from short term memory. (“Huh, did she say something… anyway I’ve just had this marvellous thought.”)
That the surrounding members of the peer-group, seeing this from the outside, collude with what I can only imagine is a more lucid awareness of what’s actually happening is what really confuses me.
Perhaps they feel that they are buying tokens they might redeem with the lads the next time they instantiate the behaviour.
And so, the cycle continues. Semi-aware, post factual, crowd-sourced, memory deletion.

By: DisGuest

DisGuest — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:26:00 +0000

Sorry I wasn’t getting it.

By: cdh1971

cdh1971 — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:29:00 +0000

I knew, like ten of them, five were childhood friends I met the five before their rebellious teen kick, like 27 or more years ago.

I know about the cretins, I was just feeling a bit of nostalgia for a few individuals I knew…of course you’re pretty much right, I should of said the friends I knew where cool…nostalgia and other stuff you know.

By: cdh1971

cdh1971 — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:12:00 +0000

I agree — with all of your points — you’ve nailed what I was thinking, in less words.

By: cdh1971

cdh1971 — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:09:00 +0000

I think I understand what you mean, Ser GawainLavers,

A feedback loop, a kind of viscous circle in which his perceived idea of how others see him… real-imagined-and-somewhere-in-between…causes him to become even more reclusive, and even more disassociative, withdrawn, and etcetera, then rinse and repeat….rinse and repeat…

Hello World, with a keyboard as a sword, or even worse, something more concrete and damaging…more than mere trolling or destructive social-engineering…like available projectile weapons and cultural thought patterns and clichés that make their use easier in the shooter’s mind.

What I mean is, I really wonder if this is the sort of scenario that has caused the tragedies this week, and in similar episodes earlier this year and in the last thirty.

By: C W

C W — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:51:00 +0000

I’m confused as to what the reply was to, because I was agreeing that certain comments should be nuked, I was stating that plenty of websites like the hits that comments sections give them, but hate taking responsibility (paid mods or volunteer) for the content certain barely-human users bring with them.

By: C W

C W — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:48:00 +0000

“Why do you require examples from me while providing none?”

Because it was your outrageous claim, that men are often mocked especially for being male. She asked for any evidence you have for your statement, obviously you have no data, no anecdotes, and no rational explanation for your insecurities or feelings of inadequacy.

By: C W

C W — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:45:00 +0000

“Men don’t get trolled on the web?”

You’re conveniently removing the context. They don’t get especially belittled BECAUSE they are men. Your victim complex has no basis.

By: C W

C W — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:39:00 +0000

“I am not welcome in dialogues”

I am sure this is the case regardless of context.

By: DisGuest

DisGuest — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 05:10:00 +0000

In retrospect, this was dumb, removed.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 05:03:00 +0000

…I am not welcome in dialogues concerning the difficulties faced by female professionals. That much, at least, is clear. Is anything I’ve missed?

I want to feel sorry for you, but you feel so sorry for yourself, there’s no room in there for me.

By: C W

C W — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 01:38:00 +0000

It’s almost funny how so many of them hate Muslims and are atheists, but treat women how fundamentalists do.

http://www.blaghag.com/2011/07/richard-dawkins-your-privilege-is.html

Dawkins is no outlier. He reflects plenty of persons who are smart enough to know better, but are terrible still.

By: C W

C W — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 01:36:00 +0000

“Then those comments should be deleted into oblivion.”

Those sites who allow comments but refuse to police them are pretty big enablers.

By: chaopoiesis

chaopoiesis — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 01:12:00 +0000

I’m halfway through it – thanks for the link!

By: torgo23

torgo23 — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:53:00 +0000

Well, I’m really surprised that this post started so much trouble. I won’t be adding any more to it, because I don’t see how that would be helpful. In the future, I will consider re-evaluating my position. Maybe you’re right, maybe opinions are more or less valid depending on the identity (specifically gender) of the writer. I am not yet convinced of that, but I will look into the literature to that effect.
I would also very much like to read what you think the lesson that I take from this should be. So far, what I can gather is that my opinion (that the identity of the writer should not bear on the evaluation of that writer’s ideas) is invalid (maybe not incorrect, but certainly invalid), and that I am not welcome in dialogues concerning the difficulties faced by female professionals. That much, at least, is clear. Is anything I’ve missed?

By: orangedesperado

orangedesperado — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:48:00 +0000

I would like the art to include the trolls being forced to read their statements out loud, while being filmed, in front of their mothers.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:08:00 +0000

I figure that it’s more like: One public appearance with him per week, bang him four times per year, and after five years, you get ten million.

By: orangedesperado

orangedesperado — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 23:49:00 +0000

I think he probably has arrangements made for a pre-nuptial lobotomy for any prospective mates, as well as a sort of microchip-like implant that delivers horrible shocks that he controls for behavior modification purposes. Plus also several consultations arranged with his favorite cosmetic surgeons, where he does all the talking about what could improve his future mate’s appearance. Then, if this wasn’t enough, he marries women, cheats on them and publicly humiliates them ! What a catch !

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 23:42:00 +0000

Do you think that he has a little date kit that includes a sample pre-nup?

By: orangedesperado

orangedesperado — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 23:35:00 +0000

It’s a field, way out in the middle of nowhere, probably on government owned land – perhaps a field where people are not supposed to be due to high levels of radioactivity that cause neurological impairment.

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:55:00 +0000

my original post was only meant to express surprise at the fact that readers are even interested in the identity of the author in the first place. If they were not, then this sort of thing wouldn’t happen.

Then the assholes would just assume that everyone was male and take that as license to spew more misogyny. You seem to live in the delusion that we live in a post-gender society. We don’t, and only male privilege could permit you to think that.