Comments on: Should there be a standard user interface for cars? http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Thu, 23 May 2013 20:52:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: JohnHinesJr http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614534 JohnHinesJr Sun, 23 Dec 2012 02:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614534 I didn't say it would be safer in heavy traffic.  I said I already know how to use the interface to control music, navigation, etc.  Why duplicate those things in the car's electronics?   I prefer manual controls for heating, cooling, volume, etc.  I didn’t say it would be safer in heavy traffic.  I said I already know how to use the interface to control music, navigation, etc.  Why duplicate those things in the car’s electronics?  

I prefer manual controls for heating, cooling, volume, etc. 

]]> By: Michael Smith http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614430 Michael Smith Sat, 22 Dec 2012 20:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614430 Yeah its a subset of the general problem that the more bugs you insert during development, the more you make on support. Yeah its a subset of the general problem that the more bugs you insert during development, the more you make on support.

]]> By: Stig Carlsson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614293 Stig Carlsson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 16:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614293  Yes, The Devil approves. Let's make it more dangerous for inexperienced drivers to kill themselves and others in traffic. Also remove all the sissy stuff like seatbelts and airbags from all cars and let the unlucky Darwinize themselves out of the gene pool. Funerals are fun, let's have more of them... ;-)  Yes, The Devil approves. Let’s make it more dangerous for inexperienced drivers to kill themselves and others in traffic. Also remove all the sissy stuff like seatbelts and airbags from all cars and let the unlucky Darwinize themselves out of the gene pool. Funerals are fun, let’s have more of them… ;-)

]]> By: Stig Carlsson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614288 Stig Carlsson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 16:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614288  Cars ain't computers. Standards are compulsory when it comes to cars and other vehicles and anybody who think they could get their vehicle certified if they fuck with a set standard would have to pay a heavy fine and take the costs for a retrofit. Very expensive, i could tell you, having worked at a car factory for several years and having to change bad stuff before shipping when the rest of my friends were enjoying their vacations...  Cars ain’t computers. Standards are compulsory when it comes to cars and other vehicles and anybody who think they could get their vehicle certified if they fuck with a set standard would have to pay a heavy fine and take the costs for a retrofit. Very expensive, i could tell you, having worked at a car factory for several years and having to change bad stuff before shipping when the rest of my friends were enjoying their vacations…

]]> By: Stig Carlsson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614280 Stig Carlsson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 15:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614280  Thats because they get a bigger hard-on the more complicated and fucked-up the UI gets. And, of course, they would probably be shunned by their peers who get to be paid to teach users of the new sustems... ;-)  Thats because they get a bigger hard-on the more complicated and fucked-up the UI gets. And, of course, they would probably be shunned by their peers who get to be paid to teach users of the new sustems… ;-)

]]> By: Stig Carlsson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614272 Stig Carlsson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 15:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614272  And F**K all who thinks that voice-actuated stuff would be a good idea, too, in a non-electric car with a sound system in it!..  And F**K all who thinks that voice-actuated stuff would be a good idea, too, in a non-electric car with a sound system in it!..

]]> By: Stig Carlsson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614271 Stig Carlsson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 15:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614271  And this would actually Help you to drive safe in heavy traffic? Bwahahahaha! I want to watch you do that; at a safe distance, in the dark! I hope that you have a good insurance package, because you damn sure are gonna need it... :-]  And this would actually Help you to drive safe in heavy traffic? Bwahahahaha! I want to watch you do that; at a safe distance, in the dark! I hope that you have a good insurance package, because you damn sure are gonna need it… :-]

]]> By: Stig Carlsson http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614265 Stig Carlsson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 15:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614265 We have a lot to win on the other hand if the important stuff gets standarized. This could be set to a point far enough in the future to allow the industry to adopt it and still use the latitude in the specs to make the design look different between the different brands. Too many times i have had to get into a car model that i never had driven before and having to ask the now fairly drunk carowner where the fuck the knobs, buttons etc. was and how to find the defroster and fan settings so that i could see the road.  It's a wonder that i have managed to stay on the road at times when trying to do this in heavy rain or snowfall after the carowner had rang up at 2.30 AM and told me to "get started, the keys are in the car" and come and get a bunch of people at a party miles away when he or she should have made other arrangements for getting home. I can't se how this would make the cars more expensive if the manufacturers don't try to make us believe that we should pay more when it actually should cost less to have more standarized designs in production. I know how this works, as i have worked at a car factory and have several friends in the design, testing etc. departments there. Lots of bull sessions have been had when this have been discussed and people have had a chance to weather their pet peeves in the different approaches of dashboard design in modern cars. I still hate Citroen and a couple of others that tends to change the layouts so often that i have to read through the manual to actually find out where the knob for this or that is in This car. SAAB, R.I.P. was quite good over the years at placing everything where you could find it at the first try, even at night... :-) We have a lot to win on the other hand if the important stuff gets standarized. This could be set to a point far enough in the future to allow the industry to adopt it and still use the latitude in the specs to make the design look different between the different brands. Too many times i have had to get into a car model that i never had driven before and having to ask the now fairly drunk carowner where the fuck the knobs, buttons etc. was and how to find the defroster and fan settings so that i could see the road.  It’s a wonder that i have managed to stay on the road at times when trying to do this in heavy rain or snowfall after the carowner had rang up at 2.30 AM and told me to “get started, the keys are in the car” and come and get a bunch of people at a party miles away when he or she should have made other arrangements for getting home. I can’t se how this would make the cars more expensive if the manufacturers don’t try to make us believe that we should pay more when it actually should cost less to have more standarized designs in production. I know how this works, as i have worked at a car factory and have several friends in the design, testing etc. departments there. Lots of bull sessions have been had when this have been discussed and people have had a chance to weather their pet peeves in the different approaches of dashboard design in modern cars. I still hate Citroen and a couple of others that tends to change the layouts so often that i have to read through the manual to actually find out where the knob for this or that is in This car. SAAB, R.I.P. was quite good over the years at placing everything where you could find it at the first try, even at night… :-)

]]> By: AwesomeRobot http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614133 AwesomeRobot Sat, 22 Dec 2012 05:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614133 It's not a matter of learning symbols it's a matter of forming habits. If every car I get into has a similar control placement, I intuitively know where everything is without learning new behaviors or going through adjustment phases. I know to close this window I hit the red X in the upper right hand corner — if every time the browser opened that red X was in a different location I wouldn't be learning from having to search for it. I'd be wasting time because I'd be consciously thinking about something that should just become second nature. My right foot is the gas pedal, and always will be in every car — it becomes so familiar that it just becomes instinct; an extension of your own body. It’s not a matter of learning symbols it’s a matter of forming habits. If every car I get into has a similar control placement, I intuitively know where everything is without learning new behaviors or going through adjustment phases.

I know to close this window I hit the red X in the upper right hand corner — if every time the browser opened that red X was in a different location I wouldn’t be learning from having to search for it. I’d be wasting time because I’d be consciously thinking about something that should just become second nature.

My right foot is the gas pedal, and always will be in every car — it becomes so familiar that it just becomes instinct; an extension of your own body.

]]> By: mindkracked http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614084 mindkracked Sat, 22 Dec 2012 03:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614084 Just be glad that there is a standard shift pattern for manual transmissions now. it was not always so, and they were different enough that most companies would only allow a driver to operate one make of vehicle. That is a major hazard. So is forgetting you are not driving a manual and slamming the brake pedal when you think its time to shift. I'm more concerned about the fact that when I worked at a quick-lube shop, people often had to look for the controls, often hitting the wipers instead of the signal lights, or worse. "I have fog lights?" was a far too common question. some cars had UIs that did not allow easy access to one or another control, like the honda odyssey which had the control stalks so close together that going for the shift leaver meant bumping the lights. I met lots of folks who didn't know the difference between euro/asia dimmers and US. Also every time the industry has gone to a "standard" they've used it as an excuse to screw over the consumer, so I'm not for it just on that alone. As for the person who wants standardized car parts, its the gripe of every home mechanic the world over. But I like efficiency, I like cars that don't require a hectare of hood to cover 2L of engine. Yes it sucks, but of all the vehicles I've worked on, the easiest were the ones using parts built for that car, not off the shelf bits and bobs. Late model eagle talon AWD. WORST CAR EVER, although every part on it is from another car. I don't envy the guys who have to shoe-horn all the bits into the body style given to them, and figure out how to produce the thing. Sure working on them gets tough, but if you want an easy car to work on, just go find yourself a 1985 chevy half-ton. Life is full of compromises. Just be glad that there is a standard shift pattern for manual transmissions now. it was not always so, and they were different enough that most companies would only allow a driver to operate one make of vehicle. That is a major hazard. So is forgetting you are not driving a manual and slamming the brake pedal when you think its time to shift.
I’m more concerned about the fact that when I worked at a quick-lube shop, people often had to look for the controls, often hitting the wipers instead of the signal lights, or worse. “I have fog lights?” was a far too common question. some cars had UIs that did not allow easy access to one or another control, like the honda odyssey which had the control stalks so close together that going for the shift leaver meant bumping the lights. I met lots of folks who didn’t know the difference between euro/asia dimmers and US. Also every time the industry has gone to a “standard” they’ve used it as an excuse to screw over the consumer, so I’m not for it just on that alone. As for the person who wants standardized car parts, its the gripe of every home mechanic the world over. But I like efficiency, I like cars that don’t require a hectare of hood to cover 2L of engine. Yes it sucks, but of all the vehicles I’ve worked on, the easiest were the ones using parts built for that car, not off the shelf bits and bobs. Late model eagle talon AWD. WORST CAR EVER, although every part on it is from another car. I don’t envy the guys who have to shoe-horn all the bits into the body style given to them, and figure out how to produce the thing. Sure working on them gets tough, but if you want an easy car to work on, just go find yourself a 1985 chevy half-ton. Life is full of compromises.

]]> By: Michael Crumpton http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1614074 Michael Crumpton Sat, 22 Dec 2012 02:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1614074 I have to agree with the writer of the article. Unless you are actually going to substantially improve the functionality of a control by moving it to a new place, there should be standards. The only reason there aren't is that most folks only have to drive one or two cars a year. My job requires me to deal with operating dozens of different cell phones, and it is a nightmare to figure out where they hid the most basic controls in different skins of Android and other OSes. I have to agree with the writer of the article. Unless you are actually going to substantially improve the functionality of a control by moving it to a new place, there should be standards. The only reason there aren’t is that most folks only have to drive one or two cars a year. My job requires me to deal with operating dozens of different cell phones, and it is a nightmare to figure out where they hid the most basic controls in different skins of Android and other OSes.

]]> By: Michael Smith http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613759 Michael Smith Fri, 21 Dec 2012 20:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613759 No I wasn't okay with it. I think part of the problem is that she hardly drives at night, and never in the country, and wasn't aware of the difference between high and low beam. No I wasn’t okay with it. I think part of the problem is that she hardly drives at night, and never in the country, and wasn’t aware of the difference between high and low beam.

]]> By: Larry Rubinow http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613613 Larry Rubinow Fri, 21 Dec 2012 18:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613613 If you've never had to drive a Peugeot 504, you should be disqualified from answering this question.  Want to honk the horn?  Don't hit the big pad in the middle of the steering wheel, because that doesn't do anything but hide the steering-wheel nut; instead, tug on the turn signal stalk.  Which, by the way, is on the opposite side of the steering wheel from every other turn-signal stalk you've ever used; that thing that you *thought* was the turn-signal stalk controls your lights and wipers. I shudder to think how many accidents those cars would have caused had anybody in the US actually bought them. If you’ve never had to drive a Peugeot 504, you should be disqualified from answering this question.  Want to honk the horn?  Don’t hit the big pad in the middle of the steering wheel, because that doesn’t do anything but hide the steering-wheel nut; instead, tug on the turn signal stalk.  Which, by the way, is on the opposite side of the steering wheel from every other turn-signal stalk you’ve ever used; that thing that you *thought* was the turn-signal stalk controls your lights and wipers.

I shudder to think how many accidents those cars would have caused had anybody in the US actually bought them.

]]> By: jackbird http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613259 jackbird Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613259 Your wife couldn't understand why driving with high beams on all the time is unsafe?  And you were mostly OK with this? Your wife couldn’t understand why driving with high beams on all the time is unsafe?  And you were mostly OK with this?

]]> By: oasisob1 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613230 oasisob1 Fri, 21 Dec 2012 14:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613230 I would hazard a guess that more accidents are the result of cellphone use than hunting for the blinkers. I would hazard a guess that more accidents are the result of cellphone use than hunting for the blinkers.

]]> By: oasisob1 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613228 oasisob1 Fri, 21 Dec 2012 14:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613228 Honda Fit is similarly laid out, with hazard light switch apparently part of the radio group. FM/AM/CD/Hazards... Honda Fit is similarly laid out, with hazard light switch apparently part of the radio group. FM/AM/CD/Hazards…

]]> By: for_SCIENCE http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613199 for_SCIENCE Fri, 21 Dec 2012 13:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613199 Well, yes on the the defroster because it can help keep the windows from refrosting/fogging up, which can happen even after I've scraped the windows clear once. Well, yes on the the defroster because it can help keep the windows from refrosting/fogging up, which can happen even after I’ve scraped the windows clear once.

]]> By: Guest http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613176 Guest Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613176 The dash in the picture is definitely a Citroen, probably an early CX model from the late 1970ies before a redesign gave it a far more conventional dashboard. Citroen were proud then of being a really innovative company, and tried to do things differently, like with the "satellites" left and right of the steering wheel where they tried to arrange buttons in an intuitive manner, but of course baffled many new drivers, so the satellites were a short lived thing. So were the analog bar displays. Brakes on a Citroen worked different, too, the pedal had almost no way of travel but braking was proportional to pressure. Also they had this hydropneumatic suspension going back to the great DS of the 1950ies. The BX of the 1980ies was to my knowledge the last middle class car with a suspension like that, today you find it only in large luxury cars. Etcetera. They dared to do things differently, and often failed, but they sure were innovative. Oh and to the guy who created the photo caption: if you drive a car like that without familiarizing with where the controls are, don't blame the designer when your negligence causes an accident. Also, I can see the bloody horn button in the picture, it's on the upper left, labled with a horn, duh! The dash in the picture is definitely a Citroen, probably an early CX model from the late 1970ies before a redesign gave it a far more conventional dashboard. Citroen were proud then of being a really innovative company, and tried to do things differently, like with the “satellites” left and right of the steering wheel where they tried to arrange buttons in an intuitive manner, but of course baffled many new drivers, so the satellites were a short lived thing. So were the analog bar displays. Brakes on a Citroen worked different, too, the pedal had almost no way of travel but braking was proportional to pressure. Also they had this hydropneumatic suspension going back to the great DS of the 1950ies. The BX of the 1980ies was to my knowledge the last middle class car with a suspension like that, today you find it only in large luxury cars. Etcetera. They dared to do things differently, and often failed, but they sure were innovative.

Oh and to the guy who created the photo caption: if you drive a car like that without familiarizing with where the controls are, don’t blame the designer when your negligence causes an accident. Also, I can see the bloody horn button in the picture, it’s on the upper left, labled with a horn, duh!

]]> By: Jaan http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613175 Jaan Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613175 The one major gripe I have about controls is in my Toyota...pushing the turn signal stalk forward makes the high beams go on.  I'm good enough that I can activate my turn signals with either hand however on the Toyota if I try to use the turn signal with my right hand, I accidentally blind other drivers in the intersection.  Also, it being a really small car to me and my hands are large just turning the wheel occasionally makes me turn the high beams on.  At the end of the day, it makes me REALLY hate using the turn signals and I end up making the roads more dangerous by accident. I own 4 cars, two with column shifters, two with floor shifters.  No matter what, I still constantly reach for one, or the other.  Shifting is so habitual it's hard to break the pattern. The one major gripe I have about controls is in my Toyota…pushing the turn signal stalk forward makes the high beams go on.  I’m good enough that I can activate my turn signals with either hand however on the Toyota if I try to use the turn signal with my right hand, I accidentally blind other drivers in the intersection.  Also, it being a really small car to me and my hands are large just turning the wheel occasionally makes me turn the high beams on.  At the end of the day, it makes me REALLY hate using the turn signals and I end up making the roads more dangerous by accident.

I own 4 cars, two with column shifters, two with floor shifters.  No matter what, I still constantly reach for one, or the other.  Shifting is so habitual it’s hard to break the pattern.

]]> By: phuzz http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613172 phuzz Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613172 I found the horn, it's on the lefthand side, with the icon that looks like a trumpet, what do I win? I found the horn, it’s on the lefthand side, with the icon that looks like a trumpet, what do I win?

]]> By: roseviolet http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613128 roseviolet Fri, 21 Dec 2012 06:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613128 This has been my major beef about car-sharing.  You get in, you check around and *think* you know what you're doing.  Then it almost never fails that something like the rear defroster/defogger is needed or the controls for the headlights (both to turn them fully on and bright/dim) or windshield wiper speed, etc.   I could see *needing* the manual if I was trying to decode something bizarre like what does this particular error code mean?  Is it serious or is it one of those that's just telling someone it's time to start thinking the whatever mile tune-up/oil change?  But the manual shouldn't be *needed* for basic controls.  Those are things we should be able to find upon getting into the car or, if necessary, while driving.  If you *need* the manual to find basic controls, it's a sign that the dash board is disorganized and/or too complex. This has been my major beef about car-sharing.  You get in, you check around and *think* you know what you’re doing.  Then it almost never fails that something like the rear defroster/defogger is needed or the controls for the headlights (both to turn them fully on and bright/dim) or windshield wiper speed, etc.  

I could see *needing* the manual if I was trying to decode something bizarre like what does this particular error code mean?  Is it serious or is it one of those that’s just telling someone it’s time to start thinking the whatever mile tune-up/oil change?  But the manual shouldn’t be *needed* for basic controls.  Those are things we should be able to find upon getting into the car or, if necessary, while driving.  If you *need* the manual to find basic controls, it’s a sign that the dash board is disorganized and/or too complex.

]]> By: Al_Packer http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613127 Al_Packer Fri, 21 Dec 2012 06:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613127  I have a 1987 Mazda pickup, a 1988 VW Fox, and a 2012 Chevy Cruze.  I knew exactly what each control on the first two did within 5 minutes of acquiring the vehicle.  After 5 months I'm still trying to figure out many of the controls on the Chevy.  (And yes, I did read the driver's manual.)  I understand that Ford's Sync system is even worse.  Complexity is the enemy of efficiency.  I have a 1987 Mazda pickup, a 1988 VW Fox, and a 2012 Chevy Cruze.  I knew exactly what each control on the first two did within 5 minutes of acquiring the vehicle.  After 5 months I’m still trying to figure out many of the controls on the Chevy.  (And yes, I did read the driver’s manual.)  I understand that Ford’s Sync system is even worse.  Complexity is the enemy of efficiency.

]]> By: bcsizemo http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613120 bcsizemo Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613120 Quite frankly having a standard vehicle UI is one of the smallest issues I have with car makers.  Why not go a few steps further and have standardized engine mounts and bellhouse/transmission patterns?  Is there really any reason that an engine from something like a 2000 Chevy Cavalier shouldn't work in a 2004 Chevy Cobalt?  Or the fact there are a bajillion shock and strut combinations, and you might as well throw every other accessory component in here as well. If I wanted to make cars safer I'd install a cell phone jammer, the UI is the least of people's worries. Quite frankly having a standard vehicle UI is one of the smallest issues I have with car makers.  Why not go a few steps further and have standardized engine mounts and bellhouse/transmission patterns?  Is there really any reason that an engine from something like a 2000 Chevy Cavalier shouldn’t work in a 2004 Chevy Cobalt?  Or the fact there are a bajillion shock and strut combinations, and you might as well throw every other accessory component in here as well.

If I wanted to make cars safer I’d install a cell phone jammer, the UI is the least of people’s worries.

]]> By: bcsizemo http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613117 bcsizemo Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613117 Honestly the only thing I took away from those stories was the fact that the people probably knew how to work their cell phones better than a 3000+lbs vehicle that could kill someone. Honestly the only thing I took away from those stories was the fact that the people probably knew how to work their cell phones better than a 3000+lbs vehicle that could kill someone.

]]> By: bcsizemo http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613116 bcsizemo Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613116 It's like that in a lot of cars now... I borrowed a friends truck and his was on the steering column. It’s like that in a lot of cars now…
I borrowed a friends truck and his was on the steering column.

]]> By: bcsizemo http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613115 bcsizemo Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:44:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613115 Wipers yes, defroster no. If you can't see out you can take 30 seconds to clear the windows before you roll out. Besides turn signals have been around for 50+ years and very few people even seem to know what they are. Wipers yes, defroster no.

If you can’t see out you can take 30 seconds to clear the windows before you roll out.

Besides turn signals have been around for 50+ years and very few people even seem to know what they are.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613090 Antinous / Moderator Fri, 21 Dec 2012 04:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613090 I couldn't figure out where my hazard lights were a couple of weeks ago. Instead of being near the other light controls, it's a button in between the center heating/AC vents. That's just crackheaded. I couldn’t figure out where my hazard lights were a couple of weeks ago. Instead of being near the other light controls, it’s a button in between the center heating/AC vents. That’s just crackheaded.

]]> By: Cary Roys http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613087 Cary Roys Fri, 21 Dec 2012 04:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613087 So first off, I travel for work.  I practically drive a brand new car every few weeks.  I have driven a LOT of cars, but by no means all.  Mostly lower end cars (I have a relatively high budget, but see keeping my spending low as both good for my customers, and a geeky challenge). My personal car is/was (just had it totaled by a teen driver) a newish VW golf.That said, I agree with a few points:Analog knobs are great.  Intuitive, don't have to look at them.  You should absolutely figure out a few of the controls of your new vehicle before taking off.  To a certain extent, adapting on the fly to a new car shouldn't be painful.  It should be clear from the buttons what features the car supports, and what it doesn't (it frequently isn't).  Standard stuff like the indicator on the gas gauge as to which side the fuel tank is on is AWESOME.Important driver information, as well as music/radio stuff should be displayed directly in front of you if there's a display for it (many cars, even lower end fords, do this).  Radio/music stuff is optional, depending on your music/driving style.Non critical stuff should be displayed in the center console.Steering wheel buttons for cruise control/music should be sensible and touch-only.  Same places on every car. Instrument/button wise, some of the best cars I've driven have been VW/Ford/Hyundai.  Predictable, sensible, great features even on the low end. Seriously, worst instrument layout I've dealt with so far has been with the Prius.   Really Toyota, WTF.  That big ass bright screen in the middle with no competing light from other instrument clusters will screw with your night vision.  As well, more information needs to be directly in front of you.  I get it, it's a car that's good for the environment, but how about spending a bit less time congratulating yourself on a big gorgeous LCD, and displaying useful information to the drive directly in an ugly-but-functional cluster in front of their face.  The stereo controls need to be on the damn stereo (although granted, I've only rented the, what, 2010 models?). And to date, the overall best rental car I've driven, bizarrely, has been the Nissan Cube.  Which unfortunately, the first time I rented one, I had my customer call me up after driving away to specifically tell me I looked ridiculous driving it.  I actually was much more comfy driving that than a number of much nicer cars like Cadillac, Infiniti, Muscle cars, various convertibles, etc.  Ah well. So first off, I travel for work.  I practically drive a brand new car every few weeks.  I have driven a LOT of cars, but by no means all.  Mostly lower end cars (I have a relatively high budget, but see keeping my spending low as both good for my customers, and a geeky challenge).

My personal car is/was (just had it totaled by a teen driver) a newish VW golf.That said, I agree with a few points:Analog knobs are great.  Intuitive, don’t have to look at them.  You should absolutely figure out a few of the controls of your new vehicle before taking off.  To a certain extent, adapting on the fly to a new car shouldn’t be painful.  It should be clear from the buttons what features the car supports, and what it doesn’t (it frequently isn’t).  Standard stuff like the indicator on the gas gauge as to which side the fuel tank is on is AWESOME.Important driver information, as well as music/radio stuff should be displayed directly in front of you if there’s a display for it (many cars, even lower end fords, do this).  Radio/music stuff is optional, depending on your music/driving style.Non critical stuff should be displayed in the center console.Steering wheel buttons for cruise control/music should be sensible and touch-only.  Same places on every car.

Instrument/button wise, some of the best cars I’ve driven have been VW/Ford/Hyundai.  Predictable, sensible, great features even on the low end.

Seriously, worst instrument layout I’ve dealt with so far has been with the Prius.   Really Toyota, WTF.  That big ass bright screen in the middle with no competing light from other instrument clusters will screw with your night vision.  As well, more information needs to be directly in front of you.  I get it, it’s a car that’s good for the environment, but how about spending a bit less time congratulating yourself on a big gorgeous LCD, and displaying useful information to the drive directly in an ugly-but-functional cluster in front of their face.  The stereo controls need to be on the damn stereo (although granted, I’ve only rented the, what, 2010 models?).

And to date, the overall best rental car I’ve driven, bizarrely, has been the Nissan Cube.  Which unfortunately, the first time I rented one, I had my customer call me up after driving away to specifically tell me I looked ridiculous driving it.  I actually was much more comfy driving that than a number of much nicer cars like Cadillac, Infiniti, Muscle cars, various convertibles, etc.  Ah well.

]]> By: Mike Bryan http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613079 Mike Bryan Fri, 21 Dec 2012 03:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613079  So I'm not better at knowing what the icons for Rear Defog, Windshield Wipers, Hazard lights, High-Beams, etc look like from having to hunt for them in different cars over the years?  It doesn't make me better at problem solving to stop for a minute to figure out an unfamiliar but potentially deadly machine rather than just stab the go pedal and hope for the best?  They don't standardize the layouts of aircraft, boats, helicopters, etc and those are FAR more dangerous than ordinary cars.  They get away with it because the people who pilot them specialize in specific vehicles and get certifications for them.   So I’m not better at knowing what the icons for Rear Defog, Windshield Wipers, Hazard lights, High-Beams, etc look like from having to hunt for them in different cars over the years? 

It doesn’t make me better at problem solving to stop for a minute to figure out an unfamiliar but potentially deadly machine rather than just stab the go pedal and hope for the best? 

They don’t standardize the layouts of aircraft, boats, helicopters, etc and those are FAR more dangerous than ordinary cars.  They get away with it because the people who pilot them specialize in specific vehicles and get certifications for them. 

]]> By: Michael Smith http://boingboing.net/2012/12/20/should-there-be-a-standard-use.html#comment-1613071 Michael Smith Fri, 21 Dec 2012 03:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=201838#comment-1613071 The other week I was out for a walk and an elderly woman stopped her car in the street, and asked me for help. She said <i>how do you stop the blink blink</i> or something slightly less clear. So I was a bit confused but I took a look and yeah the hazard lights were on. I turned them off and showed the button to a younger woman in the passenger seat. She got the idea and they were okay. The thing is that the hazard light button is about the most standard UI element in a car. It is the easiest to find. Another time my wife told me of the time when a man stopped her at a traffic light and asked he to do something complicated with a stalk on her steering column. She didn't understand and he finished up saying <i>just pull the stalk that way and make sure the blue light is off in the instrument panel</i>. So she asked me about it later and I explained about high and low beams but she couldn't understand why she shouldn't just use high beam all the time because you can see further so I just told her not to leave the blue light on near the instruments and left it at that. The other week I was out for a walk and an elderly woman stopped her car in the street, and asked me for help. She said how do you stop the blink blink or something slightly less clear. So I was a bit confused but I took a look and yeah the hazard lights were on. I turned them off and showed the button to a younger woman in the passenger seat. She got the idea and they were okay.

The thing is that the hazard light button is about the most standard UI element in a car. It is the easiest to find.

Another time my wife told me of the time when a man stopped her at a traffic light and asked he to do something complicated with a stalk on her steering column. She didn’t understand and he finished up saying just pull the stalk that way and make sure the blue light is off in the instrument panel.

So she asked me about it later and I explained about high and low beams but she couldn’t understand why she shouldn’t just use high beam all the time because you can see further so I just told her not to leave the blue light on near the instruments and left it at that.

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