Comments on: Pirate radio station jams keyless entry system

By: Me

Me — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:19:00 +0000

Remote transmitters not working near two government buildings? The hell you say?

By: Me

Me — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:06:00 +0000

The key is released from inside the remote Fob by a little button.

By: Me

Me — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:05:00 +0000

Yeah, and the code is on the trunk lid, how secure is that?

By: Nash Rambler

Nash Rambler — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:03:00 +0000

“. . .intermitten problems are the hardest to diagnose.”

“Any man who would make such an execrable pun would not scruple to pick my pocket” Sir W. H. Pyne (1657-1734)

By: NI MEN HAO-DY TRAMPOLINA

NI MEN HAO-DY TRAMPOLINA — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 00:54:00 +0000

I was wondering the same thing… how very Gibson-esque…

By: Dean Mullins

Dean Mullins — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 04:22:00 +0000

Wild! I live 2 blocks from there. Every time I go near there my remote only works within 10 feet of my car, otherwise it works fine. Now I know why!

By: wrybread

wrybread — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 23:29:00 +0000

Usually pirate radio stations will have filters that remove harmonic frequencies such as this. Alas, these guys didn't, which makes them pretty irresponsible as pirate radio broadcasters go. More info here (search for "filter" on that page).

By: wrybread

wrybread — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 23:24:00 +0000

I think the point wasn't that a biometric system is particularly vulnerable, but that tempting people to slice off your fingers isn't a good idea. For example.

By: Harry Smith

Harry Smith — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:46:00 +0000

You don’t see stations on 107.4 in the US because stations are limited to odd decimals. There are plenty of 107.3′s and 107.5′s. Some radios with digital displays won’t even tune to an even decimal, you’d have to listen on .3 or .5.

That said I’d like someone to answer your main question.

By: wjcarpenter

wjcarpenter — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 20:53:00 +0000

Maybe some technically inclined reader can comment. The pirate station was on 107.4 mHz. What’s the path that leads to interference with the keyless systems? Do they operate in the sort-of-unregulated 433 mHz area, and some harmonic (107.4 x 4) is clobbering them?

I did my Google diligence of 30 seconds and found lots of other 107.4 stations, but none in the US. Is that an unused frequency for this very reason?

By: unclegabby

unclegabby — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:17:00 +0000

If you’re getting fingers cut off a stolen car is the least of your problems.

By: unclegabby

unclegabby — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:16:00 +0000

Volkswagon and other German cars are of this style.

By: oasisob1

oasisob1 — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 15:17:00 +0000

This issue with biometric entry is that if your key is somehow compromised, it’s not very easy to get a new one. It could also make loaning your car to a friend very… painful.

By: oasisob1

oasisob1 — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 15:14:00 +0000

It’s not really keyless then, is it? You’re so uncool.

By: Tynam

Tynam — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:41:00 +0000

I can’t like this enough. A security system which has strand you in a random location as a failure mode has spectacularly missed the point, however well it works when functioning as intended.

There needs to be an option B. (And it needs to be harder for a thief than option A, of course.)

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 06:07:00 +0000

I guess that I must have an older one, then.

By: bcsizemo

bcsizemo — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 05:47:00 +0000

Newer Subaru also are built that way.

By: ldobe

ldobe — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 03:20:00 +0000

Vein readers work just as well as fingerprint readers in relation to uniqueness, and can be made to require that the finger/hand to be intact with blood movement.

That might solve a few problems. If you cut off the finger it won’t work, although if your vein map is skimmed it’s feasible to make a model digit/hand with simulated/substituted blood. Or they might hook up the severed hand to a fliud pump I suppose.

By: Takashi Omoto

Takashi Omoto — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 03:04:00 +0000

A FM pirate radio station broadcasting Caribbean music glitching high society devices, in 2012….
So, is this a viral for a Neuromancer film?

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 02:04:00 +0000

I vaguely recall someone with one of those complaining that they were constantly locking and unlocking their car by accident.

By: Jacob Ewing

Jacob Ewing — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:48:00 +0000

I think that’s the part of the post I enjoyed reading most.

By: fuzzyfuzzyfungus

fuzzyfuzzyfungus — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:25:00 +0000

“Seems to me the best security would be biometric.”

I’ve got a pair of hedge trimmers(or a grapefruit spoon, if iris scans are more your style) that says that you’d much rather just have your key or key fob stolen…

By: fuzzyfuzzyfungus

fuzzyfuzzyfungus — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:24:00 +0000

I’m not sure. I know that the ‘Onstar’ stuff does some serious reporting-telematics-back-to-HQ things, so apparently they do care about some aspects of field experience.

By: roseviolet

roseviolet — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:11:00 +0000

It’s really a mix of both problems. The operator of the station shouldn’t have been on the frequency or frequencies. However, at the same time, the owners of the cars should have pulled their heads out long enough and far enough to read the manual and get to know about the keyless entry system and its troubleshooting – or at bare minimum they all should have read the section about the operation of the keyless entry system and someone in the dealer’s service department should have gotten very familiar with the section of the service manual on in depth trouble shooting of it. Had they done so, someone would have figured out much sooner that there was signal crossover from *something* that *someone* was operating and it would have gone directly to getting the appropriate agency or agencies involved in figuring out who was operating what, where in violation of FCC regulations to cause the problems.

Furthermore, while it *is* a security thing, because this *is* a known problem, there should be a work around – specifically for safety’s sake BESIDES having to wait around for a tow truck and having your car towed to a dealer. And this should be done as a fail-safe specifically for the sake of security – because there are multiple reasons why a wireless device can fail.

By: decoy131

decoy131 — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:09:00 +0000

Internet regulation would be more akin to broadcast standards.
Ignoring the FCC regulations in this manner would be more like a DoS or perhaps misconfiguring a local network and breaking your network access.

By: Amsterdaam

Amsterdaam — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:01:00 +0000

My 2012 Ford Fiesta has the controls like that.

http://file.kelleybluebookimages.com/kbb//vehicleimage/evoxseo/l/7682/2012-ford-fiesta-key_7682_147_320x240.jpg

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:24:00 +0000

There is a car that has the keyless entry built into the handle of the key itself. I can’t remember what it was, though.

By: Ronald Pottol

Ronald Pottol — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:22:00 +0000

I rather like the Ford keyless entry system, it is a touchpad on the drivers door, truly keyless, you enter the pin, and unlock the drivers door, all doors, or the trunk, depending on the code. Very handy.

By: dolo54

dolo54 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 22:57:00 +0000

its a security feature. locks can be broken, but hacking the signal to the security brain is outside the purview of the common car thief.

By: dolo54

dolo54 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 22:56:00 +0000

sounds good, now convince a car company to spend an extra 5 cents a car on that technology :)