Comments on: Ancient Chinese art used a toxic lacquer made from a relative of poison ivy http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 18 May 2013 08:34:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618809 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618809 Hmm. The last time that I ate pistachios, I got hives. I haven't had any problems with mangoes or cashews so far. Hmm. The last time that I ate pistachios, I got hives. I haven’t had any problems with mangoes or cashews so far.

]]> By: Lauren http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618806 Lauren Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618806 Over the years I've developed / discovered an allergy to mangoes, cashew, and pistachio — in that order — and the reaction has gotten worse. They all have urushio, which is in poison oak as well as poison ivy. Over the years I’ve developed / discovered an allergy to mangoes, cashew, and pistachio — in that order — and the reaction has gotten worse. They all have urushio, which is in poison oak as well as poison ivy.

]]> By: Promethean Sky http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618782 Promethean Sky Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618782  People have varying degrees of sensitivity to poison ivy. Much of my family has a general immunity to urushiol oil, though my brother gained an allergy after excessive exposure. He has since regained his immunity though, after many years.  People have varying degrees of sensitivity to poison ivy. Much of my family has a general immunity to urushiol oil, though my brother gained an allergy after excessive exposure. He has since regained his immunity though, after many years.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618379 Lemoutan Tue, 01 Jan 2013 08:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618379 Tsch. We really must stop <em>doing</em> that. Tsch. We really must stop doing that.

]]> By: L_Mariachi http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618355 L_Mariachi Tue, 01 Jan 2013 06:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618355 That happened in <i>Prometheus</i> too. That happened in Prometheus too.

]]> By: James Churchill http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618352 James Churchill Tue, 01 Jan 2013 06:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618352 There's a series of videos on youtube showing the making of lacquerware - even if the maker isn't allergic, his entire technique is very obviously designed to prevent any and all contact with the urushiol lacquer. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5599574D17725103 There’s a series of videos on youtube showing the making of lacquerware – even if the maker isn’t allergic, his entire technique is very obviously designed to prevent any and all contact with the urushiol lacquer.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5599574D17725103

]]> By: ryuthrowsstuff http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618338 ryuthrowsstuff Tue, 01 Jan 2013 05:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618338 It might be that for people without a specific allergy to these oils will eventually gain a tolerance. Those of us with an allergy will get worse with continued exposure. I know that's roughly how it works with bees, and as some one who's dangerously allergic to urushiol I can certainly say I'm not getting any less dangerously allergic. As an interesting side note I've been warned not to handle Asian lacquer work for fear that I might react to even the dry stuff. It might be that for people without a specific allergy to these oils will eventually gain a tolerance. Those of us with an allergy will get worse with continued exposure. I know that’s roughly how it works with bees, and as some one who’s dangerously allergic to urushiol I can certainly say I’m not getting any less dangerously allergic.

As an interesting side note I’ve been warned not to handle Asian lacquer work for fear that I might react to even the dry stuff.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618330 Lemoutan Tue, 01 Jan 2013 05:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618330 There's a dramatic scene in Fellini's <em>Roma</em> which shows rapid degradation of murals as a long-sealed chamber is opened up to the outside air. There’s a dramatic scene in Fellini’s Roma which shows rapid degradation of murals as a long-sealed chamber is opened up to the outside air.

]]> By: m_a_s http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618325 m_a_s Tue, 01 Jan 2013 04:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618325 The use of this lacquer is still used today---especially in Japan. In fact, I recently bought a new pen that was decorated with urushi-e. Here's an interesting link regarding a similar craft: maki-e:  http://www.pentrace.net/penbase/Data_Returns/full_article.asp?ID=194 The use of this lacquer is still used today—especially in Japan.
In fact, I recently bought a new pen that was decorated with urushi-e.
Here’s an interesting link regarding a similar craft: maki-e:  http://www.pentrace.net/penbase/Data_Returns/full_article.asp?ID=194

]]> By: cdh1971 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618243 cdh1971 Tue, 01 Jan 2013 01:07:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618243 Good point chenille, thanks for the reminder. I remember that when the researchers first opened and gazed upon the terracotta soldiers, they were painted in lifelike and vivid colours and within a crazy-short time, the paint interacted with the newly introduced air and disintegrated as they watched. Since then, the scientists have been very, very careful about how new discoveries are approached and handled. The researchers were able to use forensic chemistry to make computer models that approximated what they saw when they first opened the chamber, but, you know, like the song says, "...ain't nothing like..." I just skimmed the WikiP article and while it mentions how the figures were originally brightly colored, It doesn't really say anything about the near instant degradation of of the figures upon contact with new air -- but I'm certain I've seen this from a couple of sources - just cannot remember where. Wait...wait...I just did a bit of looking, I'm wondering if I misremembered about the color instantly flaking. Maybe I was thinking of some other relics 'cause I do remember reading about the instant degradation somewhere. Anyway, here's the link, I've read the first two or so pages, looks like a good article: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/10/c_131643294.htm and another, http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/06/terra-cotta-warriors/larmer-text Good point chenille, thanks for the reminder. I remember that when the researchers first opened and gazed upon the terracotta soldiers, they were painted in lifelike and vivid colours and within a crazy-short time, the paint interacted with the newly introduced air and disintegrated as they watched. Since then, the scientists have been very, very careful about how new discoveries are approached and handled. The researchers were able to use forensic chemistry to make computer models that approximated what they saw when they first opened the chamber, but, you know, like the song says, “…ain’t nothing like…”

I just skimmed the WikiP article and while it mentions how the figures were originally brightly colored, It doesn’t really say anything about the near instant degradation of of the figures upon contact with new air — but I’m certain I’ve seen this from a couple of sources – just cannot remember where.

Wait…wait…I just did a bit of looking, I’m wondering if I misremembered about the color instantly flaking. Maybe I was thinking of some other relics ’cause I do remember reading about the instant degradation somewhere.

Anyway, here’s the link, I’ve read the first two or so pages, looks like a good article:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/10/c_131643294.htm

and another,

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/06/terra-cotta-warriors/larmer-text

]]> By: Bryan Bishop http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618200 Bryan Bishop Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618200 beat me too it! and although a lot of traditional, ancient lacquers were derived from tree resins (just like turpentine), shellac isn't the bug's shell (although theres gonna be bug shells in there), but a natural resin they excrete after sucking the sap out of trees. it's also a completely naturally occuring polymer! especially considering that the only solvent it needs to break it down is alcohol (unless you are using methanol you are looking at a very non toxic, natural substance) ! when most people say lacquer today they are usually either refering to nitro-cellulose (another cool thing in its own right!) or polyuerothanes (but between you and me  theres a reason why polyuerothane is usually just called clear coat, and not lacquer: it sucks in comparison) beat me too it! and although a lot of traditional, ancient lacquers were derived from tree resins (just like turpentine), shellac isn’t the bug’s shell (although theres gonna be bug shells in there), but a natural resin they excrete after sucking the sap out of trees. it’s also a completely naturally occuring polymer! especially considering that the only solvent it needs to break it down is alcohol (unless you are using methanol you are looking at a very non toxic, natural substance) ! when most people say lacquer today they are usually either refering to nitro-cellulose (another cool thing in its own right!) or polyuerothanes (but between you and me  theres a reason why polyuerothane is usually just called clear coat, and not lacquer: it sucks in comparison)

]]> By: Snig http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618199 Snig Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618199 I believe it's dosage dependent, an exposure to a high dose can promote sensitization and a reaction, whereas a low steadily increasing dose can lead to tolerance, like they use for allergy shots.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergen_immunotherapy I believe it’s dosage dependent, an exposure to a high dose can promote sensitization and a reaction, whereas a low steadily increasing dose can lead to tolerance, like they use for allergy shots.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergen_immunotherapy

]]> By: Snig http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618191 Snig Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618191 Also a relative of mangoes, which also have the oil in their leaves and saps, as well as the peel of the fruit.  If you're sensitized to poison ivy, you can possibly cross react with the peel.  Whenever I see poison ivy in the wild, I feel disappointed off that there's not a mango tree growing there instead. Also a relative of mangoes, which also have the oil in their leaves and saps, as well as the peel of the fruit.  If you’re sensitized to poison ivy, you can possibly cross react with the peel.  Whenever I see poison ivy in the wild, I feel disappointed off that there’s not a mango tree growing there instead.

]]> By: L_Mariachi http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618142 L_Mariachi Mon, 31 Dec 2012 22:19:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618142 I thought <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellac" rel="nofollow">shellac</a> was made from the excretions of beetles, not the beetles themselves. Wikipedia suggests that the bugs are sort of a "bycatch" in the collection process. I thought shellac was made from the excretions of beetles, not the beetles themselves. Wikipedia suggests that the bugs are sort of a “bycatch” in the collection process.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618130 Antinous / Moderator Mon, 31 Dec 2012 22:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618130 The reservoir in my hometown was on the site of a Colonial era hat factory.  What could possibly go wrong? The reservoir in my hometown was on the site of a Colonial era hat factory.  What could possibly go wrong?

]]> By: Boris Bartlog http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618128 Boris Bartlog Mon, 31 Dec 2012 21:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618128  Yes, this is urushi lacquer. http://www.kyotoguide.com/ver2/thismonth/urushi.html  Yes, this is urushi lacquer. http://www.kyotoguide.com/ver2/thismonth/urushi.html

]]> By: adamrice http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618116 adamrice Mon, 31 Dec 2012 21:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618116 Fun fact: the word for the stuff in poison ivy that makes you itch is "urushiol." "Urushi" is the Japanese word for the lacquer tree, or for lacquer. Fun fact: the word for the stuff in poison ivy that makes you itch is “urushiol.” “Urushi” is the Japanese word for the lacquer tree, or for lacquer.

]]> By: chenille http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618100 chenille Mon, 31 Dec 2012 21:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618100 <blockquote>Partly, this is a bureaucratic issue. But the larger problem is the mercury-laden soil...</blockquote>This seems an odd way to put it. As the linked article says, the main problem is less the dangers and more concern about damaging the <i>artifacts</i>, the way the Terracotta soldiers lost their paint right away. That's almost the opposite of the usual red tape, since it's a rare example of planning for the long term.

Partly, this is a bureaucratic issue. But the larger problem is the mercury-laden soil…

This seems an odd way to put it. As the linked article says, the main problem is less the dangers and more concern about damaging the artifacts, the way the Terracotta soldiers lost their paint right away. That’s almost the opposite of the usual red tape, since it’s a rare example of planning for the long term.

]]> By: timquinn http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618061 timquinn Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618061 But that would kill you . . . ah, I see what you did there. But that would kill you . . . ah, I see what you did there.

]]> By: timquinn http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618060 timquinn Mon, 31 Dec 2012 20:04:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618060 I'd like to say that shellac and lacquer are two distinct coatings with different properties that means shellac did not replace lacquer. Not a big deal, but the difference is very useful to finishers because they have different solvents and can be alternated in layers to produce decorative finishes. Shellac is used as a barrier layer also because it will not dissolve in the presence of hydrocarbons. Maybe I have provided you with a painless way to fulfill your quota of learning something everyday. I’d like to say that shellac and lacquer are two distinct coatings with different properties that means shellac did not replace lacquer. Not a big deal, but the difference is very useful to finishers because they have different solvents and can be alternated in layers to produce decorative finishes. Shellac is used as a barrier layer also because it will not dissolve in the presence of hydrocarbons. Maybe I have provided you with a painless way to fulfill your quota of learning something everyday.

]]> By: timquinn http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618053 timquinn Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618053 Also, cashew shell oil is used in medicine and is a valuable crop in its own right. Also, cashew shell oil is used in medicine and is a valuable crop in its own right.

]]> By: solstice2005 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618045 solstice2005 Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618045 Interesting but needs to be confirmed.  I was told my a dermatologist that actually previous exposure to allergen such as urushiol increases the body sensitivity to later exposure and aggravates the symptoms: I apparently have been a text book case of it. Interesting but needs to be confirmed.  I was told my a dermatologist that actually previous exposure to allergen such as urushiol increases the body sensitivity to later exposure and aggravates the symptoms: I apparently have been a text book case of it.

]]> By: solstice2005 http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618041 solstice2005 Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618041 The tradition continues with the poisoning of their rivers! The tradition continues with the poisoning of their rivers!

]]> By: CSMcDonald http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618016 CSMcDonald Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618016 Thanks :)  Turns out I've already seen this one :) Thanks :)  Turns out I’ve already seen this one :)

]]> By: CSMcDonald http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1618017 CSMcDonald Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1618017 Thank you :) Thank you :)

]]> By: jandrese http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1617997 jandrese Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1617997 It appears to be available on Netflix: http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70180207?strkid=1234113053_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70180207 It appears to be available on Netflix:

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70180207?strkid=1234113053_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70180207

]]> By: Saltine http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1617951 Saltine Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1617951 http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/featured/chinas-terracotta-warriors-about-this-episode/812/ http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/featured/chinas-terracotta-warriors-about-this-episode/812/

]]> By: Di- San http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1617946 Di- San Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1617946 I would just like to say that when my time comes, I would like to build a model of my imaginary palatial estate and place it on my tomb as well. The landscape fountains will be flowing with mercury and the house will be insulated with asbestos. I would just like to say that when my time comes, I would like to build a model of my imaginary palatial estate and place it on my tomb as well. The landscape fountains will be flowing with mercury and the house will be insulated with asbestos.

]]> By: CSMcDonald http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1617943 CSMcDonald Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1617943 What was the name of the documentary and is it available on Netflix? :) What was the name of the documentary and is it available on Netflix? :)

]]> By: David Schwan http://boingboing.net/2012/12/31/ancient-chinese-art-used-a-tox.html#comment-1617932 David Schwan Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:14:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203292#comment-1617932  Chinese red seal paste is made with Cinnabar (Mercury) and is in use even today.  Chinese red seal paste is made with Cinnabar (Mercury) and is in use even today.

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