Comments on: Anatomy of a patent troll who wants $1000 from every scanner user in America: patents are totally, utterly broken http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:33:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: AlexMacfie http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1621676 AlexMacfie Mon, 07 Jan 2013 11:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1621676 It's not quite as simple as that (as I understand things -- IANAL). The vendors and manufacturers could be taken to court for "inducement", especially if the process (allegedly) described in the patent is in the instruction manual of the scanner. It’s not quite as simple as that (as I understand things — IANAL). The vendors and manufacturers could be taken to court for “inducement”, especially if the process (allegedly) described in the patent is in the instruction manual of the scanner.

]]> By: Marc Mielke http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1620244 Marc Mielke Fri, 04 Jan 2013 03:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1620244 My first suggestion would be: someone else do it. Frankly, I'm too busy eating cheetos to care enough that other people are getting sued to stick my neck out and organize an extensive campaign of personal destruction, as fun as that might be.  Next idea: croudsourced murder-for-hire. Betcha Special Victims Unit gets to the plot before RL.  My first suggestion would be: someone else do it. Frankly, I’m too busy eating cheetos to care enough that other people are getting sued to stick my neck out and organize an extensive campaign of personal destruction, as fun as that might be. 

Next idea: croudsourced murder-for-hire. Betcha Special Victims Unit gets to the plot before RL. 

]]> By: Roger Strong http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619852 Roger Strong Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619852 If patents give the scammers a unique and easy way to extort people - and they do - then it is indeed a patent issue. If patents give the scammers a unique and easy way to extort people – and they do – then it is indeed a patent issue.

]]> By: zieroh http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619832 zieroh Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619832 This. This.

]]> By: zieroh http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619829 zieroh Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619829 That's a <i>legal</i> issue, though. It's got nothing to do with patents. In fact, people have been abusing the court system for literally <i>decades</i>, suing people frivolously. They certainly don't need patents to do so. That's just one convenient approach. Seems pretty obvious to me that if there's a problem here, it is with the legal system. That’s a legal issue, though. It’s got nothing to do with patents. In fact, people have been abusing the court system for literally decades, suing people frivolously. They certainly don’t need patents to do so. That’s just one convenient approach.

Seems pretty obvious to me that if there’s a problem here, it is with the legal system.

]]> By: TheMadLibrarian http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619798 TheMadLibrarian Thu, 03 Jan 2013 19:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619798  I think you need to fix your sarcasm meter, or at least your hyperbole detector.  I think you need to fix your sarcasm meter, or at least your hyperbole detector.

]]> By: Richard Melvin http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619712 Richard Melvin Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619712 There's nothing particularly specific related to patent law in this kind of shakedown - it applies in any case where: 1. a law exists that allows suing for damages 2. amount demanded < (likely damages * chance of losing) + costs Which can easily be true where the chance of losing a case is in the single digit percentages. So you either repeal pretty much all civil law, from patents to environmental regulations. Or you change the equation such that truly frivolous suits are a los-making proposition, The usual way suggested for that is to allow the judge to award both sides costs as part of the settlement, as is done everywhere outside the US. http://www.pointoflaw.com/loserpays/overview.php There’s nothing particularly specific related to patent law in this kind of shakedown – it applies in any case where:

1. a law exists that allows suing for damages
2. amount demanded < (likely damages * chance of losing) + costs

Which can easily be true where the chance of losing a case is in the single digit percentages.

So you either repeal pretty much all civil law, from patents to environmental regulations. Or you change the equation such that truly frivolous suits are a los-making proposition, The usual way suggested for that is to allow the judge to award both sides costs as part of the settlement, as is done everywhere outside the US.

http://www.pointoflaw.com/loserpays/overview.php

]]> By: C W http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619637 C W Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619637 They're also really good at taking orders. They’re also really good at taking orders.

]]> By: C W http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619635 C W Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619635 Sounds like the ravings of every not-very-smart LOIC user who is now in jail. I agree that they need to be stopped, but sloppy, ineffective, and unhinged isn't the way to do it. Sounds like the ravings of every not-very-smart LOIC user who is now in jail.

I agree that they need to be stopped, but sloppy, ineffective, and unhinged isn’t the way to do it.

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619604 SomeGuyNamedMark Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619604 There will never be patent reform in this country as long as the bulk of politicians are lawyers by trade There will never be patent reform in this country as long as the bulk of politicians are lawyers by trade

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619603 SomeGuyNamedMark Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619603  We really need loser pays laws in this country  We really need loser pays laws in this country

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619602 SomeGuyNamedMark Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619602 IMHO I think they should never have allowed software patents in the first place. IMHO I think they should never have allowed software patents in the first place.

]]> By: Andrew Singleton http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619563 Andrew Singleton Thu, 03 Jan 2013 14:10:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619563 Must've used the same math the RIAA uses for each download of a song. Must’ve used the same math the RIAA uses for each download of a song.

]]> By: Andrew Singleton http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619558 Andrew Singleton Thu, 03 Jan 2013 14:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619558 Except I already patented that particular method of threat. Pay up Jimbo. Except I already patented that particular method of threat. Pay up Jimbo.

]]> By: Andrew Singleton http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619555 Andrew Singleton Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:48:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619555 Hey maybe this is why lawyers were abolished in back to the future 2's timeline. Hey maybe this is why lawyers were abolished in back to the future 2′s timeline.

]]> By: nowimnothing http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619546 nowimnothing Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619546 I disagree that fixing the patent system would not cut down on the opportunities for this kind of abuse, just as if we legalized all undocumented workers would cut down on the scenario you postulated.  It may not be a panacea for the corrupt legal system, but that does not mean it is not worth doing as a part of the solution. I disagree that fixing the patent system would not cut down on the opportunities for this kind of abuse, just as if we legalized all undocumented workers would cut down on the scenario you postulated. 
It may not be a panacea for the corrupt legal system, but that does not mean it is not worth doing as a part of the solution.

]]> By: nowimnothing http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619544 nowimnothing Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619544 From the article it seemed like these were "use" or utility patents rather than design patents. Since the vendor is not "using" the technology in the way described they are not liable for the infringing ways their customers are using their devices. Normally we would think of this as a good thing, but here, yeah it is pretty messed up. The simplest answer is that these patents should never have been awarded in the first place. Since they were, we can all see the major issues with fighting bad patents once they are awarded. From the article it seemed like these were “use” or utility patents rather than design patents.
Since the vendor is not “using” the technology in the way described they are not liable for the infringing ways their customers are using their devices. Normally we would think of this as a good thing, but here, yeah it is pretty messed up.
The simplest answer is that these patents should never have been awarded in the first place. Since they were, we can all see the major issues with fighting bad patents once they are awarded.

]]> By: Scratcheee http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619541 Scratcheee Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619541 Actually, bars paying royalties for the music they play (live or recorded) is a pretty well established practice.  It is, after all, a public performance of a copyrighted work.   This scanner thing seems to me more like someone going around to bars and saying they hold a patent on the guitar, and demanding payment any time a guitar is played. As an aside, patent or no patent, $1000 per user seems like an outrageous licensing fee to me. Actually, bars paying royalties for the music they play (live or recorded) is a pretty well established practice.  It is, after all, a public performance of a copyrighted work.  

This scanner thing seems to me more like someone going around to bars and saying they hold a patent on the guitar, and demanding payment any time a guitar is played.

As an aside, patent or no patent, $1000 per user seems like an outrageous licensing fee to me.

]]> By: awjt http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619537 awjt Thu, 03 Jan 2013 12:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619537 I'd rather takem down for good with a silly string assault army. I’d rather takem down for good with a silly string assault army.

]]> By: Bob Harvey http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619515 Bob Harvey Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619515 They do a similar thing in Wi. to the Taverns that play live music. They say they are from BMI or something ask for money for playing copyrighted music at $200. a year. Some actually pay. Some won't allow bands anymore and some tell them to F-off. They say that if a band comes in and plays a cover song they will be sued some stupid amount.  They do a similar thing in Wi. to the Taverns that play live music. They say they are from BMI or something ask for money for playing copyrighted music at $200. a year. Some actually pay. Some won’t allow bands anymore and some tell them to F-off. They say that if a band comes in and plays a cover song they will be sued some stupid amount. 

]]> By: Marc Mielke http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619510 Marc Mielke Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619510 This calls for the most extreme, cat-bin-lady level of personal destruction. Frame them all for kiddie porn...destroy their reputations so completely that they can't even be prostitutes. Salt any land they have trod upon, and when they die, destroy their tombstones so no evidence of their existence remains. This calls for the most extreme, cat-bin-lady level of personal destruction. Frame them all for kiddie porn…destroy their reputations so completely that they can’t even be prostitutes.

Salt any land they have trod upon, and when they die, destroy their tombstones so no evidence of their existence remains.

]]> By: xen0z0id http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619508 xen0z0id Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619508 in a world were lawyers are needed to be politician and comedian work their way to political spheres while p(l)aying lawyer and wrestlers/steroid addicts, it is not a surprise that the nobel prize is a war mongerer, i wonder if all politicians are liars? and call them self journalists,poor world really,if it was not an invention lying will be a sin....OMG!!!! sunt tzu you should have name your work the art of lies in a world were lawyers are needed to be politician and comedian work their way to political spheres while p(l)aying lawyer and wrestlers/steroid addicts, it is not a surprise that the nobel prize is a war mongerer, i wonder if all politicians are liars? and call them self journalists,poor world really,if it was not an invention lying will be a sin….OMG!!!! sunt tzu you should have name your work the art of lies

]]> By: Avi Techwriter http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619498 Avi Techwriter Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619498 We need a blanket Patent Pledge asap: http://thepatentpledge.org We need a blanket Patent Pledge asap:
http://thepatentpledge.org

]]> By: Roger Strong http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619497 Roger Strong Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619497 Well sure.  But the court is obligated to recognize when the court system is being abused, and put a stop to it. Otherwise people will lose all respect for that court, save the respect one gives a thug with a gun.  And they'll ignore or disobey that court where-ever possible. Well sure.  But the court is obligated to recognize when the court system is being abused, and put a stop to it.

Otherwise people will lose all respect for that court, save the respect one gives a thug with a gun.  And they’ll ignore or disobey that court where-ever possible.

]]> By: nixiebunny http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619495 nixiebunny Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619495 Too bad that fact isn't usable to get the court to ignore the patent bullies. You'd still have to pay a lawyer many thousands of $$ to tell the judge that, and they still might ignore you. Too bad that fact isn’t usable to get the court to ignore the patent bullies. You’d still have to pay a lawyer many thousands of $$ to tell the judge that, and they still might ignore you.

]]> By: nixiebunny http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619494 nixiebunny Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619494 This isn't about the patent system; this is about crooked lawyer bullies. The patent system is just a convenient arena for their bullying; the cost vs benefit of lawsuit threats is their method. This isn’t about the patent system; this is about crooked lawyer bullies. The patent system is just a convenient arena for their bullying; the cost vs benefit of lawsuit threats is their method.

]]> By: humanresource http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619492 humanresource Thu, 03 Jan 2013 06:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619492 Roger puts it better, but I also strongly disagree with your argument. The costs of upholding one's rights (money, time, stress etc) exceed the costs of sacrificing them. This so clearly true that there are firms which have a whole business model centred around exploiting this miserable situation. No one here has defined what a "broken legal system" actually is, but can you improve on this definition? "A legal system that makes it preferable to abandon one's legal rights, instead of enforcing them." Roger puts it better, but I also strongly disagree with your argument. The costs of upholding one’s rights (money, time, stress etc) exceed the costs of sacrificing them. This so clearly true that there are firms which have a whole business model centred around exploiting this miserable situation.

No one here has defined what a “broken legal system” actually is, but can you improve on this definition? “A legal system that makes it preferable to abandon one’s legal rights, instead of enforcing them.”

]]> By: Roger Strong http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619487 Roger Strong Thu, 03 Jan 2013 06:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619487 We were doing this in 1994.  Windows for Workgroups 3.11 came with network fax software built in.  One machine on the network had a fax modem, and everyone else - including at least one machine with a cheap scanner - could fax documents through it. We were doing this in 1994.  Windows for Workgroups 3.11 came with network fax software built in.  One machine on the network had a fax modem, and everyone else – including at least one machine with a cheap scanner – could fax documents through it.

]]> By: Roger Strong http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619486 Roger Strong Thu, 03 Jan 2013 06:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619486 By the same logic:  A schoolyard bully will occasionally find, to his surprise, that the kid he's trying to beat up is going to fight back.  Rather than risk losing, he's free to find a weaker kid and smash THAT kid's face into the pavement.  Since the stronger victim "won", this proves there's no need to control the bully.  Q.E.D. By the same logic:  A schoolyard bully will occasionally find, to his surprise, that the kid he’s trying to beat up is going to fight back.  Rather than risk losing, he’s free to find a weaker kid and smash THAT kid’s face into the pavement.  Since the stronger victim “won”, this proves there’s no need to control the bully.  Q.E.D.

]]> By: James Churchill http://boingboing.net/2013/01/02/anatomy-of-a-patent-troll-who.html#comment-1619485 James Churchill Thu, 03 Jan 2013 06:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=203572#comment-1619485 I learned recently that patents have been interfering with innovation at least as far back as the *invention of the steam locomotive*, so anyone who says different should be forced to live in pre-industrial revolution conditions. I learned recently that patents have been interfering with innovation at least as far back as the *invention of the steam locomotive*, so anyone who says different should be forced to live in pre-industrial revolution conditions.

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