Comments on: Beijing air "like an airport smokers’ lounge" http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 18:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: kiptw http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1630392 kiptw Thu, 17 Jan 2013 19:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1630392 In July 2011, we took our adopted daughter to see her native China. When we got into the airport terminal in Beijing it wasn't too crowded, probably because it was the middle of night, since our flight was four hours late coming in, but the first long corridor we went down was actually smokey, for reasons nobody ever explained. http://www.flickr.com/photos/kipw/5952821107/in/set-72157627104995505 It was like that in 2003 as well. We bought a souvenir book from Hefei, and something looked odd about the panoramic photo of the city. When I looked next to the buildings, I could see that they had edited a nice blue sky in, but bits of the grey-brown smoggy original were still visible right by the walls. My photos of Hefei show the sun as a red disk trapped in the haze. They love fireworks, too. So do I, but they don't seem to wait for much of an occasion to set them off. In July 2011, we took our adopted daughter to see her native China. When we got into the airport terminal in Beijing it wasn’t too crowded, probably because it was the middle of night, since our flight was four hours late coming in, but the first long corridor we went down was actually smokey, for reasons nobody ever explained.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kipw/5952821107/in/set-72157627104995505

It was like that in 2003 as well. We bought a souvenir book from Hefei, and something looked odd about the panoramic photo of the city. When I looked next to the buildings, I could see that they had edited a nice blue sky in, but bits of the grey-brown smoggy original were still visible right by the walls. My photos of Hefei show the sun as a red disk trapped in the haze.

They love fireworks, too. So do I, but they don’t seem to wait for much of an occasion to set them off.

]]> By: Mitchell Glaser http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1628094 Mitchell Glaser Tue, 15 Jan 2013 00:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1628094 The issue I am trying to point out is not just pollution. The U.S. seems to want to lead the world into an era of peace at the point of a gun, when it is hard to find as much as a twenty year stretch of peacetime in our entire history. And when it comes to the U.S. benefitting from the experience of other countries that have make tremendous progress in, say, reducing gun deaths by restricting guns or reducing drug addiction by legalizing drugs, fuggedaboutit! We suggest others learn from our experience, but we never return the favor. The issue I am trying to point out is not just pollution. The U.S. seems to want to lead the world into an era of peace at the point of a gun, when it is hard to find as much as a twenty year stretch of peacetime in our entire history. And when it comes to the U.S. benefitting from the experience of other countries that have make tremendous progress in, say, reducing gun deaths by restricting guns or reducing drug addiction by legalizing drugs, fuggedaboutit! We suggest others learn from our experience, but we never return the favor.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627883 Antinous / Moderator Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:58:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627883 <blockquote>America and England both went through periods of high pollution on their way to becoming industrial powers</blockquote>And China's population is ten times what ours was at the time.

America and England both went through periods of high pollution on their way to becoming industrial powers

And China’s population is ten times what ours was at the time.

]]> By: spejic http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627785 spejic Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627785 Maybe it isn't hypocrisy, but instead hoping they would benefit from our experience. There's no reason why you must go through a pollution phase while undergoing industrialization. Maybe it isn’t hypocrisy, but instead hoping they would benefit from our experience. There’s no reason why you must go through a pollution phase while undergoing industrialization.

]]> By: Dave Pease http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627744 Dave Pease Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627744 Its smoggy but its amazing anyway.  I highly recommend visiting. Its smoggy but its amazing anyway.  I highly recommend visiting.

]]> By: Felipe Esquivel Reed http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627731 Felipe Esquivel Reed Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:33:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627731 There's no direct way to know because we use our own scale called IMECA. The idea is to not have comparison with other cities. However, 2012 was a very clean year, with just a couple of special polluted days. There’s no direct way to know because we use our own scale called IMECA. The idea is to not have comparison with other cities. However, 2012 was a very clean year, with just a couple of special polluted days.

]]> By: Mitchell Glaser http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627649 Mitchell Glaser Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627649 America and England both went through periods of high pollution on their way to becoming industrial powers, but it seems like we don't want to allow anyone else to do the same. I am not in the least in favor of China's pollution or anybody else's, but I see a great hypocrisy in this. Not unlike our horror at watching Brazil cut down the Amazon rainforests after having destroyed the prairies of America and polluted the Great Lakes ourselves. Can you imagine if we had managed the self-sustaining herds of buffalo, how many people could have been fed with little damage to the environment? But as I read the history, we exterminated that incredible resource for cheap fur and to kill off Native Americans. America and England both went through periods of high pollution on their way to becoming industrial powers, but it seems like we don’t want to allow anyone else to do the same. I am not in the least in favor of China’s pollution or anybody else’s, but I see a great hypocrisy in this. Not unlike our horror at watching Brazil cut down the Amazon rainforests after having destroyed the prairies of America and polluted the Great Lakes ourselves. Can you imagine if we had managed the self-sustaining herds of buffalo, how many people could have been fed with little damage to the environment? But as I read the history, we exterminated that incredible resource for cheap fur and to kill off Native Americans.

]]> By: Michael Flynn http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627567 Michael Flynn Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627567 Thank you for linking to the cable. It's the first time I've read something from it that was connected to a news article I was already reading. Fascinating (and eye-opening). Thank you for linking to the cable. It’s the first time I’ve read something from it that was connected to a news article I was already reading. Fascinating (and eye-opening).

]]> By: SomeGuyNamedMark http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627543 SomeGuyNamedMark Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:22:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627543 I wonder how Mexico City's numbers stack up now.  When I was there years ago I was impressed by how relatively clean the air seemed vs all the horror stories I was told before going. I wonder how Mexico City’s numbers stack up now.  When I was there years ago I was impressed by how relatively clean the air seemed vs all the horror stories I was told before going.

]]> By: JeffreyMartin360Cities http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627538 JeffreyMartin360Cities Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627538 People couldn't see their own feet? I'm sorry but this sounds apocryphal to me.  A quick search on google images reveals that I can see *their* feet. https://www.google.com/search?q=Great+London+Smog+of+1952&hl=en&tbo=u&rlz=1C1GGGE_enCZ456CZ456&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FyL0UIetN62p0AXClYH4Cg&ved=0CDwQsAQ&biw=1193&bih=902 Yes, it is certainly awful, no on is denying that. People couldn’t see their own feet? I’m sorry but this sounds apocryphal to me. 

A quick search on google images reveals that I can see *their* feet.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Great+London+Smog+of+1952&hl=en&tbo=u&rlz=1C1GGGE_enCZ456CZ456&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FyL0UIetN62p0AXClYH4Cg&ved=0CDwQsAQ&biw=1193&bih=902

Yes, it is certainly awful, no on is denying that.

]]> By: IndexMe http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627526 IndexMe Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627526 I was invited to go to Beijing but after this thread? Forget! It! I was invited to go to Beijing but after this thread? Forget! It!

]]> By: Symbiote http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627509 Symbiote Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627509 I went to Beijing with a colleague, we both stayed about a week.  On day three it rained overnight, and the difference when I woke up was amazing — the yellow haze was gone, and it finally looked like proper sunshine. We were both coughing a week after returning. 15 minutes though? That's awful. I went to Beijing with a colleague, we both stayed about a week.  On day three it rained overnight, and the difference when I woke up was amazing — the yellow haze was gone, and it finally looked like proper sunshine.

We were both coughing a week after returning.

15 minutes though? That’s awful.

]]> By: Symbiote http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627508 Symbiote Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627508 I think the London average reading is about 23, from here: http://www.airqualitynow.eu/comparing_home.php I think the London average reading is about 23, from here: http://www.airqualitynow.eu/comparing_home.php

]]> By: Jonathan Roberts http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627498 Jonathan Roberts Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:47:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627498 800 is also a record high for Beijing, and the rest of the week was more like half of that or even lower. So like, hardly even five or ten times as high as LA. 800 is also a record high for Beijing, and the rest of the week was more like half of that or even lower. So like, hardly even five or ten times as high as LA.

]]> By: Richard Kirk http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627496 Richard Kirk Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627496 I wonder how the great smogs of London in the fifties would rate on the modern air quality figures. Yellow fog so thick that people could not see their own feet, and several thousand deaths a day. I wonder how the great smogs of London in the fifties would rate on the modern air quality figures. Yellow fog so thick that people could not see their own feet, and several thousand deaths a day.

]]> By: Jonathan Roberts http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627491 Jonathan Roberts Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627491 Turns out I have *really* bad taste when it comes to finding places to live. You never know though, Tolkien spent a lot of time in the Black Country just south of Birmingham, and would have seen the smoke of the big cities in the distance. At least one site has seen a connection http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/Home/JRR-Tolkien-the-Black-Country-29062011.htm and commented that seeing clouds of smoke with flashes of red in the distance would have had quite a strong influence on him as a child. The article also comments on the influence of West Midland English dialect on some characters such as Smeagol, which is... nice, I guess. Tolkein's son ended up as the priest in charge of the church next to our hose in Stoke. Incidentally, the name 'Black Country' had no racial connotations, the whole area was just really black from the smoke and soot. People had a sort of perverse pride in the smoke, as it symbolized the industrial strength of the region. Bad habits now seen as typically Chinese, such as coughing up phlegm and spitting it on the street were also pretty common, for obvious reasons. Turns out I have *really* bad taste when it comes to finding places to live. You never know though, Tolkien spent a lot of time in the Black Country just south of Birmingham, and would have seen the smoke of the big cities in the distance. At least one site has seen a connection http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/Home/JRR-Tolkien-the-Black-Country-29062011.htm and commented that seeing clouds of smoke with flashes of red in the distance would have had quite a strong influence on him as a child. The article also comments on the influence of West Midland English dialect on some characters such as Smeagol, which is… nice, I guess. Tolkein’s son ended up as the priest in charge of the church next to our hose in Stoke. Incidentally, the name ‘Black Country’ had no racial connotations, the whole area was just really black from the smoke and soot.

People had a sort of perverse pride in the smoke, as it symbolized the industrial strength of the region. Bad habits now seen as typically Chinese, such as coughing up phlegm and spitting it on the street were also pretty common, for obvious reasons.

]]> By: awjt http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627490 awjt Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627490 Orcs are expendable in Mordor. Orcs are expendable in Mordor.

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627482 Lemoutan Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627482 Or, more generally, how governments lie to their people. kileaks Or, more generally, how governments lie to their people. kileaks

]]> By: elix http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627480 elix Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:41:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627480 It's <i>Harper</i>. That's your answer. It’s Harper. That’s your answer.

]]> By: bzishi http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627477 bzishi Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627477 Wow! Are you sure you didn't mistake a drawing of Mordor with a photo of your city? Wow! Are you sure you didn’t mistake a drawing of Mordor with a photo of your city?

]]> By: Just_Ok http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627468 Just_Ok Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627468 He stands to gain power and profit, eh. He stands to gain power and profit, eh.

]]> By: Marios P. http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627461 Marios P. Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627461 and hoi oligoi ripe the profits (and do not pay for the externalities) and hoi oligoi ripe the profits (and do not pay for the externalities)

]]> By: Purplecat http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627460 Purplecat Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627460  I was thinking that a 19 for London was rather low, but if the reading is taken from the US embassy (Right beside both Hyde park and Grosvenor square gardens), then it's hardly representative of the city as a whole.  I was thinking that a 19 for London was rather low, but if the reading is taken from the US embassy (Right beside both Hyde park and Grosvenor square gardens), then it’s hardly representative of the city as a whole.

]]> By: Wreckrob8 http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627457 Wreckrob8 Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627457 London still falls short of what is required by EU air quality legislation. In some locations new flats now have to have windows which cannot open to be fully compliant with building regulations. This being England they put in large plate glass windows and no air-conditioning. I know, I lived in one temporarily. London still falls short of what is required by EU air quality legislation. In some locations new flats now have to have windows which cannot open to be fully compliant with building regulations. This being England they put in large plate glass windows and no air-conditioning. I know, I lived in one temporarily.

]]> By: Magnus Redin http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627453 Magnus Redin Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627453  Most of the oil is used bythe hoi polloi.  Most of the oil is used bythe hoi polloi.

]]> By: Jonathan Roberts http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627450 Jonathan Roberts Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627450 This was my city in England (Stoke-on-Trent), probably a bit over 100 years ago. Shenyang has the same kind of tall coal stacks which are used to heat apartment buildings, but the industry has largely been moved out of the city. This is one thing that the government can do in China, if there's enough will to change something it can happen very quickly. Although the picture here could have been altered to make the situation look worse, you don't see anything this bad in Shenyang. I can't find any statistics online about the pollution levels in Stoke before the clean air act in the 1950s, but there was a strong focus on Stoke-on-Trent at the time and the whole area is still considered a smoke control area under the act (making it an offence to emit smoke from a chimney of a building, a furnace or any fixed boiler in the whole city). This was my city in England (Stoke-on-Trent), probably a bit over 100 years ago. Shenyang has the same kind of tall coal stacks which are used to heat apartment buildings, but the industry has largely been moved out of the city. This is one thing that the government can do in China, if there’s enough will to change something it can happen very quickly. Although the picture here could have been altered to make the situation look worse, you don’t see anything this bad in Shenyang. I can’t find any statistics online about the pollution levels in Stoke before the clean air act in the 1950s, but there was a strong focus on Stoke-on-Trent at the time and the whole area is still considered a smoke control area under the act (making it an offence to emit smoke from a chimney of a building, a furnace or any fixed boiler in the whole city).

]]> By: Phil Cleaver http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627449 Phil Cleaver Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627449 That is an amazing document. Just shows the extent that the Chinese Government lies to its people and how it strong arms foreign governments... Remind me again why Harper thinks selling Canada to the Chinese is a good idea. That is an amazing document. Just shows the extent that the Chinese Government lies to its people and how it strong arms foreign governments…
Remind me again why Harper thinks selling Canada to the Chinese is a good idea.

]]> By: aeon http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627448 aeon Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:39:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627448 We had exactly the same experience. We had what would have been an awesome view of the mountains from our apartment... Saw them once in the whole year. We were there during another peak in pollution. The world media was reporting record levels of PM10s and 2.5s for Beijing, Nothing on the local news whatsoever. I had such awful sinusitis from it that I was actually sneezing up green and bloody chunks as big as the ends of my fingers for weeks after. And yes, it was gross. But the the relief... :-) We had exactly the same experience. We had what would have been an awesome view of the mountains from our apartment… Saw them once in the whole year.
We were there during another peak in pollution. The world media was reporting record levels of PM10s and 2.5s for Beijing, Nothing on the local news whatsoever. I had such awful sinusitis from it that I was actually sneezing up green and bloody chunks as big as the ends of my fingers for weeks after. And yes, it was gross. But the the relief… :-)

]]> By: L_Mariachi http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627445 L_Mariachi Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:35:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627445 I see. Rob’s numbers for the U.S. cities are on the low side though; today’s highs were NYC 45, Pittsburgh 40, LA 55-60 (they break it down with a lot of granularity there,) and Phoenix 90. Right now it’s getting towards midnight and Phoenix is just below 50. Still not a patch on 800, but a slightly less vast gap. I see. Rob’s numbers for the U.S. cities are on the low side though; today’s highs were NYC 45, Pittsburgh 40, LA 55-60 (they break it down with a lot of granularity there,) and Phoenix 90. Right now it’s getting towards midnight and Phoenix is just below 50. Still not a patch on 800, but a slightly less vast gap.

]]> By: spacedmonkey http://boingboing.net/2013/01/13/beijing-air-like-an-airport.html#comment-1627444 spacedmonkey Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=205514#comment-1627444 I was there in the summer, and the air wasn't this bad, but the pollution would stick to the sweat on my skin and make me break out in a rash. I was there in the summer, and the air wasn’t this bad, but the pollution would stick to the sweat on my skin and make me break out in a rash.

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