Comments on: Casino panopticon: a look at the CCTV room in the Vegas Aria

By: Antinous / Moderator

Antinous / Moderator — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:46:00 +0000

Driving from Palm Springs through Amboy and Kelso to Las Vegas was about a hundred times more entertaining than being there.

By: UncaScrooge

UncaScrooge — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:54:00 +0000

Good idea. Leaving Las Vegas is your best entertainment value.

By: L_Mariachi

L_Mariachi — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:23:00 +0000

It doesn’t matter if the dealer knows your cards. In blackjack, the dealer’s actions are programmed according to the house rules, which everyone is privy to; the dealer has no agency. In poker, the dealer is not a player. I don’t know from Pai Gow but I’m sure it’s similar. Craps and roulette do not involve privileged information. Keno and slots (the biggest profit center by far) don’t even involve a dealer.

Casinos aren’t going to risk their cash on the skill/honesty/goodwill of their dealers so they remove that factor from the equation. You and the other commenters who have called out casinos’ overly broad definition of “cheating” as bullshit are correct though.

By: Mike Perkowitz

Mike Perkowitz — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:29:00 +0000

Not cheap, but last time I was in vegas, I rented a decent fast little convertible and drove out to the Dam and the Valley of Fire. I had a terrific time.

By: itsgene

itsgene — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:53:00 +0000

This throwaway phrase really struck me, and I found it amazing that it went without comment in the article. Your opponent knows at all times what cards you hold, and no one seems to think this is cheating in any way. But using your brain to determine the best method of play? No way! That’s cheating!
The reality is that a casino is not gambling at all – it is not about odds, because with a revelation like this it is clear that odds don’t come into it. It’s basically a money vaccuum where the house calculates exactly much to let you appear to win in order to keep you there, being cleaned out.

By: UncaScrooge

UncaScrooge — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:49:00 +0000

That’s a lot of cameras. But if you drive down the road to Henderson and make a stop in their Wal-Mart, you’ll see the real panopticon. Their ceiling looks like it’s broken out in virulent black blisters. I wish that I were joking.

I hate Vegas, but I have family that loves it. Here’s my hard won advice to Vegas visitors that don’t enjoy gambling:

Vegas is the Amsterdam of nicotine. If you have trouble with cigarette smoke, stay away from the older casinos downtown and their painfully dated HVAC systems.

There used to be two cool things to do in Vegas, but they closed the Liberace Museum. What’s left is the Atomic Testing Museum, a museum so spectacular that you might consider going to Vegas just to walk through its doors. Unbelievable!

If you want to get Vegas-style drunk, I hope you like beer. Everything else is overpriced or weak tea. If you’re like me, you’ll hear the music of drunken laughter everywhere while remaining painfully sober.

Finally, if you think you’ll find something fun to do while your friends and family gamble, I’d recommend catching a flight to Manhattan: It’s cheaper in the long run.

By: Henry Pootel

Henry Pootel — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:23:00 +0000

Off the top of my head, I’d say you’re looking at a Boeski, a Jim Brown, a Miss Daisy, two Jethros and a Leon Spinks, not to mention the biggest Ella Fitzgerald ever.

By: Navin_Johnson

Navin_Johnson — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:49:00 +0000

There are lawsuits regarding casino representatives dogging compulsive gamblers by calling them all the time with offers of huge lines of credit, rooms, huge perks etc. Even as the gamblers are at least trying to stay away.

Last story is a good one:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/466/transcript

By: Navin_Johnson

Navin_Johnson — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:41:00 +0000

Yeah, even “advantage” sounds like kind of slimy coded language. You’re a “mark” to them unless you have the (completely legitimate) skills to play on a more equal level with the house, in which case they consider you to be a con artist, unless of course you’re on their side running the con.

By: Madeline Ashby

Madeline Ashby — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:55:00 +0000

For those of you who are curious about how the casino decides who’s an advantage player and how to treat them, take a look at this Atlantic piece by Mark Bowden: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/04/the-man-who-broke-atlantic-city/308900/

Fair or not, when casinos try to eliminate advantage players, this is what they’re trying to avoid.

By: Madeline Ashby

Madeline Ashby — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:49:00 +0000

It’s real. My dad sells the systems. I’m not sure if he’s ever worked with the Aria, but trust me — that’s a very real number.

By: Ray Perkins

Ray Perkins — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:17:00 +0000

Given casino’s sleazy tactics, is the “1100 cameras” a real number, or just thrown out there to scare off any would-be cheaters?

By: Marios P.

Marios P. — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:57:00 +0000

I suppose camera integrated glasses or project google glass would be also illegal in casinos around the world.

By: GyroMagician

GyroMagician — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:53:00 +0000

“Whiting’s excited at the prospects of OCR”

I read this as an entirely different, more advanced (and terrifying) form of character recognition!

By: NoneL

NoneL — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:00:00 +0000

“you must be this stupid to enter”
Good one.

By: 10xor01

10xor01 — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:06:00 +0000

You don’t even need to have the skills to get bounced. They just need to think that you do. Trust me.

By: Joel Phillips

Joel Phillips — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 04:23:00 +0000

“Not in my house: how Vegas casinos wage a war on cheating”

“Taft’s devices would be illegal today, under Nevada’s strict anti-cheating laws”

By: fuzzyfuzzyfungus

fuzzyfuzzyfungus — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 03:03:00 +0000

They certainly aren’t common enough to be casino bread-and-butter; but there is a rather curious population of problem gamblers who bolster the ‘where is your free will now, huh, huh?’ position:

Some patients taking dopamine agonists(Pramipexole, Ropinirole) for Parkinson’s disease develop serious compulsive behaviors, including compulsive gambling and/or hypersexuality, which tend to stop if they cease using the drug.

As with most matters neurological, the details are murky and poorly understood; but the fact that such behavior can be induced(and without the use of a broad-spectrum disinhibiting agent, like booze, or some upper that disposes the user to euphoric stupidity) is disconcerting.

By: agilecyborg

agilecyborg — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:47:00 +0000

I refuse to be a pawn in the casino game. On one hand I understand the logic of big bucks managing risk and liability with incessant precision. However, on the other hand I understand the logic that underpins my pride and its unwillingness to have my every movement and gesture analyzed by a lifeless bevy of electronics. I’m tired of dehumanization through tech. So, casinos, fuck yourselves- you’ll never see a single Agile dollar ever.

By: Boundegar

Boundegar — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:35:00 +0000

You would think the target market is the ignorant, but I don’t think so. It’s the addicted. Some people just don’t seem to have the gene or the kink or whatever it is. I don’t, and Rindan above doesn’t. I can walk in, lose a few dollars, shrug and leave. And the casinos are happy to see me leave, because I’m not profitable.

What’s profitable is the people who just can’t stop, even though they’re losing the paycheck for the week and the month and the mortgage payment and the grocery money. They will keep coming back when they’re $100,000 in the hole, and the casinos work hard to keep bringing them back.

So no, I don’t buy the argument about gambling being voluntary.

By: James Agenbroad

James Agenbroad — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:05:00 +0000

Well in this story they DON’T call card counting cheating, they use the term “advantage players.” And there certainly ARE people who try to cheat, say moving their bets on the roulette table, etc.

By: Goodfella

Goodfella — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:19:00 +0000

There’s one thing I wish to do is visit the money vault in a casino. Maybe that comes from watching those Oceans movies, I don’t know.

By: ChuckTV

ChuckTV — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 23:50:00 +0000

I agree. Just because they say it’s “cheating” doesn’t mean we have to. To say someone is cheating just because they play better than you (or better than you would prefer) is simply childish.

By: Rindan

Rindan — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 23:44:00 +0000

I don’t think casinos ever pretend to be fair. It isn’t like any Joe from the street can twist the probability in their favor. It takes dedication and a real understanding of what you are doing, not to mention an excellent memory. Anyone who has gone through that knows the score. No one ever develops the skill to count cards, walks into a casino to count cards, and is shocked when they get tossed. It isn’t like they toss out any random Joe because they won a few big hands.

Personally, I find casinos boring as hell. I don’t have a single gambling gene in my body. That said, I don’t begrudge them tossing people that can beat the rigged games. It is life. Don’t like it? Don’t go to a casino. That is what I do…

By: SamSam

SamSam — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:43:00 +0000

I just find it bizzarre that counting cards is considered “cheating” to casinos. It’s nothing more than actually using the known information in the game. To consider it cheating is akin to calling out the chess player who “unfairly” looks at the whole chess board, thus knowing where all his opponent’s pieces are.

If casinos want to limit the usefulness of counting, simply use more and more decks. Counting’s no good when the dealer is shuffling 25 decks together, and then you don’t need to kick out players simply for trying to win the game.

By: johnnychen

johnnychen — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:03:00 +0000

If you are fast enough you can cheat the best of them! Nothing is impossible because no one is perfect.

By: Cowicide

Cowicide — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:36:00 +0000

surveillance operators can read cards

Sounds like a good pal to have speaking into your ear.

By: Marc Mielke

Marc Mielke — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:17:00 +0000

Yeah, if you can hack into the CCTV feed there are better things to do than cheat at gambling.

By: fuzzyfuzzyfungus

fuzzyfuzzyfungus — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:09:00 +0000

Another view of the control room display screens.

By: fuzzyfuzzyfungus

fuzzyfuzzyfungus — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:05:00 +0000

I suspect that the cheater would still stand out on statistical grounds(even if the goon squad couldn’t figure out how they were managing it); but I’d also imagine that being the inside man for such an operation would be an excellent way to learn firsthand if any of the stories about the seedier and more…uninhibited…entities of Vegas are true.