Comments on: Illustrated portraits of woman astronauts http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 02:15:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: abstract_reg http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1645257 abstract_reg Mon, 04 Feb 2013 05:00:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1645257  Perhaps there can be an argument that "female astronaut" is not inherently dehumanizing in the way the word "females" in general is. Astronaut implies humanity, unless we are conferring the title on Albert 1 and Albert 2.  Perhaps there can be an argument that “female astronaut” is not inherently dehumanizing in the way the word “females” in general is. Astronaut implies humanity, unless we are conferring the title on Albert 1 and Albert 2.

]]> By: gloriana232 http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1645172 gloriana232 Sun, 03 Feb 2013 23:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1645172 Woman plumber: A plumber of women.  But yes, taken. The objection should be stylistic, not grammatical. Woman plumber: A plumber of women. 

But yes, taken. The objection should be stylistic, not grammatical.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1645161 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 03 Feb 2013 23:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1645161 <b>wom·an</b> <i>noun, plural wom·en, verb, adjective</i> adjective 13. of women; womanly. 14. female: a woman plumber. wom·an
noun, plural wom·en, verb, adjective
adjective
13. of women; womanly.
14. female: a woman plumber.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1645149 Antinous / Moderator Sun, 03 Feb 2013 22:24:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1645149 <i>Nauta</i> is one of only three first declension masculine nouns which end in 'a', usually a feminine ending. Make of that what you will. Nauta is one of only three first declension masculine nouns which end in ‘a’, usually a feminine ending. Make of that what you will.

]]> By: gloriana232 http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1645145 gloriana232 Sun, 03 Feb 2013 22:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1645145 I largely use "female" when saying "woman" or "girl" is not useful, or when both women and girls are involved. And I am female. I think it's useful BECAUSE it's clinical. The flipside of "woman" is that yes, it does specifically refer to a human, but it's also a word that carries substantial culture baggage -- the idea of age, maturity, sophistication, and that problematic idea of "womanliness." I also dislike "girls" when applied to women older than teenaged, because I find it infantilizing and often condescending (and being repulsive, cutesy slang for one's breasts for people who can't say "breasts").  It also reminds me of stupid terms like "woman driver" or "woman doctor." Not to mention the grammatical point made above. "Woman" is a noun. I largely use “female” when saying “woman” or “girl” is not useful, or when both women and girls are involved. And I am female.

I think it’s useful BECAUSE it’s clinical. The flipside of “woman” is that yes, it does specifically refer to a human, but it’s also a word that carries substantial culture baggage — the idea of age, maturity, sophistication, and that problematic idea of “womanliness.” I also dislike “girls” when applied to women older than teenaged, because I find it infantilizing and often condescending (and being repulsive, cutesy slang for one’s breasts for people who can’t say “breasts”). 

It also reminds me of stupid terms like “woman driver” or “woman doctor.”

Not to mention the grammatical point made above. “Woman” is a noun.

]]> By: abstract_reg http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644935 abstract_reg Sun, 03 Feb 2013 16:37:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644935 Another alternative would be to say astro-women or something, but then we are just gendering occupations which is probably worse. Another alternative would be to say astro-women or something, but then we are just gendering occupations which is probably worse.

]]> By: Linsey Young http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644853 Linsey Young Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644853 It probably would not have been. It probably would not have been.

]]> By: siloxane http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644836 siloxane Sun, 03 Feb 2013 08:57:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644836 He didn't leave out Lisa Nowak; he's doing the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_astronauts" rel="nofollow">astronauts</a> in order and is only on number 28. Nowak was the 41st woman in space. He didn’t leave out Lisa Nowak; he’s doing the astronauts in order and is only on number 28. Nowak was the 41st woman in space.

]]> By: ocker3 http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644745 ocker3 Sun, 03 Feb 2013 02:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644745  She did make it to space  She did make it to space

]]> By: Sekino http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644695 Sekino Sat, 02 Feb 2013 22:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644695 No point arguing with me about it: I'm just repeating what the artist stated. He specifically says he made the series as 'women who've been in space' and he lists them in order (1st in space, 2nd in space, etc...). Personally, I would have included McAuliffe nonetheless, but it's his list and his definition. No point arguing with me about it: I’m just repeating what the artist stated. He specifically says he made the series as ‘women who’ve been in space’ and he lists them in order (1st in space, 2nd in space, etc…). Personally, I would have included McAuliffe nonetheless, but it’s his list and his definition.

]]> By: Eark_the_Bunny http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644692 Eark_the_Bunny Sat, 02 Feb 2013 22:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644692 An ASTRONAUT is defined as: "A person trained to pilot, navigate, or otherwise participate as a crew member of a spacecraft." By this definition Sharon Christa McAuliffe certainly qualifies as an Astronaut even if her spacecraft never reached space. An ASTRONAUT is defined as: “A person trained to pilot, navigate, or otherwise participate as a crew member of a spacecraft.” By this definition Sharon Christa McAuliffe certainly qualifies as an Astronaut even if her spacecraft never reached space.

]]> By: Mark Duanburge http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644691 Mark Duanburge Sat, 02 Feb 2013 22:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644691 The Guardian styleguide suggests: woman, women are nouns, not adjectives, so say female president, female MPs etc rather than "woman president", "women MPs" http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/w The Guardian styleguide suggests:
woman, women are nouns, not adjectives, so say female president, female MPs etc rather than “woman president”, “women MPs”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/w

]]> By: Steve Taylor http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644682 Steve Taylor Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644682  It's a term our species often uses for artworks we appreciate. So are you thinking the term is sexist in this context and wouldn't have been used if the portraits were of men? I pretty much disagree.  It’s a term our species often uses for artworks we appreciate.

So are you thinking the term is sexist in this context and wouldn’t have been used if the portraits were of men? I pretty much disagree.

]]> By: Scratcheee http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644677 Scratcheee Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:43:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644677 Interesting decision to leave out Lisa Nowak. Interesting decision to leave out Lisa Nowak.

]]> By: E T http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644675 E T Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:30:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644675 Why do illustrations of  these particular astronauts  have to be described as "beautiful"? Why do illustrations of  these particular astronauts  have to be described as “beautiful”?

]]> By: s2redux http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644662 s2redux Sat, 02 Feb 2013 20:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644662 <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Two-Sides-Moon-Story-Space/dp/0312308663" rel="nofollow">Two Sides of the Moon</a> might be interesting for both you and the kiddo. Leonov does a good job describing the early Soviet program(s). Two Sides of the Moon might be interesting for both you and the kiddo. Leonov does a good job describing the early Soviet program(s).

]]> By: Giselle Rosman http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644660 Giselle Rosman Sat, 02 Feb 2013 20:42:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644660 "Here’s the thing: “woman” implies both biology and humanity. To take it a little further, “lady” implies biology, humanity, and, to an extent, behavior or social standing. “Girl” implies biology, humanity, and age. “Female” reduces down to purely biology, removing the linguistic shorthand that clarifies that we’re talking about a human being here. And while it seems like a nitpicky little thing to focus on in the larger arena of feminism, we all know that words are important. When someone chooses to refer to women as “females,” they’re making a choice, consciously or not, to dehumanize and demean, and it’s such a specific verbal tic that I wonder if it’s ever truly coincidental." - ref http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/21/female-is-an-adjective-you-got-your-grammar-in-my-feminism/  I've also wondered this previously, but as quoted above, female doesn't denote adult or human specifically. I look forward to the day it's largely irrelevant. “Here’s the thing: “woman” implies both biology and humanity. To take it a little further, “lady” implies biology, humanity, and, to an extent, behavior or social standing. “Girl” implies biology, humanity, and age. “Female” reduces down to purely biology, removing the linguistic shorthand that clarifies that we’re talking about a human being here. And while it seems like a nitpicky little thing to focus on in the larger arena of feminism, we all know that words are important. When someone chooses to refer to women as “females,” they’re making a choice, consciously or not, to dehumanize and demean, and it’s such a specific verbal tic that I wonder if it’s ever truly coincidental.” – ref http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/21/female-is-an-adjective-you-got-your-grammar-in-my-feminism/ 

I’ve also wondered this previously, but as quoted above, female doesn’t denote adult or human specifically. I look forward to the day it’s largely irrelevant.

]]> By: allium http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644656 allium Sat, 02 Feb 2013 20:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644656  Damn the rules, she counts.  Damn the rules, she counts.

]]> By: allium http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644655 allium Sat, 02 Feb 2013 20:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644655 Tereshkova's flight was intended as propaganda, but that was par for the course at the time. The superiors of Sergei Korolev (the "Chief Designer" of the Soviet space program) insisted on a string of "firsts in space" (first woman in space, first space rendezvous, first three-person craft, first spacewalk, etc.), and Korolev produced them (some say at the expense of the long-term goal of landing humans on the moon). After her flight, she, like John Glenn and Yuri Gagarin, was not allowed to fly in space lest a hero be lost - she was also apparently pushed into a less-then-ideal marriage with fellow cosmonaut Andriyan Nikolayev by the Soviet government. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_programme#Cancelled" rel="nofollow">Voshkod 5</a> was a two-woman mission proposed for the mid-1960s, but it was cancelled along with the entire Voshkod program in favor of the all-new Soyuz. This was probably for the best, as a crude metaphor for a Voshkod would be a Smart Car (the earlier one-person Vostok) having its seats ripped out and replaced with bolted-down folding chairs, and then being advertised as "able to seat a family of four". Since the Soviet manned space program was seen as a prestige item and was deeply intertwined with the military, funding was maintained pretty well even as the economy stagnated in the 70's and 80's - only after the fall of the Soviet Union did it really drop off. As for NASA, they claimed they were more concerned about "results" than space spectaculars, so <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_13" rel="nofollow">proposals for women in space</a> were never officially considered until the eighth group of astronauts was selected in 1978 - perhaps not so coincidentally, Svetlana Savitskaya began cosmonaut training in 1980. Apparently the mindset of "knights in space" just wouldn't allow for it before then. :( Some good English-language books about the Soviet manned program would be <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Korolev-Masterminded-Soviet-Drive-America/dp/0471327212/" rel="nofollow"> <i>Korolev: How One Man Masterminded the Soviet Drive to Beat America to the Moon </i> </a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Sputnik-Soviet-Space-Challenge-Siddiqi/dp/081302627X/" rel="nofollow"> <i>Sputnik and the Soviet Space Challenge</i> </a>, and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Soviet-Space-Race-Apollo/dp/0813026288/" rel="nofollow"> <i>The Soviet Space Race with Apollo</i> </a>; they all include lots of information that only came out in the 1990s. Tereshkova’s flight was intended as propaganda, but that was par for the course at the time. The superiors of Sergei Korolev (the “Chief Designer” of the Soviet space program) insisted on a string of “firsts in space” (first woman in space, first space rendezvous, first three-person craft, first spacewalk, etc.), and Korolev produced them (some say at the expense of the long-term goal of landing humans on the moon). After her flight, she, like John Glenn and Yuri Gagarin, was not allowed to fly in space lest a hero be lost – she was also apparently pushed into a less-then-ideal marriage with fellow cosmonaut Andriyan Nikolayev by the Soviet government. Voshkod 5 was a two-woman mission proposed for the mid-1960s, but it was cancelled along with the entire Voshkod program in favor of the all-new Soyuz. This was probably for the best, as a crude metaphor for a Voshkod
would be a Smart Car (the earlier one-person Vostok) having its seats ripped out and replaced with bolted-down folding chairs, and then being advertised as “able to seat a family of four”.

Since the Soviet manned space program was seen as a prestige item and was deeply intertwined with the military, funding was maintained pretty well even as the economy stagnated in the 70′s and 80′s – only after the fall of the Soviet Union did it really drop off.

As for NASA, they claimed they were more concerned about “results” than space spectaculars, so proposals for women in space were never officially considered until the eighth group of astronauts was selected in 1978 – perhaps not so coincidentally, Svetlana Savitskaya began cosmonaut training in 1980. Apparently the mindset of “knights in space” just wouldn’t allow for it before then. :(

Some good English-language books about the Soviet manned program would be  Korolev: How One Man Masterminded the Soviet Drive to Beat America to the Moon , Sputnik and the Soviet Space Challenge , and The Soviet Space Race with Apollo ; they all include lots of information that only came out in the 1990s.

]]> By: Sekino http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644641 Sekino Sat, 02 Feb 2013 19:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644641 He said somewhere in the Flickr comments that he was a bit conflicted about including her in that set because she tragically never made it to space. I guess it's a standalone homage piece. He said somewhere in the Flickr comments that he was a bit conflicted about including her in that set because she tragically never made it to space. I guess it’s a standalone homage piece.

]]> By: Daneel http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644595 Daneel Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644595 So why is the McAuliffe one totally different from all the others? So why is the McAuliffe one totally different from all the others?

]]> By: Sekino http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644591 Sekino Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:06:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644591 These are wonderful. I love the way he handles colours and how lively and full of personality each portrait is. Must check out more of his work! These are wonderful. I love the way he handles colours and how lively and full of personality each portrait is. Must check out more of his work!

]]> By: mindysan33 http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644582 mindysan33 Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644582 These are very cool. It's kind of interesting to see how the Soviets were ahead of the curve, but women's participation seems to drop off a bit compared the American women later on.  I wonder if that had to do with the economic problems of the 70s/80s, and maybe there was just a generally drop off in Soviet space missions? I'm not sure if that's true, but it seems like it would have been? Anyone know any books on the cold war space race from the Soviet POV? Also, I didn't realize that Mae Jemison had a guest role in "The Next Generation"!  We are rewatching the series now with our kiddo and I'll have to point that out when we get there (we're in the middle of the 4th season...).   These are very cool. It’s kind of interesting to see how the Soviets were ahead of the curve, but women’s participation seems to drop off a bit compared the American women later on.  I wonder if that had to do with the economic problems of the 70s/80s, and maybe there was just a generally drop off in Soviet space missions? I’m not sure if that’s true, but it seems like it would have been? Anyone know any books on the cold war space race from the Soviet POV?

Also, I didn’t realize that Mae Jemison had a guest role in “The Next Generation”!  We are rewatching the series now with our kiddo and I’ll have to point that out when we get there (we’re in the middle of the 4th season…).  

]]> By: TrevorSweet http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644578 TrevorSweet Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644578 I'm never comfortable with "woman" as an adjective, imagine writing "man astronauts", why don't we use "female"? Whilst I'm moaning I'll also complain that many of these lovely portraits are cosmonauts ;-) I’m never comfortable with “woman” as an adjective, imagine writing “man astronauts”, why don’t we use “female”?

Whilst I’m moaning I’ll also complain that many of these lovely portraits are cosmonauts ;-)

]]> By: Robert Holmén http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644571 Robert Holmén Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:21:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644571 I had to look up "barmy". "Full of barm" it said. I had to look up “barmy”.

“Full of barm” it said.

]]> By: Syn - http://boingboing.net/2013/02/02/illustrated-portraits-of-woman.html#comment-1644561 Syn - Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=210318#comment-1644561 these are absolutely fantastic. Thanks for sharing.  these are absolutely fantastic. Thanks for sharing. 

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