In my opinion, that’s why the ex-boyfriend or ex-husband murder-suicide is the signature crime of the Great Recession: statistically speaking, a guy who loses his livelihood has about six months before his wife or girlfriend leaves him for a more successful guy. He feels that he was promised “for better and for worse, for richer and for poorer” and, as a man, he feels like he’s someone who’s entitled to get what he was promised whether or not anybody else does. So when he feels he has no choice left but suicide, he’s also got enough anger to take it out on at least one of the people who betrayed him. Relative privilege is the reason we don’t see nearly as many reversed-gender murder-suicides over the fact that men are statistically likely to leave their wives after a cancer scare; as a person of lower privilege, she isn’t conditioned to get quite that surprised, to feel quite so righteously angry, when she gets betrayed.

The point is, in the past when numbers were small, most people had a purpose and were necessary to the survival of everyone. Quite simply, most people aren’t necessary, or important, and the realisation of those who find they are just deluding themselves can drive them insane. I don’t know why you think this is a gender issue, because it has nothing to do with gender. Women are just as capable of committing horrific acts against their own family, and there are just as many examples.

The disease is trying to cope with mortality and insignificance by lying to yourself. The cure is accepting that you are not important to the world, but that you are important to the small group of people who’s lives you affect around you, and doing you best to make their lives better. 

This guy is a perfect example of getting it the wrong way round, trying to be important to the world to satisfy his own false sense of self-worth, and ignoring the importance of his own family until his delusions finally caught up with him.

I see this disease every day, mostly in the form of this puerile celebrity culture. As wonderful as the internet is, it has also greatly perpetuate this idea that everyone can be famous. Just look at the narcissistic nature of Facebook, where so many people use it just to show how important and interesting they think they are. How can you not know what this disease is? It’s everywhere you frigging look!

I’m sorry you lost your friend. And I’ve seen the jokes, too. Ugh. Sick.

While I’m ranting to the anonymous folks of Boing Boing. You know what else enrages me. Internet trolls making sick dead lawyer jokes about Mark’s death. The guy did pro bono legal work for people who couldn’t afford it, and helped overturn a conviction of a guy unjustly imprisoned for 10 yrs. And the bile these people post just made me feel disgust for our species even more.

Except that in my experience the monsters ARE usually in plain sight, except that they don’t show their monsterness except to the person they are abusing.

This is actually far closer to what I was trying to say, so thank you.

From a social perspective, abusers also tend to seek out friends/peers who support and justify their abuse, because they are also of a similar mindset (like racists or homophobes or MRA’s who really relish the power over trip.

This isn’t my experience at all, and I think this assumption could be dangerous.  My abusive ex was a pretty normal guy in all respects, and his friends were all pretty normal. He didn’t smack me around. He was manipulative and controlling, but even I didn’t notice until nearly 2 years into the relationship. Most of his abuse was sexual, if it matters.

His (OUR) friends really had no idea. He was really quite good at hiding and keeping up a normal social life with normal people, some of whom I still talk to. I had to sit down a mutual friend once and explain why I did not want to see my ex at all, for any reason, and the friend was in complete shock.

I guess, in my over share, what I mean to say is:  Monsters aren’t always so obvious to see from the outside looking in.

Not sure what that proves, Antinous, except about the commenter.

Well, we were in the countryside when my father tried to shoot me, so… point to you.

And even though I have lead a decent ‘normal’ life, haven’t hurt anybody (other than the occasional adolescent fist fight), and would be considered ‘safe’ by most definitions, I still get your point. Being a parent to a beautiful young girl now, I am afraid for the future she faces. Why? Because I remember what it was like being 15 with raging hormones, and want to f*ck anything that moved for reasons I didn’t even understand, because I have felt really hostile/aggressive feelings, that had I had a little less impulse control, could have turned ugly. And without getting into the whole 2nd amendment thing, we in the US live in a country of 300+ million guns, with many people willing to use them too quickly and for the wrong reasons.

We are animals. I mean it literally, as I always find it interesting when people talk about humanity as if we are apart from the animal kingdom Yes, we are capable of great things, but we are still so very primitive, superstitious, violent and selfish more than we’d like to admit, and I think men have demonstrated much more than their share of those tendencies.

Much of the focus on perpetrators has focussed on the abuser’s emotions, like the abusive behaviour is a deep rooted problem with their self esteem. The real truth is that the abuser has a problem with their THINKING and a profound sense of entitlement, with a bottomless well of justifications for WHY they abuse, as in “the victim made me do it because (insert made up reason here)”. 

From a social perspective, abusers also tend to seek out friends/peers who support and justify their abuse, because they are also of a similar mindset (like racists or homophobes or MRA’s who really relish the power over trip.

And is the rest of the religious world any less homophobic and misogynistic than we are? I don’t really think so.

That said, I think people ought to demand more of their religious leaders to spread more love and acceptance. And everyone should demand more of our politicians, our media, our educational institutions, to spread more understanding and drive out the ignorance that leads people to hide behind religion.

If everyone could be a little less hateful and ignorant it would be easier to spot the people who really are dangerous.

Sigh.

This is what we call privilege. As someone who was in an abusive relationship for 2 years with someone no one (and I mean no one) believed could be so awful to another human being he claimed to love, it must be nice.

Monsters aren’t always in plain sight, you know.

I know people who aren’t even particularly crazy or angry that believe some of this crap! It’s frightening. Just turn on Fox News — the fear mongering is real.

So, no, I don’t think this article is trying to imply that all conspiracy nuts are suicidal and potential murderers, but rather that this outcome isn’t particularly surprising. Or at least, it isn’t to me.

Thank you (truly!).

That said, your claims are really just … musings and considerations, which isn’t a bad thing, but don’t treat them as claims, and then it won’t be as easy to call you a hypocrite. :D And not every musing is a claim, or needs to be. I don’t think Karen was trying to *claim* anything, at least not specifically.

I think religion has some to do with it, but not all — religion is everywhere, and in every society, so is it the cause, or just another symptom, or both?

Believe it or not, this works out *worse* for the women.

Thanks for pointing it out.

I agree American society is quite patriarchal. And I’d say the reason for that has to do with America’s roots in religious conservatism. People are naturally afraid of deviation from the status quo, or at least entrenched incumbencies are. And America’s status quo started out with patriarchal values. But I’m rambling now, and obviously have gotten way out of my depth. That was quick.

Anyway, I probably would have been better off not posting anything in the first place.

I’m not thinking very well on this, and I don’t have research available at the moment to cite my own claims, which I know already makes me a hypocrite.

Which it often does.

Do you have a citation for that? Interesting that you accused Karen of making claims, when she was clearly just thinking and asking questions, and yet your claim is pretty empty, with no proof. (And is this even something you can necessarily prove? Can you really fully separate mental illness from culture and society?)

And when you say something like “men might feel entitled” it makes it pretty clear that you find that point pretty inconsequential, while I think it’s very important.

I’d say it’s a pretty complicated subject, and you’re both right, or at least not wrong, but your total dismissal of Karen’s questions and thoughts is interesting but not surprising.

And:

Men are promised a lot of unrealistic things by American society,

And do you agree that society, including American society, is patriarchal? 

Sure, of course society puts a lot of pressure on men — but why do you suppose that is?

Because I really just want to say fuck you, Philip Marshall. Fuck you. Burn in hell.

Let me be clear, I’m not disputing that men often have unfounded feelings of entitlement, nor am I saying that women are just as bad.

I’m simply offering my thinking on possibly why this kind of entitlement happens in many cases.

I also included a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the claim that mental illness has nothing to do with violence in cases like these. Which it often does