Rob Beschizza at 4:21 am Mon, Feb 4, 2013
— FEATURED —
The Man Who Laughs: grotesque Victor Hugo potboiler was the basis for The Joker
Eurovision 2013: An American in London
The Twelve-Fingered Boy - mesmerizing YA horror novel
ADVERTISE AT BOING BOING!
— COMICS —
Tom the Dancing Bug
TOM THE DANCING BUG: The Truth Behind the Nixonian Presidency of Obama
Brain Rot: Hip Hop Family Tree, Compton, Lonzo Williams and the Wreckin' Cru
Real Stuff: Bad Trip
— GUATEMALA SPECIAL SERIES —
NYT Editorial Board: "Justice Interrupted in Guatemala"
Guatemala's Genocide on Trial: Kate Doyle
Guatemala: After high court collapses genocide case, trial may have to restart
— RECENTLY —
Black Code: how spies, cops and crims are making cyberspace unfit for human habitation
We Can Fix it! - a graphic novel time travel memoir
The technology that links taxonomy and Star Trek
Odd Duck: great picture book about eccentricity and ducks
Scatter, Adapt, and Remember: How Humans Will Survive a Mass Extinction
Illustrator William Stout's Legends of the Blues - exclusive excerpt
Hackers prepare for first "national holiday" in their honor
Review: Disunion, the VR guillotine simulator
Mousetronaut: kids' picture book about mouse in space, written by a Shuttle pilot
Review: Pebble e-paper watch
— FOLLOW US —
Boing Boing is on Twitter and Facebook. Subscribe to our RSS feed or daily email.
— POLICIES —
Except where indicated, Boing Boing is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution
— FONTS —
⟿ Follow Rob Beschizza on Twitter.
MORE: eagles • hobbit • oglaf
Eurovision 2013: An American in London
The technology that links taxonomy and Star Trek
I really hope my ex is reading this…that is precisely the question I asked all along, just call an eagle and have him drop the damn ring into the volcano….how hard could that have been!?!?
The aerial combat against the fell beasts and Nazgul would be hard.
The dying would be easy.
Maybe the whole thing could have been made clearer by showing more fell beasts and other creatures flying overhead all the time; there’s a fair amount of hiding from them in the books, but this was one of the missed opportunities of the movies.
Sorry, not buying it. Even if the Fellowship had to schlep the last part of the trek on foot those eagles could have saved, like, at least two movies worth of walking.
Also, obligatory WKUK sketch.
ok, there’s resistance in the air… but there was a lot of resistance on the ground too in the form of Orcs and other baddies… so my thought is that those eagles were able to successfully penetrate the air defenses in order to rescue the hobbits at the end and fly them out of there quickly… that trip could just as easily have been a “drop the ring in the volcano” trip instead of an evacuation trip… no?
Plus, that final battle sequence in LOTR proved that the eagles were more than up to the challenge of said air defenses.
You don’t just need the eagles; you need the chorus of boy sopranos or they can’t fly.
There were no air defenses at the end to penetrate. Ring go poof, Sauron go boom, armies all swallered up – I assume the Nazgul and fell beasties high-tailed it out of there.
There were no air defenses at the end to penetrate.
I can’t recall if the book unfolded this way, but the film clearly showed there were several Nazgul mounts in that final battle which some of the eagles handily disposed of while others flew over to pick up the little Hobbitses.
That scene is pre-ring-go-poof, no?
Doesn’t matter: point is that eagles were willing and able to engage Mordor’s air defenses to help save Middle-Earth. Send in a wing of eagles to fight the Nazgul, then one eagle with a Hobbit (and a couple of escorts for good measure) to drop off the ring.
Same end result for the eagles, except that thousands of other lives are saved on the ground.
Even if the Nazgul were still there, they would have gotten a lot weaker once the ring was destroyed. Just saying.
Peter Jackson makes it look like the Eagles are always ready to swoop in but in the books they’re a lot harder to get a hold of. For instance, in the Hobbit, they just happen to notice all the commotion and swoop in the save the Hobbits, but Jackson makes it looks like Gandalf called them. In the book, Gandalf was getting ready to jump to his fiery death right before he was plucked from the tree.
This whole conversation is complicated because people are confusing the source materials. Tolkien knew what he was doing, and Jackson didn’t convey that very well. :/
Agreed. It seems the problem is the book doesn’t explicitly say why they couldn’t use eagles. All the other options concerning the ring are carefully dismissed in the council chapter, but this one was skipped.
Reasons why a foreign airforce would not be a good choice for a stealth mission concerning a corrupting artifact are easy to invent in a fantasy world. But you do have to invent them, and other people can always interpret the canon differently.
We need someone with a time machine to tell Tolkien to add a few sentences about this, so we can go back to more important things, like whether balrogs have wings.
I believe this is missing a NSFW tag, for the archive on that site alone.
We don’t even have an NSFW tag!
NSFW tags? We don’t need no stinking NSFW tags!
For Oglaf, you probably do. This link is one click away from a comic about cumsprites (no, I’m not going to explain).
And no one told you to click on the rest of the site!
seriously. most of Oglaf isn’t safe for LIFE, let alone WORK.
Exactly. I know the site, heck I’ve read it for years… just not at work.
It sure triggered my company’s website blocker
I’m surprised OGLAF isn’t posted on BoingBoing more often.
After watching The Hobbit© I kept wondering the same… :)
It was already taken by /r/wtf
To be dull for a minute, eagles flying about in the sky over Mordor would have been a simple target for Sauron and the Nazgul most of the time. The strategy of Gandalf and indeed one point of Tolkien’s whole story was that a couple of insignificant bods low down on the social scale would sneak in under the radar while Sauron’s eye was on armies and princes and the sky. After the ring was destroyed the fighter-defence Nazgul flamed out and the fat transport eagles could lumber in.
I’ve thought about this quite a bit as well (very possibly much more than is healthy or warranted) and another reason that has occurred to me is that the Great Eagles are servants of Manwe, and it was made clear that the Powers of Valinor would not help in the conflict of the Ring. It’s very likely Gandalf knew the Eagles would just say “No, you’re on your own on this one…”.
The Eye of Sauron was focused on the battle at the gates, that’s why that whole army had to show up, so the hobbits could sneak into the forges. The Eye also had a powerful effect if focused on a person, “Tolkien writes in The Silmarillion that “the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure” even before his body was lost in the War of the Last Alliance.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauron#Eye_of_Sauron
So, it was all about evading the direct gaze and attention of Sauron, which was probably powerful enough to stop most people in their tracks, or at very least make mostly useless.
“Because the plot was not of the correct consistency that early in the game.”
Man, I love Oglaf.
“No! Show me your other honor!”
“Victory at sea!”
Not “I want to walk!” but “It’s fucking walk o’clock!” That’s why he is the artist.
She, not he.
Oh wow, I had no idea this comic was done by the same person who did Platinum Grit! I loved Platinum Grit!
Still, the other big question I have on LotR is : where are all the other Dwarves? All fighting is almost exclusively left to humans except for 1 Elf, 1 Dwarf and 2 Hobbits.
I know that the Elves were all ‘F* this sh*, I’m going back to Valinor’ but the Dwarves were going nowhere and they had a pretty big interest in Sauron not winning.
They were busy fighting Easterlings in the appendices.
I used to be an adventurer, but then I took a Dwarf’s arrow in the appendix.
I used to be an Arch-Mage, but then I took a dagger to the wrist.
Think it’ll catch on…?
At least they had a token warrior in the fray, which is more than can be said for those lazy-ass Gnomes.
was disappointed that Gandalf didn’t say, “because Eru doesn’t work that way.”
In Mordor, giant eagles callyou.
And as someone else said, why was the Matrix’s virtual reality set in the 1990s where people were aware of computers and hacking? Why not have everyone live in a virtual 14th century?
Or why use humans with advance brain needs? Why not just use cows? VR unending fields to graze upon. What more do you need?
Because that was the farthest back the Matrix could go and create a believable simulation since they would have no concept of a pre-computer era outside of historical records. They say in the movies that they attempted a paradise but humans kept rejecting it. No reason that couldn’t have been a hunter/gatherer paradise but people kept feeling it was “wrong”.
Not that there aren’t bigger plot holes in that movie but I don’t think the era of the simulation is one.
Um, that was because the machines actually needed to have computer-literate humans around to write new code for them to use. It was a more prominent plot point in earlier versions of the script, and the scrapped sequel that’s been floating around on the web is almost entirely focused around it.
OK, then It would only take one tiny electrode inserted into the right spot of the brain to make them endlessly content with that task.
TWKUK addressed this very question – and the response from the shirefolk.
Been saying this for 30 years. Corroboration is much welcome.
Well, in the actual novel they ask the eagles to fly them further but they refuse because it isn’t their problem. Their rescue of Gandalf and the dwarves was repayment of a favour owed, nothing more.
Sure, the eagles are ‘good’, but they routinely had conflict with humans (stealing livestock) and were not necessarily friends – though they had no love for orcs. Gandalf was the point of contact.
“Why didn’t they just get the eagles to carry them” TL;DR version:
1. You are not the boss of eagles.
2. Sauron knows eagles exist + Sauron knows how to make fell beasts = Mordor certainly has air defense.
3. The eagles: proud and mighty beings. The Ring: Infallibly corrupts the proud and the mighty. See the problem?
i agree. i think this whole notion of an eagle “airline” is largely due to how they were portrayed in the movies. yes, the eagles did play very important parts in turning the tide in favor of the good guys in more than one time in tolkien’s books but it was always stressed that they had wills of their own and did not particularly care for the troubles of other beings. In one occasion in the Hobbit, they rescued the protagonists primarily because they wanted to foil the plans of the orcs and not really because of goodwill or a sense of duty.
Okay, okay. I get why we can’t use an eagle.
But what about a catapult?
/e is not your private army.
My mind has been on this quite a lot—I was the Great Eagles specialist for the LOTR & Hobbit films.
We have had a very cool discussion over here that you all might enjoy, about the biology shown in the films, and the “why didn’t they use the eagles….” question comes up in the discussions. http://thorinoakenshield.net/2013/01/04/middle-earths-biology-as-shown-in-the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey/
The ‘proud and majestic’ are just lazy bums with great publicity is all.
The real answer? Because it would have made a sucky narrative.
There was an excellent “Fan Theory” on Reddit about this a while back.