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	<title>Comments on: Buy an atheism bus-ad from the British Humanist&#160;Association</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1656365</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 21:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1656365</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t fuck with Kringle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t fuck with Kringle.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tynam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655852</link>
		<dc:creator>Tynam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655852</guid>
		<description>True, but it makes no difference.  The unreachable &lt;i&gt;cannot&lt;/i&gt; be informed, but it does no harm to try.  The majority can be taught.  And there&#039;s only one sure way to find out who is which...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, but it makes no difference.  The unreachable <i>cannot</i> be informed, but it does no harm to try.  The majority can be taught.  And there&#8217;s only one sure way to find out who is which&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Ollington</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655661</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ollington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655661</guid>
		<description>If people start making discriminatory laws due to a belief in Santa and teaching kids that we were all created by elves in the north pole, and that evolution isn&#039;t true, plus medical progress in some cases should be halted because Rudolph is against it... and all this policy is to be funded by the tax payer, then sure... we&#039;d probably run a Santa doesn&#039;t exist campaign too :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people start making discriminatory laws due to a belief in Santa and teaching kids that we were all created by elves in the north pole, and that evolution isn&#8217;t true, plus medical progress in some cases should be halted because Rudolph is against it&#8230; and all this policy is to be funded by the tax payer, then sure&#8230; we&#8217;d probably run a Santa doesn&#8217;t exist campaign too :-)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: onepieceman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655593</link>
		<dc:creator>onepieceman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655593</guid>
		<description>So we can look forward to a &quot;Santa probably doesn&#039;t exist&quot; campaign leading up to next Christmas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we can look forward to a &#8220;Santa probably doesn&#8217;t exist&#8221; campaign leading up to next Christmas?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Ollington</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655526</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ollington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655526</guid>
		<description>Regarding the &#039;Probably&#039;: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Bus_Campaign#.22Probably.22

It&#039;s also worth a mention that there&#039;s &#039;probably&#039; no flying spaghetti monster, tooth fairy, Santa, etc... etc... but we can&#039;t disprove any of them either since it&#039;s not possible to do so. That doesn&#039;t make them any more likely and so atheists are just as &#039;agnostic atheist&#039; about them, though you wouldn&#039;t expect them to have to say it :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the &#8216;Probably&#8217;: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Bus_Campaign#.22Probably.22</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also worth a mention that there&#8217;s &#8216;probably&#8217; no flying spaghetti monster, tooth fairy, Santa, etc&#8230; etc&#8230; but we can&#8217;t disprove any of them either since it&#8217;s not possible to do so. That doesn&#8217;t make them any more likely and so atheists are just as &#8216;agnostic atheist&#8217; about them, though you wouldn&#8217;t expect them to have to say it :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Ollington</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655523</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ollington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655523</guid>
		<description>What about the campaigns for secularism then? There are religious based laws that affect education, medical science, equality, animal welfare, etc... etc... When there is policy based on what it says in a 2,000 year old book, policy decided on by believers in a particular faith, that affects everyone else of either a different faith or no faith... then such coalitions campaigning against those policies makes sense. Law should be based on reason, not superstition. Hence the coalitions you speak of... if you want separation between church and state then they&#039;re an important part of achieving that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the campaigns for secularism then? There are religious based laws that affect education, medical science, equality, animal welfare, etc&#8230; etc&#8230; When there is policy based on what it says in a 2,000 year old book, policy decided on by believers in a particular faith, that affects everyone else of either a different faith or no faith&#8230; then such coalitions campaigning against those policies makes sense. Law should be based on reason, not superstition. Hence the coalitions you speak of&#8230; if you want separation between church and state then they&#8217;re an important part of achieving that.</p>
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		<title>By: A Viescas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655404</link>
		<dc:creator>A Viescas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655404</guid>
		<description>Except that the bus campaign had nothing to do with what people refer to when they say &quot;New Atheism.&quot; At least not the kind of &quot;New Atheism&quot; that GGP was complaining about. 

(&quot;New Atheism&quot; remains in quotes because it alternatively refers to people who feel some sort of moral obligation to eliminate religion.... and people who dare to voice an atheist opinion in the public sphere. The question is.... which one do YOU think applies?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except that the bus campaign had nothing to do with what people refer to when they say &#8220;New Atheism.&#8221; At least not the kind of &#8220;New Atheism&#8221; that GGP was complaining about. </p>
<p>(&#8220;New Atheism&#8221; remains in quotes because it alternatively refers to people who feel some sort of moral obligation to eliminate religion&#8230;. and people who dare to voice an atheist opinion in the public sphere. The question is&#8230;. which one do YOU think applies?)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A Viescas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655400</link>
		<dc:creator>A Viescas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655400</guid>
		<description>Nothing, as long as you&#039;re not in one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing, as long as you&#8217;re not in one.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SamSam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655324</link>
		<dc:creator>SamSam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655324</guid>
		<description>While I had a typo there (more than/less than) which Disqus won&#039;t let me fix, the number 50% is obviously there because of the word &quot;probably.&quot; The word &quot;probably&quot; means &quot;more likely than not&quot;, i.e. &gt;50% chance.

If you roll a dice, you wouldn&#039;t factually say &quot;I&#039;ve probably rolled a six,&quot; but you could factually say &quot;I&#039;ve probably rolled greater than a one.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I had a typo there (more than/less than) which Disqus won&#8217;t let me fix, the number 50% is obviously there because of the word &#8220;probably.&#8221; The word &#8220;probably&#8221; means &#8220;more likely than not&#8221;, i.e. &gt;50% chance.</p>
<p>If you roll a dice, you wouldn&#8217;t factually say &#8220;I&#8217;ve probably rolled a six,&#8221; but you could factually say &#8220;I&#8217;ve probably rolled greater than a one.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: failquail</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655198</link>
		<dc:creator>failquail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655198</guid>
		<description> [It means &quot;the probability is less than 50% that there is no god.&quot;]
No

Where are you getting this from?

On a scale of &#039;no god&#039; - &#039;uncertain&#039; - &#039;is a god&#039;, or 0% - &#039;0-100&#039;% and 100% (or the inverse), if you reject the absolute certain opinions of 0% and 100%, you&#039;re left with a scale of:
0.0[recurring]1% to 99.9[recurring]9% (or however you&#039;d write down a near infinite scale) for the uncertain option. Ie: pretty much all of the percentage scale.

Where did you get the 50% number from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> [It means "the probability is less than 50% that there is no god."]<br />
No</p>
<p>Where are you getting this from?</p>
<p>On a scale of &#8216;no god&#8217; &#8211; &#8216;uncertain&#8217; &#8211; &#8216;is a god&#8217;, or 0% &#8211; &#8217;0-100&#8242;% and 100% (or the inverse), if you reject the absolute certain opinions of 0% and 100%, you&#8217;re left with a scale of:<br />
0.0[recurring]1% to 99.9[recurring]9% (or however you&#8217;d write down a near infinite scale) for the uncertain option. Ie: pretty much all of the percentage scale.</p>
<p>Where did you get the 50% number from?</p>
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		<title>By: mistercat</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655177</link>
		<dc:creator>mistercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655177</guid>
		<description>The wording is ghastly. For a start, &quot;There is probably no God&quot; seems like a back-down from what should be a much more robust statement. To me, it just feels like they put the &#039;probably&#039; in there entirely because &quot;There is no God&quot; would come across as a little to confrontational... bad for the brand, do you know? But what really makes me clench my teeth is the &quot;Now...&quot;... it makes the whole thing sounds incredibly patronizing. It may as well read &quot;Now run along and play&quot;. Thanks mainly to Dawkins and Hitchens, Atheism has already acquired a reputation for smugness, and this stunt is really not helping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wording is ghastly. For a start, &#8220;There is probably no God&#8221; seems like a back-down from what should be a much more robust statement. To me, it just feels like they put the &#8216;probably&#8217; in there entirely because &#8220;There is no God&#8221; would come across as a little to confrontational&#8230; bad for the brand, do you know? But what really makes me clench my teeth is the &#8220;Now&#8230;&#8221;&#8230; it makes the whole thing sounds incredibly patronizing. It may as well read &#8220;Now run along and play&#8221;. Thanks mainly to Dawkins and Hitchens, Atheism has already acquired a reputation for smugness, and this stunt is really not helping.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655061</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655061</guid>
		<description> Frequentism doesn&#039;t apply here because we have a sample size of at most one and quite possibly zero.  I think &quot;there is probably no god&quot; should be taken to mean &quot;there are good reasons to doubt the existence of god and very few reasons to believe in god&quot;.  However, this is clearly a statement of opinion and not fact.  God might &lt;em&gt;play&lt;/em&gt; dice but that doesn&#039;t mean God &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; dice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Frequentism doesn&#8217;t apply here because we have a sample size of at most one and quite possibly zero.  I think &#8220;there is probably no god&#8221; should be taken to mean &#8220;there are good reasons to doubt the existence of god and very few reasons to believe in god&#8221;.  However, this is clearly a statement of opinion and not fact.  God might <em>play</em> dice but that doesn&#8217;t mean God <em>is</em> dice.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655054</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655054</guid>
		<description> I dunno, when more than 90% of the world&#039;s population believes in anthropomorphic deities of one kind or another it starts to seem like &lt;em&gt;positive&lt;/em&gt; belief in God is a sort of default position.  And, in fact, that&#039;s how it&#039;s been treated for decades -- people who &lt;em&gt;didn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; want to be forced to pray in school or at meetings were the odd ones out.

Given that religious belief is the default I think that &quot;being about the absence&quot; of that default is actually about something -- about a change from the default.  I think this is a good thing.  It makes more room for esoteric belief and opens up previously sacrosanct people and institutions to criticism.  Maybe you find something distasteful about taking the piss out of new agers but I think there&#039;s something distasteful about encouraging people not to have their children vaccinated, so maybe a wash?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> I dunno, when more than 90% of the world&#8217;s population believes in anthropomorphic deities of one kind or another it starts to seem like <em>positive</em> belief in God is a sort of default position.  And, in fact, that&#8217;s how it&#8217;s been treated for decades &#8212; people who <em>didn&#8217;t</em> want to be forced to pray in school or at meetings were the odd ones out.</p>
<p>Given that religious belief is the default I think that &#8220;being about the absence&#8221; of that default is actually about something &#8212; about a change from the default.  I think this is a good thing.  It makes more room for esoteric belief and opens up previously sacrosanct people and institutions to criticism.  Maybe you find something distasteful about taking the piss out of new agers but I think there&#8217;s something distasteful about encouraging people not to have their children vaccinated, so maybe a wash?</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655049</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655049</guid>
		<description> You&#039;re assuming the intent is recruitment and not solidarity.  You may not know this but there are already such things as atheists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> You&#8217;re assuming the intent is recruitment and not solidarity.  You may not know this but there are already such things as atheists.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655046</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655046</guid>
		<description>OK, position on this among &quot;new atheists&quot; is that &quot;atheism&quot; is a statement of belief while &quot;agnosticism&quot; is a statement of knowledge.  Most &quot;new atheists&quot; seem to concede that disproving the existence of God is a logical impossibility so that they can&#039;t be &lt;em&gt;100% sure&lt;/em&gt; that God doesn&#039;t exist.  Thus a lot of &quot;new atheists&quot; style themselves &quot;agnostic atheists&quot; -- they don&#039;t know that God doesn&#039;t exist but they have serious doubts.

In fact, that&#039;s pretty much my position.  I don&#039;t know for sure that there isn&#039;t a God but based on my experiences in this world I do not believe there is one.

Part of the problem is that the term &quot;God&quot; is so nebulous and poorly defined.  I take the statement &quot;God exists&quot; to mean roughly &quot;the universe is a person&quot; and I do not believe this is the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, position on this among &#8220;new atheists&#8221; is that &#8220;atheism&#8221; is a statement of belief while &#8220;agnosticism&#8221; is a statement of knowledge.  Most &#8220;new atheists&#8221; seem to concede that disproving the existence of God is a logical impossibility so that they can&#8217;t be <em>100% sure</em> that God doesn&#8217;t exist.  Thus a lot of &#8220;new atheists&#8221; style themselves &#8220;agnostic atheists&#8221; &#8212; they don&#8217;t know that God doesn&#8217;t exist but they have serious doubts.</p>
<p>In fact, that&#8217;s pretty much my position.  I don&#8217;t know for sure that there isn&#8217;t a God but based on my experiences in this world I do not believe there is one.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is that the term &#8220;God&#8221; is so nebulous and poorly defined.  I take the statement &#8220;God exists&#8221; to mean roughly &#8220;the universe is a person&#8221; and I do not believe this is the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655034</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655034</guid>
		<description>Jesus Christ!  Shut the door!  Were you born in a barn!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus Christ!  Shut the door!  Were you born in a barn!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1655005</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1655005</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s about 30 years out of date.  It&#039;s all &#039;prosperity gospel&#039; now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s about 30 years out of date.  It&#8217;s all &#8216;prosperity gospel&#8217; now.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654992</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654992</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s wrong with a hive mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s wrong with a hive mind?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654922</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654922</guid>
		<description> &quot;the probability is less than 50% that there is no god.&quot;

If the available options are &quot;there is a god&quot; and &quot;there is no god&quot;, and the probability of &quot;there is no god&quot; is less than 50%, that means the probability of &quot;there is a god&quot; is greater than 50%. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what the advert was supposed to imply. :o)

I don&#039;t agree that &quot;it is possible that god does not exist&quot; is equivalent to &quot;there probably is no god&quot;; the former suggests there is a non-zero probability, whilst the latter implies there is a high probability. Using your dice analogy, you wouldn&#039;t say that &quot;it is possible that I&#039;ve rolled a six&quot; is equivalent to &quot;I&#039;ve probably rolled a six&quot;, would you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> &#8221;the probability is less than 50% that there is no god.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the available options are &#8220;there is a god&#8221; and &#8220;there is no god&#8221;, and the probability of &#8220;there is no god&#8221; is less than 50%, that means the probability of &#8220;there is a god&#8221; is greater than 50%. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what the advert was supposed to imply. :o)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree that &#8220;it is possible that god does not exist&#8221; is equivalent to &#8220;there probably is no god&#8221;; the former suggests there is a non-zero probability, whilst the latter implies there is a high probability. Using your dice analogy, you wouldn&#8217;t say that &#8220;it is possible that I&#8217;ve rolled a six&#8221; is equivalent to &#8220;I&#8217;ve probably rolled a six&#8221;, would you?</p>
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		<title>By: Velocirapt42</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654913</link>
		<dc:creator>Velocirapt42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654913</guid>
		<description>Um... I don&#039;t think that people get paid for being atheists (as opposed to physicists or doctors.) Nor is having a profession mutually exclusive with having religious beliefs. I must admit your statement has me befuddled, sir. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um&#8230; I don&#8217;t think that people get paid for being atheists (as opposed to physicists or doctors.) Nor is having a profession mutually exclusive with having religious beliefs. I must admit your statement has me befuddled, sir. </p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654898</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654898</guid>
		<description>A nice thought, but when a simple statement of fact like &quot;there&#039;s probably no god, now stop worrying and enjoy your life&quot; is considered patronizing I figure I probably won&#039;t be able to help myself from doing something theists will consider patronizing.  I suspect &quot;informing&quot; them would count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nice thought, but when a simple statement of fact like &#8220;there&#8217;s probably no god, now stop worrying and enjoy your life&#8221; is considered patronizing I figure I probably won&#8217;t be able to help myself from doing something theists will consider patronizing.  I suspect &#8220;informing&#8221; them would count.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654890</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654890</guid>
		<description>The only problem I see with the wording of the ad is the word &quot;probably&quot;. I didn&#039;t notice the religious ads which prompted this campaign claiming that &quot;Jebus *probably* saves&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only problem I see with the wording of the ad is the word &#8220;probably&#8221;. I didn&#8217;t notice the religious ads which prompted this campaign claiming that &#8220;Jebus *probably* saves&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: SamSam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654804</link>
		<dc:creator>SamSam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654804</guid>
		<description>Though I dislike the ad campaign, your argument doesn&#039;t quite follow here.

&quot;There probably is no god&quot; is absolutely a statement of fact. It means &quot;the probability is less than 50% that there is no god.&quot; Likewise, if I roll a dice in a cup but don&#039;t look at it, I can say the factual statement &quot;it probably isn&#039;t a 6.&quot;

Ignoring the word &quot;probably&quot; which involves a specific percentage, the statement is equivalent to &quot;it is possible that god does not exist,&quot; which in modal logic is denoted as ◊(God does not exist). This statement is true if in any possible universe, god does not exist.

As you can see, this statement is far more likely than &quot;God does not exist&quot;, since the latter always implies the former but not visa versa, and so you could assign it a higher probability of being true. The only way it can be false is if in all universes, god is required to exist (i.e.  □(God exists), or &quot;it is necessary that god exists&quot;).

So for the statement to be false, the Church (or whoever) would need to prove that it is necessary for god to exist in all possible universes, which is a much harder proposition (though one that many religious people would still agree with).

So the third statement is indeed a fully-fledged statement. However, it&#039;s also the one with the lowest burden of proof, so your general point is still valid.

...that said, do English religious ads say &quot;There is a God,&quot; though? If not, then this statement is indeed the only statement of fact being made, so Dawkins may still be required to go before the Modal Logic court and prove that !□(God exists), i.e. that it is not necessary that God exists....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I dislike the ad campaign, your argument doesn&#8217;t quite follow here.</p>
<p>&#8220;There probably is no god&#8221; is absolutely a statement of fact. It means &#8220;the probability is less than 50% that there is no god.&#8221; Likewise, if I roll a dice in a cup but don&#8217;t look at it, I can say the factual statement &#8220;it probably isn&#8217;t a 6.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ignoring the word &#8220;probably&#8221; which involves a specific percentage, the statement is equivalent to &#8220;it is possible that god does not exist,&#8221; which in modal logic is denoted as ◊(God does not exist). This statement is true if in any possible universe, god does not exist.</p>
<p>As you can see, this statement is far more likely than &#8220;God does not exist&#8221;, since the latter always implies the former but not visa versa, and so you could assign it a higher probability of being true. The only way it can be false is if in all universes, god is required to exist (i.e.  □(God exists), or &#8220;it is necessary that god exists&#8221;).</p>
<p>So for the statement to be false, the Church (or whoever) would need to prove that it is necessary for god to exist in all possible universes, which is a much harder proposition (though one that many religious people would still agree with).</p>
<p>So the third statement is indeed a fully-fledged statement. However, it&#8217;s also the one with the lowest burden of proof, so your general point is still valid.</p>
<p>&#8230;that said, do English religious ads say &#8220;There is a God,&#8221; though? If not, then this statement is indeed the only statement of fact being made, so Dawkins may still be required to go before the Modal Logic court and prove that !□(God exists), i.e. that it is not necessary that God exists&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: AnthonyC</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654758</link>
		<dc:creator>AnthonyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654758</guid>
		<description>How about, &quot;Even if there is a God, you&#039;re probably worshipping the wrong one&quot;?
Jehovah, Zeus, Odin, a professor God who expects empiricism and only lets atheists into heaven...

What makes one more likely than another? (S)He hasn&#039;t personally revealed anything to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about, &#8220;Even if there is a God, you&#8217;re probably worshipping the wrong one&#8221;?<br />
Jehovah, Zeus, Odin, a professor God who expects empiricism and only lets atheists into heaven&#8230;</p>
<p>What makes one more likely than another? (S)He hasn&#8217;t personally revealed anything to me.</p>
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		<title>By: failquail</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654601</link>
		<dc:creator>failquail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654601</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t understand this argument:
[Stephen Green of Christian Voice(UK) who said &quot;It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules.&quot;]
&quot;there is no god&quot; - Is a statement of fact
&quot;there is a god&quot; - Is a statement of fact (and also the religious position)
&quot;there is probably no god&quot; - Is NOT a statement of fact

So not only is his argument utterly wrong, he&#039;s effectively saying that religious adverts should be banned...
*facepalm*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t understand this argument:<br />
[Stephen Green of Christian Voice(UK) who said "It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules."]<br />
&#8220;there is no god&#8221; &#8211; Is a statement of fact<br />
&#8220;there is a god&#8221; &#8211; Is a statement of fact (and also the religious position)<br />
&#8220;there is probably no god&#8221; &#8211; Is NOT a statement of fact</p>
<p>So not only is his argument utterly wrong, he&#8217;s effectively saying that religious adverts should be banned&#8230;<br />
*facepalm*</p>
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		<title>By: Tynam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654594</link>
		<dc:creator>Tynam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654594</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure &quot;avoid promiscuous sex&quot; isn&#039;t an atheist or humanist principle.  (It may or may not be a good idea, but it&#039;s lacking in philosophical significance.)  And I&#039;m &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; sure that promiscuous baseball isn&#039;t involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure &#8220;avoid promiscuous sex&#8221; isn&#8217;t an atheist or humanist principle.  (It may or may not be a good idea, but it&#8217;s lacking in philosophical significance.)  And I&#8217;m <i>very</i> sure that promiscuous baseball isn&#8217;t involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Tynam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654586</link>
		<dc:creator>Tynam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654586</guid>
		<description>My objective is not to pay them back, but to inform them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My objective is not to pay them back, but to inform them.</p>
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		<title>By: drunkenpastor</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654559</link>
		<dc:creator>drunkenpastor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654559</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t send em&#039; any money right now. But I&#039;ll pray for em&#039;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t send em&#8217; any money right now. But I&#8217;ll pray for em&#8217;. </p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654534</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654534</guid>
		<description>If athiest coalitions were about something, as opposed to be about the absence of something, they would be more interesting. 

Of course then they wouldn&#039;t be a-thiests would they... They&#039;d be physicists or doctors or any of the other myriad professions that are about something...

Most those I&#039;ve met who self identify as athiests (as in I didn&#039;t have to ask, because they made it apparent) are about trolling christians and new agers. Secular Humanists I had hope for. But they seem caught in the same old trap, and their manifesto reads like a godless reaffirmation of the morality of the ten commandments, and the rights of the declaration of independence. Nothing new there. 

Whats there big idea? Play baseball, study hard, and avoid promiscuous sex. Fuck that. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If athiest coalitions were about something, as opposed to be about the absence of something, they would be more interesting. </p>
<p>Of course then they wouldn&#8217;t be a-thiests would they&#8230; They&#8217;d be physicists or doctors or any of the other myriad professions that are about something&#8230;</p>
<p>Most those I&#8217;ve met who self identify as athiests (as in I didn&#8217;t have to ask, because they made it apparent) are about trolling christians and new agers. Secular Humanists I had hope for. But they seem caught in the same old trap, and their manifesto reads like a godless reaffirmation of the morality of the ten commandments, and the rights of the declaration of independence. Nothing new there. </p>
<p>Whats there big idea? Play baseball, study hard, and avoid promiscuous sex. Fuck that. </p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Badger</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/13/buy-an-atheism-bus-ad-from-the.html#comment-1654525</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Badger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=212567#comment-1654525</guid>
		<description>The classic socialist song &quot;There&#039;s Pie in the Sky When You Die (that&#039;s a lie)&quot; rather more convincingly argues that religion is useful for the rich to control the poor because a worker keen on rewards in heaven won&#039;t ask for very much in this life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The classic socialist song &#8220;There&#8217;s Pie in the Sky When You Die (that&#8217;s a lie)&#8221; rather more convincingly argues that religion is useful for the rich to control the poor because a worker keen on rewards in heaven won&#8217;t ask for very much in this life.</p>
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